Same car as I drive

[Extortionate]

You can't exactly call it a 'bug'. For most part, I think it was intentional by Rockstar. If you were allowed to control the variety for cars, I'm pretty sure almost everyone would set it to the highest setting causing the game to run out of memory and start lagging; and then you would have 11 year olds complaining how much more the game sucks. A person with even a half decent system (by today's standards, I mean) would not find the 'same car syndrome' annoying at all.

So really there is absolutely no proof that it's resource based. No offence, but you and the mod seem to make that assumption and people take that assumption as fact.

 

Anyone with 8Gb of ram willing to test this theory?

[Girish]

You can't call it an assumption because it's based on factual observation. The difference between the variety of cars that spawn on a system with 2 GB RAM and another with 4 GB RAM is quite significant. Low RAM is the major reason why the OP is seeing same cars everywhere. The issue is more annoying for him because of low system resources. I have the same issue too, but with 4 GB RAM, the only same cars that I see are parked along the road. The cars in traffic are always varied.

 

Please don't make me repeat what I've already said in my previous 2 posts. Just scroll up a little and do read them.

[Murcchachosa]

I noticed this "same car disease" very less.

I mean, if I drive a Patriot, I see some a few same car.

But if Im on a bike, e.g. NRG900, I never notice the same car disease.

But its an irony.

I play the game on my laptop with C2D P8400 2.26GHz, GF9600M GT 512MB, 4GB RAM and x64 Home Premium SP1

Even if I drive an Infernus, I see some a few trashed/rusted cars.

But not same Infernuses.

Somehow its the architect of the CPU's and GPU's?

 

But the Patriot same car I notice a few same cars.

Others not.

[viometrix]

ummmm i have 8 gb of ram...i just drove around for 2 hours in an infernus.... covered the entire city thouroughly and only saw 2 other infernus the entire time.... and my traffic variations are absolutely wonderful..... ummm next question?

[Extortionate]

 

You can't call it an assumption because it's based on factual observation. The difference between the variety of cars that spawn on a system with 2 GB RAM and another with 4 GB RAM is quite significant. Low RAM is the major reason why the OP is seeing same cars everywhere. The issue is more annoying for him because of low system resources. I have the same issue too, but with 4 GB RAM, the only same cars that I see are parked along the road. The cars in traffic are always varied.

 

Please don't make me repeat what I've already said in my previous 2 posts. Just scroll up a little and do read them.

You don't need to repeat yourself. I just wanted some factual evidence rather than observation.

 

I find it rather over the top you need 8Gb of ram just to get some very good car variation.

 

Just a side note. I remember RockStar saying no two people are alike, yet cars this is not so and based on needing 8Gb of ram to achieve the same Ped effect.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Extortionate

[Girish]

I find it rather over the top you need 8Gb of ram just to get some very good car variation.

No, you don't need 8 GB of RAM. 4 GB is fine and 6 GB is enough. As I've already said, even with 4 GB RAM, the car variation in traffic is pretty good. Same cars only spawn as parked cars along the street. I can't be any more clearer than this.

 

And similar observations by more than one member isn't factual enough for you? Sorry that I can't go too much into the technical details but if someone has the expertise and knowledge, they can probably prove it to you that car variation does indeed depend on available system resources.

[Extortionate]

Observation doesn't equal fact unless you do a proper test with many users or Rockstar themselves confirm it.

 

Can you explain why the peds vary so much more compared to the cars generally?

[viometrix]

 

Observation doesn't equal fact unless you do a proper test with many users or Rockstar themselves confirm it.

 

Can you explain why the peds vary so much more compared to the cars generally?

man i am a programmer...and i have made over 40 mods and conversions for unreal tournament 3 (yes i know its a different game, but it all works the same) and system memory and other resources are very important...i have to actually write tons of extra code to compensate for lower spec systems.... i have have to add an extra 600 lines or so of if not/then scenarios so other people can run my mods....and ive seen them in gta's code to. this accounts for if you dont have a certian amount of video and system ram it is instructed to run certian scenarios to make the game as smooth as possible.... the most common thing to do is to replicate and duplicate textures, meshes, and wireframes..... thats wireframe duplication means more of the same car to enable your system to play the core game...because at heart you dont need different cars to be able to play the game, rockstar coded it to be playable....well kinda...otherwise they dont f*cking care if you see a million of the same car. and the peds are a static resorce, a basic wireframe with a skin on it and an a,b,c,or d ai subroutine.

