The Possible Trinity

[Jimbatron]

I noticed (or rather heard) something while playing the mission "Heavy Toll" that may have a bearing on the list.

Basically what it was was that Malc said to the AOD members when he stopped them at the toll booth and took their money "I hope this isn't one of them fake bills I've been hearing about". As we all know the fake notes are brought into the city in the mission "Babysitting" for Derrick McReary so this comment would effectively mean that Heavy Toll takes place some time after Babysitting. If anybody has an alternative explaination though I would love to hear it (since it would mean me not having to change the list around again).

It is quite possibly the same fake money being talked about, but I don't think it is necessarily proof (hoping that's what you want to hear!)

 

It is similar to the coke in "Heavy Toll", many of us had quite reasonably assumed it is the same as that in "Snow Storm", but actually, your thread proved that it must be a different batch, because "Heavy Toll" has to occur after Michelle takes the bag off Niko.

 

In a similar way, it is quite possible that there is more than one bank note forger in a crime filled Liberty City and Malc is talkng about someone else's funny money - unless Kim is mentioned specifically of course.

 

If it is Kim's fake money, it would also push JK's missions for Elizabeta's story back further relative to Niko's which obviously is problematic as there can't be too long between "Have a Heart" and her arrest.

 

As far as I can see, your list is good as it is

[The Notorious MOB]

 

I noticed (or rather heard) something while playing the mission "Heavy Toll" that may have a bearing on the list.

Basically what it was was that Malc said to the AOD members when he stopped them at the toll booth and took their money "I hope this isn't one of them fake bills I've been hearing about". As we all know the fake notes are brought into the city in the mission "Babysitting" for Derrick McReary so this comment would effectively mean that Heavy Toll takes place some time after Babysitting. If anybody has an alternative explaination though I would love to hear it (since it would mean me not having to change the list around again). 

It is quite possibly the same fake money being talked about, but I don't think it is necessarily proof (hoping that's what you want to hear!)

 

It is similar to the coke in "Heavy Toll", many of us had quite reasonably assumed it is the same as that in "Snow Storm", but actually, your thread proved that it must be a different batch, because "Heavy Toll" has to occur after Michelle takes the bag off Niko.

 

In a similar way, it is quite possible that there is more than one bank note forger in a crime filled Liberty City and Malc is talkng about someone else's funny money - unless Kim is mentioned specifically of course.

 

If it is Kim's fake money, it would also push JK's missions for Elizabeta's story back further relative to Niko's which obviously is problematic as there can't be too long between "Have a Heart" and her arrest.

 

As far as I can see, your list is good as it is

No man, as I've said before I've gotten past avoiding things due to them being an inconvenience if they benifit of the accuracy of the list. I see what you're saying and I applaud you for your explaination.. and how quickly you came with it. Although what your saying is correct and does offer up a plausible explaination, Kim's fake notes were significant enough to garner a news story being written about them which would suggest that their appearence was somewhat unusual. The list can be easily remedied by switching Gerry and Derrick's missions around and when I think about it, it actually makes more sense to have them that way for several reasons.

Your comment provoked me to think about this though.. so for that I thank you. I do think though that I should stick by the formula I have employed throughout making this list and that is if there is any indication, however small as to how the missions should be ordered on the list then I will go by that. With that said I shall post the updated liust a little later when I have more time.

 

EDIT: The list has now been updated. I'm currently playing through the list myself so if there is any more issues that I come across while playing I will post them here before making any changes.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Money Over Bullshit

[Magic_Al]

According to my notes there's a Weazel News report about counterfeiting before Three Leaf Clover. My recollection is that the arrival of the North Korean superdollars was rumored ahead of time. That could explain Malc's comment.

[The Notorious MOB]

According to my notes there's a Weazel News report about counterfeiting before Three Leaf Clover. My recollection is that the arrival of the North Korean superdollars was rumored ahead of time. That could explain Malc's comment.

Yeah man but that's about the clone meds (in Harboring a Grudge).. not about the fake money.

