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JOSEPH X

Jim Fitzgerald in BOGT

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HawkEyesUK

There is a crashed train at a similar point on the bridge in that mission though. Not that I support the Jim theory.

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Money Over Bullshit

 

You're correct. There is a nice little logjam on the bridge that forces you to get off and go on the sidewalk.

 

This just verifies that Jim's death scenario is NOT a retcon. This was planned from the very beginning.

 

I said in another topic that Luis killed Jim but in a chase that starts just after Niko's. But it appears that it happens BEFORE and not after. Luis somehow causes the subway cars to jam up on the bridge, following the more action oriented theme that TBoGT is supposed to follow, and kills Jim before he can get away from the subway cars.

 

This leaves Jim's body on the subway bridge, the easy to kill biker back in the tunnel, and the hard to kill biker in Broker away from the subway making the news reports correct.

There is one thing that would make that theory true:

 

If Luis did kill Jim Fitzgerald, than the mission where you kill him would have to be given from Ray Boccino, as he is the only person that knows that Johnny and Jim stole the money from him and would want the both of them dead for that reason. Remember, Johnny found out about Jim's death from Ashley, who got the info from Ray.

 

But I seriously doubt that we'll be doing missions for Ray unless these two things happen:

 

1.) Luis would have to meet him through Teddy Benavidez.

 

2.) Ray would have to remain oblivious to the fact that Luis took the diamonds.

In the intrest of fairness lets assume for a minute that this theory is correct. The job wouldn't have to be given to Luis by Ray Boccino because Tony and the owner of the Diamonds (probably Bulgarin) would have a vendetta against the bikers for stealing the diamonds. Maybe when Luis is sent to the museum he is told to get the Diamonds AND the Money but as we all know Johnny escapes with the money and then gives it to Jim leaving Luis with another problem which is getting the money back.

 

Luis killing Jim on the subway and getting the money, causing a collision between two trains that in turn kills one of the bikers that Niko was chasing would be the perfect way to tie up several loose ends in one mission but again we have to ask ourselves, Will Rockstar (the company responsible for making more cock ups than actual sense in their games) go to the effort of correcting a mistake when they havent done so in the past?

Not likely.

Edited by Money Over Bullshit

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John The Grudge

So if this is true then Niko was chasing two nobodies for no apparent reason.

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shinsta312
So if this is true then Niko was chasing two nobodies for no apparent reason.

To me, there's a 30% chance that one of these theories would be true.

 

I seriously doubt that Luis was involved in Jim's death, one way or another.

 

I still think that Niko was the one that was chasing Jim and his buddy. The proof was right in front of everybody. But some people are speculating this topic a little bit too far, thinking there's some sort of conspiracy or continuity error into this.

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JOSEPH X
I still think that Niko was the one that was chasing Jim and his buddy.

Niko was never going after Jim, he was sent by Ray to get the money off Johnny. He even says in the call to Ray that he didn`t see Johnny, to which Ray replies that the other guys is taking care of him. Ray must know Johnny is not being chased by Niko because he`s just seen him and Jim escape Drusilla`s.

 

Considering Luis saw Johnny escape the museum with the cash, and he didn`t know him by name, he could have just put word out to any of his friends that he`s looking for a member of the Lost - it wouldn`t necessarily have to be Ray

 

Luis could even be the one who kidnaps Jim (though I doubt it)

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Astrixone

 

I still think that Niko was the one that was chasing Jim and his buddy.

Niko was never going after Jim, he was sent by Ray to get the money off Johnny. He even says in the call to Ray that he didn`t see Johnny, to which Ray replies that the other guys is taking care of him. Ray must know Johnny is not being chased by Niko because he`s just seen him and Jim escape Drusilla`s.

 

Considering Luis saw Johnny escape the museum with the cash, and he didn`t know him by name, he could have just put word out to any of his friends that he`s looking for a member of the Lost - it wouldn`t necessarily have to be Ray

 

Luis could even be the one who kidnaps Jim (though I doubt it)

It could be he kidnapped him, what is the name of the guy that got stabbed by Jim?