 

you wanted an honest and true explanation, you have one...this is game programming 101...but somehow as usual i know someone will come back and manage to argue it somehow....if so please program your own game or convert someone else then speak

 

this concludes basic programming and resource management explanations for kindergartners...

Edited September 20, 2009 by viometrix

[davetheshrew]

Observation doesn't equal fact unless you do a proper test with many users or Rockstar themselves confirm it.

 

Can you explain why the peds vary so much more compared to the cars generally?

man i am a programmer...and i have made over 40 mods and conversions for unreal tournament 3 (yes i know its a different game, but it all works the same) and system memory and other resources are very important...i have to actually write tons of extra code to compensate for lower spec systems.... i have have to add an extra 600 lines or so of if not/then scenarios so other people can run my mods....and ive seen them in gta's code to. this accounts for if you dont have a certian amount of video and system ram it is instructed to run certian scenarios to make the game as smooth as possible.... the most common thing to do is to replicate and duplicate textures, meshes, and wireframes..... thats wireframe duplication means more of the same car to enable your system to play the core game...because at heart you dont need different cars to be able to play the game, rockstar coded it to be playable....well kinda...otherwise they dont f*cking care if you see a million of the same car. and the peds are a static resorce, a basic wireframe with a skin on it and an a,b,c,or d ai subroutine.

 

you wanted an honest and true explanation, you have one...this is game programming 101...but somehow as usual i know someone will come back and manage to argue it somehow....if so please program your own game or convert someone else then speak

 

this concludes basic programming and resource management explanations for kindergartners...

hehehehehehe that was funny, "that concludes....." LMAO

[Extortionate]

I've already said it makes sense that it's resource based(I know all about reusing resources to improve performance) . What it doesn't explain is; why the peds are so varied compared to the cars.

 

Let's look that this logically. Why would there be more duplication on cars not doing nothing, than cars doing something? The traffic cars require AI and that in-turn requires CPU power. The cars parked don't.

 

It actually should be the other way around so in a way it doesn't make sense according to what you're saying.

 

 

Side note: Why can't I edit something once without having it show a edited message every friggin time?

Edited September 20, 2009 by Extortionate

[Girish]

 

I've already said it makes sense that it's resource based(I know all about reusing resources to improve performance) . What it doesn't explain is; why the peds are so varied compared to the cars.

Read the part in viometrix's post about wireframes. From my understanding, every car has a different wireframe due to different shapes and sizes of the cars whereas a group of different peds can share the same wireframe but can have different skins to make them appear different from one another.

 

 

Let's look that this logically. Why would there be more duplication on cars not doing nothing, than cars doing something? The traffic cars require AI and that in-turn requires CPU power. The cars parked don't.

The AI is hard coded based on the game engine. The AI is not different for every car. For example, the AI for one car to travel from point A to B is the same as that of another car. So, why exactly would it require more power/resources?

[Extortionate]

 

I've already said it makes sense that it's resource based(I know all about reusing resources to improve performance) . What it doesn't explain is; why the peds are so varied compared to the cars.

Read the part in viometrix's post about wireframes. From my understanding, every car has a different wireframe due to different shapes and sizes of the cars whereas a group of different peds can share the same wireframe but can have different skins to make them appear different from one another.

 

 

Let's look that this logically. Why would there be more duplication on cars not doing nothing, than cars doing something? The traffic cars require AI and that in-turn requires CPU power. The cars parked don't.

The AI is hard coded based on the game engine. The AI is not different for every car. For example, the AI for one car to travel from point A to B is the same as that of another car. So, why exactly would it require more power/resources?

Well the resources idea goes out of the window then. Why would all cars, even the ones that never get used by the AI not vary?

