The Possible Trinity

[Gtaultimatefanboy]

Guys this is the chronological order of the missions

case closed.

[Apex]

How can Heavy Toll take place after The Snow Storm when the coke you steal from the AoD convoy is the same coke you steal back from the Old Hospital?

 

http://gta.wikia.com/The_Snow_Storm

[simonp92]

How can Heavy Toll take place after The Snow Storm when the coke you steal from the AoD convoy is the same coke you steal back from the Old Hospital?

 

http://gta.wikia.com/The_Snow_Storm

 

GTA wikia is not proof though. We don't know if it's the same batch of coke, or an entirely different one . It's never really explained.

Also that article is wrong, as it states that the AoD are the sellers, when the mission itself is pretty clear, that the Spanish lords are selling the coke to the AoD. Who's to say the article isn't wrong about other things aswell?

Edited October 14, 2014 by simonp92

[Apex]

 

 

How can Heavy Toll take place after The Snow Storm when the coke you steal from the AoD convoy is the same coke you steal back from the Old Hospital?

 

http://gta.wikia.com/The_Snow_Storm

GTA wikia is not proof though. We don't know if it's the same batch of coke, or an entirely different one . It's never really explained.

Also that article is wrong, as it states that the AoD are the sellers, when the mission itself is pretty clear, that the Spanish lords are selling the coke to the AoD. Who's to say the article isn't wrong about other things aswell?

What about this video then?

 

I mean what other batch of coke could it be? Why would they put a mission in TLaD involving coke and Elizabeta and not have it tie in with the main GTA IV story? Seems pointless to me.

[simonp92]

 

 

How can Heavy Toll take place after The Snow Storm when the coke you steal from the AoD convoy is the same coke you steal back from the Old Hospital?

 

http://gta.wikia.com/The_Snow_Storm

GTA wikia is not proof though. We don't know if it's the same batch of coke, or an entirely different one . It's never really explained.

Also that article is wrong, as it states that the AoD are the sellers, when the mission itself is pretty clear, that the Spanish lords are selling the coke to the AoD. Who's to say the article isn't wrong about other things aswell?

What about this video then?

 

I mean what other batch of coke could it be? Why would they put a mission in TLaD involving coke and Elizabeta and not have it tie in with the main GTA IV story? Seems pointless to me.

 

 

It still can't 100% be proven, that it is the same batch, as it is never outright said, that Elizabetha stole it from the AoD. BTW that video also seems to think that the AoD where the ones who stole the Coke from Little Jacob, when it's painstaking clear that they where the buyers, seeing as one of the spanish lords is talking about the great quality of the coke. Only the seller would try to make the product sound great.

It could just as easily be another batch of coke entirely, Elizabetha is a major drugdealer afterall, she does have more than one thing going down at a time. Im not saying it's not the same batch, im merely saying it can't be proven or disproven.

 

That being said, this list of missions is, I wouldn't say wrong, but "forced" to make it fit cronologically. The OP, M_O_B, had the list perfectly down before the release of TBOGT, but because Billy shows up in Chinese Takeout, it screwed the whole list over, as Niko have to stop working for Elizabetha allot earlier than Johnny, eventhough we know from Mallorie, that Elizabetha got taken into custody, very shortly after the mission Have a Heart. Ultimately. R* screwed up the continuty, quite a bit by explaining, that Billy set up Johnny, before This sh*t's Cursed. This list is not perfect, but it's the best that can be done with what R* gave us to work with.

[Apex]

 

It still can't 100% be proven, that it is the same batch, as it is never outright said, that Elizabetha stole it from the AoD. BTW that video also seems to think that the AoD where the ones who stole the Coke from Little Jacob, when it's painstaking clear that they where the buyers, seeing as one of the spanish lords is talking about the great quality of the coke. Only the seller would try to make the product sound great.

It could just as easily be another batch of coke entirely, Elizabetha is a major drugdealer afterall, she does have more than one thing going down at a time. Im not saying it's not the same batch, im merely saying it can't be proven or disproven.

 

That being said, this list of missions is, I wouldn't say wrong, but "forced" to make it fit cronologically. The OP, M_O_B, had the list perfectly down before the release of TBOGT, but because Billy shows up in Chinese Takeout, it screwed the whole list over, as Niko have to stop working for Elizabetha allot earlier than Johnny, eventhough we know from Mallorie, that Elizabetha got taken into custody, very shortly after the mission Have a Heart. Ultimately. R* screwed up the continuty, quite a bit by explaining, that Billy set up Johnny, before This sh*t's Cursed. This list is not perfect, but it's the best that can be done with what R* gave us to work with.

