Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!

    1. GTANet.com

    1. GTA Online

      1. The Diamond Casino Heist
      2. Find Lobbies & Players
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Vehicles
      5. Content Creator
      6. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Online

      1. Frontier Pursuits
      2. Find Lobbies & Outlaws
      3. Help & Support
    3. Crews

      1. Events
    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

      1. PC
      2. Gameplay
      3. Missions
      4. Help & Support
    2. Red Dead Redemption

    1. Grand Theft Auto Series

    2. GTA 6

    3. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    4. GTA IV

      1. The Lost and Damned
      2. The Ballad of Gay Tony
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
    5. GTA Chinatown Wars

    6. GTA Vice City Stories

    7. GTA Liberty City Stories

    8. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    9. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    10. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
    11. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    1. GTA Mods

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Red Dead Mods

      1. Documentation
    3. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    4. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Rockstar Games

    2. Rockstar Collectors

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Movies & TV
      5. Music
      6. Sports
      7. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    3. Gangs

    1. Announcements

    2. Support

    3. Suggestions

Breaking Bohan

Universal Healthcare

Recommended Posts

Breaking Bohan

In USA any person has access to healthcare, the only catch is that you have to pay a bill after you get the care. Today, lots of people dont want to pay for health insurance, and would rather have the govt provide this care for them.

 

Problem is, the govt still has to pay for this. I don't understand how the govt can possibly afford to do so. Does anyone know, or have any realistic suggestions?

 

 

Also, if you have national healthcare where you live, is it great or what?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Otter

It's fantastic. The government pays a portion (from tax revenue) and you have to pay provincial medicare. In my case, that's $54 per month.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
General Goose

In the UK, we have it. It works pretty well, and usually they'll treat you alright. It has A LOT of problems, and some hospitals are absolute sh*t, but that's not really a problem with universal healthcare and a problem with other parts of the system, like individual hospitals and the bureaucracy for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nlitement

We have both public (part of the Nordic welfare system) and private healthcare here in Finland.

 

It's great, but if you're an adult and want your teeth fixed faster for example, you can go to a private dentist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Breaking Bohan

Does the national health program ever limit your ability to get healthcare in any way? Do you ever have to wait for doctors or care?

 

 

And do these programs put lots of financial strain on the government? I suspect that the govt will be even more broke (if that is possible) if they had to pay for everyone's healthcare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Digital Warlord.
The Irony is that the weakest becomes the new strongest when he decides to just jump on the carriage. Even socialism must follow Darwinian survival of the fittest. Since I am a pure capitalist I am going to be the best socialist that I can be when the new order finally arrives. Thanks for the free lunch, suckers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Seachmall
Does the national health program ever limit your ability to get healthcare in any way? Do you ever have to wait for doctors or care?

Universal healthcare doesn't mean you can't use private services. Here, in Ireland, you may have to wait a few hours to see a doctor if you're in the city however you can just go to a private GP or hospital if you can afford it.

 

And do these programs put lots of financial strain on the government?
I think there are too many factors involved in government finances to put blame, or part blame, on any one aspect. I'd say it does put some strain on the Govt. but at the end of the day the benefits far out way the costs, in my opinion anyway.
Even socialism must follow Darwinian survival of the fittest.
Social Darwinism is complete bullsh*t and is just a misrepresentation of what Darwin suggested, it's a way people try to justify being pricks that has no origin in the natural world.
Since I am a pure capitalist I am going to be the best socialist that I can be when the new order finally arrives. Thanks for the free lunch, suckers.
Yay, good for you. sarcasm.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike Tequeli
Does the national health program ever limit your ability to get healthcare in any way?  Do you ever have to wait for doctors or care?

Universal healthcare doesn't mean you can't use private services. Here, in Ireland, you may have to wait a few hours to see a doctor if you're in the city however you can just go to a private GP or hospital if you can afford it.

 

Actually it does, in some cases. Single payer health care means there is only one source of health care for the most part, in Canada it didn't fully work and was easily abused, so they reduced the total nature of the coverage. Some private health in Canada is actually banned though, which is my main problem with the single payer system. I would love to have what you just described, it is simply more efficient and it reduces money spent on health care by the government significantly.

