The Possible Trinity

[lilchris131]

 

Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

 

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh [email protected]*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.

 

 

As far as I know, you can do Dwayne's missions and The Holland Play whenever you like - I believe they are completely inconsequential to the rest of the plot. As we all know, it's Photo Shoot that's the big pre-requisite.

 

I did notice an error in the game yesterday. If you're not worried about playing consistently, it is possible to start JP's missions before you have met the ULPC guy. However he still emails you to tell you "the people you are consorting with in Alderney are fools and not to be trusted". Niko still replys back "where is the person I am looking for". Of course, with MOB's list this isn't a problem, but R* clearly missed adding a pre-requisite to that email being sent.

 

Again, they're assuming you will have long completed ULP's missions, and again most likely subconsciously. In contrast, "Portrait of a Killer" (along with JP's "Payback") is needed to unlock Gravelli's mission strand, rather than the last ULP mission simply being the pre-requisite. Perhaps they couldn't see a problem with the last two ULP missions being completed after the start of Gravelli's missions. Personally I think they can be done after "Entourage" but before "Dining Out" since that is when Gravelli announces that Darko Brevic is being delivered as they speak, so doing any ULP missions after this point is ridiculous.

 

In short what I'm trying to say is that there are many certain missions that are possible to complete after other certain missions even though it doesn't make alot of sense.

Edited August 14, 2012 by lilchris131

[lilchris131]

 

Here's the order I'm talking about.

Call and Collect

Liberty City Choppers

Harboring a Grudge

Waste Not Want Knots

Bad Cop Drop

Three Leaf Clover

I luv LC

Politics

Final Interview...

Coming Down

Practice Swing

...Final Interview

Holland Nights

Off Route

Lure

Chinese Takeout

This Sh*t's Cursed

Photo Shoot

Hit the Pipe

Ruff Rider

End of Chapter

Undress to Kill

Bad Standing

The Holland Play

Heavy Toll

The Snow Storm

Marta Full of Grace

Shifting Weight

Have a Heart

A Long Way to Fall

Diamonds in the Rough

Taking in the Trash

Roman's Holiday

Meltdown

*Johnny does random characters and gang wars*

Actions Speak Louder Then Words

I Need Your Clotches, Your Boots, and Your Motorcycle

Hostile Negotiation

Smackdown

Babysitting

Tunnel of Death

Museum Piece

Collector's Item

Blood Brothers

Undertaker

I'll Take Her

Was It Worth It?

No Way on the Subway

Weekend at Florian's

Get Lost

Late Checkout

that order is impossible to do

 

You cannot do Packie's missions before finishing Elizabeta's missions

 

The order I did the missions was this

 

Blow Your Cover

ALL Playboy and Dwayne missions

Puerto Rican Connection

ALL Francis missions

The Snow Storm

ALL ULPC missions

Have a Heart

 

As you can see I did 8 missions in between Call and Collect and Have a Heart as well as doing stunt jumps, pigeons, most wanted, races, friends and activities etc etc and saving frequently which progresses time by 6 hours

 

The time span was at least 2 weeks in game time, probably more

 

Packie NEVER called during all this time

 

As soon as I completed Have a Heart, Packie called a few seconds later

 

You cannot do Packie missions until completed Have a Heart

Are you sure you did all ULP missions before Have a Heart?

 

I did the same as you up until "The Snow Storm", then did "Wrong is Right" and "Portrait of a Killer", but after the latter the 'ULP' icon did not automatically reappear on the map to start "Dust Off". However, once I had completed "Have a Heart", ULP immediately became available again.

 

Here is a little mission tree I made showing what I mean:

 

[The Notorious MOB]

Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

 

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh [email protected]*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.

Phones without a camera can still recieve picture messages so there's no inconsistency that I can see.

[lilchris131]

 

Well, the weapon choice may seem illogical, but that's the way it has to be done for the three stories to line up (or else leave a very long time between "Deconstruction for Beginners" happens a very long time before "Photo Shoot").