 

Cars that are being driven about sure must use more CPU power than cars that don't, simply because they're moving. If everything stud still, you would need a lot less resources.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Extortionate

[viometrix]

wrong again...the api used for cars to move is what is called a logic script and actually reuires no cpu use at all except to load the script.... it uses an area map around the player, spawns the car and it moves on the line that was defined for it except when an ifnot/then call comes in play like if you swerve in front of or hit a car.... the main resources again are the video and system ram to animate the cars, the main cpu use is in running all the geometric math, and loading all the "calls" to run all the scripts that make the game engine work.... but i can see now unless i provide you with about 500 programming books, a complete breakdown of every line of code in the game, and hold your hand every step of the way, you are going to argue with us..... dude i am a tech, a programmer....and make some of the best first person shooter mods out there....i really honestly know what im doing....but you trying to argue this everytime is pointless, even when i gave you a very thourough breakdown.... so i give up...your need to know or argue wont change the fact that what is just is...period

 

 

Charmingcharlie or another mod....please close this thread, i think we have explained this issue to death

Edited September 20, 2009 by viometrix

[Extortionate]

You need to learn the difference between an argument and a discussion. This is a discussion and I'm no ego trip to win any argument.

 

It's amazing how many people come to the conclusion you're arguing with them.

[viometrix]

well it seems everytime we explain it in terms a 3 yr old can understand you have something else to say to make, or in rellevant terms, argue your point that it is "not" a resources thing.... and i looked up the definition of argue and argument before i replied.... you are technically arguing with us when we give you factual answers and you still say that cant be it...but we love you

[chaosmeister]

And still no one has bothered even trying to answer me.

So again ill repeat, if R* know the exact spec for the console versions (which is their primary market, PC comes way after) then why oh why have they not picked up on this time and time again, why when they no the exact RAM amount they continually make a game that needs more RAM to spawn cars effectively? It makes no sense whats so ever.

Edited September 21, 2009 by chaosmeister

[viometrix]

chaosmeister,

 

the console version and the pc version may have the same missions and such, but in no way are the same...consoles are fixed to their hardware.... everybodies ps3 and xbox are the same...they make games with pre-rendered environment and such.

 

pc's have millions of different specs, the code is written totally from the ground up, nothing is pre-rendered. you will very often to find a game enhanced on pc over the console versions.... and realize this...on consoles it is one dvd.... on pc it is 2....thats because though it may look similar, it is a completely different animal altogether

 

and pc on its lowest setting looks way better than on either console and has effects the consoles just cant handle

 

so basically you are comparing apples to oranges....but regardless i hope i explained the differences in a way that makes sense for you

Edited September 21, 2009 by viometrix

[Extortionate]

The PC version on the lowest setting doesn't look as good as the consoles at all. The consoles run far superior on similar hardware because they're made to do so.

 

The PC looks better on superior hardware?, wow, there's a surprise.

[chaosmeister]

 

chaosmeister,

 

the console version and the pc version may have the same missions and such, but in no way are the same...consoles are fixed to their hardware.... everybodies ps3 and xbox are the same...they make games with pre-rendered environment and such.

 

pc's have millions of different specs, the code is written totally from the ground up, nothing is pre-rendered. you will very often to find a game enhanced on pc over the console versions.... and realize this...on consoles it is one dvd.... on pc it is 2....thats because though it may look similar, it is a completely different animal altogether

 

and pc on its lowest setting looks way better than on either console and has effects the consoles just cant handle

 

so basically you are comparing apples to oranges....but regardless i hope i explained the differences in a way that makes sense for you

Sorry i didn't make myself clear. Im saying the problem with the samecarcrap still exists in the console version as well, or atleast it does for SA on my PS2. And with that they obv no the console specs so really shouldn't be making something that needs more ram than what is available. The only logical explanation for this is they did it on purpose, for SA on my PS2 when i get into comething like a comet, all the parked cars become comets and when i drive around there are loads loads more comets driving around also.

 

And yeh i played the PS3 version of GTAIV 4 or 5 days ago, damn it sucks! so pixely and horrid lol.