 

I'm thinking it was the Spanish Lords who ripped her off and then the AoD went back to claim their coke. But yeah you're right, there's no way of knowing for sure. Btw I'm not trying to discredit M.O.B in anyway, this is an amazing thread and I can tell a lot of work went into it, I was just a bit confused after watching that video

Edited October 14, 2014 by Apex Predator

[Onett]

Man, I'm having fun using this guide, thanks for putting it together.

[HOW'S ANNIE?]

One thing that's allways got me about this list, and it's probably been bought up before, if the placement of Angels in America, No Love Lost and Logging On.

 

I personally would put Loggin On between the other two. Is there really any evidence set in stone saying that Jason was killed directly after that little conflict with the AOD? I mean he was wearing different clothes and riding a different bike, plus it lessens the unrealistic space between him dying and Billy telling the rest of the Alderney chapter. Sorry if it has been bought up before, but I just like to work around plot holes as much as possible.

[Onett]

One thing that's allways got me about this list, and it's probably been bought up before, if the placement of Angels in America, No Love Lost and Logging On.

 

I personally would put Loggin On between the other two. Is there really any evidence set in stone saying that Jason was killed directly after that little conflict with the AOD? I mean he was wearing different clothes and riding a different bike, plus it lessens the unrealistic space between him dying and Billy telling the rest of the Alderney chapter. Sorry if it has been bought up before, but I just like to work around plot holes as much as possible.

 

That does make sense.

[The Notorious MOB]

Guys this is the chronological order of the missions

case closed.

Is this playlist based on my order??

[The Notorious MOB]

 

I noticed that if you complete Brucie's first two missions (Search and Delete and Easy as Can Be) before moving to Bohan, Brucie will send you a text shortly after "Roman's Sorrow", saying that he's been in touch with Roman and wants him to come to his apartment (triggering Out of the Closet). Brucie will also call after this text to talk about Roman's gambling habit.

 

However I think if you complete "Easy as Can Be" after "Roman's Sorrow" Brucie won't text "Out of the Closet" will just appear on the map. "Out of the Closet part 1" is a prerequisite to "Puerto Rican Connection" because after "Blow your Cover" Roman is back in work and no longer hangs around with Brucie all the time.

Same with "Babysitting", if you complete "Smackdown" before completing "A Long Way to Fall" you won't get a phonecall from Derrick apologising for being Drunk, hence Niko wouldn't exactly knowing where to meet Derrick even though It's in the map.

 

I think the order should be rewritten, considering it makes more sense.

I don't see an issue with Liz's missions either, she said Jorge went states to avoid prison and she hires Adreas. And you get Elizabeta Torres' arrest news somtime after the first mission for the ULP which is quite faaar in the list anyway.

 

I think the order should be changed in a way, so you get texts and phonecalls so Niko can actually know where to go. That's far more realistic.

 

Now, I'm wondering about Lure, will you ever get a phonecall or a message or something to meet Francis?

 

I just want to make a point in relation to this. Although there are certain phonecalls which occur depending on which order the missions are done I think these should be veiwed purely as little easter eggs more than anything else since there are several other missions where a symbol simply appears on the map without Niko being told to go to specific place to meet his contact. With this in mind I noticed that there was quite a large gap between She's a Keeper and Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend essentially meaning that Gracie would remain kidnapped for a really long time. One of the causes for this was me breaking up the ULP missions based on a phonecall relating to Weekend at Florians - basically if you complete Portrait of a Killer before Weekend at Florians the UL Paper guy calls and tells you that he could have told you Bernie wasn't the man you were looking for. I've now decided to put those missions back together and shorten the time that Gracie is in the second safehouse by at least a couple of days.

 

Edit: I also rearranged the missions between Final Interview and Smack Down so that the way it works is you do a lot of Johnny missions one after another and then do his next two a few missions apart with Niko and Luis missions in between since not only does it make the gap betwwen Have a Heart and Shifting Weight even shorter it gives the impression of the civil war between Johnny and Brian's factions carrying on over maybe a couple of weeks which makes sense given that the conflict would hardly be considered a war if it only went on for a couple of days.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Money Over Bullshit

[cp1dell]

I wish there were hints in TLAD and TBoGT that would give you an idea on what choices Niko has made throughout the story.

 

Still my favorite topic on this forum, almost done with my Possible Trinity playthrough on the PC with ENB. It's been a blast.

