RARusk Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 It seems that most people on this board have readily accepted that Jim's death is the result of some screw-up on Rockstar's behalf and that it was ret-conned to save face. This would be fine if there was not going to be another DLC for GTA IV. But after playing around with "No Way on the Subway" on my most recent FAQ updates and knowing the existence of "The Ballad of Gay Tony" I have come to believe that Luis is the one to kill Jim NOT Niko and leaves his body in the subway for the Cops to find and for us to assume that Niko killed him. I think that this mission, where Luis kills Jim, starts just as Niko takes off after the other two bikers. Luis, who is probably after the money (either for himself or for somebody else), confronts Jim in The Lost Clubhouse and gets involved in a shootout. Then Luis chases Jim out of the clubhouse and into the subway where he eventually kills Jim near the body of the first biker thus making it look like he was killed in the chase with Niko. This is how I think it works out. We'll all know the truth come October 29th. "One day I will think of this as just another job. After all, this is what I do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatNigaGuy Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 No. Niko killed Jim. Luis has nothing to do with that story or Ray Boccino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livejoker Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 No, Luis kills Gay Tony. Jim kills Johnny and Niko kills Lil' Jacob. Everyone knows that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilipilli Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 what jim are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGBeast Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 People are still spreading this sh*t? Jim gets killed in the chase with Niko, the in game internet confirms it. Get over it. Luis doesn't kill Jim, and Jim most likely won't be in this episode. Have fun living with delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzaH Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 JIM was supposed to be killed by NIKO in the subway missions BUT in TLAD it shows that RAY got JIM in his restaurants basement. JIM and JOHNNY get away but JOHNNY later found out that JIM got caught up with RAY's guys and got killed. All in all, this confusion is one of many reasons why TLAD wasn't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmG iTs KaMeRoN Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 For some reason i think Luis killed Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinsta312 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 (edited) JIM was supposed to be killed by NIKO in the subway missions BUT in TLAD it showsthat RAY got JIM in his restaurants basement. JIM and JOHNNY get away but JOHNNY later found out that JIM got caught up with RAY's guys and got killed. All in all, this confusion is one of many reasons why TLAD wasn't that good. TLAD mission, "Was It Worth It?" took place slightly before GTA IV's, "No Way on the Subway" and ended around the same time. Some time after Johnny and Jim escaped, Ray sent Niko to go after Jim and the bald biker that was with him. He did get killed in the subway mission. All in all, you ended up confused over what really happened. Edited September 17, 2009 by shinsta312 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGLuke Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 (edited) JIM was supposed to be killed by NIKO in the subway missions BUT in TLAD it showsthat RAY got JIM in his restaurants basement. JIM and JOHNNY get away but JOHNNY later found out that JIM got caught up with RAY's guys and got killed. All in all, this confusion is one of many reasons why TLAD wasn't that good. TLAD mission, "Was It Worth It?" took place slightly before GTA IV's, "No Way on the Subway" and ended around the same time. Some time after Johnny and Jim escaped, Ray sent Niko to go after Jim and the bald biker that was with him. He did get killed in the subway mission. All in all, you ended up confused over what really happened. This is true^ Soon after you kill rays hitmen and arrive back at the safehouse ashely already knows jims dead before johny! LC must have an on the scene 24/7 newscast I do however think loose ties such as who was the real snitch in the LOST might get solved. I think it was jim. I think he wanted to just end all the biker bullsh*t and settle down with his family, but he never got that chance Edited September 18, 2009 by mr. libs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnchantedX360 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 what jim are you talking about? Jim Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchJ90 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 JIM was supposed to be killed by NIKO in the subway missions BUT in TLAD it showsthat RAY got JIM in his restaurants basement. JIM and JOHNNY get away but JOHNNY later found out that JIM got caught up with RAY's guys and got killed. All in all, this confusion is one of many reasons why TLAD wasn't that good. TLAD mission, "Was It Worth It?" took place slightly before GTA IV's, "No Way on the Subway" and ended around the same time. Some time after Johnny and Jim escaped, Ray sent Niko to go after Jim and the bald biker that was with him. He did get killed in the subway mission. All in all, you ended up confused over what really happened. This is true^ Soon after you kill rays hitmen and arrive back at the safehouse ashely already knows jims dead before johny! LC must have an on the scene 24/7 newscast I do however think loose ties such as who was the real snitch in the LOST might get solved. I think it was jim. I think he wanted to just end all the biker bullsh*t and settle down with his family, but he never got that chance I assumed straight away it was Jim with that look on his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycek Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Jim wasn't snitch or cop. He was the oldest member of the LOST MC, already got wife and kids, so no wonder he want to end this biker bullsh*t and start living like a normal guy. He was in the army, he quited (or got thrown out) and he played in some teenage games like riding a bike and fighting. Wouldn't you like to quit and leave this behind? His best friend made a mistake with stealing that cash and Jim, who was innocent, paid for