[viometrix]

yeah the ps3 version is very grainy and washed out with over brightness....the xbox got the way superior console version

 

Extortionate it has been stated on multiple threads that the pc version looks better on any setting period.... did you argue against it on all those threads too? it is a fact it looks better on any setting just for the simple matter that the pc has features that the consoles cannot handle in lighting and specular mapping.... but i know youll disagree, you seem to like to do that

Edited September 21, 2009 by viometrix

[Murcchachosa]

Observation doesn't equal fact unless you do a proper test with many users or Rockstar themselves confirm it.

 

Can you explain why the peds vary so much more compared to the cars generally?

man i am a programmer...and i have made over 40 mods and conversions for unreal tournament 3 (yes i know its a different game, but it all works the same) and system memory and other resources are very important...i have to actually write tons of extra code to compensate for lower spec systems.... i have have to add an extra 600 lines or so of if not/then scenarios so other people can run my mods....and ive seen them in gta's code to. this accounts for if you dont have a certian amount of video and system ram it is instructed to run certian scenarios to make the game as smooth as possible.... the most common thing to do is to replicate and duplicate textures, meshes, and wireframes..... thats wireframe duplication means more of the same car to enable your system to play the core game...because at heart you dont need different cars to be able to play the game, rockstar coded it to be playable....well kinda...otherwise they dont f*cking care if you see a million of the same car. and the peds are a static resorce, a basic wireframe with a skin on it and an a,b,c,or d ai subroutine.

 

you wanted an honest and true explanation, you have one...this is game programming 101...but somehow as usual i know someone will come back and manage to argue it somehow....if so please program your own game or convert someone else then speak

 

this concludes basic programming and resource management explanations for kindergartners...

According to your grammatica doesnt sounds you are a programmer.

Just an average kid being an Xbox360 fanboy with "superior console"

[Extortionate]

 

yeah the ps3 version is very grainy and washed out with over brightness....the xbox got the way superior console version

 

Extortionate it has been stated on multiple threads that the pc version looks better on any setting period.... did you argue against it on all those threads too? it is a fact it looks better on any setting just for the simple matter that the pc has features that the consoles cannot handle in lighting and specular mapping.... but i know youll disagree, you seem to like to do that

 

There is not much in it really. The PC will always have better texture filtering and if you compare specs, the console always wins hands down, ram for ram, VRAM, ect.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Extortionate

[viometrix]

do i really care....ive noticed in every forum you post in you seem to need to be right.... so you know what, you are right... not that i havent worked in the games industry or anything, know computer programming, and develope mods and enhancements for games....but you are the expert so you are right.

 

 

but if you decompile the console versions and look at their textures against the textures provided in the pc version for low.... the pc version low texture is a higher resolution than the console version...but you are not skilled enough to decompile either are you? and an exact comparison is fact...period....but again you are right (NOT)

[Extortionate]

The simple fact is; if you compare spec to spec, the console will always win. The console version runs smoother than the minimum spec on the PC and at a higher resolution.

 

My old 7800GTX(close to a 7900GT) used to run it at 800x600 and no better at 20fps or less.

[viometrix]

it is the difference of prerendered on the console, and real time on the pc..... so yeah the console will run smoother...doesnt mean it looks better.... and the console scales for resolution depending on the tv....the pc redraws it at the resolution setting...so damn dude shut the f*ck up....you dont know what you are talking about.... go try your sh*t in a real tech forum so myself and about 50 other techs and programmers can tell you how wrong you are!!!

 

what is it with you? tell me do you have any degrees or real programming experience, graphics experience, sh*t even some photoshop or rendering experience? well i have seen and talked to some people here (myslef included) that do....and you argue with every one of them? how f*cking old are you? 12? stop having the perverted need to be right all the time....because you look stupid....ive seen some instances you were right and ill gladly tip my hat to you....but damn even i dont know everything, and i know my knowledge is vastly superior to yours

 

 

and you use a 7800 gtx to compare the game on low resolution to a console, you dumbf*ck...no wonder it didnt look as good on that peice of crap, it couldnt handle the technologies..... the graphics card on a xbox 360 is better than that pos!!!! now take a 9800 gt and run the pc version on everything low....800x600 and compare it to a console version and youll see it still looks better....now i know what you were using as a basis i wont say you look stupid, you are stupid

 

and if the console version is so much better, then why the hell are you here? go play your little console and have fun.....GO AWAY

Edited September 21, 2009 by viometrix

[Extortionate]

I don't need to prove my credentials to no one on here. Just for your information, I'm a graphics artist, so yes I do know Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator very will actually.