 

I did notice a potential inconsistency the other day though. We know "A Long Way to Fall" must preceed "Photo Shoot". However, in "A Long Way to Fall", Ray still send you a picture message of Teddy's mate - but you haven't got the phone with the camera yet! I suppose maybe the old one can recieve pictures, just not take them? However, I always felt that "Photo Shoot" was a pre-requisite for "Hostile Negotiations" and the ULPC missions precisely because you needed to recieve pictures and needed the new phone. So why didn't R* make "A Long Way to Fall" the same? Unless they had a bit of an "oh [email protected]*! that'll stop the stories from lining up" moment? Because if "A Long Way to Fall" had to follow "Photo Shoot", it really would have been an Impossible Trinity.

Obviously R* didn't think to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for "A Long Way to Fall" because they assumed (probably subconsciously) that on a typical playthrough a player would complete "Photo Shoot" some time before the latter. "Hostile Negotiations" and "Wrong is Right", however, come much earlier if you get what I'm saying.

Phones without a camera can still recieve picture messages so there's no inconsistency that I can see.

I see what you mean, but I'm just saying that it's no coincidence that "Photo Shoot" is a pre-requisite for both "Wrong is Right" and "Hostile Negotiation" (and also "Ransom"), since both of these missions use the camera phone, even if it's just for receiving photos. "A Long Way to Fall" also has you receive a photo, but as I said, R* must have forgot to make "Photo Shoot" a pre-requisite for this mission since it would normally occur a bit later. But as you say, we can use the fact that phones without a camera can still receive photos as evidence that there is no inconsistency.

[RockStarNiko]

I am thinking of playing through GTA IV again whilst we all wait for GTA V

 

Today I been looking over the walkthroughs and missions trees etc because I want to see if there is some logical order within the actual game

1. I think it makes sense to give priority to texts over answering phone calls.

2. I think it makes sense to answer a phone call and do some urgent mission, rather than do a mission where there is no urgency.

3. It makes more sense to go back and forth between mission bosses when you have the opportunity, to allow a bit of time to pass between each mission for the same boss.

 

Blow Your Cover

After this you unlock PRC and get a text from Playboy that opens DFB.

The text does not come straight away and also we have just been with Playboy, so go sleep mode and do PRC.

Puerto Rican Connection

After this we will be getting 2 texts, one from Playboy, one from unknown and also a call from Elizabeta.

Avoid the call for now.

Playboy is the text to answer first.

Deconstruction for Beginners

After this we have the text, the E call and now another call.

Still avoid the calls for now.

Unknown text will open up Francis missions

Call and Collect

Now we have Final Interview 1, plus 2 calls waiting to be answered. Calls are priority. Elizabeta is priority over Playboy cos she been calling longer.

The Snow Storm......

 

I am going to play through the game using this method and see what kind of mission order I end up with, I think it will result in a fairly consistent mission order, because the game itself is telling me to go there and do this for them etc.

 

 

 

 

Avoiding phone calls is very helpful throughout the game. It also does not break any rules of realism because many times we do not answer a call cos we busy.

At certain points of you avoid a phone call for a few missions, you will not get a call from a friend pestering you, because they are occupied and unavailable, this is good.

Using sleep mode and you wont even receive the call in the first place. If you out of sleep mode to get a text, just ignore the call when it rings. Read text and go into sleep mode.

Edited August 30, 2012 by RockStarNiko

[SARDYNA108]

I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:

 

The differences betwen each are quite interesting

[lilchris131]

 

I just been looking through mission list of BOGT and I think the timeline was totally screwed up by this DLC

 

eg Not So Fast is a Luis mission that takes place at the same time as Museum Piece right?

 

but not so fast unlocks Ladies Night and this mission involves Gracie already being held for ransom

 

now that is just ridiculous because the timeframe between those 2 events is a hell of a lot longer than 1 mission or an overnight sleep

 

its basically making you do ALL gerry missions ALL derrick missions ALL francis mission including blood brothers and then undertaker and then finally get the call from gerry inside prison

 

all this is supposed to be done BEFORE musem piece?!?!?

