L.A. Noire

[nlitement]

 

I dunno, it's just stupid how Mason could know who eveyone was and just plant evidence without them them ever realising. Also, why does no one go crazy and even try to debate they didn't do it. They just get charged, thrown in a cell and they're like "Oh no, they caught me, derp." Then, even though it can't be classed as a plothole, the ending of the desk is just stupid. "We killed the Dahlia murderer but let's keep it quiet because he's the half-brother of one of America's most influential politicians."

But you should replay the first mission and you'll see how it fits into the whole thing about how c*rrupt the cops are. =P

[AnotherDave]

 

I dunno, it's just stupid how Mason could know who eveyone was and just plant evidence without them them ever realising. Also, why does no one go crazy and even try to debate they didn't do it. They just get charged, thrown in a cell and they're like "Oh no, they caught me, derp." Then, even though it can't be classed as a plothole, the ending of the desk is just stupid. "We killed the Dahlia murderer but let's keep it quiet because he's the half-brother of one of America's most influential politicians."

Convenient, yes, but definitely not plot holes. Most of the suspects had other reasons to be wary of the police and so would have a reason to run and/or keep quiet until they've spoken to their lawyer. As for the cover up, that's the kind of thing that could actually happen.

[post]

yahtzee reviewed LA Noire today..

 

Zero Punctuation

 

synopsis - encouraging to have a major release that's not another mindless FPS clone & actually revolves around a story, but didn't like having his hand held through the game. wonder why he didn't figure to turn that stuff off.. that and gripes about the body animations and typical rockstar driving physics. overall not a bad review from a guy who hates just about every game other than silent hill and portal.

 

 

[The Nefarious]

 

Homicide spoilers, just to be clear.

 

@MOB Mason was specifically giving the police the impression that a certain person was the murderer, it was part of his game, part of the test. Making his appearance similar to those he wanted the police to believe it was - ata passing glance at least - would be a sensible thing to do in case of witnesses.

 

With that in mind, what do we actually see in the opening cutscenes? The Red Lipstick Murder shows the killer to be a man who looks like Mason and who definitely isn't Mendez as the shape of the face is different. The killer shown in The Golden Butterfly wears a hat similar to Eli Rooney's, but there's not much else to suggest it's him and nothing at all that shows it isn't Mason.

 

There's nothing to go on in The Silk Stocking Murder, but it switches up a bit in the cutscene of The White Shoe Slaying as Stuart Ackerman is almost certainly the man shown. We don't see him do anything except watch the victim get off a bus, though.

 

The Studio Secretary Murder shows the killer's face reletively clearly. It could be Grosvenor McCaffrey, but also looks like Garrett Mason. The two men look fairly similar anyway, though, and again there's nothing that shows the killer isn't Mason.

 

The messages written on the victims bodies also ties the murders to one another, as do the Percy Shelley references. The murder weapons being in the possession of certain suspects isn't really anything more than circumstantial evidence and often overly convenient. Throughout the cases you were always trying to make a suspect fit the evidence rather than having anything concrete on them.

 

 

@Firefly I'd be interested to hear more about these plot holes. I haven't noticed anything too bad myself.

You make a good case man... ever thought about being a lawyer?? haha

 

 

 

If you look at the killer in this video the shape of his face is actually similar to Mendez although he does look like Mason I must admit.

 

As Firefly8000 said though it is highly unlikely that Mason could be in a position to plant evidence etc. to frame somebody well. If you look at The Studio Secretary Murder, McCaffery tries almost sucessfully to frame Tiernan. They know each other, he knows Tiernan had a motive (jealousy over Evelyn's admiration of McCaffery) and Tiernan's intoxication means that he could easily convince him that he killed Evelyn. In fact the case is pretty hard to call until the phonecall detailing McCaffery's past violence towards women and Tiernan's emotional admission of uncertainty which makes the framing angle clear. That's the kind of things that are required for a good stitch up.

