So R* gave in to the masses! bout time!

[Slamman]

Really, listening or reading to Sam Houser's comments, you can tell they approached it from a personal level, not to spite you, the user, at all... Sadly, the exclusive thing works against making people happy even more so, but the system is not all that spendy any more, so it's more moot argument then in the past.

 

The other thing is for RN, this was a fresh build from nothing, and needed to work on two different systems, what we see, the final "4", is just as it needed to be, minus the warts, of course.

I sympathize with you wanting all the content, all the fun factor, but this is a more realistic GTA, bottom line, and things were changed as they always are game to game, to game.

True of most games, in fact.

 

I take issues with some of it, but the Housers are creating the game they want to play, at the end of the day, it's about pleasing yourself before others. The same way a music artist approaches their art. Todd Rundgren and David Gilmour have echoed those statements and they are true with creation of interactive gaming as well. Other studios have seen and played GTA and decided they liked it to an extent to borrow from it, and we've seen that as well.

 

Money and sales are a part of the equation, but being as secrative as R* is in development, you should know they are not playing favorites for an adoring public, it just happens to be highly successful because "they are on to something".

Edited September 3, 2009 by Slamman

[Nightwing 0613]

Im probably one of the few people who actually enjoyed the dating & friend activities. I was ticked the whole dating thing was left out of TLAD, even though Jeronimo Barerra "Rockstar Games VP of Product Development" said on live TV during an episode of Gametrailers TV that Johnny would have the ability to date chicks online. Which we found on on Feb 17, that it was bogus.

 

Oh, he also said that 1 week prior to the official release of the Lost and Damned.

[bobgtafan]

Im probably one of the few people who actually enjoyed the dating & friend activities. I was ticked the whole dating thing was left out of TLAD, even though Jeronimo Barerra "Rockstar Games VP of Product Development" said on live TV during an episode of Gametrailers TV that Johnny would have the ability to date chicks online. Which we found on on Feb 17, that it was bogus.

 

Oh, he also said that 1 week prior to the official release of the Lost and Damned.

I liked hanging out with friends, wathcing TV ( one of my favorite addtions I hope they keep it!), the internet and all of those things but at the same time the friend activies were boring cuz all you did was drive here leave thier the end or do some crappy mini game ( bowling) when I would had rather like gone to the club or take a tour, rob a bank ( with criminal friends), go INSIDE the bars and maybe have a mini game.

[Slamman]

When you pause gameplay, just flick on the in-game TV! Sometimes better then the real one. What I said earlier about the lacking freedom of friends as Houser envisioned it, is that you can call them, pick them up and do a lot more with them in tow then a routine date that is limited in nature, that's where it gets old fast.

[Leo Colt]

You're right Slamman. In fact, the true fun from these games is going off the beaten track and pushing the boundaries. Just because they say "take me to this burger joint" doesn't mean you have to. If you want to go on a crazy rampage, do it. Hell, this got old fast in San Andreas and you could just go wild instead. Yet many people think you are forced to do everything set in stone in this game, which is not true bar a few exceptions.

[buffalosoulj4h20]

 

@gtafan: So your own mouth is legit?    I'm talking about a real source.

 

@numdmind: Firstly, read before you post. I said it's business, but don't act like they are doing it more for their fans and not for the love of money. that's what people are confusing here. Secondly, don't even turn this into a political issue. I don't want to start with a conservative loser.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1955256/Gr...-York-City.html

That level of detail took years.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161711

I rather beleive R* than some random person online really.

And ofcourse you would go to Rockstar because you're a sucker, so keep being a sucker, man. If it weren't for people like me and others who demand not being taking advantage of, suckers like you would be paying for sh*t games because you believed everything your favorite game developer told you.

 

About your sources. What? They took pictures in NYC? To take pictures all over Manhattan takes 4 years? What does that prove at all?

 

Yes they delayed it, and they couldn't add parachutes and weapons because of that? Where is the source in that?

That's it I'm tried of this s*** on this thread.

