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Pumpkin Zone

Healthcare Reform Passed

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Jonny_Tightlips

 

I beg to differ, about regulation that is. The financial meltdown was caused by a systematic attempt to pursue home ownership and spending for the past two decades. The banks didn't really deregulate between Clinton and Bush, but the home ownership scheme continued aggressively. Every year Americans saved a certain portion of their money, until recently that is, Americans starting spending more then they had, which couldn't be blamed on deregulation.

 

And No Child Left Behind was an attempt to remedy the failing education system, it didn't work of course, but it was not the cause.

 

More on healthcare later.

Please look up the term subprime loan and edit your post.

 

The banks DID deregulate, by allowing any shmuck to come in and get a loan regardless of financial/credit history. Because of this, the majority of people with subprime loans were unable to pay them off (why would you get one if you had the ability to get a regular loan?).

 

And I think yes, Americans spending more than they have could be considered a form of deregulation since the credit card companies could impose regulations that determine whether or not you are financially capable of paying it off, but because they want to make money off your ass with interest, obviously they aren't trying to help you.

Edited by Zak.

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Mike Tequeli

 

The banks DID deregulate, by allowing any shmuck to come in and get a loan regardless of financial/credit history. Because of this, the majority of people with subprime loans were unable to pay them off (why would you get one if you had the ability to get a regular loan?).

 

And I think yes, Americans spending more than they have could be considered a form of deregulation since the credit card companies could impose regulations that determine whether or not you are financially capable of paying it off, but because they want to make money off your ass with interest, obviously they aren't trying to help you.

Allowing any schmuck to get loans was part of the scheme, people who shouldn't of had house got houses. Fannie and Freddie, two government run companies, were largely responsible for the collapse. The federal reserve pushed a policy of lending by keeping interest rates extremely low, courtesy Alan Greenspan. To reiterate, there was no major deregulatory steps between Clinton and Bush, yet Bush got the crisis. What was noticeable was the housing bubble, various Austrian economics followers (Peter Schiff for example) saw this coming. Regulation in general was not the problem, nor was deregulation, it was bad regulation, the government was directly attempting to drive the economy my encouraging debt and lending.

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illspirit

 

Yea, spending their money on expensive luxeries, but yet you trust them to keep jobs over here and keep cost down for healthcare. But money to spend? I'm sure last time they bough a private jet of their own. However I'm sure with the carrot dangling in front of you you too will be able to be that rich.

I just hope this pass the Senate.

I hope it passes too! It will be amusing to watch all the naive Obama supporters shriek in horror when they realize this isn't free health care, but instead they're being forced to buy from the companies their leaders have been telling them are evil. It will be even more fun when they announce that administration of the so-called "public option" is being contracted out to some big company who will hand out fat bonuses like the other quasi-government GSEs.

 

It will be downright hilarious to hear the cries of indignation from Obama supporters when their taxes get raised even though they're not "rich," and their wages decrease or they lose their jobs outright as businesses struggle to cope with ( or simply close up shop because of) the mandates and taxes.

 

Best of all will be watching the Federal government go bankrupt then collapse, dragging Fabian progressive fascism into the dustbin of history alongside it.

 

 

Speaking of which, public schools have gotten progressively worse as the Feds have increased their unconstitutional interference.

That can be basically blamed on Bush's bullsh*t 'No Child Left Behind' ideal. I don't even know if it's still in effect since Obama took office.

Ignoring the fact that it also sucked before Bush made it worse (and before Clinton made it worse and before Bush 41 made it worse, etc..), that was kind of my point. wink.gif Just think what, say, Jeb Bush or *shudder* Mitt Romney will do with the Pelosicare when they get elected in 3 or 7 years..

 

And, yes, it's still in effect, because the Democrats also support it. Remember, it was Ted Kennedy's bill.

 

 

Please look up the term subprime loan and edit your post.