[The Notorious MOB]

I wish there were hints in TLAD and TBoGT that would give you an idea on what choices Niko has made throughout the story.

 

Still my favorite topic on this forum, almost done with my Possible Trinity playthrough on the PC with ENB. It's been a blast.

GTA V somewhat suggests that Niko chose revenge and kept Francis alive. And one of Timur's possible lines of dialogue at the end of TBOGT suggests that Revenge was chosen aswell i.e. "now that Rascalov is dead we have sole claim to the junk" although it is possible that Derrick died at some point after GTA IV and Niko set up a life invader page in memory of Roman and kept his business going to support Mallorie. If we consider the fact that the news reports Kapowitz finding the diamonds (In Departure Time) after Niko's final mission though that would suggest that Bulgarin was already in possession of the heroin before Dimitri would be killed if Deal was chosen. We also have to consider that if Kate and Francis were dead then why would Packie stay away from home after Derrick's eventual death?? We know he's not the most caring person but he loved his mother, that much is evident.

 

The "true" outcome could have been a mix of both endings though i.e. Niko does the deal but when he finds out Dimitri betrayed him he goes down to the Platypus and kills him. Pegorino is pissed off and ends up killing Kate at the wedding which in turn pisses off Niko who kills him on Happiness Island. After Dimitri is killed Bulgarin's men take the Heroin and stash it at Firefly Island and then Luis destroys it. So in effect we don't actually get to play the full ending.

 

I think with GTA V its blatently obvious that Franklin chooses option C so the other two endings are purely just what if scenarios. A lot of people wanted to know what the canon choices in IV were though so I think Rockstar wanted to give us a few little hints these being:

• Packie confirming Derrick's death
• Roman appearing in the family section of Niko's LifeInvader page
• Franklin's cousin speaking about Roman's Cab Company still being in opperation in 2013
• Packie still being away from home after five years despite his mother potentially being left on her own after losing all but one of her children to death or incarceration (unless of course she died aswell).

At the same time they didn't want to take away people's free will so they avoided making any concrete references to what happened.

[HaythamKenway]

Maybe Packie doesn't want to go back, because he doesn't want to hurt his mother any more? Other people, her friends or more distant family could take care of her. Or maybe Gerry got out after all. It's unlikely Packie would give up his reckless lifestyle (and I believe he's well aware of that it'll eventually lead to his death) and I suppose that after watching his whole family completely crash around him, he'd in much worse shape, psychologically, than he was in 2008. It's a shame we never got much insight into his character in V, as he spends half the time just being a walking easter egg that brings up references to IV.

[The Notorious MOB]

Maybe Packie doesn't want to go back, because he doesn't want to hurt his mother any more? Other people, her friends or more distant family could take care of her. Or maybe Gerry got out after all. It's unlikely Packie would give up his reckless lifestyle (and I believe he's well aware of that it'll eventually lead to his death) and I suppose that after watching his whole family completely crash around him, he'd in much worse shape, psychologically, than he was in 2008. It's a shame we never got much insight into his character in V, as he spends half the time just being a walking easter egg that brings up references to IV.

You have to look at the situation from a human standpoint though.. if Packie's mother had just lost everyone close to her it would be far too selfish of him to stay away even if he wanted to, for whatever reason. He's a momma's boy its written all over him in GTA IV. He couldn't carry that amount of grief around with him.. he's already depressed in GTA IV so I think he would rather kill himself than willingly stay away from her. He also doesn't seem to have any regrets about leaving Liberty City during the events of GTA V so it all just doesn't seem right imo. My guess is that he left her with her successful Police Commissioner son to wipe her tears and ran away virtually guilt free. Anything is possible but from what we know from V certain outcomes are a lot more likely than others.

[cp1dell]

I always assumed Deal would be the canon ending, especially with Packie seen leaving in TBoGT's credits - and appearing in GTA V. I can't remember where, but Packie makes mention on how he can't ever leave LC or let anything happen to him, since he needs to watch Ma. If Kate were dead, Packie wouldn't be able to leave.

 

And about Timur mentioning Rascolov being dead, doesn't TBoGT's finale take place after IV's? So Deal or Revenge, Dimitri would be dead by then.

 

@HaythemKenway

If Gerry got out, Packie would have mentioned that in V. But instead, he talks about how he is the last McReary brother. If Gerry wasn't still locked up, Packie would have said otherwise.

