The Firearm Topic

[GTAfan786]

I know an Air Rifle isn't the same as a proper gun, but i have used one back in my parents home country when i was 9 years old and actually shot a bird down. And at that time, it was pretty heavy for me.

[lil weasel]

 

Like many other chemical substances, if you were unfortunate enough to eat too much of it, it would make you sick. As a side effect of this sickness, men would tend to lose interest in sex. But the idea that a pinch or two of potassium nitrate added into food by willing accomplices among the kitchen staff would induce impotence is pure fiction. In fact, it’s the literal opposite that’s true.

 

For centuries, saltpeter has been added to food because it’s a preservative. Before the invention of the refrigerator, kitchens routinely salted meat to keep it edible during the long winter months. Today, the traditional cans of corned beef still contain saltpeter — it has always been man’s friend when used in moderation. Saltpeter first emerged in China about 2,000 years ago. Early experiments saw Chinese chemists getting the best and the worst results, depending on your point of view.

[sivispacem]

Suppression’ devices: There was a 200$US tax on each and every transfer, plus fingerprint cards, and a Letter from the Police Chief to attest that the person buying the device was of suitable character. All this was transmitted to the IRS for approval, and upon receipt of the stamp the device could be delivered.

One use of them is to kill vermin (Fox, Rats, Bats, et cetera) in places where the Noise might affect livestock, Chicken houses, and Dairy Barns.

Except for Semi-Automatic Pistols of .45 Cal. and less velocity there is a Loud Bang even when Noise Suppressors are used. Breaking the Sound barrier is the problem.

9mm ammunition needs to be loaded to Sub-Sonic specifications (S&W used to make it). Revolvers can’t be suppressed (except for the Nagant M1895). The noise made by a properly suppressed weapon will be merely the mechanical parts moving if it is fired in a suitable location. From my experience with a .45 and a .22 pistol in a concrete walled & floored area the weapon still went BANG. In a carpeted room with overstuffed chairs/sofa it made the click/click/clack sound of just the metal parts moving.

 

Backfiring and Exploding are a very rare occurrence now that the Demascus twist barrels have been out of the market. Powder charges that are so low as to plug the barrel with the projectile or small gauge shotgun shell forced into a barrel and then loading a proper changed cartridge are a matter of personal safe handling as are double charging a cartridge case, and have little to do with the modern weapon construction.

There are various subsonic wildcat and non-wildcat rounds, though I'm not sure how available many of them are in the US. The 9x39mm is quite popular for quiet shooting in Europe and Scandinavia, which is basically a necked up 7.62x39mm loaded with an exceptionally heavy bullet. AFAIK the quietest weapons with integrated silencers (like the De Listle) are still ~80 db, which is about the same as an alarm clock.

[Saggy]

 

Suppression’ devices: There was a 200$US tax on each and every transfer, plus fingerprint cards, and a Letter from the Police Chief to attest that the person buying the device was of suitable character. All this was transmitted to the IRS for approval, and upon receipt of the stamp the device could be delivered.

One use of them is to kill vermin (Fox, Rats, Bats, et cetera)  in places where the Noise might affect livestock, Chicken houses, and Dairy Barns.

Except for Semi-Automatic Pistols of .45 Cal. and less velocity there is a Loud Bang even when Noise Suppressors are used. Breaking the Sound barrier is the problem.

9mm ammunition needs to be loaded to Sub-Sonic specifications (S&W used to make it). Revolvers can’t be suppressed (except for  the Nagant M1895). The noise made by a properly suppressed weapon will be merely the mechanical parts moving if it is fired in a suitable location. From my experience with a .45 and a .22 pistol in a concrete walled & floored area the weapon still went BANG. In a carpeted room with overstuffed chairs/sofa it made the click/click/clack sound of just the metal parts moving.

 

Backfiring and Exploding are a very rare occurrence now that the Demascus  twist barrels have been out of the market. Powder charges that are so low as to plug the barrel with the projectile or small gauge shotgun shell forced into a barrel and then loading a proper changed cartridge are a matter of personal safe handling   as are double charging a cartridge case, and have little to do with the modern weapon construction.

