major underscore Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Simple question: does GTA IV have a political bias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooner Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 You will need to sift through the sarcasm to make you're own opinion, Major. Rockstar are a clever and observational bunch when it comes to re-creating American culture & it's sensational cultural & religious infatuations... Gay anyone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exkabewbikadid Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 They've always poked fun at both the left and right, so I don't think they are bias in either direction. It's really just a pisstake on the whole system from one end of the spectrum to the other since both ends are flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Obvis456 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Yeah I gotta say they make fun of all political sides. Sometimes you must be able to laugh at yourself a little then it will all become more funny. Yeah more funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnygorgeous Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) I'd have to disagree I think they are definitely coming from the left, it's true they poke fun at the so called American left or maybe it would be fairer to say the mainstream left but the whole GTA universe pokes fun at capitalism. It's a British company after all, and the Brits for a variety of reasons on the whole don't like raw cowboy capitalism, we have crazy things like free health care and corporate regulation, though not nearly enough. Any one outside of the greed driven global system is considered left wing. The origins of the term left wing are in the French revolution where it was used to describe radical ideas contrary to the ruling elite. Edited July 1, 2009 by vinnygorgeous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooner Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) The origins of the term left wing are in the French revolution where it was used to describe radical ideas contrary to the ruling elite. Well, if its good enough for the French Revolution, it's good enough for me... Left it is! (Edit: Please do not assume that Rockstar is actually taking an American left or right political position with this game ) Edited July 1, 2009 by swooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydo Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I think it's basically a piss take combined with a good popular theme of crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFRJ Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 While they do take shots at the left ( liberals and progressives) the majority of the time they make fun of conservatives and right wingers. Just look at Weazel News' website and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numdmind Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 They certainly take more shots at the liberals, which is definitely merited. The left is much worse than the right wing, even though they're both nonsense. But people from the left are always pushing for more governmental control and censorship, and that's not right. Look at this BS socialist administration that's in place now in America. And people like Hillary Clinton and Tipper Gore are full on enemies to the freedom of speech. R* certainly knows that the liberals are worse off for the world, and I'm glad they aren't ashamed to voice that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainDingo Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) I don't see how they take more shots at liberals. It seems perfectly equal to me. Weazel News is a big spoof of Fox News, an overtly conservative news channel here in America that has well-earned its bad rap for being one-sided in everything it reports while carrying the slogan of "fair and balanced." Anyone who thinks Rockstar has any notable bias, and that they can speak for Rockstar that Rockstar believes one side is grand and the other is evil though is probably just biased, themselves. By the way, censorship is in no way shape or form a democratic thing. You think atheists and less family-oriented people are the ones obsessed with censoring everything? Right, that makes perfect sense. Just because republicans often use the word "freedom" like it's going out of style doesn't mean everything they do is freedom-oriented. It's just rhetoric the far right uses so they can say democrats are oppressive and communists and whatever way-out-there exaggeration they want to use to create a straw man argument to knock over. They're no more freedom-inclined than your average democrat. Democrats believe in the humanitarian aid of social systems and things of that nature (which you're free to construe as a bad thing or not), but not censorship. It's not the left's forte. That's a predominantly religious/family-oriented value. And we know which side is predominantly religious/family-oriented. (Spoiler: Not democrats.) Again, saying republican = 100% freedom and democrat = 100% communism is, let's say, "100% stupid." Edited July 3, 2009 by CaptainDingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalosoulj4h20 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 The conservatives are already comedy. They wanted to try something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numdmind Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I don't see how they take more shots at liberals. It seems perfectly equal to me. Weazel News is a big spoof