 

@MoneyOverBullsh*t

I always found the Derrick conversation in V odd. Packie talks about how he's the last brother left, but doesn't mention Francis at all. He mentions that Derrick is dead, but nothing regarding his other brother.

Edited November 27, 2014 by cp1dell

[lilchris131]

In "Out of Commission" mission you can see what looks like a fireball over Firefly Island that is rumored to be Bulgarin's jet exploding. I believe this was added with a patch after TBoGT was released. I don't know whether this means Revenge is the true ending or not?

 

If it is true, that means "Departure Time" takes place at the same time at the same time as Niko's last mission whatever he chooses. But then that means Revenge is the true ending because Timur mentions Rascalov is dead.

 

You could argue that Deal ending is true and "Departure Time" takes place after it, but logically what Niko does at this point has no impact on the timing of Luis' story, if that makes sense.

 

But still, I can't recall if the "fireball" is just some dumb myth.

Edited November 28, 2014 by lilchris131

[The Notorious MOB]

In "Out of Commission" mission you can see what looks like a fireball over Firefly Island that is rumored to be Bulgarin's jet exploding. I believe this was added with a patch after TBoGT was released. I don't know whether this means Revenge is the true ending or not?

 

If it is true, that means "Departure Time" takes place at the same time at the same time as Niko's last mission whatever he chooses. But then that means Revenge is the true ending because Timur mentions Rascalov is dead.

 

You could argue that Deal ending is true and "Departure Time" takes place after it, but logically what Niko does at this point has no impact on the timing of Luis' story, if that makes sense.

 

But still, I can't recall if the "fireball" is just some dumb myth.

I believe you might be referring to an observation in this topic - http://gtaforums.com/topic/440200-small-explotion-at-the-end-of-gta-iv/

 

To be honest its really hard to say. People say its Niko's chopper but if it was then how did Jacob and Roman get out? Its interesting indeed.

[lilchris131]

 

From that image you can see some black smoke which appears to over Firefly Island. I watched the cutscene as well and you can kind of see it changing shape and enlarging, which would suggest it wasn't a cloud. It does seem quite small though for a major explosion!

 

EDIT: I watched some other recordings of the cutscene and sometimes it doesn't appear at all, so perhaps it is only present on a certain platform?

Edited November 28, 2014 by lilchris131

[The Notorious MOB]

 

From that image you can see some black smoke which appears to over Firefly Island. I watched the cutscene as well and you can kind of see it changing shape and enlarging, which would suggest it wasn't a cloud. It does seem quite small though for a major explosion!

 

EDIT: I watched some other recordings of the cutscene and sometimes it doesn't appear at all, so perhaps it is only present on a certain platform?

Its actually at a later part of the cutscene when Niko is talking to Roman. I think thats just the smoke from the oil refinery in Alderney.

[lilchris131]

Right. I've investigated and it appears to be Niko, Roman and Jacob's chopper which was on fire. It is in the exact right position and is the opposite direction from Firefly Island. Funnily enough this is what people in the other topic said. I think you can safely rule out this having anything to do with "Departure Time".

 

So I guess "Departure Time" is definitely the last mission of the trinity, whichever ending you choose.

Edited November 29, 2014 by lilchris131

[cp1dell]

I think thats just the smoke from the oil refinery in Alderney.

Yup, that's exactly what it is.

 

I've been part of one of these discussions. It's just a draw distance bug. The smoke stack things in Alderney that shoot out fire aren't rendering, but the emitter is. They're actually visible on the PC version, but you may or may not have to have a timecyc with an adjusted FarClip value.

 

But yeah, it's not from a helicopter or anything. It's the oil refinery things.

[RockStarNiko]

Hope this thread isn't dead

Q for anyone who might be viewing

What is the reasoning behind having Practice Swing before Deconstruction for Beginners (and so delaying doing the mission for so long, despite receiving a text from Playboy)?

I know the 2 missions mention Union officials etc but is there anything said or done in either mission or any related missions that 100% proves Practice Swing must be done first?

[lilchris131]

It's mostly to do with having "Photo Shoot" delayed so that "Hostile Negotiation" can be played later after "Roman's Holiday".

 

But another reason is because "Deconstruction for Beginners" ends the Union trouble seen in the missions "Practice Swing" and "Bang Bang" so it kind of goes hand in hand really.

 

In any case you are going to have to delay Playboy's missions long after the text, unless you want to play Deconstruction sooner and Photo Shoot later, and just assume it actually has nothing to do with the Union trouble in TBoGT.