 

Mason (to our knowledge) didn't know any of the Suspects, although he did know the victims from the various bars where he worked. In order to get the clues used in The Quarter Moon Murders all he would have to do is steal them at some point (before or after the murder)... or buy them (in the case of the medallion). There is evidence of a break in at two of the victim's homes so he could have broken in and taken their belongings. The only thing that doesn't really fit about this explanation is how he would have gotten to each of the scenes before the police. Although he could have easily been following the victims all night after they left the bar where he was working which would have left him open to stealing their jewellry in order to make it look like he was the killer and string the LAPD along in dramatic fashion for media attention. Mason is labelled as an underachiever.. which could be the reasoning behind him chasing the fame attached to being known as the Black Dahlia Killer. If he were just a theif then that could also rule him out as being the BD killer too since he could have simply just swiped Elizabeth Short's social security card... although that might be taking it a little bit too far.

 

Either way there is probabal cause to put away all of the men charged during the homicide cases and not feel too bad about putting Mason to sleep either. If I was Donnelly I woulda just let them all get the gas chamber in San Quintin.. the evidence against them is undeniable and as Firefly said none of them actually vehemently denied it so they must be guilty.. let the bastards fry.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Money Over Bullshit

[Rockworm]

yahtzee reviewed LA Noire today..

 

Zero Punctuation

 

synopsis - encouraging to have a major release that's not another mindless FPS clone & actually revolves around a story, but didn't like having his hand held through the game. wonder why he didn't figure to turn that stuff off.. that and gripes about the body animations and typical rockstar driving physics. overall not a bad review from a guy who hates just about every game other than silent hill and portal.

Wait.................. I'm supposed to take Zero Punctuation seriously?

 

Wow I learn something new every day.

[Pat]

and just plant evidence without them them ever realising

Not true, as I'm sure you remember, in The Golden Butterfly Mr. Moller is seen burning evidence after you talk to the neighbor. After you catch him and ask him what he was doing, all he tells you (or all he told me, at least) was "you wouldn't believe me if I told you." He found the evidence after it had been planted, unlike the other suspects, and tried to destroy it because he knew the police would not believe him if he claimed that he was being framed.

[AnotherDave]

@MOB The idea that the killer isn't Mason ignores the undeniable links between the killings. All the victims frequented bars and were at bars on the night of their death (on its own this is circumstantial, but further corroborates other evidence), at least one message provided a definite link between at least two of the murders (the specifics escape me at the moment) and the killer pawned Moller's wedding and engagement rings - as proved by the Shelley link. That makes it unfeasible that there could be more than one killer, given the fact that he led the police on a merry dance involving evidence from every case.

 

There are two cases where the outcome is slightly dubious and could suggest a different killer; the first is The Golden Butterfly, which takes place before the temp barman link is brought up, so the evidence seems reletively compelling for both Rooney and Moller despite not being concrete for either. The second is The Studio Secretary Murder, where - assuming you get the questioning of suspects right - it's obvious McCaffrey is trying to frame Tiernan. The explanation for this could be that McCaffrey realised that he himself was being framed and looked to pass the buck.

 

Completing the questioning of McCaffrey in a different order can prompt him to lose his temper, making him look incredibly guilty, and I believe it also rules out the chance of Tiernan admitting he was drunk and doesn't know if he killed Evelyn. Still, there's no actual proof that either killed her.

 

I don't see how it can be assumed that Mason wouldn't be in a position to plant evidence, and it doesn't hold up as an argument against the evidence that conclusively links some, if not all, of the murders beyond copycats.

 

My thought was that the murder weapon in Mendez's apartment was far too conveniently placed. Why would he keep it, let alone leave that box full of guilt on display in his own bedroom? The same was true in other cases as well, evidence - often the murder weapon, covered in blood - is right there waiting to be found in a place that makes the suspect look ludicrously guilty when the first thing anybody would do is get rid of it.

 

Another thing I've just thought about is the Bamba Club table lighter. That's not something that would really leave the club under normal circumstances, and provides the only link to the club - and to Mason at that time. The fact that it's a puzzle is slso fitting, it was the first baby step in the much larger and more complex game that Mason was setting out for the police.

 

I can't believe I just wrote all that at half past one in the morning...

