Marital 'rape'.

[jackel311]

I have persoanlly pondered over this question many times previous to posting this:

'Does marital 'rape' exist?

 

Personally i know its a load of idiotic bunkum, i mean surely if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained. I mean there is enough false rape accustions in the world, which damange honest men's lives tremendously without this nonsensical 'rape' within marriage. I mean imagine you have a wife and she agreed to have sex with you one night, but then afterwards she complains to the police it was rape and she didn't really want it - for one illogical reason or another. Imagine the sexual blackmail that goes on; "Buy me this or i shall say that you raped me". It infuriates me that women now have more rights than men, they have the upper hand in marital and sexual lawsuits - us men who created these great nations are now second class citizens within them. Perhaps this here topic isn't just about marital 'rape', but also about the unfair treatment of men, that might be the women having a man arrested for false rape accusations or sexual assualt or the woman usually winning most of the custody of the children in a divorce. I insist that you please discuss this civilly and don't bring bad feeling and hatred into my topic.

[kuro-neko]

I believe it does exist

 

If a woman says to her husband I'm not in the mood for sex tonight, but the man forces himself upon and begins to f*ck despite the woman saying NO, then that is rape.

 

Of course there are going to be false allegations, but that's how the world is. Just hope you have good lawyers.

[Robinski]

 

Personally i know its a load of idiotic bunkum, i mean surely if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained.

Whoa dude, where are you from? The 1500s?

 

Rape is rape, it doesn't matter with the realtionship between the two people, if one party doesn't consent but the other carries it out anyway, then it's rape. We did about a case involving this in my Law class, we only touched on it, it was avery straightforward case and the guy was convicted unanimously.

 

However, on the subject of false accusations I might agree with you (i'm not terribly sure what your stance is) because it does seem to happen a lot. Everyone will always side with the woman in the case, becauseof course the man will deny it even if it did happen. There should be very harsh consequences in place for such false accusations.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Robinski

[Carnage1120]

Damn, this thread was moved at the exact time I was about to post.

 

If the woman is blackmailing you, its not a healthy relationship.

[860]

 

i mean surely if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained.

 

...

 

It infuriates me that women now have more rights than men, they have the upper hand in marital and sexual lawsuits - us men who created these great nations are now second class citizens within them.

god damn you´re retarted. i really hope you were not talking seriously and somehow feel amused when trolling forums and such.

[Carnage1120]

i mean surely if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained.

 

...

 

It infuriates me that women now have more rights than men, they have the upper hand in marital and sexual lawsuits - us men who created these great nations are now second class citizens within them.

god damn you´re retarted. i really hope you were not talking seriously and somehow feel amused when trolling forums and such.

It sounds like honest opinions to me. I disagree with them though.

[livejoker]

 

i mean surely if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained.

 

...

 

It infuriates me that women now have more rights than men, they have the upper hand in marital and sexual lawsuits - us men who created these great nations are now second class citizens within them.

god damn you´re retarted. i really hope you were not talking seriously and somehow feel amused when trolling forums and such.

It sounds like honest opinions to me. I disagree with them though.

People with those kinds of opinions make me sick.

Not that I dislike different opinions...it's just that people seem to abuse the freedom of speech and have an opinion of one's own (if that's possible/sayable) .

 

What was the question again?

 

**EDIT* Debates & Discussion?! I'll get bashed for saying a piece of my mind.

[Tobias Fünke]

 

Personally i know its a load of idiotic bunkum, i mean surely if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained.

Get in the f*cking kitchen women.

[Girish]

Forcing yourself onto a woman, irrespective of your relationship with her, is not done. Legally, it would be rape and of course, immoral. If the woman is your wife and if you're facing issues in your sexual life, go see a counsellor. If it doesn't help, the two people are probably better off without each other. But forced sex is definitely not amongst the solutions.

 

As the others, I agree with the false accusations part. We just need to have a stronger law for such things. The victim's testimony cannot be trusted, solely.

[Mike Tequeli]

it's just that people seem to abuse the freedom of speech and have an opinion of one's own (if that's possible/sayable) .

That's retarded, having opinions of one's own is freedom of speech, not abuse of it.

 

As for this, no it is not a wife's duty to pleasure her man, she is not a sex slave. If you physically force her to have sex with you then it's rape, no question about it.

[Shaunr]

rape is when a man has sex with a woman who doesn't want to so say that man is a husband and whom he's doing it with is his wife so it exists. the definition of rape doesn't change.

[DemonKing]

A woman doesn't live to serve a man at all. I can tell right now by your post you're extremely sexist and stuck in the cultural norms of times many years ago.

 

A woman doesn't have to fulfill a mans sexual desire just because she marries him. Maritial rape does exist, and it's possibly one of the most sickening and disgusting forms of rape. How can somebody rape someone they married and love? That's assuming the marriage is based on love the begin with.

 

As said yes, there will be false accusations now and again, but if you really know the person you love before you marry them you're not going to marry some blackmailing bitch. But simple fact is that it does happen it is real, and you're a sexist.