There are various subsonic wildcat and non-wildcat rounds, though I'm not sure how available many of them are in the US. The 9x39mm is quite popular for quiet shooting in Europe and Scandinavia, which is basically a necked up 7.62x39mm loaded with an exceptionally heavy bullet. AFAIK the quietest weapons with integrated silencers (like the De Listle) are still ~80 db, which is about the same as an alarm clock.

.22 LR comes in a lot of sub-sonic varieties too. Some of them with such little powder you don't even need a suppressor to get it down to ~90 dB levels. I'd use that for pesting pretty much all the animals lil weasel mentioned.

 

Gtafan786,

 

Air rifles come in a lot of varying power ranges. There are a lot of air rifles that are considered as deadly as normal firearms over in the UK. There are even some really ridiculous big-bore air rifles that fire slugs just as big as 9mm or .357 ones at 1000 fps velocities--they're capable of killing hogs and deer.

 

 

Also I can't believe how stupid that "FPSAmerica" guy was shooting the gun like that. You could even hear the concern from the camera man not wanting to get shot... Meanwhile all those bullets landed somewhere.

 

 

Oh and about how loud guns are... Imagine an M80 firecracker if you've ever heard one. That is pretty similar to a shotgun, rifle or large caliber handgun. The little black-cat firecrackers on the other hand, are what most other "small" rounds ( .22, .25, .32 ) sound like.

 

However I have a hearing impairment and so I did a lot of research into the subject of how loud even just a .22 is and whether you should wear ear protection, and long story short yes even with a .22 if you do not wear ear protection while shooting you will sustain some hearing loss. There's no "you might" about it. Shooting a .22 caliber, especially under rapid fire, produces decibel levels similar and higher to those found around industrial machining equipment, air craft, etc. where hearing protection is mandated by OSHA.

 

There are generations of people of course that grew up shooting firearms without hearing protection and they are not deaf, and they don't feel it's effected them much at all. However as Chunkyman pointed out with the "EEEEEEEE" sound, tinnitus is a pretty common after-effect of shooting. The real horrible thing about tinnitus though, is that it can also come back out of no where later in life, and basically "not go away", being triggered by loud noises, etc.

 

It's a pretty good idea to wear ear protection. I have to admit that I still sometimes don't want to or forget to bring ear plugs or something, but it's basically like riding a bicycle without a helmet...

Edited March 9, 2013 by SagaciousKJB

[Kaj.]

So I picked up my SKS on Saturday with my birthday cash. The rifle itself was $209.99 plus taxes (could have got a birch stock SKS for $189.99 but the laminate stocks look much nicer) and I bought the last 60 rounds of x39 the store had until later this month when they're getting some 150,000 of Romanian surplus. Gotta pick up a case of that when it comes in so I can feed this thing. Super easy clean up on this one, there was hardly any cosmoline on it. Apparently the birch stocks were absolutely covered in it.

 

Anyways here are some photos:

 

[GTASAddict]

Are black powder muskets considered "firearms"? Will gun control laws affect them?

[Chunkyman]

Are black powder muskets considered "firearms"? Will gun control laws affect them?

You can order most black powder stuff directly to your house without an FFL license. Most gun laws don't really affect them.

[crispypistonx8]

While this thread is still fresh, does anyone here have a mosin 91/30 ? If so id like to ask some questions about it.

[Saggy]

Are black powder muskets considered "firearms"? Will gun control laws affect them?

You can order most black powder stuff directly to your house without an FFL license. Most gun laws don't really affect them.

There's certain laws in certain states that prevent the sale of things like compound bows, black-powder guns and air rifles, but they're mostly stuff like prohibiting person's of a certain criminal background of possessing them. However since federal "firearm" regulations don't extend to non-firearms, there's no requirement for a background check before they're purchased the need of an FFL to ship across state lines or anything of that nature. So you can order anything from a big-bore air rifle that can kill pig or deer, to a black-powder gun or compound bow that will take down game as large as Elk. There are certain states that ban the import and sale of such items though, but I cannot think of them off the top of my head.

 

But yeah, any kind of projectile weapon in the U.S. that doesn't use a self-contained, combustion-based propellant isn't regulated as a "firearm" and is basically a big grey area of legality. This even extends all the way up to things like cannons, since that's basically just a big black-powder gun. Only real caveat there is local ordinances pertaining to the detonation of black-powder and things like that.

