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Money Over Bullshit

The Possible Trinity

Recommended Posts

Jimbatron

 

That has been mentioned before but it's impossible since Gerry's "in prison" missions cannot occur before Museum Piece in GTA IV.

 

It's likely that Gracie was just out getting drunk or high or f*cked by some Guido (Or all three).

 

EDIT: Actually no.. that's not the reason. The reason is that Tony and Luis haven't got the diamonds back until after the Museam Mission meaning that The McReary's would have no reason to kidnap Gracie so that's why that theory is impossible. I knew there was a solid reason I just couldn't remember what it was lol  smile.gif

 

Aren't they just intially just kidnapping her to de-stabalise the Ancellotis for Pegorino? I'm not sure the diamonds are mentioned by the Irish at all until "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend"

 

I'm fairly certain "I'll take her" could occur before museum piece, although "She's a keeper" definitely can't. Not sure though - I may be missing somenthing (e.g. internet stories)

 

EDIT - at some point though Ray Boccino calls Niko to say he know's the old man ain't gonna to pay up "it's her friend Gay Tony who's coughing up with my ice". Not sure when this call is triggered though. This might be a reference point - I'm not sure if during "Ladies night" night Tony says the Old Man has ordered him to do so yet - just that they will be in trouble if they don't get her back. ("Ladies Night" might have to occur before Ray calls Niko I guess is where I'm going).

Edited by Jimbatron

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Money Over Bullshit
That has been mentioned before but it's impossible since Gerry's "in prison" missions cannot occur before Museum Piece in GTA IV.

 

It's likely that Gracie was just out getting drunk or high or f*cked by some Guido (Or all three).

 

EDIT: Actually no.. that's not the reason. The reason is that Tony and Luis haven't got the diamonds back until after the Museam Mission meaning that The McReary's would have no reason to kidnap Gracie so that's why that theory is impossible. I knew there was a solid reason I just couldn't remember what it was lol  smile.gif

 

Aren't they just intially just kidnapping her to de-stabalise the Ancellotis for Pegorino? I'm not sure the diamonds are mentioned by the Irish at all until "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend"

 

I'm fairly certain "I'll take her" could occur before museum piece, although "She's a keeper" definitely can't. Not sure though - I may be missing somenthing (e.g. internet stories)

I'm pretty sure the whole reason they Kidnap Gracie is to force Giovanni Ancelotti to hand over the diamonds to them. There is a chance that I could be wrong but I don't think I am. The way he phrases it is something to do with Niko being married to somebody and the diamonds being a "wedding gift" or something like that (so that the guards don't figure out the plan) then he tells Niko to call Packie who will fill him in on the details.

 

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Jimbatron
EDIT - at some point though Ray Boccino calls Niko to say he know's the old man ain't gonna to pay up "it's her friend Gay Tony who's coughing up with my ice". Not sure when this call is triggered though. This might be a reference point - I'm not sure if during "Ladies night" night Tony says the Old Man has ordered him to do so yet - just that they will be in trouble if they don't get her back. ("Ladies Night" might have to occur before Ray calls Niko I guess is where I'm going).

Just realised that doesn't add anything. The phone call occurs between "Photo Shoot" and "She's a Keeper" and we already know Ladies night must occur between the two.

 

Nevertheless, Ray's call does imply the original intention was not to get the diamonds, but to extort money directly from the Old Man.

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junkpile

the phone call is trigered right after the "side/quick-"mission RANSOM, where you photograph gracie ancelotti. sure ray wants money, but as he states that old man ancelotti won't pay up and knows he is familiar with gay tony (who's got the diamonds back), he would like them diamonds back.

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Money Over Bullshit

I think the only real decider is if Gerry mentions the diamonds in "I'll Take Her" since Ray's phonecall could be taken a couple of different ways.

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Magic_Al

According to my mission tree (see first post) Late Checkout cannot be done before No Way on the Subway, which follows Museum Piece. Late Checkout must be done before Ransom. However, I'll Take Her... and ...I'll Take Her can be done before Museum Piece.