Expanding on what Mike said above, Federal law (Community Reinvestment Act of 1977) required banks to make subprime loans as part of the Quixotic home-ownership-for-all crusade. The regulations were tightened under Clinton to put more pressure on banks to give out more loans to people who couldn't afford them. Groups like ACORN used these "deregulations" (rolleyes.gif) to pressure banks into giving out more subprime loans. For instance, see page 3 of this old ACORN pamphlet where they brag about getting banks to count "less traditional income sources such as food stamps" when giving out loans. They also sued banks into giving out these loans in cases such as Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 322 (N.D. Ill. 1995). Citibank, you may recognize as one of the institutions who recently got bailed out. Oh, and Obama was one of their lawyers in that case.

 

The lenders who didn't get a direct wack from the regulatory or activist stick had a Federally funded carrot waved in front of them in the form of Fannie and Freddie pretty much guaranteeing to buy their bad paper. Fannie and Freddie then rolled the bad paper into securities (in name only) and sold them to investment banks. While it was absolutely stupid for anyone to buy it, the Feds and the Fed were the ones who convinced everyone it was safe instead of treating it like the fraud it was and still is. But, then again, seeing as most of the big players were bailed out, well, umm, yea.

 

Where do you see deregulation in all this? I see bad regulation which forced the market to do stupid things, and I see regulatory capture where various interest groups lobbied the gov to write regulation to artificially tilt the playing field in their favor and/or bribed them for a bailout. None of this sounds like a free market, and none of it would have been possible without the Feds and the Fed manipulating things.

 

Also, one of the only intelligent things Bush ever tried to do was tighten the regulations on Fannie and Freddy. Tried, and failed, because the Democrats filibustered it.

Edited by illspirit

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Clem Fandango
You're a selfish ass GODK, Government mandated health care is consideration for the people like myself who cannot afford health care. I'm having a huge amount of problem with my shoulder which is extremely expensive when it comes down to treating it, and with the way HMOs and health insurance companies capitaliE on peoples health is absolutely disgusting, it's inhumane.

The entire system doesn't need to be f*cked up so you can cure your shoulder pain. The government or charities can give healthcare to those who can't afford without either covering everyone or forcing everyone to buy health care from the insurance companies they just spend months discrediting, and even considered prosecuting for speaking out.

 

And if anyone in this thread thinks the government is intent on taking care of you, or that the insurance companies will deliver a service to the best of their abilities despite being guaranteed your business, then get out now.

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buffalosoulj4h20

 

I hope it passes too! It will be amusing to watch all the naive Obama supporters shriek in horror when they realize this isn't free health care, but instead they're being forced to buy from the companies their leaders have been telling them are evil. It will be even more fun when they announce that administration of the so-called "public option" is being contracted out to some big company who will hand out fat bonuses like the other quasi-government GSEs.

 

It will be downright hilarious to hear the cries of indignation from Obama supporters when their taxes get raised even though they're not "rich," and their wages decrease or they lose their jobs outright as businesses struggle to cope with ( or simply close up shop because of) the mandates and taxes.

 

Best of all will be watching the Federal government go bankrupt then collapse, dragging Fabian progressive fascism into the dustbin of history alongside it.

 

Oh stop it you're just making me want it even more, tounge.gif .

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Clem Fandango
The banks DID deregulate, by allowing any shmuck to come in and get a loan regardless of financial/credit history. Because of this, the majority of people with subprime loans were unable to pay them off (why would you get one if you had the ability to get a regular loan?).

...because they were being subsidised by the government, they didn't have much to lose in the short run. What aren't you getting here?

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D- Ice

I'm lucky enough to have my health insurance paid by my relatives, which has risen through the f*cking roof so to cover me here in the UK as well.

 

I know this may seem horrendously stupid, but what will this new bill mean for me/my realtives and my health insurance?

 

Yes it's probably not the best place to ask here, but there are all sorts of differing and opposing opinions here which definately beats official government websites and politicised forums. I've been very busy recently with studies so haven't had time to watch my favorite shows - let alone follow the news. And it also may sound somewhat selfish, self-centred and ignorant just caring about what it will mean for me, but I have honestly given up on most politics now, as it's virtually all bullsh*t, for an increasingly apathetic and Laissez-faire standpoint.