 

I suppose its what I've been advocating in the other health care topic, but it went way the f*ck over everybody's heads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dingdongs

Universal healthcare is a must in America. We're the only industrialized nation without it.

 

Sure, one can say that it's just a dumb government bureaucracy, but how do you perceive a massive corporate bureaucracy to be better than a massive government bureaucracy?

With corporate, for-profit bureaucracies you get insurance companies who deny almost every claim that comes to them.. when I was younger I had strep throat all the time and I couldn't get a tonsillectomy because the insurance company said I needed to have 12 in a year or something.. even though the doctor wanted it removed. Then there are insurance companies who rescind coverage as soon as their client actually gets sick, and other despicable practices... We desperately need universal health care, not only to provide healthcare to the poor and needy, but also to protect people from these sorts of abuses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
makeshyft
Problem is, the govt still has to pay for this. I don't understand how the govt can possibly afford to do so. Does anyone know, or have any realistic suggestions?

Yeah. If the US Government stopped spending an absolutely retarded amount of money on the military, universal healthcare could be rolled out quick smart.

 

We have it here, and I have never experienced a problem whilst waiting for medical care. Sure, I have to pay more income tax than I would have to otherwise, but I don't have to shell out money for health insurance, either. It gives you peace of mind, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Digital Warlord.

 

Problem is, the govt still has to pay for this.  I don't understand how the govt can possibly afford to do so.  Does anyone know, or have any realistic suggestions?

 

They can't. That doesn't stop them from spending money, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
General Goose

So, the government can't pay for universal healthcare, yet it can pay for consultants and nukes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Omnia sunt Communia

I believe that universal healthcare is a must for any modern, civilized nation. The single payer has it's obvious downsides, as Otter mentioned, and that's why I believe that there should be both private and public healthcare available. Those people who can afford private healthcare should be welcomed to it, after all, it's there money, they can do what they want with it.

 

However those on lower wages or living below the breadline should not be forced to pay out sums of money "in case" they get ill. People have the right to healthcare just like they have the right to an education. Would you start charging children to goto school?

 

I think England has a half-decent healthcare system. Everyone can recieve the free healthcare they need and even though we are forced to pay for some things (like perscriptions); those fees can usually be waved if you are of a certain age, recieve benefits or otherwise cannot afford them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ciabatta

I think there needs to be universal health care but at the same time I think we need to give people who want the option of private healthcare that option to do so. This way, people who can afford healthcare and do not want to be on a 'waiting list' to be treated for whatever ailment they have can do so. This way we can still have private practices, so on and so forth. That way instead of it being a fully socialist endeavor it is half-and-half, just like our market system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
makeshyft

 

I think there needs to be universal health care but at the same time I think we need to give people who want the option of private healthcare that option to do so. This way, people who can afford healthcare and do not want to be on a 'waiting list' to be treated for whatever ailment they have can do so.

Yes, that is the general model. You are welcome to sign up for private healthcare in Australia, and when it comes time to fill out your tax return, you don't have to pay the medicare levy.

 

The thing about universal healthcare is this: if you are expected to pay income tax which may or may not be used for things that you agree with, then your government has an obligation to ensure that you're healthy enough to work, and to continue paying tax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FFRJ

I beleive every advanced country needs a Public Option for health care that will FULLY cover you. If Obama doesn't get this done I'm going to be pissed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
major underscore

 

Does the national health program ever limit your ability to get healthcare in any way?  Do you ever have to wait for doctors or care?

 

And do these programs put lots of financial strain on the government?  I suspect that the govt will be even more broke (if that is possible) if they had to pay for everyone's healthcare.

Sure, if you need something (like a hip replacement) that's not urgent you can have to wait months or years here in Sweden if you rely on the public healthcare system, like most people do. There was a bit of a scandal here a few years back when our former socialist prime minister got his hip replaced at a private clinic instead of waiting in line like they want the ordinary folks to do. There is a constant criticism from the left about the very existence of private alternatives, as this, they claim, is "unfair".