 

Kajun, that laminate stock looks great, I thought I was looking at real wood grain there.

 

 

Anyway, bit of a story here... I was putting away some stuff in the back of my car when I see my neighbor coming out with a .22. Looked like a Marlin 60 and sure enough when I turned around it was, and I said, "Oh I have one of those too." He tells me he just bought it for $120 and what a great deal it was...

 

I went over to examine it, and man I didn't have the heart to tell the guy he got took. First of all the previous owner tried to cut a hole in the stock to accomdate an external magazine, but then decided it wasn't possible and tried to cover it up. Then on top of that, they took off the front sight and instead welded a bead on, and if that wasn't enough the follower for the tube mag was broken so they advertised it as a "17 shot" instead of the 18 shots it actually is. Busted follower means the last round will never load...

 

I've seen similar ones in WAY better shape for $80-$90...

[LeVelocar]

Well regarding the right to bear automatic assault rifles, this f*cking idiot sure isn't helping his cause.

 

Skip to 00:30

 

 

 

Sure ain't hurting it either, since that isn't an automatic.

[Ziggy455]

I used to work for a small security firm. I was taught how to handle basic handheld firearms, preferably Glocks, however the biggest gun I've used is an Ak-47 but even then I barely used it. I much prefer pistols.

[GTASAddict]

Why is the M16 the "standard issue rifle" for the American military considering it has a tendency to jam & fires a miniscule round?

[Chunkyman]

Why is the M16 the "standard issue rifle" for the American military considering it has a tendency to jam & fires a miniscule round?

I would be happy to answer your question if it not for the fact I'm currently having an epileptic seizure because of your avatar.

[Triple Vacuum Seal]

Why is the M16 the "standard issue rifle" for the American military considering it has a tendency to jam & fires a miniscule round?

...because it's gotten more dependable over time. The troops are also no joke when it comes to properly caring for their arms so the occurrence is even rarer. The entire US military doesn't use the same rifle though. Marines use the M4. I too wonder what's in store for the future in terms of the US military's standard issue rifles. At one time in the past decade, the US military was looking at other rifles as candidates.

[lil weasel]

Why is the M16 the "standard issue rifle" for the American military considering it has a tendency to jam & fires a miniscule round?

The American teenager (draftee) of the time found the Standard M1 Garand rifle (and M14) too heavy to carry. So a new rifle was designed to be lighter to carry. Because few of the solders were members of the National Rifle Assn they couldn't hit a target, thus they 'sprayed' their shots and thus wasted tons of ammo. The ammo was also too large so they downsized the cartridge to fit more in an ammo can. The gun was too well made so they had to improve it and added a device to force the cartridges into dirty chambers to overcome the jamming.

For short distance city/jungle fighting the AK47 type was much better, but the U.S. has it's Pride.

[crispypistonx8]

 

(The American teenager (draftee) of the time found the Standard M1 Garand rifle (and M14) too heavy to carry)

          It's a shame composite plastics didn't exist then or arms development may have went a different direction.

 

(Because few of the solders could hit a target, thus they 'sprayed' their shots and thus wasted tons of ammo)

                     That's how they trained troops headed to Vietnam, half the time you couldn't see through the dense brush so you just sweep an clear.

 

(The ammo was also too large so they downsized the cartridge to fit more in an ammo can)

                                                   When you are trained to spray you need more chances to hit.

 

(The gun was too well made so they had to improve it and added a device to force the cartridges into dirty chambers to overcome the jamming)

          A feature that has become antiquated due in part to changing the 5.56 propellant to stick type powder.

 

(For short distance city/"jungle" fighting the AK47 type was much better)

                                                ^ jungle was the reason it was created.

 

but the U.S. has it's Pride.  Merica!

The real reason the m16 is the USA weapon of choice is because COLT offered the best bang for the buck when the government wanted a new toy, the m16 simply fit the cost/requirements at the time and has since been molded into what they are today. People bitch about reliability but In reality almost any firearm can be made to run in harsh environments just by changing the way you lube/cleaning/care for the weapon. However the M16 family is slightly more prone to failure through sand an water than comparable rifle, excluding guns that use H&K's piston system.

 

Don't believe ALL the the nonsense, modern M16A3/4 are perfectly capable weapon systems.

