ParoXum Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 I heard that at the time of GTAIII and VC, modding community (mostly tools maker) had contacts with R*. But this definitely ended with SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Rockstar probably forgot about the modders when they started raking in cash from SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc student Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 A new video shared in another topic - The effect that the couch gives - it was not possible without a modification. Think of all of the videos you can make if you can add your own models! On a side note, here's a topic for mod fans who want to share their ideas and get their San Andreas/IV Total Conversion mod ideas into discussion! http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtopic=416704 This game is UNDERUSED and always has been - You feel this way yourselves, knowing that these cities deserve many stories, let alone new maps by players promoting your game - using this JUST as games is a waste of your technology when we could be using it to express ourselves! You can't make the following video without modding, and you can't create this kind of art without that couch! (well, not the couch, but you see what he did there - Brilliant NOT POSSIBLE in stock GTA! ) San ANdreas had MPACKS, Episodes are MPACKS - the games are still underused! You have a platform, you make the Daddy Games, let us make your babies. This vid is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qumulys Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Just a few points I want to make. 1. To SMH, I totally agree with you mate, GTAIV is a dog with a strawberry in its butt, and mod support would be the doctor with the prescribed cream. But, I got your point in a couple of paragraphs and you kind of repeated yourself for the next 30 or so paragraphs. 2. Is it possible to edit your topic title? This is a rare and worthwhile topic in this section, yet the topic says nothing about supporting mods, just about the lack of r*'s support which has been noted many times before. 3. There is no 3. *edit* Oh yes, there was a 3, I was gonna also say that video was awesome, well done to its author! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermortalhuman Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Thanks for your continued support, as more modders and hobby artists and hopefuls stumble into the topic, there is a better chance at some answer. Got the topic title popped into something more suitable - whoever wrote it was in good thinking, I just requested a more suitable name, and this one is just right. I wonder if they would just require having to share things they DONT own to share things they DO own? Even if that's the case - tell us. I just want an official answer, to no longer be guessing about it, now that you are here, we love your platform, I do especially, it is worth my effort to reach out to you, Rockstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetheshrew Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 i wish they supported the mods i use. I only use visual mods and cool little mods like getting Niko to smoke a cigarette at a push of a button . I use these mods in mp by using a special little file but why should I? Im not rocket MPG'ing people or spawning tugz. I love R* for giving me the chance to play this awesome game(no consoles here ) but i should be able to use these mods shouldnt I? its not like R* released a good patch with corrected graphics, DOF, or better blur is it. I and many others have had to sort that one lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermortalhuman Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) A sad day: http://www.gtaforums.com/index.php?showtop...st&p=1059345195 Another mod - the Great Gostown Paradise of 4 years running - has fallen to lack of modding support. It has taken it's last hit to production, and I wish Rockstar would come tell me Why this had to happen. Maybe a lost lot will not be such a hit if there wasn't one million other problems. You SAID we will be supported, it STILL exists on this site: http://www.rockstargames.com/sanandreas/pc/, just want to know why not... Edited July 9, 2009 by supermortalhuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Look, I kinda understand what you're saying, but you are the same time full of crap (please, don't be offended) 1) I kinda knew ghostown project will never get finished. It's a LOT of work (way past what I can even conceive) and people have their own lives to tend to. These large projects are just not that feasible. I mean, if you if look at Fallout which has a great modding scene; biggest projects there are compilations of multiple mods made to be compatible. They don't include whole new maps and they have the modding toolkits available practically form the start (even though Bethesda did f*ck up things for the modders with the 1.5 patch and later). 