Probably not for the best, but I got bigger things to worry about right now, so I'd really appreciate any insight to skim through when I have time.

TC

 

EDIT: Wait, is Obama's plan for national healthcare to force everyone to buy health insurance from the private companies?! notify.gif

Edited by D- Ice

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Ad Rem

 

EDIT: Wait, is Obama's plan for national healthcare to force everyone to buy health insurance from the private companies?! notify.gif

So it seems. I wonder how many people who are for the reform actually know what it means. I must confess I didn't. On the other hand, I'm not American, so it doesn't really affect me. Still, I'm definitely against it. For some reason a scenario where people who can't afford/don't want health insurance are forced into buying it or receiving a penalty fee or even jail doesn't seem like a very pleasant one. In a way this just seems like a way to raise money to pay off some of that national debt. Granted, in the grand scheme it won't be a very significant amount but regardless this seems like some type of extortion.

Edited by Ad Rem

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

 

I hope it passes too! It will be amusing to watch all the naive Obama supporters shriek in horror when they realize this isn't free health care, but instead they're being forced to buy from the companies their leaders have been telling them are evil. It will be even more fun when they announce that administration of the so-called "public option" is being contracted out to some big company who will hand out fat bonuses like the other quasi-government GSEs.

 

It will be downright hilarious to hear the cries of indignation from Obama supporters when their taxes get raised even though they're not "rich," and their wages decrease or they lose their jobs outright as businesses struggle to cope with ( or simply close up shop because of) the mandates and taxes.

 

Best of all will be watching the Federal government go bankrupt then collapse, dragging Fabian progressive fascism into the dustbin of history alongside it.

 

Oh stop it you're just making me want it even more, tounge.gif .

You could almost be fooled to believe buffalo IS Obama.

 

It's his plan all along! Don't you see? Obama thinks America is too damn big, so he's just cutting it down to size. No better way to do that than to make people believe it's for their own benefit! Better yet, more than half of this country is stupid enough to believe it.

 

So it's either buffalo thinks America is too big and wants to cut it down to size with loads of taxes and more corporatism (The corporatism and capitalism he claims to loathe), or he's stupid enough to actually believe this "change" is actually going to better America. (And by better, I mean cut it down to size) So which is it?

Edited by Jesus'En'Hitler420

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buffalosoulj4h20
I hope it passes too! It will be amusing to watch all the naive Obama supporters shriek in horror when they realize this isn't free health care, but instead they're being forced to buy from the companies their leaders have been telling them are evil. It will be even more fun when they announce that administration of the so-called "public option" is being contracted out to some big company who will hand out fat bonuses like the other quasi-government GSEs.

 

It will be downright hilarious to hear the cries of indignation from Obama supporters when their taxes get raised even though they're not "rich," and their wages decrease or they lose their jobs outright as businesses struggle to cope with ( or simply close up shop because of) the mandates and taxes.

 

Best of all will be watching the Federal government go bankrupt then collapse, dragging Fabian progressive fascism into the dustbin of history alongside it.

 

Oh stop it you're just making me want it even more, tounge.gif .

You could almost be fooled to believe buffalo IS Obama.

 

It's his plan all along! Don't you see? Obama thinks America is too damn big, so he's just cutting it down to size. No better way to do that than to make people believe it's for their own benefit! Better yet, more than half of this country is stupid enough to believe it.

 

So it's either buffalo thinks America is too big and wants to cut it down to size with loads of taxes and more corporatism (The corporatism and capitalism he claims to loathe), or he's stupid enough to actually believe this "change" is actually going to better America. (And by better, I mean cut it down to size) So which is it?

You forgot to put a question mark. ''I'm asking why Stan!''. You nuts do not know anything you are talking about.

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

Yes, avoid the question, avoid answering anything, and all will be okay. Forget reality, forget money, forget all the real world factors that crush your pathetic ideology.

 

Please, if you think you can stop with the nonsense one liners and hidden bigotry, post your plan on how you think you could get a federal system of healthcare to work for everyone, with all the bells and whistles like the current standard of care (Or even bettering it), R&D, faster service, and the like.