Edited June 2, 2011 by something_else

[Firefly8000]

 

and just plant evidence without them them ever realising

Not true, as I'm sure you remember, in The Golden Butterfly Mr. Moller is seen burning evidence after you talk to the neighbor. After you catch him and ask him what he was doing, all he tells you (or all he told me, at least) was "you wouldn't believe me if I told you." He found the evidence after it had been planted, unlike the other suspects, and tried to destroy it because he knew the police would not believe him if he claimed that he was being framed.

That was unrelated.

 

I remember him saying that he'd been hunting rabbits and ended up with blood on his shoe, and he didn't think the police would believe him, so he tried to burn them.

 

The stuff I mean are things like the overalls and rope in Hugo Moller's car, the socket wrench in Mendez's place, or the jewelery box in the fruit market. Things like that, stuff that was found in their possession that linked directly to the crime.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Firefly8000

[Finn 7 five 11]

I was really psyched for this game since like October last year, but i don't really like it that much, sure its good, but i am not totally hooked on the game.

Well each to their own i suppose.

[Algonquin Assassin]

I bought the game last night (and noticed it was on three disks for the 360) and did the first few general cases before you get promoted to detective and then the first two as a detective.

 

I'm terrible with guessing if they're telling the truth or not. Sometimes it's obvious because they'll look away when you're interrogating and act kind of suspicious, but sometimes I have no idea if they're telling the truth or if I should doubt them.

 

Fun game so far, though.

Trust me the game will kick you in the balls hard later on. Later in the game the suspects are a lot more calculating (Probably because some are career criminals), so it's even harder to tell.

 

It's a nice challenge though.

[darthYENIK]

Got it today, have been playing it all night. I like it. A perfect candidate for episodic content.

[Linki]

Got 5* on all cases (played it through black and white, no hints this time) and finished all 40 street crimes. Feels good man.

[WF the Hobgoblin]

yahtzee reviewed LA Noire today..

 

Zero Punctuation

 

synopsis - encouraging to have a major release that's not another mindless FPS clone & actually revolves around a story, but didn't like having his hand held through the game. wonder why he didn't figure to turn that stuff off.. that and gripes about the body animations and typical rockstar driving physics. overall not a bad review from a guy who hates just about every game other than silent hill and portal.

Wait.................. I'm supposed to take Zero Punctuation seriously?

 

Wow I learn something new every day.

I enjoy watching Yahtzee's reviews but purely for the comedy factor. Although admittedly, like most things, it's not quit as funny as it used to be.

 

Like most of his reviews, I actually agree with most of his criticisms of la noire, but i simply consider them to be minor flaws in an otherwise great game. I'm sure he always exaggerates his hatred of the games he reviews anyway.

[Rockworm]

yahtzee reviewed LA Noire today..

 

Zero Punctuation

 

synopsis - encouraging to have a major release that's not another mindless FPS clone & actually revolves around a story, but didn't like having his hand held through the game. wonder why he didn't figure to turn that stuff off.. that and gripes about the body animations and typical rockstar driving physics. overall not a bad review from a guy who hates just about every game other than silent hill and portal.

Wait.................. I'm supposed to take Zero Punctuation seriously?

 

Wow I learn something new every day.

I enjoy watching Yahtzee's reviews but purely for the comedy factor. Although admittedly, like most things, it's not quit as funny as it used to be.

 

Like most of his reviews, I actually agree with most of his criticisms of la noire, but i simply consider them to be minor flaws in an otherwise great game. I'm sure he always exaggerates his hatred of the games he reviews anyway.

Yeah I try to find the funny but sometimes i just /facepalm his review on Mortal Kombat just made me cringe.

 

He flat out decided it was irrelevant from the start even mocking it like he was reviewing the very first one.

 

Apperantly everything has to be brilliant pieces of art or its not worth his time

I rather think he's joking because he'd piss me off to much otherwise.

[OchyGTA]

I am borrowing the game off a mate, just completed first Vice case and it says please insert disc 3, which one is that, he only gave me two

 

He's not given you Disc 3, you should inform him and ask for Disc 3, otherwise you can't finish the game.

Ahhh, i assume thats the install disc but I can't get it now as he is in Portugal for a week

[EmagmaLak]

Was off work yesterday so i spent hours playing, Completed all the Traffic cases with a 5 star rating, completed both DLC cases, completed all street crimes and achieved maximum rank! Not a bad days work!