of Fox News, an overtly conservative news channel here in America that has well-earned its bad rap for being one-sided in everything it reports while carrying the slogan of "fair and balanced." Anyone who thinks Rockstar has any notable bias, and that they can speak for Rockstar that Rockstar believes one side is grand and the other is evil though is probably just biased, themselves. By the way, censorship is in no way shape or form a democratic thing. You think atheists and less family-oriented people are the ones obsessed with censoring everything? Right, that makes perfect sense. Just because republicans often use the word "freedom" like it's going out of style doesn't mean everything they do is freedom-oriented. It's just rhetoric the far right uses so they can say democrats are oppressive and communists and whatever way-out-there exaggeration they want to use to create a straw man argument to knock over. They're no more freedom-inclined than your average democrat. Democrats believe in the humanitarian aid of social systems and things of that nature (which you're free to construe as a bad thing or not), but not censorship. It's not the left's forte. That's a predominantly religious/family-oriented value. And we know which side is predominantly religious/family-oriented. (Spoiler: Not democrats.) Again, saying republican = 100% freedom and democrat = 100% communism is, let's say, "100% stupid." Well, let's see....who started the PMRC? A liberal named Tipper Gore. Who is also a big advocate of family. A Democrat in favor of censorship and an advocate of the family. Yeah, you think you know, but you don't. Who's fighting to maintain as much censorship as possible? A democrat named Hillary Clinton. Who wants the government involved in every aspect of our lives? The liberals. The democrats. You're fooling yourself if you think that the democrats are all atheists and non-family oriented. Most democrats I know are christians and very family oriented. You're fooling yourself even more if you actually believe that they had nothing to do with censorship. I never said I speak for R, but go ahead and believe what you want. It's obvious you don't know much about who's censoring who in this country, so I'll not waste my time on someone who has no clue. BTW, I'm an atheist and I'm most certainly not a Democrat. Actually, my family (myself excluded, I won't associate myself with either of the political parties) has always been quite Republican and we're certainly not family-oriented, and we never went to church...I've known many Republicans who don't believe in god. I've known many more Republicans who are 100% against censorship. You're certainly full of stereotypes aren't ya? Why don't take off your rose-tinted glasses to see the world in reality, instead of what you think the "liberals" stand for. Yeah, sure, they are liberal- with censorship and government control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgtafan Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I don't see how they take more shots at liberals. It seems perfectly equal to me. Weazel News is a big spoof of Fox News, an overtly conservative news channel here in America that has well-earned its bad rap for being one-sided in everything it reports while carrying the slogan of "fair and balanced." Anyone who thinks Rockstar has any notable bias, and that they can speak for Rockstar that Rockstar believes one side is grand and the other is evil though is probably just biased, themselves. By the way, censorship is in no way shape or form a democratic thing. You think atheists and less family-oriented people are the ones obsessed with censoring everything? Right, that makes perfect sense. Just because republicans often use the word "freedom" like it's going out of style doesn't mean everything they do is freedom-oriented. It's just rhetoric the far right uses so they can say democrats are oppressive and communists and whatever way-out-there exaggeration they want to use to create a straw man argument to knock over. They're no more freedom-inclined than your average democrat. Democrats believe in the humanitarian aid of social systems and things of that nature (which you're free to construe as a bad thing or not), but not censorship. It's not the left's forte. That's a predominantly religious/family-oriented value. And we know which side is predominantly religious/family-oriented. (Spoiler: Not democrats.) Again, saying republican = 100% freedom and democrat = 100% communism is, let's say, "100% stupid." Well, let's see....who started the PMRC? A liberal named Tipper Gore. Who is also a big advocate of family. A Democrat in favor of censorship and an advocate of the family. Yeah, you think you know, but you don't. Who's fighting to maintain as much censorship as possible? A democrat named Hillary Clinton. Who wants the government involved in every aspect of our lives? The liberals. The democrats. You're fooling yourself if you think that the democrats are all atheists and non-family oriented. Most democrats I know are christians and very family oriented. You're fooling yourself even more if you actually believe that they had nothing to do with censorship. I never said I speak for R, but go ahead and believe what you want. It's obvious you don't know much about who's censoring who in this country, so I'll not waste my time on someone who has no clue. BTW, I'm an atheist and I'm most certainly not a Democrat. Actually, my family (myself excluded, I won't associate myself with either of the political parties) has always been quite Republican