 

 

Edited by Jesus'En'Hitler420

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buffalosoulj4h20
Yes, avoid the question, avoid answering anything, and all will be okay. Forget reality, forget money, forget all the real world factors that crush your pathetic ideology.

 

Please, if you think you can stop with the nonsense one liners and hidden bigotry, post your plan on how you think you could get a federal system of healthcare to work for everyone, with all the bells and whistles like the current standard of care (Or even bettering it), R&D, faster service, and the like.

I didn't answer it because the question is as stupid as asking if Obama is the devil *looks at O'Reily*. The public option is my plan. It's not going to be subsidize like Medicare or Medicate. It's going to be paid with premuims. Which will lower the cost of those who cannot afford private insurance and tax the rich for up to 2-3% hopefully. As soon as you ask me a real question and you aactually do some research and stop acting like an idiot who only insults people you do not agree with maybe I might see you're more worth more than one line. What biotry am I hiding from? You tell me and I will address it.

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

 

Which will lower the cost of those who cannot afford private insurance and tax the rich for up to 2-3% hopefully.

 

LOL, because "the rich" are definitely going to take that without a fight, and I'll just quietly ignore the fact that taxes always get passed on to the little guy that you say it won't be. I think everyone has had enough of the identity politics for the rest of their lives.

 

Anyways, I'll respond to an earlier post. I said 20% of Americans don't even consider healthcare a reform an issue, I was wrong, I'll give you that. A poll of people that reside in Connecticut say 20% of us do not consider healthcare an important issue. We are fairly wealthy and we do good and can afford private insurance with relative ease.

 

But, you only cited polls about people that support a public option when the real question was still "How many Americans even consider healthcare an issue"? Well, I cite Rasmussen that only 65% of Americans consider Healthcare an issue. So lets do some math, 70% support a public option of 65% that consider healthcare an issue, so that would roughy mean only 45% of Americans support a public option. Good luck ramming that down 170 million of people's throats.

 

 

I know, I'm just making fun of ya. And I'm just waiting for the rest of the don't tread on me gang to show. Ya'll be good now. Good thing the world doesn't revolve around you crackpots.

 

Sorry, looks like a lot of the U.S.A does.

Edited by Jesus'En'Hitler420

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buffalosoulj4h20
Which will lower the cost of those who cannot afford private insurance and tax the rich for up to 2-3% hopefully.

 

LOL, because "the rich" are definitely going to take that without a fight, and I'll just quietly ignore the fact that taxes always get passed on to the little guy that you say it won't be. I think everyone has had enough of the identity politics for the rest of their lives.

 

Anyways, I'll respond to an earlier post. I said 20% of Americans don't even consider healthcare a reform an issue, I was wrong, I'll give you that. A poll of people that reside in Connecticut say 20% of us do not consider healthcare an important issue. We are fairly wealthy and we do good and can afford private insurance with relative ease.

 

But, you only cited polls about people that support a public option when the real question was still "How many Americans even consider healthcare an issue"? Well, I cite Rasmussen that only 65% of Americans consider Healthcare an issue. So lets do some math, 70% support a public option of 65% that consider healthcare an issue, so that would roughy mean only 45% of Americans support a public option. Good luck ramming that down 170 million of people's throats.

 

 

I know, I'm just making fun of ya. And I'm just waiting for the rest of the don't tread on me gang to show. Ya'll be good now. Good thing the world doesn't revolve around you crackpots.

 

Sorry, looks like a lot of the U.S.A does.

 

LOL, because "the rich" are definitely going to take that without a fight, and I'll just quietly ignore the fact that taxes always get passed on to the little guy that you say it won't be. I think everyone has had enough of the identity politics for the rest of their lives.

 

What aare they going to do? Buy off politicians? Oh wait.

 

 

Anyways, I'll respond to an earlier post. I said 20% of Americans don't even consider healthcare a reform an issue, I was wrong, I'll give you that. A poll of people that reside in Connecticut say 20% of us do not consider healthcare an important issue. We are fairly wealthy and we do good and can afford private insurance with relative ease.