Edited December 26, 2014 by lilchris131

[RockStarNiko]

It's mostly to do with having "Photo Shoot" delayed so that "Hostile Negotiation" can be played later after "Roman's Holiday".

 

But another reason is because "Deconstruction for Beginners" ends the Union trouble seen in the missions "Practice Swing" and "Bang Bang" so it kind of goes hand in hand really.

 

In any case you are going to have to delay Playboy's missions long after the text, unless you want to play Deconstruction sooner and Photo Shoot later, and just assume it actually has nothing to do with the Union trouble in TBoGT.

Personally I believe the best order to do the 5 Playboy and Dwayne missions is

Deconstruction for Beginners

Ruff Rider

X number of days gap (no texts or calls sending you to Playboy or Dwayne and so no urgency, other missions can be prioritized)

Photo Shoot

similar X number of days gap to above

Undress to Kill

The Holland Play

 

I assume the reason is linked to Union troubles, but I cannot find anything specific that confirms unequivocally that DfB "ends" the Union Trouble, only that is a part of the Union trouble sub plot

I even browsed through the game script uploaded by an avid GTA fan on gamefaqs

 

The Union Officials work for the Messinas, Rocco works for the Ancelottis and the guy they smash golf balls at reveals a Union Official to do with Transport Authority, this is correct?

 

An example of an event that confirms unequically that mission A must be done before/during/after mission B would be Three Leaf CLover and I Luv LC

 

I don't see the same concrete evidence with DfB and Practice Swing/Bang Bang

 

Only thing I can think of is that it is mentioned in a totally different mission

 

The walkthrough I am working on has Photo Shoot being done in a timeframe of between Blood Brothers and Museum Piece, this walkthrough is based on a method with rules of a sort (example texts take priority over calls and calls take priority over missions with no urgency).

Also the method results in Hostile Negotiation, Undertaker, I'll Take Her and couple of other missions being done between Meltdown and Museum Piece, giving the added bonus to the meaning or Ray's line "where you beeeeeen" or however he says it. It happened to work out that way though the method used and there is no "I will decide to leave that mission until I done that mission, the method decides the mission order"

 

I am still planning out the method but almost there (not really to do with mission order but with activities and side missions), once done I can playthrough and see how it all flows

 

Another reason DfB should be done before Three Leaf Clover is because DfB unlocks AK47 and TLC unlocks Carbine. Makes logical sense to unlock the more powerful weapon AFTER.

[lilchris131]

You could really argue things either way for DfB. Personally I too think it makes little sense ignoring Playboy for so long, but then the fact that Photo Shoot must be played later anyway goes hand in hand and suggests maybe it is all the same Union Trouble.

 

Interestingly though in Photo Shoot it does seem like Niko and Playboy are catching up like Niko asks "so how are you", as if they haven't seen one another in a few days or weeks and during that time Dwayne's row with Playboy has further escalated. So really it makes just as much sense keeping the missions together or splitting them up. I think MOB's list aims to keep mission groups together as much as possible which is why he chooses not to split up Playboy/Dwayne's set of missions if that makes sense.

 

If you are working on your own personal walkthrough you can always PM me... I'm always looking for different ways to do the trinity and your ideas interest me.

Edited December 27, 2014 by lilchris131

[RockStarNiko]

You could really argue things either way for DfB. Personally I too think it makes little sense ignoring Playboy for so long, but then the fact that Photo Shoot must be played later anyway goes hand in hand and suggests maybe it is all the same Union Trouble.

 

Interestingly though in Photo Shoot it does seem like Niko and Playboy are catching up like Niko asks "so how are you", as if they haven't seen one another in a few days or weeks and during that time Dwayne's row with Playboy has further escalated. So really it makes just as much sense keeping the missions together or splitting them up. I think MOB's list aims to keep mission groups together as much as possible which is why he chooses not to split up Playboy/Dwayne's set of missions if that makes sense.

 

If you are working on your own personal walkthrough you can always PM me... I'm always looking for different ways to do the trinity and your ideas interest me.

That is one of the reasons I like the X,D,X,D,X order for those 2 characters. As well as that, if you do Undress to Kill as 2nd to last mission it makes sense for X getting angry because he calls after UtK sounding angry leading to the Holland Play.

Another thing to consider is the safehouses. The order you unlock them would be Hove Beach - Bohan - Alderney - Penthouse - Playboy Penthouse (optional and last). So 3 rundown first and then 2 penthouses lastly. Dwayne is also the last friend you unlock, Dwayne has fewest activities to do and lowest amount of dialogue.