this. Niko killed him during NWOTS. It strange that Ashley have already known that Jim is dead, but maybe Ray told her, and he knew who was killed by Niko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Capone Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 It seems that most people on this board have readily accepted that Jim's death is the result of some screw-up on Rockstar's behalf and that it was ret-conned to save face. This would be fine if there was not going to be another DLC for GTA IV. But after playing around with "No Way on the Subway" on my most recent FAQ updates and knowing the existence of "The Ballad of Gay Tony" I have come to believe that Luis is the one to kill Jim NOT Niko and leaves his body in the subway for the Cops to find and for us to assume that Niko killed him. I think that this mission, where Luis kills Jim, starts just as Niko takes off after the other two bikers. Luis, who is probably after the money (either for himself or for somebody else), confronts Jim in The Lost Clubhouse and gets involved in a shootout. Then Luis chases Jim out of the clubhouse and into the subway where he eventually kills Jim near the body of the first biker thus making it look like he was killed in the chase with Niko. This is how I think it works out. We'll all know the truth come October 29th. ok what?????? that is wrong dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidus119 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 *sigh* Why can't some GTA fans just accept the most simple answer and instead have to make everything a big conspiracy? Rockstar has proven time and time again that they are not trying to be like Hideo Kojima and set up a huge plot twist of a story here. The simple answer is almost always the correct answer. Diaz ambushed Tommy and Sonny's drug deal, Ballas killed CJ's mother, Victor Vance was killed in the ambush, GTAIV takes place in an alternate reality, and Niko was the one who killed Jim. All of the big conspiracy's that GTA fans create are always pointless because the answer in the game is proven to be the true answer. If they really pull a MGS plot twist and make Luis kill Jim, then place his body on the subway with the other bikers, then I will apologize and say I was wrong. But honestly, how ****ed up does that sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinsta312 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 It seems that most people on this board have readily accepted that Jim's death is the result of some screw-up on Rockstar's behalf and that it was ret-conned to save face. This would be fine if there was not going to be another DLC for GTA IV. Really? Because 95% of this forum are thinking the exact opposite. Niko killed Jim, end of story. No conspiracy, just a simple appearance error on R*'s part that was it. In-game reports confirmed it on both games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious MOB Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I'm gonna ask Rockstar on Mouth off and I'm also gonna ask about the dates in the new video. Dear rockstar, I'm gonna start off by saying that I love your work and have thouroughly enjoyed everything you've put out (even State of Emergency) and I'm willing to let the whole Vic Vance turning into a fat columbian in the space of three years thing go but I can't help but notice that you've made two major cock ups in GTA IV that I must quiz you on. My questions are: 1. Is it really Jim that Niko kills in the GTA IV Mission "No Way on the Subway"? Because he looks drasticly different than he does in The Lost and Damned so I'm just wondering was this embaressing inconsistency just a matter of you not being decided on a final model for him when GTA IV came out or was it intentional and therefore part of a cover up of some sort?? 2. In the new Weazel News Special Report the CCTV footage is Dated 2009. Are you guys trying to pointlessly retcon the GTA IV timeline or is this a sorry attempt to mess with the heads of your loyal fans?? (Copied and Pasted to Mouthoff questions page) What dya think... Will I get the goods out of them or what?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinsta312 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I'm gonna ask Rockstar on Mouth off and I'm also gonna ask about the dates in the new video. Dear rockstar, I'm gonna start off by saying that I love your work and have thouroughly enjoyed everything you've put out (even State of Emergency) and I'm willing to let the whole Vic Vance turning into a fat columbian in the space of three years thing go but I can't help but notice that you've made two major cock ups in GTA IV that I must quiz you on. My questions are: 1. Is it really Jim that Niko kills in the GTA IV Mission "No Way on the Subway"? Because he looks drasticly different than he does in The Lost and Damned so I'm just wondering was this embaressing inconsistency just a matter of you not being decided on a final model for him when GTA IV came out or was it intentional and therefore part of a cover up of some sort?? 2. In the new Weazel News Special Report the CCTV footage is Dated 2009. Are you guys trying to pointlessly retcon the GTA IV timeline or is this a sorry attempt to mess with the heads of your loyal fans?? (Copied and Pasted to Mouthoff questions page) What dya think... Will I get the goods out of them or what?? I sent them a mouthoff weeks ago about something unrelated. Yep, still waiting for that response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss27 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 You come off as an arrogant dork who spends too much time analyzing games with that post. They will probably read it, laugh, and not respond. Why do so many people act like they run **** online? They don't owe you anything. Insulting them isn't going to help your cause when you are asking them to answer your questions. I would never seriously respond to someone who asked questions like that and acted so self righteous. I hope Rockstar disregards it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livejoker Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 This is by far the most confusing yet most stupid thread i've ever posted in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARusk Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 My, I've stirred up quite the hornet's nest haven't I? After some thinking, I've come up with the following menu of theories concerning Jim for you to chew over: 1. The Retcon. This is by far the most popular theory. While I do not believe that Rockstar made any mistakes in regards to Jim's death it is understandable, because of Rockstar's prior mistakes (Hot Coffee, Vic Vance), for most people to believe this. 2. Luis kills Jim. I believe that Luis is the one who kills Jim in a chase that occurs very shortly after the one that Niko starts. While we've killed friends before they were really turncoats you don't mind killing. Here, however, I think Rockstar will force you to kill someone that you actually liked and who worked with you in the prior game. Rockstar's way of trying to do something different. 