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Money Over Bullshit

The Possible Trinity

Recommended Posts

Money Over Bullshit

This is an interesting discussion you guys have got going. I think you could probably get a few more people involved if one of you were to create a new topic in the GTA V section. It would also probably create some new interest in the single player portion of the story since most of the discussion now seems to be based around GTA Online.

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Thelema93

This is an interesting discussion you guys have got going. I think you could probably get a few more people involved if one of you were to create a new topic in the GTA V section. It would also probably create some new interest in the single player portion of the story since most of the discussion now seems to be based around GTA Online.

will do

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Money Over Bullshit

 

This is an interesting discussion you guys have got going. I think you could probably get a few more people involved if one of you were to create a new topic in the GTA V section. It would also probably create some new interest in the single player portion of the story since most of the discussion now seems to be based around GTA Online.

will do

 

Be sure to post a link here and I will add it to the OP

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Mc_Marston

I just wanted to say I have played through GTA 4 quite a few times, but I've just stumbled across this thread and I'm enjoying following this order more than any of my other playthroughs. I know this has been said alot, but this is just phenomenal. Thanks for putting so much time into this so that me and so many others can enjoy the game even more.

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Weed_from_Field

Better than GTA V.

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Xing of Virtue

The Legendary Trinity..

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thomosmax

This thread is amazing. I like this all discussion.

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Mr Bellic I presume?

Hi all

 

Just registered purely for this thread! Been a while since I played GTA 4 and am now going through the Trinity for the first time. Great job folks and many thanks it is huge fun and almost like playing a new game.

 

Sweet!

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lilchris131

I'm not sure if this has been elaborated on before but I discovered something that kind of confirms the Elizabeta thing is a plot hole and can't be corrected... whether or not you delay Mallorie's call. I went as far as to check when Elizabeta changes her answering machine and it appears to be 12 game hours after completing Have a Heart... where she says "call me again in 25 years or so". In TLAD she is deleted from Johnny's phone after Shifting Weight but never changes her answering machine before this happens. So unfortunately this means Elizabeta is DEFINITELY arrested very shortly after Have a Heart as far as Niko's story goes. Once her message has changed the call from Mallorie will quickly come through to confirm her arrest. But even if you avoid that call it doesn't change the fact that her answering phone message is different between TLAD and IV!

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sneakyboi23334

I'm not sure if this has been elaborated on before but I discovered something that kind of confirms the Elizabeta thing is a plot hole and can't be corrected... whether or not you delay Mallorie's call. I went as far as to check when Elizabeta changes her answering machine and it appears to be 12 game hours after completing Have a Heart... where she says "call me again in 25 years or so". In TLAD she is deleted from Johnny's phone after Shifting Weight but never changes her answering machine before this happens. So unfortunately this means Elizabeta is DEFINITELY arrested very shortly after Have a Heart as far as Niko's story goes. Once her message has changed the call from Mallorie will quickly come through to confirm her arrest. But even if you avoid that call it doesn't change the fact that her answering phone message is different between TLAD and IV!

I guess Rockstar was serious when they created "The Impossible Trinity" achievement.

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Jimbatron

I don't think Elizabeta changing her answering machine message should be an indication she is arrested very soon afterwards. The "call me again in 25 years or so" may be more indicative of her increasing paranoia - she knows Jorge has tuned states evidence against her and assumes by this point she will be sent down - that doesn't mean she has already been nicked.

 

Mallorie's phone call is more of a problem in that respect, which if she's "doing a bid" is taken literally, she's inside by that point (although some people have questioned whether it should be interpreted literally) - nevertheless, it is possible to smash through Packie's missions before you get that call (required, since we know that "This sh*t's Cursed" happens shortly after "Three Leaf Clover" due to Billy Grey's appearance in "Chinese Takeout" - an afterthought inclusion by R* if you ask me, and also a plot oversight as it causes all the chronological challenges).