Edited March 14, 2013 by crispypistonx8

[sivispacem]

 

I used to work for a small security firm. I was taught how to handle basic handheld firearms, preferably Glocks, however the biggest gun I've used is an Ak-47 but even then I barely used it. I much prefer pistols.

Not in the UK, you damn well weren't. The only people allowed to carry sidearms in the UK legally are serving police officers and members of the armed forces. PMC employees are trained in their use, but not inside the UK's borders. The company I used to work for did all their firearms training in South Africa, for instance. And in the vast majority of cases, they only train people with considerable (10+ years) military experience.

Edited March 14, 2013 by sivispacem

[Ziggy455]

 

I used to work for a small security firm. I was taught how to handle basic handheld firearms, preferably Glocks, however the biggest gun I've used is an Ak-47 but even then I barely used it. I much prefer pistols.

Not in the UK, you damn well weren't. The only people allowed to carry sidearms in the UK legally are serving police officers and members of the armed forces. PMC employees are trained in their use, but not inside the UK's borders. The company I used to work for did all their firearms training in South Africa, for instance. And in the vast majority of cases, they only train people with considerable (10+ years) military experience.

Who said it was in the UK?

 

Work and training consisted of being taught at several establishments over a three-month course. It all came down to where you were and the possibility of training. It'd be silly to assume I could be taught in the UK as, like you have said, they're very tight with who they allow guns and training to.

[sivispacem]

I used to work for a small security firm. I was taught how to handle basic handheld firearms, preferably Glocks, however the biggest gun I've used is an Ak-47 but even then I barely used it. I much prefer pistols.

Not in the UK, you damn well weren't. The only people allowed to carry sidearms in the UK legally are serving police officers and members of the armed forces. PMC employees are trained in their use, but not inside the UK's borders. The company I used to work for did all their firearms training in South Africa, for instance. And in the vast majority of cases, they only train people with considerable (10+ years) military experience.

Who said it was in the UK?

 

Work and training consisted of being taught at several establishments over a three-month course. It all came down to where you were and the possibility of training. It'd be silly to assume I could be taught in the UK as, like you have said, they're very tight with who they allow guns and training to.

May I ask who you were working for? I don't know of any respectable armed security provider who hands out weapons or even weapon training to anyone with less than about ten years military experience.

[lil weasel]

 

May I ask who you were working for? I don't know of any respectable armed security provider who hands out weapons or even weapon training to anyone with less than about ten years military experience.

You really should get out in the world.

The [largest] International Security/Detective service I worked for gave two, four hour courses with pay. So not every institution seems to meet your personal standards.

Of course things change over the years

 

[edit]

Edited March 14, 2013 by lil weasel

[sivispacem]

The International Security/Detective service I worked for gave two, four hour courses with pay. So not every institution seems to meet your personal standards.

Of course things change over the years

Was this service operating in the UK, and providing the same service? If not, then shut up.

[Ziggy455]

 

I used to work for a small security firm. I was taught how to handle basic handheld firearms, preferably Glocks, however the biggest gun I've used is an Ak-47 but even then I barely used it. I much prefer pistols.

Not in the UK, you damn well weren't. The only people allowed to carry sidearms in the UK legally are serving police officers and members of the armed forces. PMC employees are trained in their use, but not inside the UK's borders. The company I used to work for did all their firearms training in South Africa, for instance. And in the vast majority of cases, they only train people with considerable (10+ years) military experience.

Who said it was in the UK?

 

Work and training consisted of being taught at several establishments over a three-month course. It all came down to where you were and the possibility of training. It'd be silly to assume I could be taught in the UK as, like you have said, they're very tight with who they allow guns and training to.

May I ask who you were working for? I don't know of any respectable armed security provider who hands out weapons or even weapon training to anyone with less than about ten years military experience.

 

Just a small business. It was a friend's firm - Obviously no names can be given. But I don't think it was exactly legal. Hence, I am not working for them anymore.

 

 

Was this service operating in the UK, and providing the same service? If not, then shut up.

 

Can you try and be a little more respectful, please? I lived in China for quite some time, and work out there is very different to work in the UK. Are you getting that from my title post nationality? There is a bigger world out than the United Kingdom, I would know, I've seen it.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Ziggy455

[sivispacem]

 

Just a small business. It was a friend's firm - Obviously no names can be given. But I don't think it was exactly legal. Hence, I am not working for them anymore.