3. Neither Niko or Luis kills Jim. Somebody else does and leaves his body in the subway. Hopefully during the course of TBoGT we see who does it and the circumstances surrounding it. 4. Jim doesn't die at all. Jim, because of his wife and child and knowing how deep things are, decides to go to the Feds and enter Witness Protection. After the chase with Niko and finding that one of the bikers was burned beyond recognition the Feds decide to use this dead biker as cover to help Jim escape into Witness Protection. So, in a sense, Niko does actually "kill" Jim but not in the traditional way. The closest thing to a feel good ending for Jim. 5. None of the above. Rockstar pulls a fast one and we all look like bloody idiots. Remember, each entree from the menu comes with a free side order of fries and a drink (but the big breasted scantly clad waitress who delivers your order will cost you extra). Enjoy! "One day I will think of this as just another job. After all, this is what I do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fawks20000 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Well doing the research every naysayer should be doing, it appears that Rockstar simply miscalculated Jim's importance on the story when they created the first character model. (Obviously, he looks different in TLAD because the Lost aren't supposed to be stereotypical bikers. They aren't typical white skinheads. They are a plethora of people which is why they're called "the lost" ) That's it. Ray's men killed Jim. Niko killed Jim. Niko was one of Ray's men. meanwhile in an alternate universe... i think its perfectly reasonable that victor gained some pounds after the events of VCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss27 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 It still doesn't make sense that they wouldn't update the original mission to make Jim look like TLAD's Jim after the game came out. It'd be like making Elizabeta looking like a short blonde when Johnny sees her in TLAD, obviously on a larger scale since she plays a bigger role in the story. Johnny looks like a stereotypical biker. So does Billy. Why couldn't they just make Jim the same guy as he was when Niko killed him? Jason's character was kept the same. It just lacks logic. Was making him dark skinned really that significant enough to mess up the continuity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fawks20000 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Yes it was! The point to The Lost is that they are a collection of "lost" souls from everywhere. The main characters needed to be a little diversified so that the player could care about their cause. Now obviously, they couldn't just screw up Johnny's model because he is a character that is seen multiple times in IV. Johnny's character is just complex. He has the look of a stereotypical biker because for the most part he is.... but he's jewish (arent stereotypical bikers stereotypically antisemitic?)....and he cares about his friends... you get my point. Billy IS the stereotypical biker, which is what makes him a hate-able antagonist. Or you could look at it like we saw these bikers through Niko's determined eyes. He needed to kill these guys and that's all he saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum 1 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 The lost are called so because the guys who started it were war veterans who had lost their fellow soldiers. You can read more on the losts website. Johnney often shouts 'anti f*ckin' semites!' in combat (even if hes not fighting the AoD). Jim has a very evil look, and he was one of the best (if not the best) characters in the game, so the Witness protection theory is the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGLuke Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 What i didn't get was why johny kept calling jim, james? Does johny not know james, is really jim? Or does he just not care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowdro420 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 jim is short for james, retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidus119 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 What i didn't get was why johny kept calling jim, james? Does johny not know james, is really jim? Or does he just not care? They all called themselves by their names. Jim called Johnny "Jonathan" and Johnny called him "James". Hell, I think he even calls Clay "Clarence" and Terry "Terence" at some points too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Notorious MOB Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 What i didn't get was why johny kept calling jim, james? Does johny not know james, is really jim? Or does he just not care? They all called themselves by their names. Jim called Johnny "Jonathan" and Johnny called him "James". Hell, I think he even calls Clay "Clarence" and Terry "Terence" at some points too... Yeah Johnny even calls billy William at one point. It's Just their way of ripping on each other for having pansy names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGLuke Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) jim is short for james, retard. I didn't know that, and just to be sure i looked it up and you was right. For some reason jim is short for james lol. neways.. thanks for cleaing up that mystery guys. Edited September 22, 2009 by mr. libs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazystars Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 in this instance, this forum is for people who are having trouble locating a friend/loved one who may be in the system, but they dont necessarily know where. Your take on being "lost in the system" is a good one also. Nance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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