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EnchantedX360
If Luis did kill Jim Fitzgerald, than the mission where you kill him would have to be given from Ray Boccino, as he is the only person that knows that Johnny and Jim stole the money from him and would want the both of them dead for that reason. Remember, Johnny found out about Jim's death from Ashley, who got the info from Ray.

 

But I seriously doubt that we'll be doing missions for Ray unless these two things happen:

 

1.) Luis would have to meet him through Teddy Benavidez.

 

2.) Ray would have to remain oblivious to the fact that Luis took the diamonds.

3.) Gay Tony wants Luis to go after The Lost who killed Evan Moss.

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nicky1995

user posted image

 

user posted image where is jim ?????? > no jim

 

user posted image

 

 

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The Capone
user posted image

 

user posted image where is jim ?????? > no jim

 

user posted image

that was a USELESS post. if im right it was from gta 4/Tlad it was jim re skinned.

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Firefly8000

look, Jim is killed by Niko,

No Doubt.

 

1.) His name is in the original GTA IV Credits, if our biker guy wasnt Jim, who else was? we dont hear Jim anywhere else do we? it even lists his voice actor.

 

2.) When Johnny gets the money from the Diamond dealers, he heads to an alleyway. We see Jim talking to the chubby biker from "No Way On The Subway", they're even in the same alley from that mission. Jim gets taken shortly after he drives off. When he is leaving Drusillia's he says, "Im gonna go get the f*cking brothers". There is only one biker we know of in Algonquin, the chubby one, who is nearest to Jim. He gets him first, going to the alley again. (maybe this biker hangs there a lot?) He tells him about what went down, then Niko shows up, (due to Ray's orders, not knowing that Johnny didn't go with Jim.)and No Way On The Subway's events happen. Jim is either shot to death or flattened depending on your actions.

 

3.) The news reports on computers say that one of the bikers in the "subway chase" was identified as Jim.

 

4.) The bike he uses in this mission and Collector's Item is EXACTLY the same.

 

Clear it up for ya?

 

EDIT: On the first page, Luis is in the Tampa. You can see a little of his head, same haircut etc. so its the same mission, just in a different car.

Edited by Firefly8000

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shinsta312

 

look, Jim is killed by Niko,

No Doubt.

 

1.) His name is in the original GTA IV Credits, if our biker guy wasnt Jim, who else was? we dont hear Jim anywhere else do we? it even lists his voice actor.

 

2.) When Johnny gets the money from the Diamond dealers, he heads to an alleyway. We see Jim talking to the chubby biker from "No Way On The Subway", they're even in the same alley from that mission. Jim gets taken shortly after he drives off. When he is leaving Drusillia's he says, "Im gonna go get the f*cking brothers". There is only one biker we know of in Algonquin, the chubby one, who is nearest to Jim. He gets him first, going to the alley again. (maybe this biker hangs there a lot?) He tells him about what went down, then Niko shows up, (due to Ray's orders, not knowing that Johnny didn't go with Jim.)and No Way On The Subway's events happen. Jim is either shot to death or flattened depending on your actions.

 

3.) The news reports on computers say that one of the bikers in the "subway chase" was identified as Jim.

 

4.) The bike he uses in this mission and Collector's Item is EXACTLY the same.

 

Clear it up for ya?

The thing is...

 

Some People are just never going to accept the fact that Jim's appearance in IV was intended.

 

The only error on R*'s part was the difference in physical appearance between him in IV and him in TLAD, but without a doubt that was indeed Jim Fitzgerald.

 

 

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Firefly8000
look, Jim is killed by Niko,

No Doubt.

 

1.) His name is in the original GTA IV Credits, if our biker guy wasnt Jim, who else was? we dont hear Jim anywhere else do we? it even lists his voice actor.

