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Money Over Bullshit

The Possible Trinity

Recommended Posts

darrellmonks

Would it make sense to pin this in TLAD and IV forums?

 

Anyway thanks alot for this. I cant think of a single game with a story as good as GTA IV the complete collection and playing it in this order just adds to the experience, let alone chilling with Roman, Packie, Jacob, Dwayne, Henriqie and that other twat and the Lost MC. Great game, cant imagine how good the next full installment will be.

 

Edit: i just noticed something big. http://gta.wikia.com/Knowing_Me,_Knowing_You check that out its only a side mission but canon wise it must take place around the same time bernie gives Niko the infernus. Im going to research more on it, i think you should put johnnys side missions in the list.

 

Edit: http://gta.wikia.com/Stubbs'_Dirty_Laundry After some research you should just note all of Stubbs dirty laundry side missions should be completed before bernie gives Niko the infernus.

Edited by darrellmonks

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ElementL09

Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission. I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

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Magic_Al
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission. I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

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chapapote

Mmm, I don't see that order as the true one. MOB tried his best, and as everyone can see, the result is the best we can get according to what Rockstar gave us, but things like the Have a Heart/Chinese Takeout problem and Ashley giving you missions in two different places at the same time damage its credibility.

Anyway, I still like how this list tries to give an order to the missions to make the game a bit more realistic, trying to establish the order in which the characters would actually do the missions. Do you think a similar topic could be done with, for example, San Andreas?

Edited by chapapote

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Staten
Do you think a similar topic could be done with, for example, San Andreas?

Probably, though there would be less to gain, since the main point about the Possible Trinity is to see the three stories intersect, though it's clear that R* didn't have the full story planned. That's understandable - it would mean having to design all the missions for the Episodes before the release of IV itself, along with the scripts and the art design.

 

 

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Magic_Al

 

Mmm, I don't see that order as the true one. MOB tried his best, and as everyone can see, the result is the best we can get according to what Rockstar gave us, but things like the Have a Heart/Chinese Takeout problem and Ashley giving you missions in two different places at the same time damage its credibility.

Anyway, I still like how this list tries to give an order to the missions to make the game a bit more realistic, trying to establish the order in which the characters would actually do the missions. Do you think a similar topic could be done with, for example, San Andreas?

It's not about saying there's one correct order for every mission, it's about making it easy to experience all three stories without chronological conflicts. GTA is designed to be a non-linear experience. The ideal Possible Trinity would be a mod or an update from Rockstar that adds a combined single-player mode where you could go to the map screen and scroll through each character to see what missions are available to choose from, with overall progress controlled by prerequisites so you can't get out of order. Without that, a list is the simplest way to experience the combined story, because manually following a combined mission tree is very complicated. The downside of a list is losing the sense of freedom to choose what to do next, and there is actually still a lot of non-linear freedom in the actual combined mission tree, it's just hard to make it easy to follow.

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ElementL09

 

Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

 

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

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Magic_Al

 

Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

 

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Edited by Magic_Al

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Money Over Bullshit
Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

 

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Good answer but that's not true.. it's Dominicans who are unloading the boat yes but it's also Dominicans who attack Luis and the boys. It doesn't make much sense but that's the way it is. The only explanation I can think of is that one crew is allied with Luis, Armando and Henrique and the other crew is allied with Willy Valero and the Gomez brothers.

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Corndawg93

 

Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

 

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Good answer but that's not true.. it's Dominicans who are unloading the boat yes but it's also Dominicans who attack Luis and the boys. It doesn't make much sense but that's the way it is. The only explanation I can think of is that one crew is allied with Luis, Armando and Henrique and the other crew is allied with Willy Valero and the Gomez brothers.

Not true, it's not the Gomez boys or Willie Valero

 

According to Grand Theft Wiki.com it's the Irish who attempt to rob them

Edited by billy james

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Money Over Bullshit

 

Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

 

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Good answer but that's not true.. it's Dominicans who are unloading the boat yes but it's also Dominicans who attack Luis and the boys. It doesn't make much sense but that's the way it is. The only explanation I can think of is that one crew is allied with Luis, Armando and Henrique and the other crew is allied with Willy Valero and the Gomez brothers.

Not true, it's not the Gomez boys or Willie Valero

 

According to Grand Theft Wiki.com it's the Irish who attempt to rob

Well unless my game is defective Grand Theft Wiki is wrong (wouldn't be the first time) because everytime I've played that mission it's Dominicans on both sides.

 

Replay the mission or watch it on youtube if you don't believe me.