 

Of course, the other problem here is that Johnny's missions for Elizabeta "Heavy Toll", "Marta Full of Grace" and "Shifting Weight" must occur after "Have a Heart" for Niko. And if you are right about the answer phone message changing in 12 in game hours, it is highly unlikely you'll complete Packie's three missions in time in that window. Therefore if you want a chronologically consistent play-through, you should avoid calling Elizabeta thereby avoiding hearing her message change - or else you'd have to assume she changes it, changes it back, and then changes it again.

Edited by Jimbatron

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lilchris131

I tested it out by repeatedly calling Elizabeta after HAH and using pay n spray to advance time and it appears that it will change after 12 game hours exactly. And following that, the call from Mallorie will be open to come through. From this my conclusion is that Elizabeta changes her message just as the cops are about to arrest her and Mallorie probably witnesses the arrest and calls Niko. I believe Elizabeta stays in Niko's phone for the duration of Packie's missions and then will be deleted around the time he starts working for Ray.

 

In a world without TBoGT I would assume that within those 12 hours after HAH, Johnny has also finished his missions for Liz and made the optional call to her. She will be deleted from Johnny's phone after this - her answering machine never changes in TLAD.

 

Don't get me wrong though I think this thread is great and I like how people have done their best to fit the stories together as best as possible (despite the plot hole). Personally though I just play IV and TLAD together because the stories fit better and I'm not a big fan of TBoGT myself anyway, but that's just me.

Edited by lilchris131
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Jimbatron

Yeah agreed, there's a plot hole. As I said above, I think Billy Grey appearing in "Chinese Takeout" was an afterthought by R* to overlap the stories a bit more, and they didn't fully think through the ramifications.

 

While it's likely the game will try to give you an inconsistent phone call, another trick I've pulled in the past is to avoid taking the phone call from Mallorie after "Snow Storm" about Michelle being a cop/FED. That'll back her calls up a bit, if memory serves correctly (it was a couple of years ago since I tried doing all three stories in order) - so you'll need to take the Michelle call before you get the Elizabeta one. It feels less satisfying, of course simply not answering the phone is an option.

 

It's a bit of a Schrodinger's cat way to look at things, but from a casual perspective if you can get Packie's missions done before the phone call, there shouldn't be any on-screen evidence Elizabeta has been arrested (even though those of us in the know are well aware the game is trying to give us that message).

 

I must confess I can't remember the reasoning for the positioning on "Final Interview" for Francis, as it's open to complete before this - I'm guessing there's a radio news bulletin during TLAD about Tom Goldberg's death? Not suggesting MoB goes back and changes his list now as it works as it is in theory, but there may be a bit more flexibility as to where these are actually done.

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lilchris131

I think I've said this before but in regards to Chinese Takeout, instead of Billy Grey appearing I think it would have been better to have the triads mention a shootout with bikers which had already occurred, meaning the stories could still flow smoothly.

 

About the news stories, the only reason we hear about Niko's exploits in the DLC (those that don't relate to the other protagonist) is because they come in the same newsflash as something relevant to that particular DLC. For example, the cab depot burning down story comes in the same newsflash as Jason's death and can be heard about after "It's War", and Luis can hear about the "Entourage" mission because the convoy ambush story comes with the clubs closing down story. Same goes for Goldberg's murder because in IV it came with a story about a barroom shootout between triads and bikers which in TLAD was revealed to be the mission "This sh*t's Cursed".

 

I found that the placing of "Final Interview" can be a problem because I believe you have to leave the phone on to get a call from the Lawyers about the interview, and this can inadvertantly allow Mallorie to call you before completing Johnny's missions for Elizabeta.

Edited by lilchris131
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sneakyboi23334

@lilchris131 I'm just wondering, what tells that Final Interview Part I occurs before Chinese Takeout while Final Interview Part II occurs after Chinese Takeout? Is there any evidence on this?

Edited by The Lone Spirit

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lilchris131

@lilchris131 I'm just wondering, what tells that Final Interview Part I occurs before Chinese Takeout while Final Interview Part II occurs after Chinese Takeout? Is there any evidence on this?