[Effy in Chains]

RAPE! RAPE! RAPE!

 

...but in all seriousness rape is a heinous crime in any situation, which can destroy lives and this guy is a sexist douche. I agree with girishb that the victim's testimony cannot soley be trusted plus i'm in favour of harsh punishments to be connected to both rape and false allegations (especially if the guy has already served some/all of his prison sentence before they discover his innocence.) I'd say X years is just for an actual rapist to rot in a cold cell, but if a guy was wrongly found guilty and had done time for it, then the woman who put forward the false rape case should have to serve double the time in prison that the man did.

[Punk-in-Drublic]

It shouldn't make any difference if a man rapes a woman after knowing her for 5 minuites or 5 years, its still rape, nobody has the right to force sex on somebody. If you ask me, its ridiculous, even more so ridiculous are these claims:

 

 

 

i mean surely if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained.

 

Seriously, aren't we meant to live in a society were these views and opinions shouldn't exist? take your sexism elsewhere, kapeesh?

[El Zilcho]

Now now, we may not agree with some backwards appearing opinions, but there's no need to insult him (as subtle as it may be). I personally disagree with him but this is debates and discussions isn't it? In all honesty, rape in marriage is (as DemonKing said) probably one of the worst kinds, as he claims to love her yet has no regard for her feelings or her circumstances. If its a consistent problem, then perhaps the wife has no regards for his needs, probably not wanting to give him any pleasure, and that's serious in a marriage. But the solution is never to be violent. Otherwise, the sex would have no meaning at all, right? if you want no strings sex, go for a one night stand or even go with a prostitute. With a wife, it has to be respectful and loving, at least that's what I've always believed.

 

As for the false allegations, that's always sickened me, but not because they're women doing it per se. Any false allegations and blackmail (man or woman) make my blood boil, but one that uses such a harmful crime accusation (i.e rape) can be much more damaging than just a rumor spreading, and so is even worse.

[jackel311]

Your enlightened replies have opened my mind to the truth, I apologize for the my misguided opinion I posted. My father taught me that information and it seems to be a little outdated now I have seen other's opinions.

[makeshyft]

Your enlightened replies have opened my mind to the truth, I apologize for the my misguided opinion I posted. My father taught me that information and it seems to be a little outdated now I have seen other's opinions.

Are you from a family that practices Islam?

[philster_12]

nah, this is considered as a warcrime already not just a myth. Japs did this sometime to our country, even this generation, thats why we have Half Japanese without their Father. but i don't mind about it.

[Tobias Fünke]

Your enlightened replies have opened my mind to the truth, I apologize for the my misguided opinion I posted. My father taught me that information and it seems to be a little outdated now I have seen other's opinions.

Are you from a family that practices Islam?

Yep, because we know that all Muslims rape their wives.

[General Goose]

Your enlightened replies have opened my mind to the truth, I apologize for the my misguided opinion I posted. My father taught me that information and it seems to be a little outdated now I have seen other's opinions.

Are you from a family that practices Islam?

Yep, because we know that all Muslims rape their wives.

I think it's because some extremist Muslims treat women like sh*t (however, that goes in part with almost every other religion.)

 

Marital rape exists. /thread

[makeshyft]

 

Your enlightened replies have opened my mind to the truth, I apologize for the my misguided opinion I posted. My father taught me that information and it seems to be a little outdated now I have seen other's opinions.

Are you from a family that practices Islam?

Yep, because we know that all Muslims rape their wives.

That was your assertion, not mine. Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

If you read the first post, the poster has been instilled with an absolutely abhorrent attitude towards women. I am merely trying to figure out the genesis of that attitude.

 

 

if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained.

That is the sentence to which I was referring.

 

[Asoyfy37]

It's no a rape. I dont belive in monogamy. But I do belive that any woman should get pregnant. With or (today) without having sex with a man. We wouldnt talk about that if we lived a world that any male or female dont have to be only with one partner for the rest of their life.

[jackass2009]

You can't rape the willing. But, yeah. Probably real.

[Tom Toole]

 

Your enlightened replies have opened my mind to the truth, I apologize for the my misguided opinion I posted. My father taught me that information and it seems to be a little outdated now I have seen other's opinions.

Are you from a family that practices Islam?

Yep, because we know that all Muslims rape their wives.

That was your assertion, not mine. Stop putting words in my mouth.

 

If you read the first post, the poster has been instilled with an absolutely abhorrent attitude towards women. I am merely trying to figure out the genesis of that attitude.

 

 

if i women chooses to marry a man then she has signed up to pleasure her husband whenever he so desires, partly her job as a wife is to keep her man entertained.

That is the sentence to which I was referring.

Comments

Well, I would like to begin by criticizing the mainstream view of Islam and muslims. Non-dominant cultures are most often represented in media in the most perjorative way. When do you see a muslim in a hollywood movie? When he is the enemy.

