6 US soldiers killed in Afghanistan

[Breaking Bohan]

6 US soldiers killed in Afghanistan

CNN - 8 minutes ago

 

Story Highlights

•6 U.S. soldiers killed by roadside bomb in northern Afghanistan

 

•Taliban claim responsibility for attack on a U.S. military vehicle

 

•U.S. Marines facing off against insurgents in southern town of Khan Neshin

 

•Marines surround compound, holding fire due to civilians present

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/0...arine.standoff/

-----------------------

 

Does anyone have a suggestion when or how this war will end? At this point, I imagine it will basically mirror what happened in Iraq.

 

 

[CryptReaperDorian]

This stopped being a war years ago. It's more of a struggle and riots or something like that. This is just going to keep going on until our soldiers are pulled out of the Middle East. After that, we will probably get attacked again and it'll all start again. Then this time the government will probably get even more corrupt and use full military force on the Middle East. The question is: When does this sh*t really stop?

[Otter]

It has been mirroring what's happening in Iraq since before Iraq even happened.

 

We lost a boy there this week too. It's a god-damned shame that the Taliban are still strutting about like they own the place - but hey, it's not like we did anything to stop it. We blew the sh*t out of the place and left the people no one to rely on but them.

[manofpeace]

Well, considering how the army is pretty much sending most of its troops there, some over Russia so they can get there faster, probably had something to do with why they were killed. While sad, with so many soldiers there and the Taliban being so nearby, something would happen eventually.

 

At this point, several governments are actually backing the US in their efforts to get the Taliban out of their countries so it will probably be faster, if only by a couple years.

 

With that said, I'm not so sure we need a topic for every few soldiers that is KIA. This is war, it happens.

[Oxidizer]

No disrespect to those that have died but the U.S. and British militaries are bloody crap if they can't even stop a bunch of extremists. What would we do if an actual legitimate army waged war against us, apart from evidently lose? It's ridiculous.

[manofpeace]

No disrespect to those that have died but the U.S. and British militaries are bloody crap if they can't even stop a bunch of extremists. What would we do if an actual legitimate army waged war against us, apart from evidently lose? It's ridiculous.

Try to think of the Revolutionary War, here in America. If you lived in that time and were on the side of the Redcoats, and saw them facing terrible loses at the hands of just a few thousand farm boys, well you'd say the same thing. It's just a matter of them knowing the terrain better than us and using some of its features (caves, mountain passes etc) to get past us and trip us up whenever we stick our foot out too far in one direction.

[Mike Tequeli]

No disrespect to those that have died but the U.S. and British militaries are bloody crap if they can't even stop a bunch of extremists. What would we do if an actual legitimate army waged war against us, apart from evidently lose? It's ridiculous.

That's retarded. We are geared towards fighting regular armies, every regular fighting force we've been up against has been crushed (Iraq), the whole problem is that counter insurgency is a tough war to fight.

[Seachmall]

 

No disrespect to those that have died but the U.S. and British militaries are bloody crap if they can't even stop a bunch of extremists. What would we do if an actual legitimate army waged war against us, apart from evidently lose? It's ridiculous.

Guerilla warfare and insurgency attacks are near impossible to defend against. In fact the bigger and better trained the army the bigger the target.

It's a god-damned shame that the Taliban are still strutting about like they own the place

They see it like they're just trying to protect themselves and their country. If most Iraqis do disagree with them (and I imagine a fair few do) it's not exactly going to be printed in the paper. They've a warped view of themselves supported by national and religious extremism and see America as the aggressor.

 

The same would happen in any country. As the old saying goes; "One man's terrorist, another man's freedom-fighter".

[jimmy.]

 

No disrespect to those that have died but the U.S. and British militaries are bloody crap if they can't even stop a bunch of extremists. What would we do if an actual legitimate army waged war against us, apart from evidently lose? It's ridiculous.

Just curious, which armies do you consider "legitimate", then? Can you point to other successful so-called "counterinsurgency operations" in any recent time and can you describe some of the methods that they have employed? Not really sure what your alternative is.