 

The placing of Final Interview is due to the news stories that appear after it and This sh*t's Cursed, detailing Goldberg's death and the biker/triad shootout. Chinese Takeout happens just before these events so I think it makes sense that Final Interview Part 1 would come before that, since it takes time to set up the interview.

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sneakyboi23334

 

@lilchris131 I'm just wondering, what tells that Final Interview Part I occurs before Chinese Takeout while Final Interview Part II occurs after Chinese Takeout? Is there any evidence on this?

 

The placing of Final Interview is due to the news stories that appear after it and This sh*t's Cursed, detailing Goldberg's death and the biker/triad shootout. Chinese Takeout happens just before these events so I think it makes sense that Final Interview Part 1 would come before that, since it takes time to set up the interview.

 

I guess that makes sense...

What about Elizabeta missions for Johnny? It probably took Johnny like a week to do all those errands for Elizabeta, and did Niko not see Derrick for a week?

 

What makes even less sense is doing Playbox X and Dwayne's missions later, i thought they didn't have any affects on the scenario and were optional missions to achieve 100%.

 

Why isn't Stubbs' Dirty Laundry on the list? Knowing Me, Knowing You occurs before Niko gets Bryce's car.

Edited by The Lone Spirit

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lilchris131

Actually I agree that Derrick's first mission (Smackdown) should happen straight after Three Leaf Clover and before Final Interview IMO, because after TLC you get a news story saying the bridges between Alderney and Algonquin are opening soon and after Smackdown you get another one saying they opened up "that day"... something to be considered I think

 

Dwayne's missions and The Holland Play are indeed optional but Playboy's first two missions are required because Niko needs the camera phone (given to him in Photo Shoot) for certain missions in the game. They are delayed for so long because Roman's kidnapping has to occur a while after the bank heist and after Johnny's missions for Elizabeta.

 

Niko doesn't get Bryce's Infernus until after finishing Bernie's missions which are after Johnny finishes his story anyway, so it doesn't matter when you do the Dirty Laundry missions as long as it's before Bernie's last mission.

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sneakyboi23334

Actually I agree that Derrick's first mission (Smackdown) should happen straight after Three Leaf Clover and before Final Interview IMO, because after TLC you get a news story saying the bridges between Alderney and Algonquin are opening soon and after Smackdown you get another one saying they opened up "that day"... something to be considered I think

 

Dwayne's missions and The Holland Play are indeed optional but Playboy's first two missions are required because Niko needs the camera phone (given to him in Photo Shoot) for certain missions in the game. They are delayed for so long because Roman's kidnapping has to occur a while after the bank heist and after Johnny's missions for Elizabeta.

 

Niko doesn't get Bryce's Infernus until after finishing Bernie's missions which are after Johnny finishes his story anyway, so it doesn't matter when you do the Dirty Laundry missions as long as it's before Bernie's last mission.

Looks like Rockstar didn't pay much attention to chronology when writing the story of TBOGT.

 

Still though, what would be the difference between doing Playboy's missions earlier? Hostile Negotiation is unlocked by completing Have a Heart and Photo Shoot, the player can delay Mallorie's phone call until later. When does the Strip Club shootout article (after Undress to Kill) on LibertyTree appear on GTA TLaD and TBoGT? That could give some hint to when Niko did Dwayne's missions.

Edited by The Lone Spirit

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lilchris131

Another reason Playboy's missions are delayed is because the killing of the mafia union officials in Deconstruction for Beginners links in with a story arc in TBoGT (the missions Practice Swing and Bang Bang) where Rocco is having trouble with some union guys from the Messina family. While debatable because there is no hard evidence, there is a theory that Deconstruction should come after these missions because it ends the union trouble. See: http://gtaforums.com/topic/429472-liberty-city-connections-ii/

 

We never get to hear about any of Dwayne's missions in either TLAD or TBoGT so it is unclear when they happen in that respect.

Edited by lilchris131

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sneakyboi23334

I am just wondering, what would the "Possible Trinity" list look like if GTA IV was ignored?