 

Islamic societies have specific and strict rules regarding women which have had a lot of share in the media. It is interesting to imagine how a non-sexist culture would interact with western countries, which are incredibly sexist even now - would american come to almost be sinonimous with "sexist"?

 

I think the grammar used by jackel311 seems to indicate a foreigner. The values used by jackel 311 do also.

 

I think it's important also to question whether "sexist arguments" are acceptable in a debate. To question how much "freedom of speech" existed - there were plenty of insults present against jackal311. To what extent "heinous crimes" can be defended. To what extent dialogue is even possible given different values.

 

More on Islam, Christianity and Sexism:with the help of google

I looked up in the internet "please your husband" and was surprised by the number of hits - it's important to remember how sexist our society is.

"duty to please your husband" however gave around four hits - "Bishop Philips brother says 'Up there has nothing to do with down there. It's your duty to please your husband whenever he wants it. Remember, your body is no longer your own. It's his. So handle your business or someone else will'" An article "opinions, please..." was an account of a woman whose husband demanded that she please him. Two bulletin boards related to Islam also showed up one in which it is Shytan saying that the woman should please her man.

 

When searched "Duty to please their husband" one search result showed up: "Other women talked of their duty to please their husband or their fear of him finding another woman if they refused sex too often." in an Article for Health Care for Women International.

 

Sexism has to do with christianity as well as Islam. But the way I understand it, it is the change from sexism in "western countries" is to some extent a change from christianity to secularism, but at the same time they are two separate changes (that have themselves in western society barely begun) and not one change from "sexist christianity" to "non-sexist secularism" but rather a kind of "sexist secularism" and "non-sexist christianity" existing separately.

 

a third search in ["duty to" husband] gave "Wives should love their husbands (Titus 2:4) and reverence them: “Let the wife see that she reverence her husband.”*" - this is christianity folks...

[Flat Face]

If a chick is saying she doesn't want it and you force yourself on her in any way... it is rape so go suck the front end of an oncoming truck.

 

2 of my girlfriends had been raped by ex boyfriends of theirs... 1 moved and I'm having trouble finding.. the other I'm only just starting to look for but either way, rape in my eyes "means they've voided their right to live. *the guys that is*

[makeshyft]

 

Well, I would like to begin by criticizing the mainstream view of Islam and muslims. Non-dominant cultures are most often represented in media in the most perjorative way. When do you see a muslim in a hollywood movie? When he is the enemy.

My views are based upon things I have witnessed living in a city with a large Muslim population. Not everyone suckles at the withered teat of the media.

 

 

Islamic societies have specific and strict rules regarding women which have had a lot of share in the media. It is interesting to imagine how a non-sexist culture would interact with western countries, which are incredibly sexist even now - would american come to almost be sinonimous with "sexist"?

I'm not American, but I can see what you're saying. However, not letting your wife drive a car, handle money, or leave the house without covering her entire face and body is a little different to missing that big promotion because you have a vagina.

 

 

To what extent dialogue is even possible given different values.

Very possible, if you recognise that human beings are entitled to certain, basic human rights. Personal safety would class as a basic right, and being repeatedly raped by your spouse sh*ts all over it.

 

 

Sexism has to do with christianity as well as Islam.

I don't think anyone would deny that. I'd like to see some figures relating to spousal abuse against women of both faiths, though.

 

 

"Wives should love their husbands (Titus 2:4) and reverence them: “Let the wife see that she reverence her husband.”*" - this is christianity folks...

That seems like a bad translation, but I suppose the meaning is clear. However, quoting biblical passages isn't acceptable. It's basically irrelevant, as most Christians don't really follow the bible anymore anyway.

 

Before anyone asks: no, I am not a Christian.

[Tom Toole]

Hmmm...

 

As to the prevalence of sexism in western countries - sexism in western countries is not only related to wages or pay. "In the United States, a woman is battered every 15 seconds." cites feminist.com from UN numbers - spousal abuse is very "western". ("In the United States, data compiled by the National Victim Center in 1995 indicate that over 700,000 women are raped or sexually assaulted annually.")

 

I think the wikipedia article "spousal abuse" and "incidence of domestic violence" might be elucidative of your request for figures. (http://en.wikipedia.org)

 

 

[dialogue between people is] Very possible, if you recognise that human beings are entitled to certain, basic human rights.

I don't agree- one example I find interesting is the communist and the national security, or the atheist and the deist. I think that there needs to be common ground from which to build a dialogue upon. Language is a common ground for example, one level necessary for communication. Dialogue is a bit more than communication though -

 

Basic human rights are not basic at all - One of the "basic" human rights, as part of the "universal" declaration of human rights, is "freedom of religion". Do you propose to defend some human rights and not others? Apparently some Islamic countries defend Cairo Declaration on Human Rights, and even the "universal" ones are not ratified by all countries but intead divided in two.

 

Interesting comment from wikipedia "Religion, culture and politics are intertwined, the position of women and the lack of due legal process in many Islamic societies can not be entirely attributed to the application of Shari'a."