 

And is it just me or is Roy Earle a dead Ringer for Kevin Bacon?

 

Roy Earle:

 

Kevin Bacon:

Edited June 2, 2011 by tms_junk

[AnotherDave]

@OchyGTA You can install all three discs, but it's not required.

 

@tms_junk Looks more like Adam Harrington if you ask me

 

[OchyGTA]

@OchyGTA You can install all three discs, but it's not required.

 

Yh but the problem is he only gave me two disc's. I thought it was an Install disc that you don't need, and 2 game disc's. Does this mean there are four discs?

[AnotherDave]

Nope, three discs total. You can play the game directly from the discs or install them to the HDD, but you will need all three to complete the game.

[The Nefarious]

@MOB The idea that the killer isn't Mason ignores the undeniable links between the killings. All the victims frequented bars and were at bars on the night of their death (on its own this is circumstantial, but further corroborates other evidence), at least one message provided a definite link between at least two of the murders (the specifics escape me at the moment) and the killer pawned Moller's wedding and engagement rings - as proved by the Shelley link. That makes it unfeasible that there could be more than one killer, given the fact that he led the police on a merry dance involving evidence from every case.

 

There are two cases where the outcome is slightly dubious and could suggest a different killer; the first is The Golden Butterfly, which takes place before the temp barman link is brought up, so the evidence seems reletively compelling for both Rooney and Moller despite not being concrete for either. The second is The Studio Secretary Murder, where - assuming you get the questioning of suspects right - it's obvious McCaffrey is trying to frame Tiernan. The explanation for this could be that McCaffrey realised that he himself was being framed and looked to pass the buck.

 

Completing the questioning of McCaffrey in a different order can prompt him to lose his temper, making him look incredibly guilty, and I believe it also rules out the chance of Tiernan admitting he was drunk and doesn't know if he killed Evelyn. Still, there's no actual proof that either killed her.

 

I don't see how it can be assumed that Mason wouldn't be in a position to plant evidence, and it doesn't hold up as an argument against the evidence that conclusively links some, if not all, of the murders beyond copycats.

 

My thought was that the murder weapon in Mendez's apartment was far too conveniently placed. Why would he keep it, let alone leave that box full of guilt on display in his own bedroom? The same was true in other cases as well, evidence - often the murder weapon, covered in blood - is right there waiting to be found in a place that makes the suspect look ludicrously guilty when the first thing anybody would do is get rid of it.

 

Another thing I've just thought about is the Bamba Club table lighter. That's not something that would really leave the club under normal circumstances, and provides the only link to the club - and to Mason at that time. The fact that it's a puzzle is slso fitting, it was the first baby step in the much larger and more complex game that Mason was setting out for the police.

 

I can't believe I just wrote all that at half past one in the morning...

@something_else

 

You're not really disproving my arguements though.. the fact still remains that Mason could have came into possesion of the Jewellry simply by stealing it. And there is no plausible way for the murder weapons and other items that link the suspects to the crimes to have come into their possesion. Even when you question them about these items they don't deny knowing how they ended up in their homes.. if they were innocent the least they could say is "I don't know what your talking about" when presented with a piece of evidence. The reason the evidence is so easy to find is simply to make the cases feasable for the player. In a lot of real murder cases police officers have to scour a fifty mile radius looking through rivers and bushes in order to find hard evidence... that would just make the cases way too tedious and not much fun.

 

There are definite links between Mason and the murders that's why we find the revelation in the last homicide case so easy to digest. I'm not saying that Mason 100% didn't carry out the murders and as far as the game's story is concerned he did.. I'm just saying that there are many holes and inconsistencies which throw reasonable doubt on his guilt.. which a really good investigator would have explored after Mason's death for their own personal closure at least.

[Algonquin Assassin]

I've noticed so many characters in LA Noire look like those actors you typically see in a lot of movies, but can't put a name to their face.

[Dnero]

 

I've noticed so many characters in LA Noire look like those actors you typically see in a lot of movies, but can't put a name to their face.