[Magic_Al]

According to my notes there's a Weazel News report about counterfeiting before Three Leaf Clover.  My recollection is that the arrival of the North Korean superdollars was rumored ahead of time.  That could explain Malc's comment.

Yeah man but that's about the clone meds (in Harboring a Grudge).. not about the fake money.

On the Weazel News website there are two stories called Counterfeit Bills in the index. The first Counterfeit Bills story appears between Goldberg Dead and Open Bridges, and is a story about the existence of foreign "supernotes" found only in Amsterdam and Belfast, not yet in America. The second Counterfeit Bills story is the reaction to the discovery of supernotes in Liberty City and appears in the news update that follows the news report of Bobby Jefferson's rescue in Entourage (after TLAD is over).

[The Notorious MOB]

I think I'll just leave well enough alone man.

[LuisBellic]

Wouldn't Coming Down have to happen right after Politics because Johnny would be forced to answer the phone-call right after the mission?

[The Notorious MOB]

Wouldn't Coming Down have to happen right after Politics because Johnny would be forced to answer the phone-call right after the mission?

I have often gotten back from the airport and saved my game before Ashley calls so no not neccessarily.

[f9torre]

 

Wouldn't Coming Down have to happen right after Politics because Johnny would be forced to answer the phone-call right after the mission?

you can igrone call and save

[The Notorious MOB]

Wouldn't Coming Down have to happen right after Politics because Johnny would be forced to answer the phone-call right after the mission?

you can igrone call and save

Yeah, that would be another option.

[LuisBellic]

Wouldn't Coming Down have to happen right after Politics because Johnny would be forced to answer the phone-call right after the mission?

you can igrone call and save

Maybe but Johnny hasn't heard from Ashley for quite awhile so if he noticed it in his phonebook he'd prolly answer. Or maybe timelapses happen with the IV missions to make the timeline of TLAD to make the story go faster.

[The Lolwut Pear]

I made an EFLC only timeline, because it's bothersome for those who have EFLC and IV separate to change disks, load games, etc.

 

[bG] Clean and Serene

[bG] Angels In America

[J] Liberty City Choppers

[J] Bad Cop Drop

[bG] It's War

[bG] Action/Reaction

[E] Buyer's Market

Politics

[A] Coming Down

Off Route

[GT] I Luv LC

[GT] Practice Swing

[GT] Chinese Takeout [+]

[bG] This sh*t's Cursed [-]

[ML] Momma's Boy

[ML] Corner Kids

[J] Hit the Pipe

[ML] Clocking Off

[E] Heavy Toll

[YA] Sexy Time

[E] Marta Full Of Grace

[YA] High Dive

[YA] Caught With Your Pants Down

[E] Shifting Weight

[J] End of Chapter

[GT] Bang Bang

[J] Bad Standing

[MK] Kibbutz Number One

[MK] This Ain't Checkers

[A] Roman's Holiday

[MK] No. 3

[GT] Blog This!

[GT] Frosting On The Cake [+]

[RB] Diamonds In the Rough [=]

[GT] Boulevard Baby

[GT] ...Blog This!

[RB] Collector's Item [+]

[GT] Not So Fast [-]

[RB] Was It Worth It?

Get Lost

[GT] Ladies' Night

[B] Going Deep

[B] Dropping In

[YA] For The Man Who Has Everything

[B] In The Crosshairs

[GT] Ladies Half Price

[RP] Party's Over

[GT] Departure Time

 

[The Notorious MOB]

Nice man.. it kind of goes against the purpose of this topic but I will link to it in the OP since it could be helpful to some people who wish to play EFLC in sequence.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Money Over Bullshit

[The Lolwut Pear]

Nice man.. it kind of goes against the purpose of this topic but I will link to it in the OP since it could be helpful to some people who wish to play EFLC in sequence.

It also makes it cleaner, considering the continuous retcons.