 

2.) When Johnny gets the money from the Diamond dealers, he heads to an alleyway. We see Jim talking to the chubby biker from "No Way On The Subway", they're even in the same alley from that mission. Jim gets taken shortly after he drives off. When he is leaving Drusillia's he says, "Im gonna go get the f*cking brothers". There is only one biker we know of in Algonquin, the chubby one, who is nearest to Jim. He gets him first, going to the alley again. (maybe this biker hangs there a lot?) He tells him about what went down, then Niko shows up, (due to Ray's orders, not knowing that Johnny didn't go with Jim.)and No Way On The Subway's events happen. Jim is either shot to death or flattened depending on your actions.

 

3.) The news reports on computers say that one of the bikers in the "subway chase" was identified as Jim.

 

4.) The bike he uses in this mission and Collector's Item is EXACTLY the same.

 

Clear it up for ya?

The thing is...

 

Some People are just never going to accept the fact that Jim's appearance in IV was intended.

 

The only error on R*'s part was the difference in physical appearance between him in IV and him in TLAD, but without a doubt that was indeed Jim Fitzgerald.

 

 

Thank You!!

At least someone realises,

it'd be too much of a f*ck up for me to take if they thown Jim in this,

its just stupid to even think it.

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JOSEPH X

...but then why use the old model for Fitz in IV alongside the new model and VA for Fitz in TLAD? It`s like R* is trying to say`who you thought was Jim - ain`t Jim` . There`s many Lost that could`ve been used for that cutscene, but they happened to use the only model in the whole of GTA IV called Jim Fitzgerald.

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shinsta312
...but then why use the old model for Fitz in IV alongside the new model and VA for Fitz in TLAD? It`s like R* is trying to say`who you thought was Jim - ain`t Jim` . There`s many Lost that could`ve been used for that cutscene, but they happened to use the only model in the whole of GTA IV called Jim Fitzgerald.

Like I've said, the physical appearance of Jim was a retcon on R*'s part.

 

 

I mean Gay Tony looked like a generic model in IV and TLAD, yet they gave him a different, more detailed appearance for TBOGT.

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JOSEPH X
...but then why use the old model for Fitz in IV alongside the new model and VA for Fitz in TLAD? It`s like R* is trying to say`who you thought was Jim - ain`t Jim` . There`s many Lost that could`ve been used for that cutscene, but they happened to use the only model in the whole of GTA IV called Jim Fitzgerald.

Like I've said, the physical appearance of Jim was a retcon on R*'s part.

 

 

I mean Gay Tony looked like a generic model in IV and TLAD, yet they gave him a different, more detailed appearance for TBOGT.

Yes I know it was a retcon, but why throw the retcon in with the beta version of Jim?

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Firefly8000
...but then why use the old model for Fitz in IV alongside the new model and VA for Fitz in TLAD? It`s like R* is trying to say`who you thought was Jim - ain`t Jim` . There`s many Lost that could`ve been used for that cutscene, but they happened to use the only model in the whole of GTA IV called Jim Fitzgerald.

Look, they RE-SKINNED him. why? because in 4 his model was very much the same as the other bikers. these models were in TLAD too. ( i know ive seen them before.) they even changed jason quite a lot too. in his face and his body.

They re-skinned everyone. johnny got re-skinned even.

 

and as i said, LUIS IS IN THE TAMPA FFS!!

 

so where can Jim be now?

 

on his bike? 3 miles ahead of the train?? WTF!?

 

or maybe he didnt die when he got smashed by the train, maybe hes stuck underneath and luis is throwing grenades to finish him off!!??

 

i know im really pissed, but its 2 am and i cant be bothered.

 

Case Closed. (at least for me anyway.)

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EnchantedX360

Some people are going off on this way too much, who gives a flying f*ck if R* are f*cking us around with Jim Fitzgerald or not?

 

We enjoy the story behind GTA IV and the Episodes but some people are going off their nuts at people suggesting Jim died at the hands of anyone other than Niko and we have those going off at the thought Jim did die at the hands of Niko.

 

Enjoy the story (enjoy the speculation which adds to the enjoyment overall) and calm the f*ck down!