 

They said they delayed it so that they could have more time with delevoping the game. Ego they didn't have time to put in little s*** that didn't make a difference ( bikes, planes, parachutes) to the story. And why do you keep calling people who beleive R* suckers? O I'm sorry that I trust a company with a long history of releasing good information against some conspricacy nut job online who says that if you beleive what R* says your basically suckers to the system. And to gather the massive amount of info needed for New York would take years and then to virtualize it would take 4 years. And also anyone knows that to make the average game it takes 2 years. Well GTA 4 wasn't average it was a whole new installment and took a radical step in virtual worlds meaning duh it took longer. You don't seem to get they DIDN'T HAVE THE TIME! Why? These reasons

1. PS3- With the Blu Ray thier were many things delevopers had to learn about the PS3 blu Ray system thus it took them longer to make the game.

2. Scale- It could be agrued GTA was the "largest" in term of content, depth, graphics etc game made to date.

3. New Software- R* basically had to relearn to make a game on the new software programs.

4. Money- GTA 4 was the most expensive game ever made( 100 million dollars). You think they were going to further delay the game and continue to burn money for something as dumb as parachutes? NO

 

If you want to continue to go along with if you beleive R* your a sucker fine but that means you don't even beleive TBoGT will be released at all huh

Wow, you're such an idiot. I called you a sucker for this exact reason. You actually believe they took 4 years to create this game and could not add parachutes and tanks to begin with? Let's see, they added pointless sh*t like T.V, internet, and dating, f*cking sh*t that you can do in real life. Yea, 4 years really went into useful sh*t to play with. And all of a sudden, coincidentally this being the last DLC for IV, a Dominican born street thug can now parachute out of a plane. You really are that dumb huh? Yea, it wouldn't have fit with an ex Eastern European war vet, right?

I can't believe people like you are this stupid and naive.

 

It doesn't take 4 years to add content dumbass. You have too be really slow. There are more weapons in the past GTAs than in IV. That being before DLCs. How naive are you? Think about it. You're a developer. Microsoft wave money at you to create 2 DLCs for 50mill. Now you think to yourself. Hmmm, I want to make a kick ass game but I need kick ass DLCs, how the f*ck am I going to do that? Well, we can't have toooo much weapons in the original, because what are we going to put in the DLCs? And we can't put tooooo much fun because we have to make the DLC have extras too. Oh, I see, why not half ass this game and add the rest seperatly later on and say that it's 'extra content'. It's a f*cking scheme to make money, idiots. DLCs are just ways to make you pull more money. They're not f*cking free, they cost money. A good size revenu scheme.

Edited September 3, 2009 by buffalosoulj4h20

[Slamman]

I'm sorry that was not what you had in mind, but did you read the reasons given as well... It is as Houser stated, for better or worse. And I think they did throw us a bone, after all the reaction, and it's been a build up of frustration from game players, but not really harming the franchise so much.

 

They always take things out as they offer up new ones in the series, it makes the old ones have some stand alone value, as I stated before, despite them getting old technically. The company wants there to be some relevance for picking up the old game again.

 

I don't want all the weight to go into that however, partly it was due to finding new ways to compress highly complex coding down, if you recall the sound engineering process from Vice City, Craig Conner said that it took all their coding expertise to get things to fit and stream affectively, and with each new game, that challenge NEVER lessens up.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Slamman

[buffalosoulj4h20]

Really. Look how the deal played out. Microsoft made a deal with Rockstar to make DLCs for 50 mill. The catch was that they couldn't let Sony have it. Do you think Rockstar said, ''Well, uh, gee what about our Sony fanbase?'', no, more like, ''Gimme that f*cking money are you crazy?''. If Sony came up to them it would be the same sh*t. It's just business. No giving in to th masses, because Sonyboys ain't getting it, it's business.

 

Remember, a businessman does not care about a broke customer. It's just the way it is. Whoever has the most money, the business man will follow.