[CryptReaperDorian]

Not to mention that my school has lost three graduates in Iraq. I believe that we have done more damage to the Middle East than they have done to us. We've bombed people's homes, falsely blown up what we thought were terrorist plots, and the such. We have f*cked up so bad. Actually, pretty much everybody has.

 

@manofpeace: True about the terrains, but with these military satellites I would think it shouldn't be too hard to find people with huge bounties on their heads like Osama. It's just stunning how much imagery can be magnified with satellites. You can even probably use them to stalk a single person for days.

[Robinski]

 

No disrespect to those that have died but the U.S. and British militaries are bloody crap if they can't even stop a bunch of extremists. What would we do if an actual legitimate army waged war against us, apart from evidently lose? It's ridiculous.

If we were fighting a conventional army, say we are in a fictional war against an organised Afghan Army. It would be a lot quicker and a lot easier to win a war like that; because it's a lot simpler. You can point at something and say there's the enemy at their typical army base with all that government commissioned gear. With the Taliban you cant point at someone in the street and definitively say they aren't an insurgent like you could with a soldier. They live in the community, many of them, and these communities won't give them up because they are scared of them. And when they aren't living their seemingly normal lives they'll be in hidden training camps small enough to be tucked away unnoticed, let's see you do that with a military base or even outpost.

 

It's not a conventional enemy, and therefore we can't fight a conventional war. This type of war is more about winning over the people and the communities and getting them to turn over the insurgents, rather than winning over land.

 

Also, @CRD I don't doubt the might of military technology, especially the extent that the capability of a lot of it is kept secret, but you could only do so much with sattelites to "stalk" someone like Osama. What if he went into a building, changed his clothes (and put on a hat) and came out with a load of other people and they all go their seperate ways? If he didn't look up, you'd never know which was him without men on the ground. Although i doubt even looking up would mean they could get a picture of his face.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Robinski

[Mad Tony]

No disrespect to those that have died but the U.S. and British militaries are bloody crap if they can't even stop a bunch of extremists. What would we do if an actual legitimate army waged war against us, apart from evidently lose? It's ridiculous.

The Soviets were fighting in Afghanistan for years and eventually pulled out because they were getting hit too badly from all the insurgent attacks. Remember, this is the same army that crushed the Germans in 1945. As others have said, were this a regular army the war would be a lot easier to win.

[CryptReaperDorian]

No disrespect to those that have died but the U.S. and British militaries are bloody crap if they can't even stop a bunch of extremists. What would we do if an actual legitimate army waged war against us, apart from evidently lose? It's ridiculous.

If we were fighting a conventional army, say we are in a fictional war against an organised Afghan Army. It would be a lot quicker and a lot easier to win a war like that; because it's a lot simpler. You can point at something and say there's the enemy at their typical army base with all that government commissioned gear. With the Taliban you cant point at someone in the street and definitively say they aren't an insurgent like you could with a soldier. They live in the community, many of them, and these communities won't give them up because they are scared of them. And when they aren't living their seemingly normal lives they'll be in hidden training camps small enough to be tucked away unnoticed, let's see you do that with a military base or even outpost.

 

It's not a conventional enemy, and therefore we can't fight a conventional war. This type of war is more about winning over the people and the communities and getting them to turn over the insurgents, rather than winning over land.

 

Also, @CRD I don't doubt the might of military technology, especially the extent that the capability of a lot of it is kept secret, but you could only do so much with sattelites to "stalk" someone like Osama. What if he went into a building, changed his clothes (and put on a hat) and came out with a load of other people and they all go their seperate ways? If he didn't look up, you'd never know which was him without men on the ground. Although i doubt even looking up would mean they could get a picture of his face.

Guess you're right about that. The military may try to stalk multiple people with different cameras or satellites and see where they go however. I don't know how that all works, but with careful study it can probably be found out which one is Osama. Factors could be what direction the people go off too, people that are grouped up together, and so on.

 

On the topic of the Taliban and guerilla forces or whatever they are called. In simple words, armies are easier to spot than guerillas because guerillas act and dress more casual and are more hidden.