Edited by Money Over Bullshit

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Corndawg93

 

Derrick Mcreary's: Baby Sitting Mission - should come before Mamma Lopez: Clocking Off mission.  I was playing the trinity in order when I noticed this.

Why is that?

Heres my reasoning, When you play Clocking off First, Henrique and Armando and Luis are guarding the boat and the shipment, but when you play Derricks Babysitting mission, you (Niko) and Derrick are guarding the same boat from other people and escort it to Bohan.

 

I'm just saying, its more *in order* event wise. I enjoyed being Niko and defending the boat when it got to Bohan, then switching over to TBoGT and being Luis and going there with Armando and Henrique and defending that same boats shipment. The other way around as it was felt wierd and out of place.

I like it, except the boat in Babysitting is a white Reefer carrying counterfeit cash from North Korea, which lands at Industrial, Bohan after Niko fights off the attacking Albanians. The boat in Clocking Off is a unique black Reefer that brought a shipment of heroin up the Humboldt River and is docked at Fortside, Bohan when Luis and the boys arrive. Also, the Irish Mob, obviously, is allied with the Korean Mob regarding the boat in Babysitting, but it's the Irish Mob attacking the unloading of the other boat in Clocking Off.

Good answer but that's not true.. it's Dominicans who are unloading the boat yes but it's also Dominicans who attack Luis and the boys. It doesn't make much sense but that's the way it is. The only explanation I can think of is that one crew is allied with Luis, Armando and Henrique and the other crew is allied with Willy Valero and the Gomez brothers.

Not true, it's not the Gomez boys or Willie Valero

 

According to Grand Theft Wiki.com it's the Irish who attempt to rob

Well unless my game is defective Grand Theft Wiki is wrong (wouldn't be the first time) because everytime I've played that mission it's Dominicans on both sides.

 

Replay the mission or watch it on youtube if you don't believe me.

Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

 

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

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Money Over Bullshit
Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

 

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

They're definitely not. They all use Dominican models.. what makes you think they look irish??

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Corndawg93
Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

 

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

They're definitely not. They all use Dominican models.. what makes you think they look irish??

The clothes they got on, there Irish and what makes you think there Dominican and why would a bunch Dominicans attack a bunch of other Dominicans just to get the H

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Money Over Bullshit

 

Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

 

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

They're definitely not. They all use Dominican models.. what makes you think they look irish??

The clothes they got on, there Irish and what makes you think there Dominican and why would a bunch Dominicans attack a bunch of other Dominicans just to get the H

Because some of them have green shirts on?? I kinda see your point and to me it doesn't make sense either but they are Dominicans no doubt about it. If there was any doubt in my mind I would say it but there isn't. I am sometimes wrong but not on this occasion man sorry.

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Corndawg93
Well I raplayed the mission twice and they don't evan look Dominican

 

I'm telling you there Friggin Irish

They're definitely not. They all use Dominican models.. what makes you think they look irish??

The clothes they got on, there Irish and what makes you think there Dominican and why would a bunch Dominicans attack a bunch of other Dominicans just to get the H

Because some of them have green shirts on?? I kinda see your point and to me it doesn't make sense either but they are Dominicans no doubt about it. If there was any doubt in my mind I would say it but there isn't. I am sometimes wrong but not on this occasion man sorry.

Well just like you I'm sometimes wrong but I'm not wrong now, There not Dominican there Irish, they don't even look Dominican. Unless your eyes are painted on I'm right.

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Money Over Bullshit

Here's the mission in all it's HD Glory:

 

 

 

Those enemies are Dominican man.. you can't argue with hard evidence

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lilchris131

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the big issue here. It's pretty simple to just switch Babysitting and Clocking Off around without messing up the timeline, as they are next to each other in the list anyway.

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Corndawg93

Last time I checked the Irish aren't black, well I guess I'm wrong

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Magic_Al

Replayed the mission. I don't know why the wiki says Irish. The rival gang is Hispanic and drives gang Patriots and PMP 600s. Does this match any identified gang? Is it a gang that only appears in this mission? It would be good to sort this out just for correcting the wiki and lists of gangs in Liberty City.

 

In any case, the boat in Clocking Off is not the same color as the boat in Babysitting and there doesn't seem to be any connection other than both being Reefers.

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Money Over Bullshit

 

Replayed the mission. I don't know why the wiki says Irish. The rival gang is Hispanic and drives gang Patriots and PMP 600s. Does this match any identified gang? Is it a gang that only appears in this mission? It would be good to sort this out just for correcting the wiki and lists of gangs in Liberty City.