2) R* doesn't need to provide modding support for any of their products. It would be great if they would provide a modding toolkit as Valve or Bethesda have, but if they don't do that - they will not do that. It might be contrary to their interests because the modding scene makes the game more popular (no doubt about it); mods extend gameplay and number of hours you put into the game; a toolkit available from the day one may speed up mod production (a lot); it may reduce the amount of sh*t shoveled in R*'s direction BUT it remains their choice. Not anywhere is it written that a game developer should provide tools that would enable easier modification of the game. It's purely a business decision. So if some modding project breaks down, why does the developer need to care about that? Also, I wouldn't take their site seriously, it's been known to have spread utter bullsh*t and miss information. Like the MaxPayne3 section that didn't mention the PC version anywhere, but it was obviously in the making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitro_hedgehog Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i'd love to see modding tools released. look at valve. we have tools to create entirely different games running on the same engines. the result is a flood of awesome content. (which indirectly increases valve's sales and directly increases the replay value of the game you bought). i'm dissapointed that other companys can't do stuff like this.... imagine how a roleplay mod could do on GTA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermortalhuman Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) @Mkey: I respect your opinions but if you go look at the website linked in the post above yours, you see that they have falsely advertised. They said you can make your own world. With what tool? Where are they? They BETTER not be referring to the tools in this community. That is shifty in itself. Your website SAYS we will get to mod the game. Give them to us, Rockstar, or you are guilty of false advertising and owe back some money to people like me who only bought a second license for the game because you said "Make your own worlds". You CANT sell something with new features AND not give those features - you are not in the "allowed to false advertise" club, no one is. They can't say they were relying on us and not even mention a link to it anywhere. The only answer they give is "we don't support modding" at the tech support line - ok, don't SUPPORT it, that's fine and dandy - but you DID sell me this game on false advertising because I bought it for the sheer fact it promised tools. SO, since you are ignoring me, this topic, my calls and emails about it, it will soon need to turn into something else, obviously, because, Rockstar Games: You owe me a partial refund OR the rest of the product you sold me (pipeline tools or partial refund - it's the law). I'm sure Hot Coffee $5 was a hit, I want at least $10 for my tools never showing up. Give me tools, or tell me why you falsely advertised to me Edited July 9, 2009 by supermortalhuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKT70 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I'm more partial to Vanilla GTA4 than a modded GTA4, although it's a more personal thing. I've downloaded some truly dreadful mods, including that awful RealizmIV v6.0 mod, which is nothing more than a bloom-fest full of stupidly intense light, textures that look like they've been put through a Photoshop sharpen filter, and a slightly unrealistic handling mod that just makes a lot of cars slide everywhere with no grip, and almost undriveable. I like mods that add just that little bit of realism, such as the sitting mod, and Xtacy's coronas for headlights mod - simple, but adds that something. I'd love to see things like Umbrella mod Unlock all doors in places you've already been/done/finished, mod. Slow down time mod Although, I'm not too fussed either way, as the game is great as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermortalhuman Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) DKT70: That's a different kind of mod than this is about. If you visit the SAPC site, you see clearly they promised to be able to make your own worlds. They RE-SOLD a product, many of us bought it on PC JUST to get those "make your own world" features, and they still to this day never delivered. Does that mean we were falsely advertised to? Build a new world, not edit handling. The point is to clear out the entire city, and put new ones there, whether you change the rest of it or not, it should be your perogative. So, we were promised it in SA, still no modding not even for IV which they own. So, it's not renderware and license problems, and I now I need an answer - why even NOW are there no tools, basically. Tell me why, or give me the rest of the product I paid you for. Is it T2's fault? Are they forcing YOU? Just tell us. If you just think it's unneeded SAY it and stop leaving it to your fans to speak for you in their opinions - We want a definitive answer and to be eased of the things we paid for and did not receive. Edited July 9, 2009 by supermortalhuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKT70 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 DKT70: That's a different kind of mod than this is about. Oh, I'm aware of that, but shouldn't we be embracing all types of mods ? If you visit the SAPC site, you see clearly they promised to be able to make your own worlds. Build a new world, not edit handling. The point is to clear out the entire city, and put new ones there, whether you change the rest of it or not, it should be your perogative. Thing is, I would expect it to be a tad ambitious to replace a whole city. Nothing on this scale has ever been done in the PC modding community, even with the tools provided, and I would be worried about complacency coupled with boredom on many big extreme mods, and I don't want to follow a big mod only for it to fail early on. The past is filled with disappointment, and many ambitious mods have never seen the light of day. Think how long that Half-Life 2 total mod, Black Mesa, has been in development. If someone tried something like this on GTA4, we'd be on GTA5 before they finish. I see your enthusiasm, though, and applaud you for trying, but I think Rockstar are either not listening, or simply don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abel. Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Topic is sposed' to be email, not PM, but did PM as well recently, but posted too** First: This has nothing to do with MP cheating. MP Cheating has NOTHING to do with modding. So if you have an anti-modding opinion, it is not helpful, because all that means is that you wrongly assume modding means cheating. It's ok, not everyone understands, and I side with you: Cheats are wrong. I'm with you "anti" guys on that I like to mod GTA. I like to make things for it because NOTHING else out there allows me to do this. NOTHING else out there, free or not, has the same kind of artist-friendly atmosphere to the pipeline. In fact, open source game engine developers are doing it wrong. They make tools to help make THEIR mapping easier when they should not even be mapping at all, they should be coding and the tools they make should help artists, not force them to beg coders for help. There is NO worthwhile engine available to artists. The ONLY one that exists is GTA. The rest of them either use technologies I am uncomfortable with (like BSP map editors) and/or undermine the tools I use and have an education to use. GTA is different. It is a big blank canvas, and I want to mod it, you should let me, and you should help us. You should. There is no reason why you should not allow us to mod your game unless it is a third party exclusivity arrangement - in which case, disclose it to us. I want to mod it. You are here now, Rockstar, you are on these forums, you even watch the modding section. I have mailed you on your site over and over and I have PM'd you here. I have yet to receive ANY explanation as to why you do not support us in modding your game, not even a response. Hot coffee is not the reason. It helped you. And you made that, not us. Is it because of all of the third party things you use to make your games? What does that have to do with making my own models? What does that have to do with promoting your game every time I promote what I make with my hobby? This is not just for rockstar - this is open discussion for all - can anyone give ANY logical reason at all why they have not opened support for modding? They supported Max Payne (maybe because it was already what it was). Are you going to let us mod Max Payne 3, or did you change THAT aspect of what makes max payne what it is too? And I have faith in max payne.. I am excited to see what you do with it. But I want to mod GTA. I want you to recognize your most dedicated PC gamers. I want you to release some tools. You HAVE them, share them. Don't want to open up IV? FINE, GIVE us real, non-buggy GTA SA tools. You won't give it to us? Then TELL ME WHY. I deserve AT LEAST that much. I deserve to know WHY you won't let us mod. Was Jack Thompson and hot coffee your OWN anti modding ploy? Am I out of line to ask you that? No. You have not explained things, we are left to guess. Please tell us, all of us who undoubtedly will support this topic (as long as, you know, it doesn't disappear) who want to know: WHY won't you support modding GTA and if you don't want to support modding IV, WHY won't you at least release the old SA tools that you don't even and will never even use again? Why? I have mailed many of your mails, contacted you here directly, this is the next proper option: Make it public, give you an opportunity to see that it's more than just me who wants this. That's all I want - tools or the reason you won't release anything for us OR reply to any of us - because I am not the only person you have ignored about this. I'm not saying you completely ignore people, but I am one of a handful who are still completely clueless and awestruck that you haven't stormed the indie game developer scene by supporting modding in your game. That rings so many things that perhaps you can't see from your perspective - but from mine, i have read All of the dead ends - you can change a lot of lives, it's even that serious. lol. Frustration kills creativity when it isn't able to be directed into the art - You could make modding a bit more accessible, you could at least open up the game to people who own it. You closed version 2.0 and 3.0, but the website (PC version SA website) says you will support modding. DON'T say you are scared of controversy, you are not. I know "daddy's back" and your competition are "bitches" (opening of GTA IV is a stab at EA for failing at cloning - and I love you for smacking them). I know from your own in-game hot coffee jokes that isn't the reason. And we could not do ANY worse than FPS modders do - and to this day modders have been only an ASSET to you, never a detriment. Your games gain players who don't even like them just because they see awesome mods that make them more suited for their taste. Why won't you embrace this? Why do you ignore the people who love your games more than ANY of the other fans could ever dream to? Why do you ignore your most dedicated following? Tell me, I deserve to know. We all do. You're not just my favorite game company, you are the Only game company that even exists in my world besides Valve. Please, finally, and once and for all, tell me why you won't let us mod your games. You don't have to SUPPORT us, WE can handle ALL of that here. Just give us the tools. For old games, at least? Very well said, mate, I have been an avid fan of installing mods on my copies of (OFFICIAL, STORE BOUGHT) GTA for around 2 years now, it's the reason I bought them on PC and one of the reasons I began PC Gaming and started learning about PCs. The mods for the first three 3-dimensional Grand Theft Auto rival the monumental work of Source Engine modders, and for the world of computing Rockstar helped open up for me, I am grateful. Why Rockstar have now decided to shun their brilliant community is baffling, especially after their respective promises (in each manual for 3, VC and SA) of an official Modding SDK, their skin creation feature and map editor for GTA 2. In conclusion, I just hope a Rockstar employee sees this topic to realise what an asset the modding community is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoinks Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (MitchyK @ Jul 5 2009, 21:28) Snip! 1. One word. VALVe. Compared to the R* idiots... sh*tty, buggy game and no modding. Thank you. Really f*cking thank you, you f*ckers! 