How cryptic. Forgive my scepticism, it's just I worked in the private security industry for a number of years (or still do, depending on how you define security) and your initial post seemed completely at odds with my experiences of any of the merit-worthy, decent, upstanding UK-based/operating contractors who only hand out firearms to people who already possess years or decades worth of conflict-honed experience in the handing of firearms. I know it probably wasn't your intent, but what you've basically said is that there is a small private security company who are deliberately flouting various guidelines put in place in order to ensure that the operations of PMCs don't incur into what the UN would classify as illegal mercenary practices. By your own confession, whatever activities were happening here "weren't exactly legal", which I find even more suspicious. What reputable organisation would risk their professional credibility and quite possibly highly lucrative licenses with government organisations (as well as a place in the registry for armed security contractors) over tooling up some teenager because he's an associate of an employee? Seems questionable to me.

 

 

Can you try and be a little more respectful, please? I lived in China for quite some time, and work out there is very different to work in the UK. Are you getting that from my title post nationality? There is a bigger world out than the United Kingdom, I would know, I've seen it.

Was this comment aimed towards you? No, it wasn't. I think I've been perfectly respectful, if blunt, with you. Weasel deserved a hostile response because he was intentionally confrontational, as he so frequently is any time I voice my opinion on any subject he doesn't personally approve of. I'm fully aware how different business is around the world, having spend the best part of my working life disappearing off halfway round the globe working with a whole range of internationally renowned clients on all sorts of interesting and entertaining things.

[Ziggy455]

 

Just a small business. It was a friend's firm - Obviously no names can be given. But I don't think it was exactly legal. Hence, I am not working for them anymore.

How cryptic. Forgive my scepticism, it's just I worked in the private security industry for a number of years (or still do, depending on how you define security) and your initial post seemed completely at odds with my experiences of any of the merit-worthy, decent, upstanding UK-based/operating contractors who only hand out firearms to people who already possess years or decades worth of conflict-honed experience in the handing of firearms. I know it probably wasn't your intent, but what you've basically said is that there is a small private security company who are deliberately flouting various guidelines put in place in order to ensure that the operations of PMCs don't incur into what the UN would classify as illegal mercenary practices. By your own confession, whatever activities were happening here "weren't exactly legal", which I find even more suspicious. What reputable organisation would risk their professional credibility and quite possibly highly lucrative licenses with government organisations (as well as a place in the registry for armed security contractors) over tooling up some teenager because he's an associate of an employee? Seems questionable to me.

 

 

Can you try and be a little more respectful, please? I lived in China for quite some time, and work out there is very different to work in the UK. Are you getting that from my title post nationality? There is a bigger world out than the United Kingdom, I would know, I've seen it.

Was this comment aimed towards you? No, it wasn't. I think I've been perfectly respectful, if blunt, with you. Weasel deserved a hostile response because he was intentionally confrontational, as he so frequently is any time I voice my opinion on any subject he doesn't personally approve of. I'm fully aware how different business is around the world, having spend the best part of my working life disappearing off halfway round the globe working with a whole range of internationally renowned clients on all sorts of interesting and entertaining things.

First off, who said it was a 'reputable' organization? A teenager who's worked for a firm that's standards would be fit more for a mercenary-standard? Well, that's just any teen's dream, right? Wrong. One, the head of the firm was an associate, and a dear-friend. Considering the past we've had, it wasn't exactly a run-through of professional standards, but then again, where did I mention professionalism in my post? Of course the firm was flouting guidelines? The whole thing wasn't deemed to be a professional pursuit! Why do you think I don't do it anymore? In fact, it's been my dream to escape any sort of life like that. The job was barely a job, and as a result bad things happened. But I was still taught how to handle firearms.

 

I'm not asking for your belief, to be honest, a man that shows his bluntness and rashness so openly on a GTAForums site? And feels the need to be confrontational when his opinion is knocked, isn't obviously one to believe such skeptical ideals. I know what I have experienced, and you may doubt it, but personally, I really couldn't give any sort of f*ck whether or not your professional opinion on my ex-employment. Just like I wouldn't question yours.