and we're certainly not family-oriented, and we never went to church...I've known many Republicans who don't believe in god. I've known many more Republicans who are 100% against censorship. You're certainly full of stereotypes aren't ya? Why don't take off your rose-tinted glasses to see the world in reality, instead of what you think the "liberals" stand for. Yeah, sure, they are liberal- with censorship and government control. Wow so you base your opnion based off one politication. Also democrat and liberal are two different things. Here you need to read this Democratics Demographics. Anyway Liberal is someone who pushes for individual rights. A democratic is a person who is part of the democratic party which is made up of many people of many different sytles of thinking. You really need to learn this stuff if your going to go on a rant. Also Social Conservates who normally vote for Republicans are the ones pushing family values. If you disagree with these facts you need to learn some more about politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord tammerlain Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Conservatives Meaning christian conservatives push just as much for censorship as Tipper Gore ever did Look at the Moral Majority, or the various christian groups that threaten to boycot companies for either violence, sex, or drug use. Walmart doesnt carry certain types of music because of the threat of boycots, Volvo pulled advertising in a gay orientated magazine because a christian group threatened to boycott Volvo The only group in the US that truely supports freedoms are more correctly called Libertarians The majority of conservatives love big government in a reas of sex, morality, and safety ( ie more cops and bigger military) The majority of "liberals" like big government for social spending programs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numdmind Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I don't see how they take more shots at liberals. It seems perfectly equal to me. Weazel News is a big spoof of Fox News, an overtly conservative news channel here in America that has well-earned its bad rap for being one-sided in everything it reports while carrying the slogan of "fair and balanced." Anyone who thinks Rockstar has any notable bias, and that they can speak for Rockstar that Rockstar believes one side is grand and the other is evil though is probably just biased, themselves. By the way, censorship is in no way shape or form a democratic thing. You think atheists and less family-oriented people are the ones obsessed with censoring everything? Right, that makes perfect sense. Just because republicans often use the word "freedom" like it's going out of style doesn't mean everything they do is freedom-oriented. It's just rhetoric the far right uses so they can say democrats are oppressive and communists and whatever way-out-there exaggeration they want to use to create a straw man argument to knock over. They're no more freedom-inclined than your average democrat. Democrats believe in the humanitarian aid of social systems and things of that nature (which you're free to construe as a bad thing or not), but not censorship. It's not the left's forte. That's a predominantly religious/family-oriented value. And we know which side is predominantly religious/family-oriented. (Spoiler: Not democrats.) Again, saying republican = 100% freedom and democrat = 100% communism is, let's say, "100% stupid." Well, let's see....who started the PMRC? A liberal named Tipper Gore. Who is also a big advocate of family. A Democrat in favor of censorship and an advocate of the family. Yeah, you think you know, but you don't. Who's fighting to maintain as much censorship as possible? A democrat named Hillary Clinton. Who wants the government involved in every aspect of our lives? The liberals. The democrats. You're fooling yourself if you think that the democrats are all atheists and non-family oriented. Most democrats I know are christians and very family oriented. You're fooling yourself even more if you actually believe that they had nothing to do with censorship. I never said I speak for R, but go ahead and believe what you want. It's obvious you don't know much about who's censoring who in this country, so I'll not waste my time on someone who has no clue. BTW, I'm an atheist and I'm most certainly not a Democrat. Actually, my family (myself excluded, I won't associate myself with either of the political parties) has always been quite Republican and we're certainly not family-oriented, and we never went to church...I've known many Republicans who don't believe in god. I've known many more Republicans who are 100% against censorship. You're certainly full of stereotypes aren't ya? Why don't take off your rose-tinted glasses to see the world in reality, instead of what you think the "liberals" stand for. Yeah, sure, they are liberal- with censorship and government control. Wow so you base your opnion based off one politication. Also democrat and liberal are two different things. Here you need to read this Democratics Demographics. Anyway Liberal is someone who pushes for individual rights. A democratic is a person who is part of the democratic party which is made up of many people of many different sytles of thinking. You really need to learn this stuff if your going to go on a rant. Also Social Conservates who normally vote for Republicans are the ones pushing family values. If you disagree with these facts you need to learn some more about politics. No, it's not based on one