2. Nonsense. Campaigns made will be few, and not as good as the real thing. Sales won't go down, and that about the "complaints to R*", fail. This has never happened. In conclusion, your arguments are Fail and Fail. In final conclusion, to R*: We paid for a sh*tty port, buggy on 80% of the PCs (Do flickering textures, missing ones, memory leaks, crashes, that stupid RGSC crashing, cheaters - direct effect of your incompetence a.k.a. not adding a protection, OR EVEN an option to kick players ring any bells?), NO MODDING (THE VITAL PART WHY PC WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER THAN CONSOLES, MARK MY WORDS HERE) and no DLCs for the PC (The LEAST you can do!)! And although these problems were adressed to you DIRECTLY WHEN THE GAME CAME OUT, what did you do? You fixed the memory leaks. And not totally, they still are there, just eased. You didn't do NOTHING. I repeat this, NOTHING about the flickering textures (Zbuffer, bla-bla) and you added some "Multiplayer protection", which, admit it, SUCKS f*ckING ASS! Time passed, things didn't change by a lot. W- Scratch that, I will no longer ASK for answers. I DEMAND to know why did you ignore us you pathetic f*cks?! You used to be one of best. You supported PC gaming, remember? Now what? "Piracy" deemed us not worthy? Well, you know what? f*ck YOU!!! I will most probably be banned for this, but I really don't see the point of continuing this unwinnable fight. Just one thing, admins, moderators, if you are going to ban me, don't remove/edit my message. /rant ? tl;dr - R*, Stop ignoring the PC, you f*ckS! Edited July 10, 2009 by Skoinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermortalhuman Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 I don't think they will go as hard as you think on you. You are frustrated, it's understandable to be frustrated. A lot of times, nothing gets done because people don't speak up. Well, after 5 years, here we are, and we still want to know why you don't give us tools (especially since your website implied they would come Supported with the last game, SA, and even those never came...) There is NOTHING that can't be done if we raise our voice as One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynio Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Thing is, I would expect it to be a tad ambitious to replace a whole city. Nothing on this scale has ever been done in the PC modding community, even with the tools provided, and I would be worried about complacency coupled with boredom on many big extreme mods, and I don't want to follow a big mod only for it to fail early on. The past is filled with disappointment, and many ambitious mods have never seen the light of day. Think how long that Half-Life 2 total mod, Black Mesa, has been in development. If someone tried something like this on GTA4, we'd be on GTA5 before they finish. . That wouldn't be such a bad thing if complete overhaul mods came out by the next GTA Great things are worth waiting for . Elder scrolls oblivion as an example, I only just found out yesterday about the Oblivion enhanced edition an absolutely outstanding mega huge mod, the game was old and well past is best, it has been made into a game any developer would be well proud of for a 2009 game, oblivion deluxe is 5.6gb the mod is 16.5gb and looks and plays very awesome 1 of my current favourites now. The only mods I would like to see for MP would be a race track editor, and for single player I hope plenty of great mods rise including better graphics in time. Edited July 10, 2009 by Waynio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qumulys Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Snip 1. One word. VALVe. Compared to the R* idiots... sh*tty, buggy game and no modding. Thank you. Really f*cking thank you, you f*ckers! 2. Nonsense. Campaigns made will be few, and not as good as the real thing. Sales won't go down, and that about the "complaints to R*", fail. This has never happened. In conclusion, your arguments are Fail and Fail. In final conclusion, to R*: We paid for a sh*tty port, buggy on 80% of the PCs (Do flickering textures, missing ones, memory leaks, crashes, that stupid RGSC crashing, cheaters - direct effect of your incompetence a.k.a. not adding a protection, OR EVEN an option to kick players ring any bells?), NO MODDING (THE VITAL PART WHY PC WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER THAN CONSOLES, MARK MY WORDS HERE) and no DLCs for the PC (The LEAST you can do!)