Edited September 3, 2009 by buffalosoulj4h20

[Niall]

Wow, how long can this go on? I actually agree with a bit of both bob and buffalo, I think RN worked very hard up to the last minute, and adding some of the BOGT features would have caused further delays. Although I'm sure at more than one meeting things like "Let's get all the basic gameplay foundation done and we'll worry about crazy s**t later" were said. And let's say all this stuff was in IV, what would they have to do to deliver to MS $50mill worth of DLC, poop sprayers? Ultimately I blame Sony for all this, if they wouldn't have passed on the exclusivity deal in the first place we would have the IV we all want. I worry about the future of GTA.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Niall

[Slamman]

Really. Look how the deal played out. Microsoft made a deal with Rockstar to make DLCs for 50 mill. The catch was that they couldn't let Sony have it. Do you think Rockstar said, ''Well, uh, gee what about our Sony fanbase?'', no, more like, ''Gimme that f*cking money are you crazy?''. If Sony came up to them it would be the same sh*t. It's just business. No giving in to th masses, because Sonyboys ain't getting it, it's business.

 

Remember, a businessman does not care about a broke customer. It's just the way it is. Whoever has the most money, the business man will follow.

If you're asking or saying, "did they lose sleep over it?"

It doesn't appear so, and had I solitary console, I'd be speculating over PC release, I suppose! haha

[buffalosoulj4h20]

 

Really. Look how the deal played out. Microsoft made a deal with Rockstar to make DLCs for 50 mill. The catch was that they couldn't let Sony have it. Do you think Rockstar said, ''Well, uh, gee what about our Sony fanbase?'', no, more like, ''Gimme that f*cking money are you crazy?''. If Sony came up to them it would be the same sh*t. It's just business. No giving in to th masses, because Sonyboys ain't getting it, it's business.

 

Remember, a businessman does not care about a broke customer. It's just the way it is. Whoever has the most money, the business man will follow.

If you're asking or saying, "did they lose sleep over it?"

It doesn't appear so, and had I solitary console, I'd be speculating over PC release, I suppose! haha

Haha, hell no they didn't lose sleep.

 

And the only reason I keep explaining this is because people quote me and they don't seem to understand so I guess I have to keep explaining to these people.

 

100th reply and first on 6th page woot!

Edited September 3, 2009 by buffalosoulj4h20

[CookPassBabtridge]

@Niall: You can only really blame R* to be fair. It's their series and they could have chosen to just implement what they knew fans would want, and still sold the same number of copies, without any deals on the side. I also wonder about future GTAs, if this is going to be the trend now

[johnwelshmorris5]

I agree completely about the features,i mean come on who the hell in the right mind would find dating or watching T.V on your T.V remotely exciting baffles me.....

 

yet things like a haircut or more clothes....or something was left out....

[Niall]

 

@Niall: You can only really blame R* to be fair. It's their series and they could have chosen to just implement what they knew fans would want, and still sold the same number of copies, without any deals on the side. I also wonder about future GTAs, if this is going to be the trend now

I see your point, but like it's been said R* is a business and i would guess that after Sony said no thanks, their "we want more money" engine kicked in, making the offer from MS irresistible. I wonder if MS tried to make IV Xbox only. But being mad at Rockstar is like being mad at a sex addict for gettin it on after dropping him in a pile of naked and oiled bikini models. What would you expect?

[Magic_Al]

It wasn't just Microsoft's money that pulled Rockstar in. It was the fact that at the time this was going down it looked like Microsoft really had a next-gen console coming out and Sony had vaporware. Sony got off to a really slow start by trying to shoot for the moon with technology that didn't exist, thinking they could play tortoise to MS's hare and win in the end. Microsoft was more practical and designed the 360 to be not the greatest but good enough, just like Microsoft designs everything (I'm a Mac guy so my MS praise will be limited to the Xbox).