politician. I pointed out a few that are proponents of censorship that were so-called liberals. I pointed out that Tipper was a huge family values advocate - and she's a "liberal". So that kind of discredits your "Social Conservatives who normally vote for Republicans are the ones pushing family values" statement. I just showed you at least one liberal that does. I don't even care enough to point out others, and I'm sure you'll say that I don't even know of any...Oh, please hurt my feelings by not believing me. I know enough about politics to know that none of it is needed. We'd be much better off without any of it. I know what the liberals are all about - whining and expecting everything for nothing. You seem to think I'm sided with the Moral Majority and the conservatives. I very clearly stated that I would have nothing to do with either of them, as I don't think they have the interests of my country in their tiny brains. They're all selfish. Anyone who bothers with politics deserves no respect. It's all a joke, which is what I've been trying to point out. I certainly despise the liberals more than the conservatives, but I believe both sides are wrong. If you think I'm wrong, listen to NPR for a few days and tell me the liberals aren't worthless. It's obvious to me that you don't get it, which is what I would expect from a liberal - close-minded to anything you don't agree with. Every Republican I've ever come across is reasoning when I speak views that don't agree with them. The liberals though...They'll exclude you from their little clique and brand you satan himself if you believe in gun rights or if you don't believe in global warming or if you shop at Wal Mart. Liberals are the most pathetic people in the world. They expect free health care. They want everyone else to suffer because they do. They want the government to take care of them, because they can't do it themselves. I could go on and on with this, but it won't get anywhere, because people don't see liberalism for what it truly is. Most conservatives I've met are more liberal than the liberals I've met. From what I've seen in all of the GTA games, they really do rag on liberals more than the conservatives, but I really think they're of a similar opinion to mine when it comes to politics - It's all a joke. I'm done with this nonsense, it's boring now. These are my beliefs, my standards for life. I don't care if you don't get it, I can sleep peacefully knowing that I take care of myself and don't depend on anyone for anything. I don't have to depend on the government for my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnygorgeous Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 . Liberals are the most pathetic people in the world. They expect free health care. They want everyone else to suffer because they do. They want the government to take care of them, because they can't do it themselves. I could go on and on with this, but it won't get anywhere, because people don't see liberalism for what it truly is. Most conservatives I've met are more liberal than the liberals I've met. You actually believe free health care is a bad thing you are so out of touch with the values of the GTA universe, if you didn't pick up on that then you are blinded by your own bias. You say your despise the left and the right but all you talk about is two political parties not political doctrines, the world is bigger than the two main parties in America, which as a nation is extremely right wing, you forget that you have been brainwashed against the actual left, try reading history before bringing your offensive small minded nasty little right wing views to a discussion which you blatantly don't understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major underscore Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 Let's get this discussion back to the topic please: does GTA IV have a political bias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlitement Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 The origins of the term left wing are in the French revolution where it was used to describe radical ideas contrary to the ruling elite. And it's "left" because they would sit more to the left from the speaker's perspective in parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooner Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Hey guess what, I have no political affiliation... but Republicans are good and Dems want to take away my guns! (Just kidding, I'm not really a dumb ass ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Replay107 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I don't think you can really look at it from a 'black and white' perspective, as many people have said the whole nature of the game is just to put a mirror up to each extremity of the political spectrum, however I suppose you could argue that satire is itself a liberal concept. In my mind the feeling I get from the stylist nature of the GTA series, is just take a step back and really look at things and then you'll realise that many people take things far too seriously, whether you're complaining about climate change, religion, censorship or just the price of petrol. I mean come on we're all just gonna die anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzaH Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 They've always poked fun at both the left and right, so I don't think they are bias in either direction. It's really just a pisstake on the whole system from one end of the spectrum to the other since both ends are flawed. Off topic