I instantly recognized Greg Grunberg from The Golden Butterfly case. Maybe it's because I watched too many Heroes

[AnotherDave]

 

You're not really disproving my arguements though.. the fact still remains that Mason could have came into possesion of the Jewellry simply by stealing it. And there is no plausible way for the murder weapons and other items that link the suspects to the crimes to have come into their possesion.

Is Mason entering the people's homes/places of work and leaving incriminating evidence there not plausible? He was looking to test the police after all, what better way to do that than give them an air tight case (on the surface at least) and see if they could uncover the truth?

 

If he had just stolen the jewelry and not killed anybody, that still gives him opportunity and probably means for every single murder as he would have to have come into contact with the victims between the time they were last seen and the time the police arrived at the scene. There is also no evidence at all to prove that anybody else could have committed the murders, it was always a case of who the evidence appeared to fit best rather than ever providing a conclusive answer.

 

 

The reason the evidence is so easy to find is simply to make the cases feasable for the player. In a lot of real murder cases police officers have to scour a fifty mile radius looking through rivers and bushes in order to find hard evidence... that would just make the cases way too tedious and not much fun.

I'm of the opposite opinion. I think the fact that the suspects often kept quiet when accused, or didn't try to make it overly obvious they weren't the killer was artistic license to keep things ambiguous for the player. The evidence being in plain sight and ludicrously easy to find was very much part of the story and not a mechanic to avoid frustration.

 

 

I'm just saying that there are many holes and inconsistencies which throw reasonable doubt on his guilt.. which a really good investigator would have explored after Mason's death for their own personal closure at least.

I completely disagree that there's any reasonable doubt simply because the murders can be linked to one another. The only way that could be the case is if one man had committed all of them, and the only man who had the means and opportunity was Garrett Mason. His motive isn't something that's readily explainable beyond mental illness. I agree about further lines of investigation, though. That's one thing that would have made the game a lot better in my opinion. I would certainly have chased up the agency Mason was employed by during the third case, if not before, as he was a prime suspect for me at that point. I'm sure a more thorough look at him would show he owned, or had access to, a brown Ford coupe and was working at the bars the victims were at on the night of their respective murders, but alas that wasn't an option.

Edited June 2, 2011 by something_else

[Der_Don]

I've noticed so many characters in LA Noire look like those actors you typically see in a lot of movies, but can't put a name to their face.

There's this one bartender (don't know which case it was) and I'm almost 100 % sure that it was the bartender "Carl" from McLaren's pub in How I Met Your Mother. It took me some seconds to finally recognize him though.

[WF the Hobgoblin]

I've noticed so many characters in LA Noire look like those actors you typically see in a lot of movies, but can't put a name to their face.

There's this one bartender (don't know which case it was) and I'm almost 100 % sure that it was the bartender "Carl" from McLaren's pub in How I Met Your Mother. It took me some seconds to finally recognize him though.

Yes most of the actors in this game, while not exactly big movie stars, are in a lot of television and films.

 

I'm still trying to think of where I know the coroner from.

I suppose if you watch certain shows you'll know certain actors. Take Biggs for example, a lot of people say they think of him as that cop from The Dark Knight, but I'll always think of him as Holtz from Angel and one of the terrorists in 24 season 4. John Noble from Fringe as well, but to me, he's the Steward of Gondor.

 

Was finishing of the street crimes that I had missed last night and finally got to meet "Ted" Theodore Logan's father.

 

[The Nefarious]

You're not really disproving my arguements though.. the fact still remains that Mason could have came into possesion of the Jewellry simply by stealing it. And there is no plausible way for the murder weapons and other items that link the suspects to the crimes to have come into their possesion.

Is Mason entering the people's homes/places of work and leaving incriminating evidence there not plausible? He was looking to test the police after all, what better way to do that than give them an air tight case (on the surface at least) and see if they could uncover the truth?

 

If he had just stolen the jewelry and not killed anybody, that still gives him opportunity and probably means for every single murder as he would have to have come into contact with the victims between the time they were last seen and the time the police arrived at the scene. There is also no evidence at all to prove that anybody else could have committed the murders, it was always a case of who the evidence appeared to fit best rather than ever providing a conclusive answer.