[The Notorious MOB]

Hope this thread isn't dead

Q for anyone who might be viewing

What is the reasoning behind having Practice Swing before Deconstruction for Beginners (and so delaying doing the mission for so long, despite receiving a text from Playboy)?

I know the 2 missions mention Union officials etc but is there anything said or done in either mission or any related missions that 100% proves Practice Swing must be done first?

Its not explicitly stated but it is employed. Both missions involve union troubles and the mafia. Its kind of like how I'll Take her is suggested to take place before Not So Fast but it is not explicitly stated. When Luis gets in trouble with the Ancelottis later in the game Yusuf tells him that these things have a way of working themselves out. This could simply be a reference to DFB but if there is no connection between the two then Rocco's mission strand just seems kind of pointless. Basically I tried to link missions together wherever I could in order to limit missions that had undefined boundaries as much as possible. I also tried to group similar missions.. most players will do Playboy and Dwayne's missions together so I put them together. There doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency in Playboy's text so I don't see why Niko would rush to work for him. Its one of those things where its a choice between working for somebody once and then not again for a long time or continuing to take jobs from them until there are no more left. You also get a phonecall from Playboy before The Holland Play in which Niko asks him about his deal with Yusuf, this suggests that DFB and THP take place close together.. I suppose it is a little subjective though.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Money Over Bullshit

[lilchris131]

MOB, this isn't really important, but I just thought, "Photo Shoot" unlocks the ULPC missions and "Hostile Negotiation" because Niko needs the camera phone. Interestingly you need to receive a photo in "A Long Way to Fall" in the same way as "Hostile Negotiation". I guess Rockstar just assumed you would naturally work for PBX before Ray and "forgot" to add the requisite? I remember this was discussed a while back and it was concluded that you don't necessarily need a camera phone to receive photos, but still that pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiation" is there.

 

Having said that, would it be an impossible trinity if:

 

"Photo Shoot" unlocked "A Long Way to Fall"

 

"Photo Shoot" didn't unlock "Hostile Negotiation", meaning it would always start after "Have a Heart"

 

Thank goodness! I doubt Rockstar did what they did with the DLC in mind, it's just really lucky that it worked out even though they messed up the chronology in other ways.

 

It's also a bit of a bummer having to do the ULPC missions so late, I think it would flow better if they happened just a few days after "The Snow Storm", like maybe at the same time he is working for Packie (which would happen in an average playthrough). Because of the Photo Shoot delay they have to happen while Niko is naturally further along in his story, but I guess there's no way around it.

Edited December 31, 2014 by lilchris131

[The Notorious MOB]

MOB, this isn't really important, but I just thought, "Photo Shoot" unlocks the ULPC missions and "Hostile Negotiation" because Niko needs the camera phone. Interestingly you need to receive a photo in "A Long Way to Fall" in the same way as "Hostile Negotiation". I guess Rockstar just assumed you would naturally work for PBX before Ray and "forgot" to add the requisite? I remember this was discussed a while back and it was concluded that you don't necessarily need a camera phone to receive photos, but still that pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiation" is there.

 

Having said that, would it be an impossible trinity if:

 

"Photo Shoot" unlocked "A Long Way to Fall"

 

"Photo Shoot" didn't unlock "Hostile Negotiation", meaning it would always start after "Have a Heart"

 

Thank goodness! I doubt Rockstar did what they did with the DLC in mind, it's just really lucky that it worked out even though they messed up the chronology in other ways.

 

It's also a bit of a bummer having to do the ULPC missions so late, I think it would flow better if they happened just a few days after "The Snow Storm", like maybe at the same time he is working for Packie (which would happen in an average playthrough). Because of the Photo Shoot delay they have to happen while Niko is naturally further along in his story, but I guess there's no way around it.

No it would actually be better in my view if Photo Shoot unlocked A Long Way To Fall since it would mean that you wouldn't need to do one mission for Ray Boccino and then wait a while to do the others. Roman's Holiday necessitates Hostile Negotiation taking place when it does though. Its like they tried really hard to make the Lost and Damned missions fit in with the ones in GTA IV and then made a mess of the ones in The Ballad. Basically Chinese Takeout should have been cut.. it adds nothing to the story and creates too many problems. It was already pretty obvious that Billy set Johnny up to be killed in This sh*t's Cursed so that makes it even more surplus to requirments. The bigger mystery was who beat Billy up.. I mean we can speculate that it was probably the triads but it just seems a bit random.