! And although these problems were adressed to you DIRECTLY WHEN THE GAME CAME OUT, what did you do? You fixed the memory leaks. And not totally, they still are there, just eased. You didn't do NOTHING. I repeat this, NOTHING about the flickering textures (Zbuffer, bla-bla) and you added some "Multiplayer protection", which, admit it, SUCKS f*ckING ASS! Time passed, things didn't change by a lot. W- Scratch that, I will no longer ASK for answers. I DEMAND to know why did you ignore us you pathetic f*cks?! You used to be one of best. You supported PC gaming, remember? Now what? "Piracy" deemed us not worthy? Well, you know what? f*ck YOU!!! I will most probably be banned for this, but I really don't see the point of continuing this unwinnable fight. Just one thing, admins, moderators, if you are going to ban me, don't remove/edit my message. /rant ? tl;dr - R*, Stop ignoring the PC, you f*ckS! Hope you don't get banned, I read your entire post in Yahtzee's voice in my head. Made your post awesome funny Still no R*Toronto reply I see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Just an FYI no one gets banned for speaking their mind on here. We are not affiliated with Rockstar in any way, this is an INDEPENDANT fan forum. Although popular rumour will have you believe I am in the pay of Rockstar (I am not). The only time there have been problems with people speaking their mind is when people keep saying the damn same thing over and over again in other words when a newbie signs up to slag GTA 4 off (it gets tiresome after the 200th person does it). So you can speak your mind on here, but keep it civil and keep it moving the discussion forward. As for the discussion well not that bothered about modding to be honest. Which is why I am not taking part in this thread (other than this post). I have never modded any of my GTA's and I can't see a reason to mod GTA 4. So not really that bothered about whether Rockstar does or does not embrace the modding community. All I am concerned about is that the PC gets the next GTA, to me that is the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qumulys Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Just an FYI no one gets banned for speaking their mind on here. We are not affiliated with Rockstar in any way, this is an INDEPENDANT fan forum. Although popular rumour will have you believe I am in the pay of Rockstar (I am not). The only time there have been problems with people speaking their mind is when people keep saying the damn same thing over and over again in other words when a newbie signs up to slag GTA 4 off (it gets tiresome after the 200th person does it). So you can speak your mind on here, but keep it civil and keep it moving the discussion forward. As for the discussion well not that bothered about modding to be honest. Which is why I am not taking part in this thread (other than this post). I have never modded any of my GTA's and I can't see a reason to mod GTA 4. So not really that bothered about whether Rockstar does or does not embrace the modding community. All I am concerned about is that the PC gets the next GTA, to me that is the priority. Thats pretty fair enough CC. Are you not secretly at least hoping for some of the DLC content for GTA4 to make it to the PC version? You should try a few mods tho CC, like the sitting on a bench, even the taking a puff from a ciggie is pretty classy. I'm not much for the rocket pistol power mods, but some mods really add to the gaming experience if done well. But as you say, your just speaking your view (I hope gta5 makes it to pc too, but unfortunately I have my doubts, console kiddies have spoiled everything.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azkay Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Just an FYI no one gets banned for speaking their mind on here. We are not affiliated with Rockstar in any way, this is an INDEPENDANT fan forum. Although popular rumour will have you believe I am in the pay of Rockstar (I am not). The only time there have been problems with people speaking their mind is when people keep saying the damn same thing over and over again in other words when a newbie signs up to slag GTA 4 off (it gets tiresome after the 200th person does it). So you can speak your mind on here, but keep it civil and keep it moving the discussion forward. As for the discussion well not that bothered about modding to be honest. Which is why I am not taking part in this thread (other than this post). I have never modded any of my GTA's and I can't see a reason to mod GTA 4. So not really that bothered about whether Rockstar does or does not embrace the modding community. All I am concerned about is that the PC gets the next GTA, to me that is the priority. Thats pretty fair enough CC. Are you not secretly at least hoping for some of the DLC content for GTA4 to make it to the PC version? You should try a few mods tho CC, like the sitting on a bench, even the taking a puff from a ciggie is pretty classy. I'm not much for the rocket pistol power mods, but some mods really add to the gaming experience if done well. But as you say, your just speaking your view (I hope gta5 makes it to pc too, but unfortunately I have my doubts, console kiddies have spoiled everything.....) Most probably will. Everyone knows PC gaming is the future. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermortalhuman Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) @PC gaming is the future: That is a whole 'nother discussion, and if you start a topic about it, I would Love to be a part of it (not saying "you're off topic!", not at all, just saying, good point of discussion, worthy of a topic. But as for the next GTA being on PC or not... Get modding supported with me, and it will be a given that GTA will always be on PC from here on out (until the set top boxes are overrun with facebook fans and PC's suffer lack of userbase because 360 and cloud-based OS PC's are way cheaper to both buy and repair/replace, thus negating their need for a PC since it's on the console, and "casual gamers" [read:noobs who only know facebook and solitare and are scared of google] outnumber "hardcore gamers" [read: technologically aware people] 10 to 1 to where they can't hear our tears over the air exhaust of the set top box - they are phasing out the PC, like Bill Gates himself said the XBox would do back in 1998 when asked why he didn't yet make a console). But yea, get modding for IV from Rockstar = ensure this game is a given on PC platform for the remainder of its existence. If they would just properly cash in on their untapped modding crowd... Edited July 10, 2009 by supermortalhuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 If they would just cash in on their untapped modding crowd... Don't fool yourself, with or without modding this game couldn't sell ten million on PC. Well, with the ultra hype generated it would maybe break 3 mill with a simultaneous release, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermortalhuman Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) yea, I HAVE to agree with that, it is a proper statement for the current times in my opinion as well. However, imagine a press release stating that Rockstar Games is now encouraging modding GTA San Andreas (because it's on the site...) and/or GTA IV - not just allowing it, but encouraging it (also, not supporting it. Max Payne 2 tools were unsupported, but we had them). That would cause a short buzz - not enough, I agree. But then let me take this word to youtube afterward, let me take it to blendernation, let me take it the autodesk zone, let me take it to the gamedev forums and let GTA scoop up - and grow - with ALL of the people just like me who are frustrated by everything available to us being solely created with a programmer in mind. There is a despicable divide between artists and developers in the online community (the only place homebrew game dev and game modding really exists) because developers make tools they can use and Rockstar's frame work solves that problem. The way they've made their games (GTA and all of their mods - bully, manhunt, warriors etc) is so artist friendly that it's almost absurd that none of the tool makers here never just cloned the workflow and created a similar pipeline - if I could, I would have long ago. I'm saying that this game could literally sell millions upon millions of units to people who specifically want an engine to just put their models in. Literally. Because I would not have any problem buying 2 copies of GTA IV to be able to build my own world in it. I bought 2 copies of SA because the website said modding would be supported (ps2 then PC). I'd do it for IV (already have IV - I'll buy another copy lol). People who will only play a little bit of the game will buy it - blender users who are sick and tired of all those developer-only engines out there, sick and tired of level editors that once again are put together with a developer in mind, down to the interfaces they tend to support. Blender is making leaps and strides with their game engine, but GTA engines are a full framework. sh*t, I'd go as far as to say that this engine would dominate the entire open source engine world when it comes to artists and amount to some serious sales for even future products. Who wouldn't upgrade their copy of rage? If they won't support modding, and they actually read this, then I must say they are some right thick-skulls if they don't at least license it in an affordable manner for non-commercial use, because I will BUY IT. I will get even more behind it than I already am. They've got to open this up to their fans, their fans WILL use it to open up new markets to them. Maybe they just don't want everyone to further divide with artistsVSprogrammers, maybe the whole thing is because they KNOW there would be no competition against their engine. Believe me, it's true. The staggering majority of artists of my type would probably agree: I do not care about sandbox editor for consumers, I don't care about proprietary valve or epic tools, I care about exporting my art from my packages and rendering it. It is impossible to get programmers out there, they all have their own way - that's why RAGE and GTARW are so rare. Because that one group did it that way - and in their case, they HAD to support their artists... Given the scope and format of these games, I mean. That translated to possibly the most moddable and mod friendly game of ALL time (I've tried them allll trying to offset GTA Modding 3rd party tool bugs with something else more official, thus more functional), and they don't even support it? after they say they will for the last game? and now the new game is out and still doesn't support modding? Gave us a video camera and the greatest videos, most artful videos, all come from mods. Go figure. I just really hope they take a chance and watch the artists flock to them. If it was a bit more proper, I'd already be out there telling people "there is a better way!" - but I don't want to also have to explain to them why they need 3 types of the same kind of tool to get around 3 different bugs, you know? Rockstar is indeed sleeping on a lot of potential, as you can see. Edited July 10, 2009 by supermortalhuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoinks Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Thank you for not banning me I suppose. Yes, I kind off raged there... Now on the point. Modding as stated can make a game live, it can make it a best seller, but it can't, won't and never will ruin a game. I do not understand and at this point, but I do wish to know... What were they thinking?! And by the looks of the position we are in, ignored, What ARE you thinking, Rockstar?! Do you really believe that the PC has no future or do you