 

A state, especially a rich state, like Connecticut does not represent the majority of other states and Americans. Ofcourse the rich isn't going to think healthcare in America is an issue, because they are rich! Why would a group of people who can afford things that majority of people cannot afford think is an issue or not?

 

 

But, you only cited polls about people that support a public option when the real question was still "How many Americans even consider healthcare an issue"? Well, I cite Rasmussen that only 65% of Americans consider Healthcare an issue. So lets do some math, 70% support a public option of 65% that consider healthcare an issue, so that would roughy mean only 45% of Americans support a public option. Good luck ramming that down 170 million of people's throats.

 

Holy sh*t, I can't believe this. Even in your poll 66% think it's important. There is no math, what the hell are you talking about? The only math here is that 66% is considered a majority. And where the hell did you get 170 million people disagreeing? Or 170 million people in general?

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Clem Fandango
What aare they going to do? Buy off politicians? Oh wait.

I'll tell you what: put a 70% tax on the rich, and see what happens to the price of goods.

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silvermanblue

The healthcare reform bill is a future epic failure. And I will explain why.

 

A person doesn't get any insurance, and he gets fined 1000 dollars.

He of course doesn't pay, which leads to two outcomes

 

1. he is put in jail to pay for his "crime" for 300 days. During his stay he gets meals, medical treatment, and living accommodations.

 

2. The government does nothing and the fine just sits there unpaid.

 

Both outcomes don't help the country or the individual.

 

Now if they want to help people who WANT insurance, then by all means do it. But leave us doctor haters alone. I pay full price for my doctors visits and my er vists. That should be an option imho.

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buffalosoulj4h20
What aare they going to do? Buy off politicians? Oh wait.

I'll tell you what: put a 70% tax on the rich, and see what happens to the price of goods.

But nobody is doing 70% increase tax so your agrumentment is invalid.

 

On the whole ''I wanna pay for my bills'' thing, tough day for you, people can't afford what you can afford.

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy

Well, this topic looks like it is in good hands.

 

Is it set up for failure?

 

Of course it is.

 

Is this intentional?

 

Yes.

 

Will it set the people up to agree to a continually dropping standard of living which they are coerced into believing that is what they deserve, in the name of improving the standard of living for some while it fails to do so to any equal or proper measure?

 

I don't really need to answer that, it is abundantly obvious that it will.

 

Will this all be used for yet another series of crisis and then crisis fueled "solutions" that are the real direction of agenda?

 

How long has it been since things were not like that?

 

Politics don't change all that much and neither do the means of manipulating a populace.

 

Fabian Fascism is definitely gaining speed yet it will not end there, although the oligarchy of elite control grids and technocrats and "science" zealots will be there to lead the way unto oblivion.

 

This health care benefit has some terrible things within it.

 

If you are already on any kind of government supported health care you are automatically enrolled. icon13.gif

 

What this does seems mundane at first until you discover a few other items that are with the bill.

 

The appeals process for decisions on your care and the ability to reject procedures that you do not agree with is also scrapped putting them in CHARGE of what happens to you instead of in a ready to assist position. icon13.gif

 

Lastly, the current bill removes any responsibility or liability for actions this plan will have on the members of the populace that it effects directly or indirectly and prevents the program or the government from being criminally charged for anything that happens to you....but only after it makes sure that you can not a choice it makes on your behalf without your ability to appeal the decision. icon13.gif

 

Go ahead mock it up. angry.gif

 

So, if later on someone else decides that Grams is getting to on in her years and needs to just die off and go without her medication or worse, then so it is," Good night Grams."

Edited by HolyGrenadeFrenzy

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buffalosoulj4h20

And the fear mongering proceeds.

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy
And the fear mongering proceeds.

Are you speaking to, or in regards to me?

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buffalosoulj4h20

 

And the fear mongering proceeds.

Are you speaking to, or in regards to me?