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Money Over Bullshit

Here is the alternative chapter based list I mentioned before:

 

Chapter 1

 

The Cousins Bellic

It's Your Call

Three's a Crowd

Bleed Out

First Date

 

Chapter 2

 

Easy Fare

Jamaican Heat

Concrete Jungle

Bull In a China Shop

Hung Out to Dry

Clean Getaway

Ivan the Not So Terrible

Uncle Vlad

 

Chapter 3

 

Crime and Punishment

Do You Have Protection?

Shadow

Final Destination

Clean and Serene

Angels In America

No Love Lost

Rigged to Blow

Logging On

 

Chapter 4

 

Liberty City Choppers

Bad Cop Drop

The Master and the Molotov

Russian Revolution

Roman's Sorrow

It's War

Action/Reaction

 

Chapter 5

 

Search and Delete

Easy As Can Be

Out of the Closet

No. 1

Escuela of the Streets

Street Sweeper

 

Chapter 6

 

Luck of the Irish

Blow Your Cover

Buyer's Market

Politics

Coming Down

Off Route

The Puerto Rican Connection

The Snow Storm

Have a Heart

 

Chapter 7

 

Call and Collect

Harboring a Grudge

Waste Not Want Knots

Three Leaf Clover

I Luv LC

Smackdown

Final Interview

 

 

Chapter 8

 

Chinese Takeout

This sh*t's Cursed

Momma's Boy

Hit the Pipe

Corner Kids

Clocking Off

Holland Nights

Lure

End of Chapter

Bad Standing

 

Chapter 9

 

Heavy Toll

Marta Full Of Grace

Shifting Weight

Actions Speak Louder than Words

I Need Your Clothes, Your Boots and Your Motorcycle

A Long Way to Fall

Sexy Time

High Dive

Caught With Your Pants Down

 

Chapter 10

 

Babysitting

Tunnel of Death

Blood Brothers

Undertaker

Dust Off

Paper Trail

 

Chapter 11

 

Practice Swing

Bang Bang

Deconstruction for Beginners

Ruff Rider

Undress to Kill

Kibbutz Number One

Roman's Holiday

This Aint Checkers

No. 3

Photo Shoot

Hostile Negotiation

The Holland Play

 

 

Chapter 12

 

Wrong Is Right

Portrait of a Killer

Blog This!

Frosting On The Cake

Diamonds In the Rough

Taking In the Trash

Boulevard Baby

...Blog This!

Meltdown

 

Chapter 13

 

I'll Take Her

Museum Piece

Collector's Item

Not So Fast

Was It Worth It?

No Way on the Subway

 

Chapter 14

 

Weekend at Florian's

Late Checkout

Going Deep

Dropping In

Hating the Haters

Union Drive

Buoy's Ahoy

 

Chapter 15

 

Truck Hustle

Pegorino's Pride

Payback

Catch the Wave

Trespass

To Live and Die In Alderney

 

Chapter 16

 

For The Man Who Has Everything

In The Crosshairs

Get Lost

Ransom

Ladies' Night

She's A Keeper

Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

Ladies Half Price

 

Chapter 17

 

Entourage

Dining Out

Liquidize the Assets

Flatline

Pest Control

 

Chapter 18

 

That Special Someone

One Last Thing

If the Price Is Right / A Dish Served Cold

Mr. & Mrs. Bellic

A Revenger's Tragedy / Out of Commission

Party's Over

Departure Time

Edited by Money Over Bullshit

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Money Over Bullshit

I've replayed I'll Take her and sure enough there is no mention of the diamonds. In fact Gordon actually says (about Gracie's Dad) "He's got alot of money and he pissed off Gerald, that's good enough for me" when asked by Niko why he was asked to kidnap Gracie. This means that there was indeed a mistake on my part and I misunderstood the reasons for kidnapping gracie initially.

 

With that said, I'm gonna rejig the list a bit so that I'll take her occurs before Museum Piece. It does beg the question of why Gerry didn't escape during the prison break though.

 

EDIT: The changes have now been made to the list.

Edited by Money Over Bullshit

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SirPsychoSexy

This is a grand topic, I played through the list a couple of months ago, it was AWESOME. Some things are a bit weird though, but it's not always the lists fault but plot holes. It would be great if R* would release an official list with the order of all the missions.