 

You don't know nothing about my experience, so don't go claiming you're above everyone else. You proved you're a experience boasting person and get upset when challenged, because you claim to have degrees and papers.

 

Get your grammar sorted, it doesn't do you any favours.

[Murcchachosa]

it is the difference of prerendered on the console, and real time on the pc..... so yeah the console will run smoother...doesnt mean it looks better.... and the console scales for resolution depending on the tv....the pc redraws it at the resolution setting...so damn dude shut the f*ck up....you dont know what you are talking about.... go try your sh*t in a real tech forum so myself and about 50 other techs and programmers can tell you how wrong you are!!!

 

what is it with you? tell me do you have any degrees or real programming experience, graphics experience, sh*t even some photoshop or rendering experience? well i have seen and talked to some people here (myslef included) that do....and you argue with every one of them? how f*cking old are you? 12? stop having the perverted need to be right all the time....because you look stupid....ive seen some instances you were right and ill gladly tip my hat to you....but damn even i dont know everything, and i know my knowledge is vastly superior to yours

 

 

and you use a 7800 gtx to compare the game on low resolution to a console, you dumbf*ck...no wonder it didnt look as good on that peice of crap, it couldnt handle the technologies..... the graphics card on a xbox 360 is better than that pos!!!! now take a 9800 gt and run the pc version on everything low....800x600 and compare it to a console version and youll see it still looks better....now i know what you were using as a basis i wont say you look stupid, you are stupid

Easy up, little man.

We all know the cocksole is different compared to PC.

PC is too powerfull if you have the latest parts.

And there is nothing to discuss about the goddamn consoles.

Gamemakers takes all the advances of the consoles.

When about PC's, they act like pussies when "We have to be carefull when we decide

to develop PC version"

 

Look at Forza 3 for example.

 

GTA4 look like crap on consoles because of the blurry and mix of medium/low textures.

Another option on the PC is the dirt levels.

On the PC R* have the ability to adjust dirtlevels.

Not every car have the shiny reflections like Infernus.

Some of them have mid/rusty muds.

 

So PC's are always better, as long as you have good parts.

[viometrix]

YOUR GRAMMAR SUCKS ASS TO PAWN JOB.... WHEN YOU WRITE IT Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator very will actually.... will should be well....hahahahahaha so we both have the same problem, we dont use spell check..... go play your console, its better anyways....and i only get upset when challenge by ignorant people that dont know what they speak of..... and i dont claim im above everyone else....i know there are people here on these forums smarter than me...i only claimed my knowledge is vastly superior to yours

 

im tired of you, i have better things to do with my time like help some people that actualy need it...jesus christ could come down and tell you that you are wrong and you'd argue with him...i hate to stereotype you, but i havent met a brit yet that isnt like that

[Extortionate]

Wow, you picked up on a typo. I'm a human after all.

 

Would you like a degree and piece of paper for it?

 

At least I can write.... without...... doing this all of...... the time......

[viometrix]

yeah this is a general forum. it is not a forum for a job, or anything i have been graded on. unfortunately you dont have enough experience or spent enough time in chat rooms over the last ten years to know that the periods are a way a person can dictate the flow of his conversation. when i write a resume or paper, or letter you can bet it is perfect. but i see you are grasping at anything to make me look bad. well kudos to you.

 

but again you argue everything with everyone here, i only argue with idiots like you. and i will at least admit when i am wrong, you on the other hand argue further.

 

 

oh and get it right, i dont do all the periods in the middle of sentences. if you want to point something out to make me look bad, do it right. is my grammar ok for you now?

Edited September 21, 2009 by viometrix