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Magic_Al

It is a little baffling why Rockstar doesn't patch the TLAD character model of Jim into IV and fix this confusion once and for all. Swapping a character model shouldn't break anything that would have to be re-tested. They seem to have made an absolute decision not to alter the original game content, other than radio updates, no matter how good an idea it would be.

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Nightwing 0613
It is a little baffling why Rockstar doesn't patch the TLAD character model of Jim into IV and fix this confusion once and for all. Swapping a character model shouldn't break anything that would have to be re-tested. They seem to have made an absolute decision not to alter the original game content, other than radio updates, no matter how good an idea it would be.

That's probably the best thing they can do so all these conspiricy theories can go away.

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aChaChaCha

Oh caaamon, it wasn't Niko or Luis....it was obviously Brucie!

 

Jim went over to have himself some serious modifications made to himself from his facial structure to his own skin colour even.

Brucie of course being the perfectionist is a regular there and with his roid-rage all Jim had to do was make a wrong glance and hes already marketed for death by Brucie....Brucie hijacked a train and ran down poor Mr Fiztgerald.

 

Also TBoGT isn't GTA4 Ray Bulgarin...thats his younger more cleaner shaved brother Barry Bulgarin......

Edited by aChaChaCha

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Claude4Catalina

Am I the only person who thinks just as a spanner in the works to everyones theories, and a big punch in the face Rockstar, if it was actually Jim either in the Tampa or in the subway car. I know it seems very unlikely, but I think it would be a nice twist on everybodies theories to Jim's demise.

 

Just throwing it out there.

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RARusk
1.) His name is in the original GTA IV Credits, if our biker guy wasnt Jim, who else was? we dont hear Jim anywhere else do we? it even lists his voice actor.

Remember Darkel from GTA3? He was supposed to be in that game but they later removed him but left the skin on the disc and the credit for the voice actor in the credits.

 

Same thing here but for a different reason.

 

This is just a guess but what I am thinking is that Jim was originally intended to be killed by Niko in "No Way on the Subway". You would chase Jim and the two other bikers in the mission.

 

However, as GTA IV was nearly finished and development on TLaD and TBoGT began somebody must've come up and said "Wait! I have a better idea on how to kill off Jim!" So they removed Jim from the NWotS, placed the subway car entanglement on the tracks, and tweaked the mission accordingly. Then they moved Jim's death, apparently, to TBoGT.

 

They couldn't remove Jim's skin for fear of breaking something else (or to use it for the other two games). And they left the voice actor credits because either they forgot to or it was in the contract.

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Le Rusecue

But don't they say IN GAME that Ray Boccino sent someone to kill him? And I don't think Luis associates with Ray Boccino.

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RARusk
But don't they say IN GAME that Ray Boccino sent someone to kill him? And I don't think Luis associates with Ray Boccino.

Let's not forget that there is a Ray BULGARIN as well. Maybe that this is the Ray people are referring to.

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sd13killer

no, they meant ray boccino... its obvious what rockstar did... they switched the skin to make jim look cooler... there is no big story behind it. thats it.

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Le Rusecue
But don't they say IN GAME that Ray Boccino sent someone to kill him? And I don't think Luis associates with Ray Boccino.

Let's not forget that there is a Ray BULGARIN as well. Maybe that this is the Ray people are referring to.

His name's not Ray, it's Rodislav(I might be wrong.)

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sd13killer

your right, but ray is a nickname for rodislav bulgarin

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MC.

So what's the deal? Was he killed by Luis or did Niko originally kill him as always?

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OGLuke

So what's the deal? Was he killed by Luis or did Niko originally kill him as always?

 

Luis had no part in what happend to jimmy, HOWEVER.. billy grey(lostMC leader) did set both johny and jim up to be killed in (This sh*ts curse).

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MC.

Ok so Joseph's theory is wrong and completely shattered, I guess LOL.

 

I bet Frickie Van Hardenburg wasn't in the story, lol.

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