[Oxidizer]

Fair enough insurgent forces are an altogether different beast from country v country warefare, but come on, it's a military's job to be able to handle situations like these and to control them; in fact, that's one of the main points of having an army. We've made no headway in however many years this particular war has been going on and it's verging on incompetence now; our militaries aren't doing their job properly in that respect. That's my whole point.

[Seachmall]

Like I said no army can really defend against Guerilla warfare and insurgency. They're designed to be fast and random, not something you can really prepare for.

[Oxidizer]

But a trained legit military should. Otherwise it's useless.

[Seachmall]

But a trained military should be.

It's just not really possible. You can argue that they should be but it's not practical to. The point of these strategies is to tackle the army when they least expect it, even if they spent years training against these attacks it would go to waste because the insurgents would just switch tactics.

[jimmy.]

But a trained legit military should. Otherwise it's useless.

So what is your way to remedy the problem?

[Oxidizer]

So what is your way to remedy the problem?

Why should I strategise one? It ain't my job.

[Robinski]

 

But a trained legit military should. Otherwise it's useless.

So what is your way to remedy the problem?

The simple answer is that there isn't one I realise this is your point btw . Or at least not one i can come up with. It's like trying to catch sand, for every few hundred grains you catch millions slip through your fingers. I think the sad thing is that this war can't be won like a war, because of reasons I outlined above but it will need to be won diplomatically, and I dont see that happening with the Taliban anytime soon.

 

From what I know about the Troubles, and to be honest I don't know that much as most of it was before my time, we are facing a similar sort of enemy. I'm more than willing to be corrected on this as my knowledge is very limited on the subject. My point is that that situation wasn't solved through force but through the parties eventually laying down their arms. But even so we've still got some extremist nutjobs who obviously don't want the established peace to stay, and that's probably what will happen in Afghanistan. Even if in the future the Taliban somehow agrees to lay down their arms or reach some truce, there'll still be the splinter factions who believe they stil need to fight their Good Fight.

 

TL;DR The whole situation's pretty f*cked up.

[Max]

The recent spike in Allied Casualties in Afghanistan isn't, fortunately an indication of rising Taliban power. Infact it's almost certainly the opposite. Certainly for British troops the rise in casualties has been as a result of Operation Panther Claw which is a massive push against the Taliban in Helmand.

 

Although it is tragic to loose such brave men in this war. I think that to end it this price will need to be paid. This operation is supposed to be the beginning of the end. Let's hope it is.

[Robinski]

 

The recent spike in Allied Casualties in Afghanistan isn't, fortunately an indication of rising Taliban power. Infact it's almost certainly the opposite. Certainly for British troops the rise in casualties has been as a result of Operation Panther Claw which is a massive push against the Taliban in Helmand.

 

Although it is tragic to loose such brave men in this war. I think that to end it this price will need to be paid. This operation is supposed to be the beginning of the end. Let's hope it is.

I think this is the case for the American troops in Afghanistan aswell, what with the recent undertaking of Operation Strike of the Sword Which is operating alongisde Panther I think. With the British taking the north side of the Helmand River and the Americans taking the south side, or vice versa I can't remember.

 

EDIT: glad to see that CrocodileDundee's post got deleted, was about to report it. Thanks whoever reported and whoever deleted

[CptPusheen]

Maybe US soldiers will stop dying when US goverment cease to invade other countries with "we do it for peace" excuse while it's obvious that all they want is crude oil? There are so many other countries in which civil wars and mass murder are happening(many countries in Africa) but there are no US soldiers... why? Because these countries are not profitable

[Fnorg]

Maybe US soldiers will stop dying when US goverment cease to invade other countries with "we do it for peace" excuse while it's obvious that all they want is crude oil? There are so many other countries in which civil wars and mass murder are happening(many countries in Africa) but there are no US soldiers... why? Because these countries are not profitable

The war in Afghanistan is justifiable. It's not like war in Iraq, which is based misinformation and lies.