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Money Over Bullshit

 

This is a grand topic, I played through the list a couple of months ago, it was AWESOME. Some things are a bit weird though, but it's not always the lists fault but plot holes. It would be great if R* would release an official list with the order of all the missions.

It's NEVER the list's fault. lol colgate.gif

 

Yeah them plotholes are a motherf*cker devil.gif

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Jimbatron

 

With that said, I'm gonna rejig the list a bit so that I'll take her occurs before Museum Piece. It does beg the question of why Gerry didn't escape during the prison break though.

 

 

Sorry to push my theory further - but as we've said it is possible "Get Lost" might occur after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" (Gerry's final mission).

 

Of course Niko would need to do the following between "Was it Worth it" and "Get Lost" Starting:

 

[RB] Weekend at Florian's (Assuming he can't ignore Ray's call)

[RB] Late Checkout

[PMC] Ransom

[GMC] She's A Keeper

 

With "No Way on the Subway" occuring at the same time as "Was it Worth it" and "Get Lost" potentially running at the same time as "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" if Johnny arrives just after Niko has left after speaking to Gerry.

 

I think I am also right in saying the the BC, PC and JP mission could all occur after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" without causing any conflicts.

 

It might also future proof the list. If R* bring Gerald McReary back by deciding he escaped (having already dropped a hint we may see Packie again in TBOGT credits) this will be consistent. However, even if we see Packie in a future installment and not Gerald, it is possible he was locked up in his cell during "Get Lost" and couldn't take advanatge. It seems unlikely though "Get Lost" could have occured between Gerry's prison missions - not impossible but there is nothing in the cut scenes with Niko to suggest anything like that has happened.

 

Just thought of a further point of consistency, it kind of makes sense that the $2m Johnny nicked never gets mentioned in the PB or JP cut scenes. You'd have thought the Peggorino family would still be trying to get it back - unless of course, The Lost Clubhouse has already been torched after "Get Lost" and they no longer have a way to find the scattered bikers. PB knew about the bikers involvement not just Ray, so I don't think they'd have let it go prior to the events of "Get Lost".

Edited by Jimbatron

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massrcor
This is a grand topic, I played through the list a couple of months ago, it was AWESOME. Some things are a bit weird though, but it's not always the lists fault but plot holes. It would be great if R* would release an official list with the order of all the missions.

It's NEVER the list's fault. lol colgate.gif

 

Yeah them plotholes are a motherf*cker devil.gif

Yeah like the whole "bum finding the diamonds at meadows park" plothole. That thing is soo huge kirsty alley driving a winnebago could fit through.

 

http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=447769

 

it's worth a look.

 

 

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Funktipus

Interesting. I just finished 'Episodes' but I'm going to fire it up again along with GTA IV and do this list. Good stuff.

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Money Over Bullshit
With that said, I'm gonna rejig the list a bit so that I'll take her occurs before Museum Piece. It does beg the question of why Gerry didn't escape during the prison break though.

 

 

Sorry to push my theory further - but as we've said it is possible "Get Lost" might occur after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" (Gerry's final mission).

 

Of course Niko would need to do the following between "Was it Worth it" and "Get Lost" Starting:

 

[RB] Weekend at Florian's (Assuming he can't ignore Ray's call)

[RB] Late Checkout

[PMC] Ransom

[GMC] She's A Keeper

 

With "No Way on the Subway" occuring at the same time as "Was it Worth it" and "Get Lost" potentially running at the same time as "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" if Johnny arrives just after Niko has left after speaking to Gerry.

 

I think I am also right in saying the the BC, PC and JP mission could all occur after "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend" without causing any conflicts.

 

It might also future proof the list. If R* bring Gerald McReary back by deciding he escaped (having already dropped a hint we may see Packie again in TBOGT credits) this will be consistent. However, even if we see Packie in a future installment and not Gerald, it is possible he was locked up in his cell during "Get Lost" and couldn't take advanatge. It seems unlikely though "Get Lost" could have occured between Gerry's prison missions - not impossible but there is nothing in the cut scenes with Niko to suggest anything like that has happened.

