Rockstar planning many episodes

[supermortalhuman]

So something dawned on me today, and I thought "wow, that's plausible"

 

In San Andreas, CJ had something like 20 or 30, maybe 50 banks of voice over parts. (not including pain sounds) Many of them had over 400 phrases, some 500 even, a few with 300+, many with 200+, and 5 or so that were under 100. I make that claim because I recently replaced every of CJ's voice with another game character's who I had found a skin of (which may or may not become a mod for SA) and I have first hand replaced every of them (I developed some slick methods to help speed my work flow, it wasn't bad).

 

Most of the sounds in CJ's web of banks are the same thing, and others are variants of the matching statement.

 

In bank-of-sounds 1-5, for sound_001.wav through to sound010.wav, he says "Sorry" in ten different ways, for example - a total of 50 times, some exactly the same, including filenme, just in different sub-banks. Some, are called for when he is in certain cities and stuff.

 

San Andreas pre-dates downloadable content on set-top consoles (realistically), but it did support DLC - it was called Mission Packs, some of you may be familiar with the Design Your Own Mission mod which utilizes the feature.

 

San Andreas also had all of that "unused area". Where Carl ended up roaming, but I always get the feeling San Andreas was supposed to be told through more eyes.

 

Now, a quick side note: Rockstar said they re-did Liberty because they didn't get it right last time, and they Also said that this time it was all about the map - the details in the map. So this side note is about Vice and San Andreas coming back to help lead into my points. If this time it was about the map, and indeed they did it wrong last time . I don't think they will be saying they think they got the Eighties wrong, because they did get them right in that game, and they certainly got the first version of that map correct, but what did they get wrong in Vice City that they would want to make right?

 

San Andreas? The unused space. There is an ungodly amount of voices for CJ, and I can guarantee you you will never hear every last one of them - they are that varied in the overall picture, and that widely numbered, and selected by some unknown order from each other to make "each time you play feel different", but you haven't heard all of these sounds lol, I know I haven't, and I lived in San Andreas for a long time at one point, figuratively speaking.

 

They didn't get the map right in III, fixed that in IV. They got the 80s right in Vice, they got the map right for what they did in one year, even though it really does look bad on a piece-by-piece basis, but maybe they didn't get something else right in Vice. in San Andreas, it was how you had this huge expanse, but only one character for ALL of it - it didn't work well, it went from a hood-tale and then boom, tenpenny drops you off and suddenly you're being in the country, the san fierro, vegas, you're hanging with nerds who love RC choppers, old pot heads, you get the picture.

 

What if CJ's story ended at the end of that part? And then you became someone else in the story, Claude, Catalina, these self-contained episodes. What makes me think of that is that SA feels like one of those movies that gets told through other peoples eyes, but just missing that part. Basically, like the episodes intertwine with niko, but SA feels like it is that kind of story, just never happens. Instead, CJ does a bunch of outlandish things that don't fit his personality or back story, or even the first third of the game except for loosely (but it was still awesome dont get me wrong).

 

What if the next GTA does the characters intertwining thing?

 

Think of how many outfits CJ had. And how few Niko has. And how those resources this time are I guess being spread out to Johnny and Luis. The way the player mesh system works in SA, not only did the player have multiple body types that could be had with each outfit, but each outfit was a separate mesh.

 

If the 10 or so banks that had 400+ voice overs in them were ten different characters, you could skin every single one of them with different clothes and CJ would still have more outfits than the rest of those 10 characters.

 

It was all underused. So I don't know what they got wrong in Vice City (anyone got any guesses?), and we know they got the Map wrong in Liberty-III. I think that the reasoning behind SA being redone, if it were to happen, has a possibility or high probability that it will be remade because they felt like not only the space was wasted, but the possibilities that came along side that space. Like how many different controllable characters CJ took up spaces from with clothes that most of us probably never wore all of (well, many buy all the clothes, but no one changes often etc), or how much space his voice redundantly took repeating the same things more times than anyone would ever even hear it in some cases, all of those possibilities.