 

So, if later on someone else decides that Grams is getting to on in her years and needs to just die off and go without her medication or worse, then so it is," Good night Grams."

 

This type of scare tactic came for Palin. I thought we went through this already. Nobody is pulling the plug on your grandmother.

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy

 

And the fear mongering proceeds.

Are you speaking to, or in regards to me?

 

So, if later on someone else decides that Grams is getting to on in her years and needs to just die off and go without her medication or worse, then so it is," Good night Grams."

 

This type of scare tactic came for Palin. I thought we went through this already. Nobody is pulling the plug on your grandmother.

So you use the spoiler section of my post. lol.gif

 

Man, it is pretty clear cut the room for abuse in this bill.

 

Just wait, I'll go and go through this damn thing again and bring back the quotes of each and every part that is bad news for you.

 

Because a page by page account will still make it difficult I will go as far as I can to give you section and subsections, OK?

 

This thing is over 1,000 pages long.

 

The being except from Judicial Review is only the the icing on the cake of the things wrong with this bill.

 

H.R. 3962

Edited by HolyGrenadeFrenzy

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buffalosoulj4h20

Anytime you're ready. I have the PDF file.

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HolyGrenadeFrenzy
Anytime you're ready. I have the PDF file.

So, do I yet I am getting the Booted off the internet from the wife right now and will have to come back at a later time.

 

 

Be back soon.....

 

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Ari Gold

I don't live in America, but the only way I see for a decent health-care system is socialised/universal health care. What Obama doing is a small step, and it's good that he's being proactive in trying to change the system, but the fact that you are fined if you don't want to pay for health insurance is just retarded. I guess I should be fined $5,000 if when I buy a car I decide not to insure it. Same goes for when I buy a house or if I want life insurance.

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buffalosoulj4h20

The people who do not want healthcare are obviously people who can afford drugs and surgeries on their own. It's a tax, you don't pay the tax you go to jail. Nobody is going to rape and kill your family.

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Clem Fandango
I don't live in America, but the only way I see for a decent health-care system is socialised/universal health care. What Obama doing is a small step, and it's good that he's being proactive in trying to change the system, but the fact that you are fined if you don't want to pay for health insurance is just retarded. I guess I should be fined $5,000 if when I buy a car I decide not to insure it. Same goes for when I buy a house or if I want life insurance.

You are finned if you decide not to insure your car. dozingoff.gif

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Jesus'En'Hitler420
The people who do not want healthcare are obviously people who can afford drugs and surgeries on their own. It's a tax, you don't pay the tax you go to jail. Nobody is going to rape and kill your family.

Gross generalization. There are plenty of people that don't want socialized health insurance, I cite my own family as one that uses Medicaid and Social Security, which handle my mothers bills already. Guess how we got it? From that little thing called "working for a living." My Dad put 30 years into a company that eventually laid him off but the state was kind enough to use an existing program to help us out.

 

So, apparently if you work, you will get help, who would have thunk it?

 

Why don't we want a nationalized service? I ask you, what's the point of levying more taxes and police state tactics on hard working people that earn only $30,000 a year? What's the point of forcing people to pay more for something they will hardly ever use? Not much I'd say.

 

I work part time, 20 hours a week, I get $190 for it, and $50 of it is taken in Federal taxes. You are going to try and tell me that if the government is already willing to make me, a part time worker pay taxes, that they aren't going to make a full-time worker earning that $30,000 pay for this? Get a grip on reality, man. People are only assets to the U.S government, don't you get it?

 

This healthcare bill is a scam and is meant only to control and misappropriate resources for freeloaders who haven't worked a day in their lives and illegal immigrants that aren't willing to assimiliate by becoming citizens. But, you have "compassion" for all people, no matter how undeserving they are of it, so you'll just call me a racist.

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buffalosoulj4h20
The people who do not want healthcare are obviously people who can afford drugs and surgeries on their own. It's a tax, you don't pay the tax you go to jail. Nobody is going to rape and kill your family.