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Jimbatron

^ I guess you'd just do it with only the red and the pink highlighted ones but in the same order, ignoring the white ones. The only real conflict is Billy Grey showing up in Chinese Takeout which causes continuity problems with the timing of Niko and Johnny's missions for Elizabeta - but I can't see any reason why the relative ordering of TLAD and TBOGT would change from what is shown here if you ignored IV altogether.

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lilchris131

There is already an EFLC only list: http://gtaforums.com/topic/430301-the-possible-trinity/page-14?do=findComment&comment=1060333355

 

Personally I prefer to ignore TBoGT as it's the weaker DLC in terms of story IMO and creates the obvious plot holes. It's worth looking at the old Best Of Both Worlds thread in fact to get an idea of a playthrough of GTA IV and TLAD together. I made my own list there which is the latest post: http://gtaforums.com/topic/401494-best-of-both-worlds/page-7

Edited by lilchris131

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lilchris131

Been playing IV and TLAD lately and noticed some Weazel News stories on the radio that can be heard in both stories.

 

I was on the way to do Bad Cop Drop after Buyer's Market and heard a story about the My Room Online social networking site which I definitely heard in IV before but much earlier on, possibly before Niko moves to Bohan in fact. Also heard about carpooling on the radio after Puerto Rican Connection which is definitely heard in TLAD at some point also (the line "Is your horse gay?! always sticks with me :lol: ).

 

I think sometimes it's a hit and miss as to whether these non-story related news reports are heard at all since there are no internet news articles to accompany them, it depends I think on how much time you spend in free roam sometimes. But they could possibly be used to nail down the list even more, as long as it doesn't contradict anything else of course and cause plot holes.

 

I will keep posted on when exactly these stories or any others are heard in each story.

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Jedipenny

Hey guys this topic has had my interest for quite some time now and I have finally got around to registering. I absolutely love this thread, so much so that I am in the middle of creating my own timeline of sorts. I focused on making sure the game was paced out while also not having to wait around for two or three days at a time to activate the next mission. The mission order is heavily inspired off of TheGreyGhosts timeline, which I will link below, and I used most of Veristyle's (sorry on the spelling) time of day and day of the week suggestions. Before finding this thread I toyed with the idea of playing the missions in a certain order or so, but I had no idea this many people would go into this much depth about this subject. I even bought the TLAD and TBoGT just so I could try out some of the timelines put on here.

Anyway, my timeline I focused on making as few days as possible where I am doing nothing, except for the weekends, where barely anything is going on so Niko can go out with Michelle/Kate and hang out with Roman and his other friends. I avoided hanging with people during the week, as I thought everybody would just be doing their own thing and would rather not go drinking on a Tuesday night. I also added side missions to my timeline, using TheGreyGhosts timeline as a guide for when to do the side missions. The only thing not included are the Brucie Races, Random Characters such as Jeff and Badman, and collectibles like the 50 pigeons or whatever. This is still a work in progress, but right now GTA IV is completed and being tested right now, and TLAD's timeline is being created right this minute. I'm posting soley so people can tell me of any issues about the timeline or anything that could be changed to make it better. It's on a Google Sheets and looks more like a calendar than a timeline lol. Thanks again everybody, and thank you MoneyOverBullsh*t for creating this thread.

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Jedipenny

Just an update, I have now completed my rough draft and I will be eating it for any issues very soon. While the Google Sheets is completed, it HAS NOT been play tested, so there may be minor errors.

*editing

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AlexGambino150

I think both Final Interview missions should come after Chinese Takeout and This sh*t's Cursed. I feel as if the shootout in TBOGT between Luis and the triads and the shootout in TLAD between Johnny, Jim and the triads happened in one night. (Yes, two shootouts in the same place in one night seems ridiculous but it makes the most sense)

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EtherTakeover

This would be amazing if Rockstar remasteres Gta 4 Complete Edition where you can play as Niko,Johnny,and Luis

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