 

it gets better though

 

when for someone unknown reason you ignore ray missions for so long you must then ignore gerry for days and do all rays missions before doing the final crossover diamonds are girls best friend and ladies half price LOL

 

also if you kidnap gracie in ill take her and do this before museum piece, you then have to do all rays missions including late checkout to unlock ransom, why would it take so long for packie to call and say oh btw they dont believe we got the bitch you need go and take a photo

 

BOGT is the reason the timeline makes no sense and forces everyone to try and shift all these missions around

 

best thing to do is simply treat BOGT as an alternative universe DLC

 

just do GTA IV and TLATD together, thats what I will do

Couldn't agree more. For those interested in playing IV and TLAD without TBoGT (including myself), I don't see a problem with working on an alternative list, considering that some have done lists for TLAD and TBoGT without IV to avoid disc swapping, etc.

 

The only issue with TLAD is that "Roman's Holiday" and "Diamonds in the Rough" are set up literally at the same time. Forgetting TBoGT completely, Johnny and Niko's stories flow great up to this point, with them doing Liz's missions simultaneously and then unlocking the kidnapping scenario. However, then Johnny has to steal the diamonds for Ray straight after, while Niko has all of Packie's missions to go before he can unlock Ray's strand.

 

Rockstar could have thought things through better and had the missions available in this order:

 

Hit the Pipe

Heavy Toll

Marta Full of Grace

Shifting Weight

Roman's Holiday

End of Chapter

Bad Standing

Diamonds in the Rough

 

That way both Niko and Johnny could unlock the kidnapping scenario after Elizabeta's strand. Then Niko does Packie's missions including the bank robbery while Johnny deals with Brian and his faction. Then Ray's missions for both protagonists can happen simultaneously.

 

But obviously, this isn't possible.

[The Notorious MOB]

 

I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:

 

The differences betwen each are quite interesting 

Great video man

 

It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.

 

I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.

 

@lilchris131: Yeah it's funny how such a little change in how and when the missions become available could make things flow so much better.

 

Not sure wether you've seen this list I created before TBOGT came out, if not you should check it out. The differences are evident.

 

Also after looking back over the topic and considering the whole prison phone call thing I'm gonna move Francis McReary's mission "Call and Collect" and Elizabeta's mission "Shifting Weight" up a bit on the list so that the gap between the missions for Elizabeta in GTA IV and TLAD are as close together as possible to make it so that it's possible to do the missions between "Have a Heart" and "Shifting Weight" in IV without having to cancel Mallorie's call more than once or twice. It's a small change but it makes a lot of difference I think. It still might help if you turn off Niko's phone after doing "Smackdown" though.

Edited September 11, 2012 by Money Over Bullshit

[SARDYNA108]

I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:

 

The differences betwen each are quite interesting 

Great video man

 

It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.

 

I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.

Thanks I wish my PC would be a bit more powerful so I hadnt that missing textures in this scene and a bit bigger fps, inside interiors scenes were recorded at 30 fps but outside only about 13. What you mean one frame for all scenarios?

[The Notorious MOB]

I made a video comparision showing missions where Niko, Johny and Luis meet each other including all events and point of views:

 

The differences betwen each are quite interesting 

Great video man

 

It's really good how you got the TLAD credits to line up perfectly so that the last cop car pulls up in the TLC scene in the credits just after the shots of the police shutting down the area from IV.

 

I'd love to see a video with some proper movie style editing that uses only one frame for all of the scenarios although this would take a lot of effort and planning to pull off correctly.

Thanks I wish my PC would be a bit more powerful so I hadnt that missing textures in this scene and a bit bigger fps, inside interiors scenes were recorded at 30 fps but outside only about 13. What you mean one frame for all scenarios?

The way you have the different Points of View split into two and sometimes three different frames. I'd like to see the various shots edited so it's just one neutral view of all of the different events. In some cases (such as Frosting on the Cake and Buyer's Market) the most up to date DLC representations are best and their cutscenes could be included in there entirety, especially since they are so close to the original scenes from IV (as demonstrated so well in your video) but with missions such The Museum and the Diamond/Gracie exchange it would be necessary to switch between the two different perspectives in order to show everything that's going on.

 

Out of all the scenes the Museum I feel would be the most difficult however since the different versions represent very much what each individual character is seeing at that time i.e the shots of Mori and Isaac are closer in Niko's version because Niko is closer to them during the handover etc. I guess the cutscene portion could be done using just the cutscenes from TLAD and TBOGT but if gameplay were included then after Luis's POV ends the characters three seperate paths would have to be shown in a way that shows them happening at once. In that instance I actually think that having three seperate frames would be the best way to go but have it so there is no empty space on the screen.. perhaps have Luis's POV be twice the width of Niko and Johnny's frames (since it goes on for longer) and sit on top of them in a triangle formation.