 

So what did they get wrong in Vice City? And do you think there will be another episode for Liberty after Luis? Do you think there will be six episodes in the next game, with a new "thing we got wrong with Vice and that's why we will revisit this one, LC was the map, this time it's the ______", maybe then 9 episodes for a new SA, which will be to "fix" the waste of not just map space, but space all over the boards in that game's files? Rockstar likes the word "placeholder" - how much of IV was planned for III but didn't make it? Was the wasted space in SA 9 stories in one? It sure looks like the map would perfectly divide into 9 areas with 9 types of people. Vice divides into 6 with SFish Island, the golf course, the two main islands, the movie theatre, and the military base - we did actually get episodes on PSP/PS2 for those games in the long run, too. And Liberty City does divide into Three islands, and Three stories with niko (so the part about another episode, I didn't count niko, so it is three already, so forget I asked about more Liberty episodes, because it now dawns on me Niko was 1, these are 2 and 3).

 

What do you think? Their framework, underused in the past, now we will see much larger things since their money is going to be well stacked from episodes, max payne 3, and RDR? Making their company and budget large enough to pull it off?

Edited July 1, 2009 by supermortalhuman

[ldee]

That's a long post.

 

I didn't read much but are you basically suggesting that R* are planning on doing more voiceover works for characters?

 

Not a big deal to me...

 

Thread title suggested something to do with episodic content or something similar, but you're going on about voiceworks. The quantity they've put into their games are fine by me. No point doing 500+ different voice sound files.

[supermortalhuman]

That's what you get for not reading the post? The problem is in the reader in this case, or lack there of, not quite the title or the content

 

It is about the whole framework being episodic, and how it breaks down to GTA's main characters (lc, vc, and sa), and has a whole lot of interesting things.

 

Like the part about how the cities all divide into likely amounts of episodes for each, the possibility of episodes packaged into one game, or rather the intertwining of stories like Luis, Niko, Johnny, build into one game (like 8 days or something).

 

It goes on to detail a possible reason for SA being redone, with many episodes, the logic is largely the same from the old games, just the delivery has changed and improved - read the post, it's not that long, or at least don't say you didn't read something and call it off topic or assume it lacks things. Know what I mean jelly bean?

[ldee]

That was my initial perception of what the thread would be like. Sorry I wasn't in an essay-reading mood.

 

But if by "many", you suggest R* might do another 3 or 4 more episodes for GTA IV, it's not viable and could ultimately hurt the franchise, hindering the next installment of the series that the majority of gamers, casual and hardcore alike, await from the Grand Theft Auto franchise.

 

Episodes just aren't that great presently. As far as statistics are concerned, I'm pretty sure that LATD didn't sell well. Personally a whole new fresh game is always better than 2 or 3 major episodes with a big content/feature updates. They should stick to tradition.

[ScotchMouth]

Thats quite interesting speculation. I appreciate the time you took to elaborate on your thoughts.

 

That said.... with Vice i am going off of memory. I havent replayed it in a while (years). I see your point with SA but i think it just happens to be happenstance. Areas may seem underused but the breadth of the story took you all over the map which gave it great diversity. Even though some people felt as though certain areas were "wasted".

 

I can see what you are saying about dividing it into 9 "sectors" but at what point would playing something like that become redundant? I think by the fourth or fifth DLC (if that happened in theory) it wouldnt feel fresh. It would have a rehashed feeling to it that might make users tiresome. With all the mission ideas out there you can only do so much while keeping the game fresh and interesting.

 

I dont see R* continuing multiple DLCs after this one because eventually people are going to grow tired of LC. You can see that already. There are things that werent implemented that people yearn for. Be that side missions, specific vehicles or a new map all together. One of the things R* is good at is keeping people interested and keeping their material rather fresh.

 

That said. I think 3 DLC's is reasonable but i think 9 is a bit much. In future games I think we are going to see more of the content that people desired and pined over included right out of the box. That way the DLC will stay character focused and people wont be distracted that bicycles arent included.

[bobgtafan]

I think there will be more DLC for GTA 4 but it will be for adding new features and internors and weapons and planes Maybe even an extra borugh? But not anymore story missions because they need to focus on teh next GTA. Also nice post and I think that it would had made more sense in SA to have multiple characters instead of just Carl. But I don't think the maps divide in any certain way.