The gang members are Dominicans as identifyable by their model names in the game's files m y domdrug 01 (male young dominican drug dealer 1) and m y domguy 01 (male young dominican guy 1) etc. We can't assume for sure that these guys are part of Luis's old gang (the ND3) but due to their model names there is a good possibility that they are. The only known member of Luis's old gang seen in any of the games is Oscar Gomez who uses a variation of a model called m y drug (which presumabely stands for male young drug dealer). Many people say that Teddy Benavidez is also a member of the gang even though it doesn't explicitly state anywhere that he is. Teddy also uses a variation of the m y drug model which would suggest that it is an alternative model grouping for the gang.

Edited by Money Over Bullshit

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Corndawg93

People saying the Deal ending is canon, well I think Revenge is Canon because Niko would never work with Dimitri again and also I think Party's Over happens a couple hours after Mr and Miss Bellic and Out of Commission happens at the same time as Departure Time.

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Money Over Bullshit
People saying the Deal ending is canon, well I think Revenge is Canon because Niko would never work with Dimitri again and also I think Party's Over happens a couple hours after Mr and Miss Bellic and Out of Commission happens at the same time as Departure Time.

Neither is Canon.. not until Rockstar confirms it. Which given their past track record of keeping things ambiguous I don't think they will.

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Jimbatron
People saying the Deal ending is canon, well I think Revenge is Canon because Niko would never work with Dimitri again and also I think Party's Over happens a couple hours after Mr and Miss Bellic and Out of Commission happens at the same time as Departure Time.

Departure time must happen after Niko's end game, because in one of the possible cutscene conversations, Timur confirms that Rascalov is dead.

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grope_4_that_date

I'm sure you get a better appreciation for the storyline after playing the game in chronological order.

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Corndawg93

I got this from the GTA wiki site, when looking up the mission Chinese Takeout

 

 

Although this mission presumably takes place before The Lost and Damned mission This sh*t's Cursed (when Billy is imprisoned), that mission has to be played before Roman's Holiday, which ties in with Grand Theft Auto IV mission Hostile Negotiation. Three Leaf Clover, which marks the beginning of Luis's story (in I Luv LC), can only be played after Hostile Negotiation. This proves a continuity error has been made by Rockstar Games.

 

Does this make sence to anyone????

Edited by billy james

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Tycek

In fact, it makes sense to me.

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Magic_Al

 

I got this from the GTA wiki site, when looking up the mission Chinese Takeout

 

 

Although this mission presumably takes place before The Lost and Damned mission This sh*t's Cursed (when Billy is imprisoned), that mission has to be played before Roman's Holiday, which ties in with Grand Theft Auto IV mission Hostile Negotiation. Three Leaf Clover, which marks the beginning of Luis's story (in I Luv LC), can only be played after Hostile Negotiation. This proves a continuity error has been made by Rockstar Games.

 

Does this make sence to anyone????

No. Hostile Negotiation is not a prerequisite for Three Leaf Clover. Hostile Negotiation can occur before Three Leaf Clover but not if Niko avoids Photo Shoot until later. Hostile Negotiation will not start without Photo Shoot. If you play Hostile Negotiation early then you're creating an alternate universe where Johnny and Luis are not doing exactly what they're doing in EFLC.

 

There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity.

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chapapote
There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity. MOB did a really good work trying to fix it, but I still don't like it. It just can't be done.

Nope. There's still the Chinese Takeout/This sh*t's Cursed/Have a Heart, which doesn't have a good way to solve it.

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lilchris131
I got this from the GTA wiki site, when looking up the mission Chinese Takeout

 

 

Although this mission presumably takes place before The Lost and Damned mission This sh*t's Cursed (when Billy is imprisoned), that mission has to be played before Roman's Holiday, which ties in with Grand Theft Auto IV mission Hostile Negotiation. Three Leaf Clover, which marks the beginning of Luis's story (in I Luv LC), can only be played after Hostile Negotiation. This proves a continuity error has been made by Rockstar Games.

 

Does this make sence to anyone????

No. Hostile Negotiation is not a prerequisite for Three Leaf Clover. Hostile Negotiation can occur before Three Leaf Clover but not if Niko avoids Photo Shoot until later. Hostile Negotiation will not start without Photo Shoot. If you play Hostile Negotiation early then you're creating an alternate universe where Johnny and Luis are not doing exactly what they're doing in EFLC.

 

There's a limited range of choices that make all three stories line up and that is The POSSIBLE Trinity.

Yes, Photo Shoot unlocks a lot of random missions in the game due to the camera phone being unlocked.

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