for a minute, your sig looks really delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) Does it have a bias? Yeah, it does. Does it have a real political affiliation? No. The game itself pokes fun at both left and right in America, but the right is poked fun at a lot more. There's no liberal news organization, the liberal radio is pretty much nothing compared to the conservative radio with Richard Bastian saying "We need to monitor peoples email, we need to outlaw all the wrong religions!" etc... the game itself points more fun at the right than the left.. like civilians on the road screaming " TERRORIST " whenever you drive badly or push them, it's all making fun of ultra right social conservatives mostly. Reality has a liberal bias Oh, and LOL @ Democrats pushing for censorship Edited July 6, 2009 by Irviding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major underscore Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 I'm personally pretty sensitive about biases in the media (I live in a country where our first TV station that wasn't run by the state appeared in 1988...). I noticed a political bias in the previous games, but at a level that didn't bother me much as I think that an honest effort was made to keep it somewhat under check, but unfortunately I think that these biases became much more pronounced in IV. The portrayal of a sensationalist bias ("People on fire!") and an unhealthy focus on celebrity reporting is one thing, but I think that Rockstar Games may actually have made a conscious marketing decision when making IV that their audience probably had certain political views and that they would deliver a product that catered to that world view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnygorgeous Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Personally I am all for that, I think that George W Bush politicised mainstream culture in a way not seen since the 60s. When the right no longer plays by the rules why should proponents of the left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
major underscore Posted July 14, 2009 Author Share Posted July 14, 2009 Personally I am all for that, I think that George W Bush politicised mainstream culture in a way not seen since the 60s. When the right no longer plays by the rules why should proponents of the left As I see it, Rockstar Games did seem to have taken care to not go completely overboard with the political bias in their previous games, although the slant was always there, so why would they suddenly change this for GTA IV? Were the script writers suddenly collectively radicalised or was it just a marketing decision to go this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Goose Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 i think it is, particularly for a company based in Britain/east coast, easier to mock the right. However, I do not think they mocked the left to the full like they did in VCPR in VC for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnygorgeous Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I think its also partly because the right is a lot easier to make jokes about, just look at stand up comics, most of them would probably claim to be neutral yet they all can't help but ridicule American conservatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollercoaster Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well the right is ridiculous after all so why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic_Al Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 As I see it, Rockstar Games did seem to have taken care to not go completely overboard with the political bias in their previous games, although the slant was always there, so why would they suddenly change this for GTA IV? Were the script writers suddenly collectively radicalised or was it just a marketing decision to go this way? GTA IV is the first GTA set in the present since 2001. IV's satire is relevant to current events and so it stings more than Vice City and San Andreas which are about the 80s and 90s (although they did sneak Freedom Fries, a reference to recent politics in 2004, into San Andreas). I think my fellow Americans should admit there's a difference between bias and point of view. Bias wants one outcome over another. Point of view may just notice things that are strange. Brits and Scots probably aren't very personally invested in American politics, but they observe what seems strange to them. Hypocrisy is pretty universally despised regardless of ideology and I think they took fair shots at absurd ideas on the right and left. When GTA IV was written, the right had been in power in America for a pretty long time, so joking about what America had become in that time seems like taking shots at who was in power while that happened. Anyway, it's hard to talk about bias objectively because someone who is themselves biased will think someone in the middle is on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 There's no real bias in this game. The only thing that strikes me that may be even a little political is showing how an immigrant in a strange city can so easily get sucked into crime. Niko just wanted to get by, but ironically it was other immigrants like himself who get him dragged into a big mess. So the game almost shows how a huge ethnic melting pot can sometimes just exhibit the worst aspects of humanity. Poor people making life difficult for other poor people. It's almost sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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