[trickstar34]

You know that would piss me off because I am a PC only gamer and I wouldn't get to play them.

[supermortalhuman]

trickstar: By then, they won;t be exclusive, and I am sure the DLC for Xbox is not exlusive forever (being packaged at a stand alone disc proves that to me, because if it was going to stay exclusive, they wouldn't put them both on the shelves together - it's a long reason, but they wouldn't - they also do not plan to pay Sony for each download, another reason it will be packaged. The game came on Steam at launch to support episodes like HL2 and other games do, and it will come hard cased or on steam as well for PC - I can't deny it when I know all of that, but I realize a lot of people believe it will stay exclusive for whatever their reasons. Also, I'm not ignoring the fact that some people just don't have internet, so not even a silver live membership, but then again, how many people have an Xbox and no internet? Still, that aspect does remain, and can't be ignored, I know.).

 

ScotchMouth: I can't disagree more. I could, but I simply do agree with some of the things you said.

 

I don't see more episodes for liberty (as I pointed out in that same exact paragraph and also pointed out I won't edit it to keep the flow going, it was a long write by then, for such a short post that will only take 2 minutes to read etc) and that's where our agreement kind of changes.

 

After the Luis content, that = 3 stories for three sectors of Liberty City. Niko in Broker, and seeing the whole map for the first time, Luis in Algonquin, and Johnny from Alderny - both also seeing the whole map. After Luis, I see Rockstar announcing Vice City just in time for the Holiday season release in 2010. Nice hot miami weather for all the people bored with the winter by then, waiting for christmas, then waiting for summer. III was made, VC came a year later, SA 3 years later. IV has 3 episodes, VC takes 2 years to come out, gets six episodes, SA comes out 2 years later at the end of the console lifecycles in 2012 and gets 9 or 10 episodes while you wait for immense GTA V. It's so clear, and it ALL came into my mind from noticing 2 minutes is one hour in GTA now, not 1 minute

 

Vice, as I mentioned is 6 main places, not all episodes need to be huge, and as you said about the future having less DLC and more "stock" - you're wrong but it's an easy mistake to make. The only reason they are doing episodes at all is because it costs a hell of a lot more money to make a game these days AND keep up with technology at the same time. They can pump out san andreas over and over again, its cheap to make SA compared to what it was in the past. It is expensive as hell to make games in the same amount of time as it used to take, with way more people to pay to get the job done in time (and GTA still wasn't ready in time, remember? Like, months-not-ready.) (also, dont get me wrong, I said SA is cheap to make TO ROCKSTAR, that's what I meant. But IV is not cheap to make for Rockstar. But with the Money IV made, I'm sure they can spit out III's all day long if they wanted to in way less time than it takes to make a IV game) Aye, hard to be speculative and not need to explain so much lol soz.

 

Episodes are not a test feature, they were test features for indie companies who are ran by people who work for Triple A companies. If anything, I expect GTA V to be ONLY a map and a seasonal interactive sitcom before I expect it to ever stay "2 episodes a game" or stay away from DLC. it's not happening. Games are not one-shot experiences anymore. Some are, poor devs make those. Triple A games are becoming more like TV, but interactive. More like Hollywood.

 

How many movies are based in new york city? You can make that many games. There is no reason for Rockstar to model NYC for every game they make there. They know that. GTA sells on controversy and humor. I can't bring myself to think for a second that Rockstar does not have an alternate version of liberty city for "real" products and advertisements. I don't assume for one moment that they are not building virtual real estate for people in the entertainment field, using pop culture, controversy, and humor to sell the games that are funding the development of such a city.

 

Maybe your heads are spinning, I hope you like this We will get bored of this liberty, and the vice and maybe not SA since we still are not bored of the old SA, but we won't be bored of GTA V that does to the GTA locations what GTA IV is doing to GTA IIIs. It seems to me, they are a revolution now more than they Ever were with GTA III, they are Rockstars for this, they are making history in my eyes.

Edited July 2, 2009 by supermortalhuman