 

Just thought of a further point of consistency, it kind of makes sense that the $2m Johnny nicked never gets mentioned in the PB or JP cut scenes. You'd have thought the Peggorino family would still be trying to get it back - unless of course, The Lost Clubhouse has already been torched after "Get Lost" and they no longer have a way to find the scattered bikers. PB knew about the bikers involvement not just Ray, so I don't think they'd have let it go prior to the events of "Get Lost".

I think that maybe Gerry just didn't escape from the prison because he was in his cell rather than in the yard that Johnny and the boys broke into to kill Billy. Still seems like something he would've commented on to Niko though.

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Urban Legend

Can't wait to play through this mob, looking good.

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Firefly8000

It's messed up when it comes to Romans Holiday/Hostile Negotiation. It has to happen after the Three Leaf Clover but you have no control and after all the times ive replayed the game, it always happens before Three Leaf Clover.

Edited by Firefly8000

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gtaguy95

i played trough it and there was 1 mistake...

 

the alderney safehouse and the derricks mission babysitting cant be unlocked before ray mission long way to fall

 

other than that, good job MOB! icon14.gif

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Magic_Al

 

It's messed up when it comes to Romans Holiday/Hostile Negotiation. It has to happen after the Three Leaf Clover but you have no control and after all the times ive replayed the game, it always happens before Three Leaf Clover.

This can be fixed by moving either Coming Down or Bad Standing between Three Leaf Clover and Diamonds in the Rough, because Coming Down and Bad Standing are prerequisites to Roman's Holiday. In fact, Liberty City Choppers and everything after Buyer's Market can follow Three Leaf Clover without breaking the mission tree, but that would mean starting TLAD then forgetting about it due to too many Niko missions in a row.

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MetaPhysics

I must say, through all I have seen on these forums, this deserves a commendation of some sorts. The time and effort you put into this is not only wondrous, but proves for any fan of the plot such as I, that the proof is in the pudding in a way. So many believe that, when they play these three wonderful games, that the story is just a back-drop for their little hour of mayhem before they switch back over to Call of Duty.

 

It is very refreshing to see someone take time to re-visit the storyline and actually test the three, and see if it really was possible for all three to have happened simultaneously.

 

Bravo.

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Jimbatron

 

It's messed up when it comes to Romans Holiday/Hostile Negotiation. It has to happen after the Three Leaf Clover but you have no control and after all the times ive replayed the game, it always happens before Three Leaf Clover.

This is actually fairly easy to control.

 

Hostile Negotiation cannot take place before you have done "Photo Shoot" for Playboy X. This is where Niko is given a new phone with a camera, which you must have in order to recieve the picture message from Dimitri. Fortunately, if I'm right, "Photo Shoot" itself is fairly inconsequential to the rest of the plot (other than triggering further missions), so you can do this pretty much any time you want (e.g after "Three Leaf Clover").

 

EDIT: oh and totally agree with MetaPhysics. This topic deserves to be pinned, it's the most comprehensive guide you'll find to the overlap between the three story arcs.

Edited by Jimbatron

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Money Over Bullshit

Thanks for the great vote of confidence and support guys colgate.gif

 

And to gtaguy95: I will rework the list a bit to reflect that, thanks icon14.gif

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Azazel
This topic deserves to be pinned.

I don't see why not. A lot of work has gone into this obviously, and MOB seems keen to keep the topic up to date. Pinned. smile.gif

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Mati

Congratulations Money over Bullsh*t. This topic really deserves to be pinned. icon14.gif . You made a great job.

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Seddo

'Bout time tounge.gif.

 

Being going through the missions in order lately and it seems spot on, good work.

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Money Over Bullshit

Just noticed that this topic got pinned!! biggrin.gif

 

Thank you so much Azazel and all those who helped me with this topic along the way. icon14.gificon14.gif

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NonRetard

Pretty impressed with the effort of making this list. Right now, I've begun the TBOGT integration.

 

One thing that irks me is the Elizabeta missions in the Lost and Damned and how Niko's string of missions for her concludes before Johnny's does. Because Elizabeta is sent away immediately after Niko's missions.