 

So here was the deal. San Andreas was done, Rockstar started having ideas for the next GTA, and they needed a platform to build it on. The PS3 literally did not exist at this point, not even a prototype. Neither did the 360, but here's where Microsoft pulled a rabbit out of their hat: they wrote a virtualization of the 360 that ran (ironically) on a Power Mac G5 (coincidentally similar hardware architecture to the 360 which, again ironically, Apple has since abandoned for Intel standards). Microsoft shipped those rigged-up MacBox 360s by the truckload to game companies like Rockstar so they could start making games. Naturally this showed Rockstar Microsoft was serious because meanwhile all they got from Sony was promises. Sony could not do the same thing because there was nothing like the PS3 to use as a substitute. Rockstar could not say no to Microsoft because the alternative was waiting for Sony and businesses can't wait, they have to do business.

[Slomojoe]

I agree completely about the features,i mean come on who the hell in the right mind would find dating or watching T.V on your T.V remotely exciting baffles me.....

 

yet things like a haircut or more clothes....or something was left out....

So you're saying that haircuts and working out at a gym are OMG SO EXCITING!!1?

[OysterBarron]

I agree completely about the features,i mean come on who the hell in the right mind would find dating or watching T.V on your T.V remotely exciting baffles me.....

 

yet things like a haircut or more clothes....or something was left out....

So you're saying that haircuts and working out at a gym are OMG SO EXCITING!!1?

they are certainyly more engaging than watching you character watch TV in a virtual world. at least you had to do something with the controller while working out.

[Niall]

Thanks Magic_Al, I thought Sony had a dev kit out right after MS, I didn't realize the 360 one was out that much before the PS one. Do those ever get leaked to the public? The dev kits I mean.

[johnwelshmorris5]

It wasn't just Microsoft's money that pulled Rockstar in. It was the fact that at the time this was going down it looked like Microsoft really had a next-gen console coming out and Sony had vaporware. Sony got off to a really slow start by trying to shoot for the moon with technology that didn't exist, thinking they could play tortoise to MS's hare and win in the end. Microsoft was more practical and designed the 360 to be not the greatest but good enough, just like Microsoft designs everything (I'm a Mac guy so my MS praise will be limited to the Xbox).

 

So here was the deal. San Andreas was done, Rockstar started having ideas for the next GTA, and they needed a platform to build it on. The PS3 literally did not exist at this point, not even a prototype. Neither did the 360, but here's where Microsoft pulled a rabbit out of their hat: they wrote a virtualization of the 360 that ran (ironically) on a Power Mac G5 (coincidentally similar hardware architecture to the 360 which, again ironically, Apple has since abandoned for Intel standards). Microsoft shipped those rigged-up MacBox 360s by the truckload to game companies like Rockstar so they could start making games. Naturally this showed Rockstar Microsoft was serious because meanwhile all they got from Sony was promises. Sony could not do the same thing because there was nothing like the PS3 to use as a substitute. Rockstar could not say no to Microsoft because the alternative was waiting for Sony and businesses can't wait, they have to do business.

Thats true,PS3 feels dead to alot of people.

[johnwelshmorris5]

Bumping this thread as i feel it`s important.

[Rhoda]

Bumping this thread as i feel it`s important.

It's going to be bumped anyway, this is the busiest section on GTAForums at the minute. That was a completely un-necessary post.

[EnchantedX360]

Those calling others idiots for taking the words of Sam and Dan Houser over some 35 year old guy living in his moms basement concerning the GTA IV franchise need some sort of evaluation!

 

Kind of sounds like those tools telling you aliens exist and then failing to give you any real evidence but call you stupid for not believing them!

[buffalosoulj4h20]

And those you actually believe that they couldn't add parachutes in the original game that have been in developement for 4 years ( seems like T.V and bowling made it though ) are Rockstar's favorite consumers. Money spending suckers.

[epoxi]

I always trust R* to make a GTA game worth paying the full RRP for (more than can be said for most games).

 

My only problem is the exclusive content: now they've had a dip in Microsoft's wallet...where will they draw the line?