 

 

The reason the evidence is so easy to find is simply to make the cases feasable for the player. In a lot of real murder cases police officers have to scour a fifty mile radius looking through rivers and bushes in order to find hard evidence... that would just make the cases way too tedious and not much fun.

I'm of the opposite opinion. I think the fact that the suspects often kept quiet when accused, or didn't try to make it overly obvious they weren't the killer was artistic license to keep things ambiguous for the player. The evidence being in plain sight and ludicrously easy to find was very much part of the story and not a mechanic to avoid frustration.

 

 

I'm just saying that there are many holes and inconsistencies which throw reasonable doubt on his guilt.. which a really good investigator would have explored after Mason's death for their own personal closure at least.

I completely disagree that there's any reasonable doubt simply because the murders can be linked to one another. The only way that could be the case is if one man had committed all of them, and the only man who had the means and opportunity was Garrett Mason. His motive isn't something that's readily explainable beyond mental illness. I agree about further lines of investigation, though. That's one thing that would have made the game a lot better in my opinion. I would certainly have chased up the agency Mason was employed by during the third case, if not before, as he was a prime suspect for me at that point. I'm sure a more thorough look at him would show he owned, or had access to, a brown Ford coupe and was working at the bars the victims were at on the night of their respective murders, but alas that wasn't an option.

The murders were well publicised so it was open season for any copycat who wanted to replicate elements of the BD in a murder.

 

I have no desire to keep this going so I'm going to say nothing further and end it here if that's ok with you. I think the general concensus is that the homicide cases (particularly the final one) were handled somewhat shoddily. It's actually quite disappointing as a few minor adjustments could have made the homicide desk great. I feel all of the desks actually leave a lot to be desired despite it being a really good game overall. I suppose it is hard to please everybody though and minor disappointment seems to be par for the course with every game that is built up in the way L.A. Noire was.

[AnotherDave]

It was the non-publicised elements that remained consistent that I was talking about, things that are mentioned by Phelps that couldn't be known to a copycat, but the debate has certainly run its course. I completely agree that some relatively minor changes couild have made the Homicide desk much better than it was - I was pretty underwhelmed with that part of the storyline.

Edited June 2, 2011 by something_else

[Sunrise Driver]

I'll post some already known info in "black lines" thread.

 

A few days ago ESRB "announced" another game - Witcher 2. Surely they removed "X360" after few hours. But...

 

CD Projekt just made a pre-E3 announcement that...I think you guessed already what they've announced.

 

So LA Noire is coming to PC 100%. Everyone who says otherwise is a stupid dumb retard.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Street Mix

[The Nefarious]

I'll post some already known info in "black lines" thread.

 

A few days ago ESRB "announced" another game - Witcher 2. Surely they removed "X360" after few hours. But...

 

CD Projekt just made a pre-E3 announcement that...I think you guessed already what they've announced.

 

So LA Noire is coming to PC 100%. Everyone who says otherwise is a stupid dumb retard.

I really hope this is true... only PC graphics can really do the motion scan technology justice.

[Rockworm]

I've noticed so many characters in LA Noire look like those actors you typically see in a lot of movies, but can't put a name to their face.

There's this one bartender (don't know which case it was) and I'm almost 100 % sure that it was the bartender "Carl" from McLaren's pub in How I Met Your Mother. It took me some seconds to finally recognize him though.

Yes most of the actors in this game, while not exactly big movie stars, are in a lot of television and films.

 

I'm still trying to think of where I know the coroner from.

I suppose if you watch certain shows you'll know certain actors. Take Biggs for example, a lot of people say they think of him as that cop from The Dark Knight, but I'll always think of him as Holtz from Angel and one of the terrorists in 24 season 4. John Noble from Fringe as well, but to me, he's the Steward of Gondor.

 

Was finishing of the street crimes that I had missed last night and finally got to meet "Ted" Theodore Logan's father.

LOL thats how I saw it I don't know if you noticed in one of the Arson cases theres one of the guys working on a house who you question for like no more than a minute but its Vincent Kartheiser who is known for being on Mad Men but I remember him from Angel as Connor who shared the same season with the dude who played Biggs aka Holtz