think that piracy makes it a useless platform? What do you really believe? For me, and I know, for you too, piracy has never been an issue - If half of the people pirated it on the PC, so did half of the people on the Xbox or the PS3. Now a more useless detail. By the looks of it, useless only for you, Rockstar. Remember GTA 1 and 2? Back then, you were a small-time studio, developing on the PC. The games were perfect, we were happy, you had money to continue creating games (And intern winning more money, which seems to be your only sole purpose). Some time passed, GTA III came out. It was not Evolution, it was PURE REvolution. Nothing like this ever existed before. And I remember that the game was better on the consoles. Even back then. But it didn't matter. The console gaming wasn't like today's console gaming. I and most probably most people thought that it was just a move to attract more console players. And it worked. Again everyone was happy. Vice city came out - things were back to normal, everything - perfect. Modding was supported too. Remember? And then came the "stories". Those console exclusive games... Then San Andreas came out. We lived on with the poor port and the outdated graphics. Modidng was possible, again. And WE supported you. Not as much, but we still did... Because if it wasn't for US (And I don't mean the USA), YOU would still be a sh*tty small time studio, incapable of doing nothing more than just a bunch of scribbles on MS Paint! I hope this brief history reminds you, who you were and who you are becoming. And thank you, co-forumers for your patience and for reading my post. It is good to know that I am not alone and that the fight isn't lost. Now the words of President John Henry Eden from Fallout 3 ring in my ears - "Together, Together"... Edited July 10, 2009 by Skoinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Well, I definitively appreciate your passion, just take this in consideration * with all the crap misuse of mods has created in GTAIV MP, I don't expect announcement of full modding support would cause an ultra positive reaction and many people would remember how they were unable to play GTAIV MP (which,as it turned out, was a major part of the game) * never again should you buy a game based solely on something that has been written on any R* "support" site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananajuice Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 modding is ruining the online of GTAIV. since some kids think hes/shes a programmer by changing a few lines of codes and spawning 20 tug boats to crash the server, the game is unplayable. How can you play when little pricks keep crashing the server. modding is overused in GTA, I cant get into a game w/o some ass ruining all the fun R* are asses for allowing this. just make it so we can allow/not allow mods on server by host Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvis Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Really, I wish there were proper modding tools and all that stuff. Look for example at Source engine. Yes, Source engine games are getting older now, but does it matters? No, because mods make these games still alive, there are hundreds of modifications, TC's, maps, skins, weapons, everything. Imagine all that stuff for GTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruscris2 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 DKT70: That's a different kind of mod than this is about. If you visit the SAPC site, you see clearly they promised to be able to make your own worlds. They RE-SOLD a product, many of us bought it on PC JUST to get those "make your own world" features, and they still to this day never delivered. Does that mean we were falsely advertised to? Build a new world, not edit handling. The point is to clear out the entire city, and put new ones there, whether you change the rest of it or not, it should be your perogative. So, we were promised it in SA, still no modding not even for IV which they own. So, it's not renderware and license problems, and I now I need an answer - why even NOW are there no tools, basically. Tell me why, or give me the rest of the product I paid you for. Is it T2's fault? Are they forcing YOU? Just tell us. If you just think it's unneeded SAY it and stop leaving it to your fans to speak for you in their opinions - We want a definitive answer and to be eased of the things we paid for and did not receive. I think it's T2's fault ! What they want it's to make money.They don't give a sh*t about fans ! But I think it's a part of Rockstar fault too ! Rockstar should give some tools at the end of the gta era ! So you will can make your own world with the previous engine. At the release of GTA IV they should release the tools for SA ! They won't go back at the previous engine and make a new game again ! So they will delete the tools because they don't have what to do with them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoinks Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) modding is ruining the online of GTAIV. since some kids think hes/shes a programmer by changing a few lines of codes and spawning 20 tug boats to crash the server, the game is unplayable. How can you play when little pricks keep crashing the server. modding is overused in GTA, I cant get into a game w/o some ass ruining all the fun R* are asses for allowing this. just make it so we can allow/not allow mods on server by host First they have to give us tools, THEN MP control over the said mods, that we'll make. Edited July 10, 2009 by Skoinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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