[lilchris131]

Whatever happened to Magic Al's mission tree? I used to be able to download it but now I get an error.

[The Notorious MOB]

I think it has to be reuploaded by him every so often and he probably hasn't realised that the link has expired. I think if he does upload it again somebody should save it so they can reupload it if it goes down again to take the burden off him.

[.dre.]

Definitely doing this when I reach GTAIV on my 100% completion list. Great job.

[sakalu]

I agree with Magic_Al about Three Leaf Clover being placed before I Luv LC on any sort of list that is made, it just seems to make more sense to me.

[Linki]

Rockstar might have noticed this thread, judging from the bold new direction that's happening with GTA.

[Magic_Al]

Whatever happened to Magic Al's mission tree? I used to be able to download it but now I get an error.

It was hosted on MobileMe which I had for free via my work. The new iCloud replacement doesn't have file hosting. What should I use now?

[GTA Phreak]

Although it isn't a mod, you could try here: http://www.gtagarage.com/mods/browse.php?C=53

 

I found the original so useful that I still have a copy saved.

[AdvanceTrak RSC]

I guess it makes sense good work looks like it prolly took some time thanks

[Corndawg93]

So I found this on GTA Wiki

 

 

In the pre-mission cutscene Ray tells Johnny that he "knows about some diamonds" that are being bought "by wiseguys, from wiseguys, for wiseguys" (pointing to himself). Judging by this dialogue it can be assumed that Rocco planned to have Tony and Luis buy the diamonds from the cook so that he could sell them to Ray at a profit, Ray however plans to rip him off instead and take the diamonds for himself in order to sell them Mori and Isaac at a later time.

 

Can anyone make Sence of this

[The Notorious MOB]

So I found this on GTA Wiki

 

 

In the pre-mission cutscene Ray tells Johnny that he "knows about some diamonds" that are being bought "by wiseguys, from wiseguys, for wiseguys" (pointing to himself). Judging by this dialogue it can be assumed that Rocco planned to have Tony and Luis buy the diamonds from the cook so that he could sell them to Ray at a profit, Ray however plans to rip him off instead and take the diamonds for himself in order to sell them Mori and Isaac at a later time.

 

Can anyone make Sence of this

Yeah it means that Rocco told Ray that he was buying some diamonds from the cook at the Platypus that he would then sell to Ray but Ray just decided "f*ck that, I'm just gonna just get Johnny to steal the diamonds and not be out of pocket". I don't know how true it is though.. it seems to be just speculation.

[fp35wj0]

Thanks for that list

[The Notorious MOB]

Thanks for that list

You're welcome

[Magic_Al]

OK we'll see how this goes. Integrated Mission Tree rehosted at Google.

[amandadgdfg]

Edited. Edited December 7, 2012 by Seddo

[Corndawg93]

Wrong place you retarded Troll

[richard1997jones]

I prefer three seprate games, why? because I lose intrest playing long games especially IV however gta SA wasn't boring and gta v better be that way too otherwise I will be really upset

[richard1997jones]

OK we'll see how this goes. Integrated Mission Tree rehosted at Google.

Nice I'd like this to be like in gta SA where carl goes to liberty city frrom SA, that kind of mapping would probably be too big for memory but why don't they use IV and V together puting red dead in would be stupid cos it's old at least those two go together in time.

[richard1997jones]

 

Edited.

 

f*ck off I hate spammers they are everywhere.

 

*Please do not quote spamposts and also use the edit button instead of triple posting. Thanks.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Seddo

[Darth_Starkiller]

Hm... in the list, Three Leaf Clover is placed before Deconstrcution for Beginners, however, it's obvious that it's not how it's intended by R*, as DFB gives you the AK-47, considered a lesser weapon, and TLC gives you the M4.

[Dr. Robotnik]

Regarding the chapter-based timeline, unless it's a mistake, "Dust Off" and "Paper Trail" can only be played after "Wrong is Right" and "Portrait of a Killer".