 

Was it impossible to rework this from happening?

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Jimbatron
Pretty impressed with the effort of making this list. Right now, I've begun the TBOGT integration.

 

One thing that irks me is the Elizabeta missions in the Lost and Damned and how Niko's string of missions for her concludes before Johnny's does. Because Elizabeta is sent away immediately after Niko's missions.

 

Was it impossible to rework this from happening?

This does seem to be the only major tricky bit.

 

I've replayed this recently. As MOB and others have already pointed out, Chinese Takeout must happen after Three Leaf Clover, which must happen after Have a Heart. However, Chinese Takeout occurs alongside This sh*ts cursed, which is necessary to unlock Johnny's further Elizabeta's missions.

 

This was definitely workable in theory, and I think I've confrimed it in practice. The only difficulty is shortly after Have a Heart, Mallorie will call Niko to say that Elizabeta is "doing a bid". Realistically Johnny's missions for her must complete before this phone call. I tried it, and if you blast through Packie's three missions quickly, it is possible to get all these done before she calls Niko (I managed a couple for Ray Boccino too). It's helped by the fact you finish Have a Heart near to Packies house - he should call you immediately afterwards and you can go straight there. Also, if you complete Have a Heart straight from Snow Storm (again the location is close), Mallorie must first call you about Michelle before she rings again about Elizabeta. This effectively backs her calls up a bit and gives you more time to complete the trilogy in a consistent fashion. Hope that made sense?!

 

Oh, and nice to see your topic pinned MOB - well deserved. I'm not sure if you are aware though, but it appears the link to Magic_Al's integrated mission tree isn't working anymore.

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Money Over Bullshit
Pretty impressed with the effort of making this list.  Right now, I've begun the TBOGT integration.

 

One thing that irks me is the Elizabeta missions in the Lost and Damned and how Niko's string of missions for her concludes before Johnny's does.  Because Elizabeta is sent away immediately after Niko's missions.

 

Was it impossible to rework this from happening?

This does seem to be the only major tricky bit.

 

I've replayed this recently. As MOB and others have already pointed out, Chinese Takeout must happen after Three Leaf Clover, which must happen after Have a Heart. However, Chinese Takeout occurs alongside This sh*ts cursed, which is necessary to unlock Johnny's further Elizabeta's missions.

 

This was definitely workable in theory, and I think I've confrimed it in practice. The only difficulty is shortly after Have a Heart, Mallorie will call Niko to say that Elizabeta is "doing a bid". Realistically Johnny's missions for her must complete before this phone call. I tried it, and if you blast through Packie's three missions quickly, it is possible to get all these done before she calls Niko (I managed a couple for Ray Boccino too). It's helped by the fact you finish Have a Heart near to Packies house - he should call you immediately afterwards and you can go straight there. Also, if you complete Have a Heart straight from Snow Storm (again the location is close), Mallorie must first call you about Michelle before she rings again about Elizabeta. This effectively backs her calls up a bit and gives you more time to complete the trilogy in a consistent fashion. Hope that made sense?!

 

Oh, and nice to see your topic pinned MOB - well deserved. I'm not sure if you are aware though, but it appears the link to Magic_Al's integrated mission tree isn't working anymore.

Yeah I noticed that man.. unfortunately it's out of my control though.

 

I like your proposition about the Elizabetha missions too. Unfortunately it's kind of cheating the system in a way and throws up it's own set of problems since the list is majorly based on how Niko, Johnny and Luis would logically advance through their respective stories. It is an alternative way of doing things though and there is nothing wrong with that.

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Magic_Al
I'm not sure if you are aware though, but it appears the link to Magic_Al's integrated mission tree isn't working anymore.

Sorry! Fixed.

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meson1

Thanks for that mission tree MA. Right after I'd gone and made my own too, because I thought you'd "left" the board.

 

But I think that confirms an error in MOB's mission list, doesn't it?

 

He has "Babysitting" before "A Long Way To Fall" when according to everything I've seen "A Long Way To Fall" is one of the triggers for "Babysitting"

 

Now I thought I'd got it wrong because I'm sure numerous people have said that they've played through MOB's list without any problems.

Edited by meson1

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