[lilchris131]

I think that the fact that Roman's Holiday/Hostile Negotiation have to be played so late in the story is partially down to the Chinese Takeout dilemma. You may have noticed that Roman's Holiday is unlocked soon after Shifting Weight, the last Elizabeta mission in TLAD. Hostile Negotiation is also partially unlocked by Have a Heart, the last mission given to Niko by Elizabeta. I think that Elizabeta's mission in the two stories were supposed to occur alongside each other, but with the release of TBoGT the mission Chinese Takeout was introduced, thus pushing Elizabeta's TLAD missions, and Roman's Holiday for that matter, past the bank heist. It is just something Rockstar overlooked but has not completely messed up the story however. Hope what I've said makes sense (I love what you've done, by the way )

[The Notorious MOB]

I think that the fact that Roman's Holiday/Hostile Negotiation have to be played so late in the story is partially down to the Chinese Takeout dilemma. You may have noticed that Roman's Holiday is unlocked soon after Shifting Weight, the last Elizabeta mission in TLAD. Hostile Negotiation is also partially unlocked by Have a Heart, the last mission given to Niko by Elizabeta. I think that Elizabeta's mission in the two stories were supposed to occur alongside each other, but with the release of TBoGT the mission Chinese Takeout was introduced, thus pushing Elizabeta's TLAD missions, and Roman's Holiday for that matter, past the bank heist. It is just something Rockstar overlooked but has not completely messed up the story however. Hope what I've said makes sense (I love what you've done, by the way )

Yeah I get what you're sayin man it was a complete oversight on Rockstar's part. Thanks for the feedback

[II Goonah II]

Damn, I feel quite clever knowing I figured this sh*t out myself without any help and I feel i've played through Niko's story perfectly so now the DLCs will run smoothly aswell (apart from Elizabeta's problem, but i've got my own strategy so it makes sense). I worked it all out in my head and a piece of paper before I started playing.

[The Notorious MOB]

Damn, I feel quite clever knowing I figured this sh*t out myself without any help and I feel i've played through Niko's story perfectly so now the DLCs will run smoothly aswell (apart from Elizabeta's problem, but i've got my own strategy so it makes sense). I worked it all out in my head and a piece of paper before I started playing.

Care to share your strategy man?

[Vega LVI]

Where do you have to drive the getaway car in Three Leaf Clover to be able to run over Luis in the crosswalk?

During the opening cutscene of The Ballad of Gay Tony mission I Luv LC (first mission in TBoGT), we see Luis exiting the bank, which was just robbed by Niko, Derrick, Packie and Michael. You play this mission from Niko's point of view in Grand Theft Auto IV in the mission Three Leaf Clover. Now, when Luis exits the bank, he is almost hit by Niko in a car. Now, Niko almost ramming Luis can only be seen in TBoGT. While in Grand Theft Auto IV, you can travel all around looking for Luis, but you can never find him.

[Jimbatron]

Where do you have to drive the getaway car in Three Leaf Clover to be able to run over Luis in the crosswalk? 

During the opening cutscene of The Ballad of Gay Tony mission I Luv LC (first mission in TBoGT), we see Luis exiting the bank, which was just robbed by Niko, Derrick, Packie and Michael. You play this mission from Niko's point of view in Grand Theft Auto IV in the mission Three Leaf Clover. Now, when Luis exits the bank, he is almost hit by Niko in a car. Now, Niko almost ramming Luis can only be seen in TBoGT. While in Grand Theft Auto IV, you can travel all around looking for Luis, but you can never find him.

I guess if you wanted a super consistent play-through, you could always spawn him with sjaak327's trainer during "Three Leaf Clover":

 

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=392973

 

You can even make him (or any other ped you chose a model for) walk and talk on the phone! Where there's a will there's a way

[Sam998]

I don't know if anyone else has said this... But considering GTA is a non linear game (and series I guess) it's pretty damn impressive that R* managed to make them fit roughly together with only a few retcons.

 

(those being Elizabeta, the Chinese Takeout problem, and some other ones i think)

 

 

 

[Funktipus]

It's a pain-in-the-neck having to switch discs, but I have to admit, I'm having more fun playing these three at the same time than separately. Great job, guys.

[Magic_Al]

I made a Possible Trinity edition of my mission tree (PDF). This graphically shows the optional Possible Trinity mission order in relation to the combined mission trees of the games, and is a companion to the regular mission tree (PDF) that organizes missions by mandatory prerequisites only.