[johnwelshmorris5]

And those you actually believe that they couldn't add parachutes in the original game that have been in developement for 4 years ( seems like T.V and bowling made it though ) are Rockstar's favorite consumers. Money spending suckers.

Yea seems that way.shame on R*.

[EnchantedX360]

 

And those you actually believe that they couldn't add parachutes in the original game that have been in developement for 4 years ( seems like T.V and bowling made it though ) are Rockstar's favorite consumers. Money spending suckers. 

No parachutes, fight club, bouncer mini game, cars, interiors, etc... Could have been absent from GTA IV (vanilla) for any reason. Although I have no problem personally believing it was of financial significance to wait, however that along with any other theory can not be proven either which way we go about it!

 

Could have been money, could have been that they needed it for the 3rd episode to keep it filled with content and abilities (same with TL&D) and heck it could have even been that R* North made a last minute decision to bring back features they originally did not want for GTA IV (because they had envisioned more sense of realism in GTA IV).

 

Either way, telling people to stop being stupid or they're idiots when quoting the Housers (who seem to have earned people's trust and respect over the years) still sounds like those lame bastards who have no clue (and like those wankers in the alien example given before).

 

You're not 35 and living in your mom's (or worse yet your grandmother's) basement are you dude? I didn't mean to strike a nerve if that's the case.

[buffalosoulj4h20]

 

And those you actually believe that they couldn't add parachutes in the original game that have been in developement for 4 years ( seems like T.V and bowling made it though ) are Rockstar's favorite consumers. Money spending suckers. 

No parachutes, fight club, bouncer mini game, cars, interiors, etc... Could have been absent from GTA IV (vanilla) for any reason. Although I have no problem personally believing it was of financial significance to wait, however that along with any other theory can not be proven either which way we go about it!

 

Could have been money, could have been that they needed it for the 3rd episode to keep it filled with content and abilities (same with TL&D) and heck it could have even been that R* North made a last minute decision to bring back features they originally did not want for GTA IV (because they had envisioned more sense of realism in GTA IV).

 

Either way, telling people to stop being stupid or they're idiots when quoting the Housers (who seem to have earned people's trust and respect over the years) still sounds like those lame bastards who have no clue (and like those wankers in the alien example given before).

 

You're not 35 and living in your mom's (or worse yet your grandmother's) basement are you dude? I didn't mean to strike a nerve if that's the case.

Strike a nerve? I didn't even read your post. You seem to have an obsession with where people live and by the way I'm 18 living with my sister, but thanks for the insight of your life though .

 

About your claim that I'm striking a conspiracy, how is it a conspiracy when common sense is all you need? I already explained the situation with you. I told you if you were a developer, you would want to take out x number of extras to add it to the next x number games. It's happened before you dumbf*ck. In GTA 3 we couldn't fly helicopters or ride bikes. In Vice City we couldn't swim. They don't add every feature in one game, so that they can add it later on to make it seem new, f*cking retard. This is what happened, except now the ps3/PC players can't get it. How is it ''given in to the masses'' if you're not including PC and PS3 gamers?

Edited September 5, 2009 by buffalosoulj4h20

[Leo Colt]

I didn't even read your post.

This says it all. If you are in a debate, and won't even bother to hear what the other side has to say, then you should just STFU and GTFO.

[buffalosoulj4h20]

I didn't even read your post.

This says it all. If you are in a debate, and won't even bother to hear what the other side has to say, then you should just STFU and GTFO.

His first post on this page, the one that did not quote me. I didn't read it up until now when I logged back on.

 

Ironic.

[bobgtafan]

This whole thread as gone nowhere since the begining. Quite frankly you can either beleive

 

R* didn't hold out on content and simply didn't have time to put in parachutes and such.

R* lied and wanted to chrange people for things like parachutes and such.

 

To make things worse thiers no edivence for either side to prove their point per say because in the end it all boils down to how long you think it took R* to really finish GTA 4 and that is impossible to ever find out. That said this topic has become useless really and the whole arguement will go nowhere.

Edited September 5, 2009 by bobgtafan