Gross generalization. There are plenty of people that don't want socialized health insurance, I cite my own family as one that uses Medicaid and Social Security, which handle my mothers bills already. Guess how we got it? From that little thing called "working for a living." My Dad put 30 years into a company that eventually laid him off but the state was kind enough to use an existing program to help us out.

 

So, apparently if you work, you will get help, who would have thunk it?

 

Why don't we want a nationalized service? I ask you, what's the point of levying more taxes and police state tactics on hard working people that earn only $30,000 a year? What's the point of forcing people to pay more for something they will hardly ever use? Not much I'd say.

 

I work part time, 20 hours a week, I get $190 for it, and $50 of it is taken in Federal taxes. You are going to try and tell me that if the government is already willing to make me, a part time worker pay taxes, that they aren't going to make a full-time worker earning that $30,000 pay for this? Get a grip on reality, man. People are only assets to the U.S government, don't you get it?

 

This healthcare bill is a scam and is meant only to control and misappropriate resources for freeloaders who haven't worked a day in their lives and illegal immigrants that aren't willing to assimiliate by becoming citizens. But, you have "compassion" for all people, no matter how undeserving they are of it, so you'll just call me a racist.

What about the people who aren't working in this economy? The ones who have to work in order to get their medicine? I'm glad that a government runned plan like Medicare is helping your family.

 

You're right. The people who don't have health insurance and like it are either rich or dumb. And you want to talk about the people only making $30,000 a year? Those are the people who are part of the majority in favor of the public option! You know, the ones who can't afford their medicine and private insurance? You're screaming ''big bad bully'' to government yet they are helping you with an expensive thing like Medicare. The public option will not be subsidized like Medicaid and Medicare. It will be paid with low premiums.

 

I'm wondering how you can scream ''big bad government'' when you're family is on Medicaid, a government runned insurance. And it's like a big deal that you work part-time, so? They took taxes out of mine too, for insurance and social security. People want a medal for paying taxes, when you're supposed to pay taxes for the greater good. To have bridges, public schools, sidewalks, etc. Imagine sidewallks being privatised. But it's for the good of coperalism, I mean capitalism right?

 

The healthcare bill isn't even in effect. It's the private companies that are scamming people by denying care and increasing prices. You say socialism. I say coperalism. You say government taking over, I say coperlists are taking over. Obviously, in the polls people aren't going to take it anymore. If this is a democrcy let the polls show that people want this bill to pass.

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Jesus'En'Hitler420

 

You're screaming ''big bad bully'' to government yet they are helping you with an expensive thing like Medicare. The public option will not be subsidized like Medicaid and Medicare. It will be paid with low premiums.

 

Yes, they are big bad bullies, my state is helping my family with our problems, but the FEDS are also looking to tear an industry completely off the map. These companies that circulate money, the thousands and thousands of people that work for the companies, have incredible implications on the fragile state of the current economy. A trillion-plus dollar industry now being handed to the no-profit generating government. We live in a society of profit, whether people like it or not, and if it is turned over to the government completely, things will not get better. We are hearing about state workers in California being handed I.O.U's, well lets just see how that will fly nationwide. The country is in debt at lowest estimations of $11 trillion, and now the government wants to spend an extra trillion to takeover the healthcare industry.

 

What does this debt mean? Failure. Maybe for a few weeks, things may be great under the new plan, provided they don't clampdown on it immediately, then thanks to the overload of "sick" people that now are of the belief that healthcare is free, you will see rationing of healthcare and denial of people for all sorts of things. All the fears we "kooks" have about taxation, rationing, "counseling" (A very nice way of putting "Maybe you should just take the pain meds instead of solving the root cause of your problem) legislation concerning peoples lifestyles, will in all likelyhood come true.

 

For all the bad in the current system, the government can make things better by implementing good regulation rather than the perverse money-thrown-away regulation that we have now. I like to cite this paper written by Joe Flower.. His paper on 15 Ways to Make Healthcare Cheaper by Making it Better is an absolutely great read and lists very simple solutions that could streamline care and bring down current costs, and even better is he cites references so we have good idea that he's not completely full of dogsh*t like TV pundits and appearances by "experts".

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