[The Notorious MOB]

I made a Possible Trinity edition of my mission tree (PDF). This graphically shows the optional Possible Trinity mission order in relation to the combined mission trees of the games, and is a companion to the regular mission tree (PDF) that organizes missions by mandatory prerequisites only.

That's pretty damn good man. Well Done

 

I'll add a link to the OP.

[OGIamLoco]

 

It's a pain-in-the-neck having to switch discs, but I have to admit, I'm having more fun playing these three at the same time than separately. Great job, guys.

Generally I get around the disk swapping by doing the side missions.

Gathering weapons, friends, etc. It’s a little easier if you also try for 100% at the same time.

 

[The Notorious MOB]

It's a pain-in-the-neck having to switch discs, but I have to admit, I'm having more fun playing these three at the same time than separately. Great job, guys.

Generally I get around the disk swapping by doing the side missions.

Gathering weapons, friends, etc. It’s a little easier if you also try for 100% at the same time.

Thats a good idea man. Killing two birds with one stone... I like it

[Staten]

MOB, in your alternative list for owners of EFLC, you have "Dust Off" and "Paper Trail" after "Undertaker." Shouldn't those two missions come after "She's a Keeper"?

[The Notorious MOB]

MOB, in your alternative list for owners of EFLC, you have "Dust Off" and "Paper Trail" after "Undertaker." Shouldn't those two missions come after "She's a Keeper"?

I may be missing something obvious but why??

[Staten]

MOB, in your alternative list for owners of EFLC, you have "Dust Off" and "Paper Trail" after "Undertaker."  Shouldn't those two missions come after "She's a Keeper"?

I may be missing something obvious but why??

Those two missions are the last two from ULP, but at that point (Undertaker), the player hasn't done the first two or "Photo Shoot" (to get the camera phone). Plus, you seem to have got the right order in your original list. Thanks for making these lists, by the way, I'm playing through the games again, and now I'm seeing more of how the stories join together (and the parts where R* have slipped up a bit).

[chapapote]

I think it would be useful an abstract of the reasons why it was decided where each missions should go. Since most of the setting for the list came from news reports and not directly from the gameplay, it's very easy to get lost (and damned ) among all this chaos.

 

 

Those two missions are the last two from ULP, but at that point (Undertaker), the player hasn't done the first two or "Photo Shoot" (to get the camera phone). Plus, you seem to have got the right order in your original list. Thanks for making these lists, by the way, I'm playing through the games again, and now I'm seeing more of how the stories join together (and the parts where R* have slipped up a bit).

That's why we need that abstract.

ULP's missions are unlocked after "The Snow Storm" and "Photo Shoot". "Undertaker" and the whole Gracie plot are only required to eventually unlock "That special someone". So, as long as "Photo Shoot" is already completed, you don't need to have completed "Undertaker" on any mission of the Gracie plot. Unless, of course, I'm missing something about a news report that has something to say about this.

Somebody please tell his opinion. Personally I don't feel the need to break ULP's missions without a reason. The only reason to consider the first half apart from the second one is that the second mission is requisite for Gravelli's missions, and this is pointless as to unlock Gravelli's missions you also have to complete most of the missions from the Pegorino Mafia (ULP's missions will have long been completed by the time you reach that point).

 

 

With "This sh*t's Cursed" and Johnny's Missions for Elizabetha running parallel to those missions. The only real problem is that they seem to have forgotten that "Have a Heart" is a prerequisite for "Harboring a Grudge".

I think had that prerequisite not been there the story would've worked perfectly.

I agree. Maybe someone with coding knowledge could make a mod, a trainer or something to change the requisites for "Harboring a Grudge"? As MOB said, that would help a LOT. Elizabeta's two last missions could then wait until "Photo Shoot" or somewhere by then, when it's time to unlock ULP's missions (mmm, "Have a heart" is a requisite for "Hostile negotiation". The timeline apparently would fit much better that way. It's not the wat Rockstar wanted us to play, but at this point it's very clear they didn't know what they wee doing.

Edited August 7, 2011 by chapapote