[El Zilcho]

You can't just win a war like this. Those f*cking Taliban c*nts are holed up in the mountains, out of range of air strikes, out of view of snipers and troops. You can't just find them and kill them, it's a totally different war to your 'average' battle. That's why it keeps on going and going, because the extremist spirit, the ridiculous need to kill more and more in the name of your God (that belief isn't anything to do with Islam anyway), will keep these men fighting. They don't operate under the ideals of fixing the world, they want to kill and destroy until they get there point across. They have thousands of disillusioned, young men to blow themselves up. And why? Because as good as the intentions are of our men, the tactics employed are flawed. We have, in a way, brought the complications upon ourselves. We tried to smoke them out, when they never were the surrendering type. There is just about only one thing that keeps people like these fighting, re-educating and never surrendering, soldering on against insurmountable odds, stupidly sacrificing themselves for a God that they have created. And that is:

 

Religion. It binds them to a common cause, and as long as their vision remains clouded, they will never stop. Death doesn't hold them back. That's the thing that really frightens me; if death doesn't stop a man, what can?

[Fnorg]

Are suggesting the Taliban should in fact fight fairly against an organized, trained army? They don't have planes, they don't have heavy artillery, so it wouldn't really be fair to them. The NATO forces could easily crush them out in the open, and stick to the ROE. This evens it out somehow.

 

I am aware of that my post makes it look like I sympathize with the Taliban cause.

[sam33]

I reckon the Taleban aint afraid of dying cos they beleive so strongly in there religion. If they blow themselves up then they'll see it as an act of Martydom and it will send them to heaven. In that sense we can never win.

[El Zilcho]

I reckon the Taleban aint afraid of dying cos they beleive so strongly in there religion. If they blow themselves up then they'll see it as an act of Martydom and it will send them to heaven. In that sense we can never win.

Exactly, I'm not suggesting they should or ever would fight fairly. Simply because they don't believe in fair, i doubt these freaks even believe non Muslims are human. They give there own people a bad name, they turn the Quran into what sounds like some killing manual (I'm sure any and all Muslims out there know it is the opposite) and as sam33 just said, they aren't afraid of death, they believe so firmly in the afterlife that I don't think they can be stopped. Its a religion, an idea.

 

An idea never dies.

[Seachmall]

Simply because they don't believe in fair,

"Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected." - Sun Tzu (The Art of War)

 

No country, general or soldier believes in a fair war, they know better than that. The Taliban are fighting a damn good fight, they seem to be doing everything right. I've respect for that, although I'm not pleased about it and it is unfortunate for us. They're taking advantage of the fact the US will not [intentionally] attack innocents, the British did the same. Most armies will when given the chance, at least those who prioritise victory.

 

You can't fault the Taliban for risking their lives for a belief they hold strong, we all would (or at least should). This might sound like I've sympathy for them or their cause but I don't, I do however have respect for them. You'd be a fool not to, and it seems to be where the US keeps making mistakes. They get arrogant and impatient.

[El Zilcho]

Simply because they don't believe in fair,

"Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected." - Sun Tzu (The Art of War)

 

No country, general or soldier believes in a fair war, they know better than that. The Taliban are fighting a damn good fight, they seem to be doing everything right. I've respect for that, although I'm not pleased about it and it is unfortunate for us. They're taking advantage of the fact the US will not [intentionally] attack innocents, the British did the same. Most armies will when given the chance, at least those who prioritise victory.

 

You can't fault the Taliban for risking their lives for a belief they hold strong, we all would (or at least should). This might sound like I've sympathy for them or their cause but I don't, I do however have respect for them. You'd be a fool not to, and it seems to be where the US keeps making mistakes. They get arrogant and impatient.

That is true, war isn't fair. But my point on fair is that they don't fight to our expectations (should we have any regarding battle?). Then of course, why wouldn't they fight dirty, hiding and blowing up the enemy with bombs. They can never win fighting head on, so they know that in order to succeed to any degree they have to hide, ambush, blow up. That's just how it works for them. You may respect their tactics, and they're respectable intelligence. But I have none beyond that. As much as every one of them deserves to be killed (I believe it would only improve our world to rid it of people like this, maybe I'm no better than them), it wouldn't really solve anything. Taliban means pupil (I think). That shows that it basically consists of any person, who has been taught to do these acts of evil. Kill Osama Bin Laden, another one springs up in his place. I guess it's just a matter of Hollywood revenge, get the guy responsible for your grief, and everything is OK. At least, that's the way I see it.