[sivispacem]

First off, who said it was a 'reputable' organization? A teenager who's worked for a firm that's standards would be fit more for a mercenary-standard?

No-one, but the implication that there are organisations of that kind who engage in what amounts to commercial suicide by inappropriately arming people is worrying for someone who has previously worked with them very closely. Hence my interest in trying to identify who it was. I've had to deal with security organisations on a daily basis for the majority of my working life so forgive a) my scepticism as someone with significant experience of the industry, and b) my alarm given that I've frequently been in contact with organisations like this.

 

 

[crispypistonx8]

Sivis, always creating circle jerks.

 

Your an intelligent person so why are you having trouble with this?

Its not hard to imagine a illegitimate BUSINESS skirting law and regulations to retain funds and profit.

Edited March 15, 2013 by crispypistonx8

[Kevin...]

 

Sivis, always creating circle jerks.

 

Your an intelligent person so why are you having trouble with this?

Its not hard to imagine a illegitimate BUSINESS skirting law and regulations to retain funds and profit.

No...he is just right. Thing is, he has a point. When you work as close to the aforementioned organizations and security firms and are paid to know the ins and outs of everything, you tend to spot a bullsh*t story from a mile away. I would hate to throw the word "expert" out there but he is.

 

Oh and that cutting costs line is funny. This isn't your local diner cutting costs by hiring and underpaying an illegal immigrant or underage kid as a dishwasher. These are places which answer to higher authorities and are under a much bigger microscope of said authorities. Even more so when you are in a country that already damn near bans personal ownership of firearms.

 

EDIT: also totally forgot to say...you are also talking about a guy who is just asking "who was it you worked for" and nothing really more only to get responses that divert or dance around any actual answer. Not only has he not given an answer to the simple question, which is a sure-fire sign of bullsh*t, he has somewhat formulated/fabricated a grand story about how and why he got the job. So instead of the simple "I worked for _________." he is going to the trouble of giving every bit of "detail" he can about the unknown employer to make it seem more realistic.

Edited March 15, 2013 by κενιη

[crispypistonx8]

 

This isn't your local diner cutting costs by hiring and underpaying an illegal immigrant or underage kid as a dishwasher. These are places which answer to higher authorities and are under a much bigger microscope of said authorities. Even more so when you are in a country that already damn near bans personal ownership of firearms.

Slow down.

 

That's just it, zig's supposed experience was with a somewhat under the table company, Meaning he/they wouldn't have had the GOVERNMENT FUNDS AND OVERSIGHT that a comparable/well established security company would, enabling them more freedom to conduct themselves however they please. To believe any government is corruption free (witch is what would allow this to type of situation to arise) is dangerous.

 

No one in that line of work would openly divulge there involvement unless they had something to gain in other words he wouldn't be posting this for simple bragging rights, that's what this seem to be about.

. Sivis realized that an proceeded to pic on him?

 

An just to be clear I never endorsed zigs claim of personal involvement.

The way zig words his post about his experience with firearms leads me to believe he doesn't acutely have any.

Edited March 15, 2013 by crispypistonx8

[Ziggy455]

Well, you can believe what you choose to believe. I know what I've seen and done, I'm no professional either way. What makes you doubt my knowledge? Because I didn't tell you what Glocks I've used? Or how many safety features it has? Or the minimum and max capacity of magazines? When somebody goes 'Oh I totally used pistols and Aks.' I can understand you consider them to be moronic or you doubt their authenticity.

 

The firm I worked for was barely a firm, and it had no name. It was cash in hand work- And I'd consider it terrible work that isn't deemed worthy of professional standard as opposed to sivispacem, who is quite obviously a professional.

 

Also, bragging rights? What the f*ck do I have to brag about? I made a stupid decision and to be honest, yes, I've learnt a few things with certain firearms, but at what cost? Personally I only told you to explain WHY a young person like me has learnt a few basics. I didn't expect the third degree.

 

 

So instead of the simple "I worked for _________."

 

It was an illegal job? One doesn't tend to spill such details on a public forum?

 

 

Edited March 15, 2013 by Ziggy455

[GTASAddict]

2:50-4:06

 

How is a gun (M16) that jams frequently and is hard to field-strip better than a gun (AK-47) that scarcely jams and is easy to field-strip?