 

The way it works is that the public healthcare sector creates waiting lines when they can't afford more operations within the budget. There is never an unlimited supply of funds but the "needs" are always infinite as spending increases to match available funding. There is constant pressure on politicians to reduce these waiting lines, thus inflating the healthcare budgets year after year.

 

Oh, and we do have to pay health insurance, that's for sure. And going to the doctor or dentist isn't free at all. That's what you get in a country with some of the heaviest tax burdens in the world. I'm still waiting for this extreme tax burden to translate into that socialist utopia we've been promised...

 

Edit: Changed the first sentence a little, as it could easily be misunderstood.

Edited by major underscore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Breaking Bohan

Hmmm - I still don't see how the country is going to pay for a healthcare system that would cover anymore people than are covered today.

 

I don't see how the care could possibly be better for people who currently are covered, when the doctors are then required to treat many additional people that they did not cover before ---- People are going to have to wait for care! (it will effectively be rationed, will it not?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vinnygorgeous

America is one of the richest nations in the world, much less affluent countries manage it so there is no practical reason why America could not afford one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ciabatta

Well vinny's right, we can print MORE money and pay for it and we still won't have the hyper-inflation that Germany had after the "War to End All Wars".

 

Do you think America is alright with the fact we have to pay for propping up banks with that had the political power to get TARP money? Many people are not thrilled about a huge financial revamp in healthcare after, let's see, billions in TARP money and the $787 billion in stimulus money (with also ludicrous talks of a second), as well as the deficit we are running under (its currently at $11 Trillion). If there hadn't been a recession and there wasn't all this pork-barrel spending I am sure people would be fine with it but adding one bill onto the next in this climate is the road for rapid inflation. Also, I don't know if you know this or not but California is currently writing IOUs to pay off their debts.

 

edit: Also there are some European examples with mild success but still there are problems and flaws within a universal system. Although Obama cries that universal healthcare needs to be revamped before 2010, I think there needs to be more focus on what needs to be done with the global economic downturn.

Edited by Ciabatta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Breaking Bohan

This is going to be the biggest govt-funded boondoggle ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vinnygorgeous

To suggest that implementing a national health service would lead to hyper inflation is just daft, if your politicians were free to act without corporate interests dictating policy you wouldn't be in the mess your are in. I suggest that you look to the Cuba example, a country plagued by ideologues in the US determined to destroy the economy, infrastructure and system and deny them any medicinal imports, yet they have maintained a first world national health care system, if they can do it then what possible excuse does your country have.

 

"The health status of the Cuban population, vastly improved by the health care system since 1960, provided a sound foundation which could not be easily eroded. By the 90s, Cuban children were being vaccinated against 13 childhood diseases -- more than any other country in the world, including the United States. A host of diseases had been eradicated altogether, infectious diseases were at a minimum, and Cubans were dying of the same chronic conditions described in the mortality charts of industrialized countries. A significant socio-political corollary was that the majority of Cubans trusted the health care system to work for them.

 

One of the hallmarks of the Cuban health system since the early 1980s has been its research results and applications -- ranging from high-tech biotechnology and vaccine R&D, to broad community-based epidemiological studies on chronic diseases.

 

The health system - its universal access and coverage, as well as statistical records - has provided the formidable backbone for research, enabling massive informed-consent participation in clinical trials of new medications and vaccines, as well as longitudinal studies on conditions such as chronic vascular diseases and cancer.

 

The Cuban philosophy is “closed-loop” research, in which investigation priorities are based on priority health problems that need solving, whether outbreaks of disease (such as meningitis or hepatitis); the financial urgency of replacing expensive imported drugs; or the conditions that come with aging. Research is carried out, and then results applied nationally and/or internationally, thus “closing the loop.” Vaccine research is currently being carried out into such “neglected diseases” as cholera, dengue, tuberculosis and leptospirosis.

 

In addition, the universal nature of the health system has greatly facilitated national studies on key topics. One such study on the disabled has led to reforms in the health and education systems to more adequately meet the needs of these persons. (See Por la Vida, Casa Editorial Abril, La Habana, 2003.). National registries - in everything from sickle cell anemia to twins - have also been developed as a way to direct better attention to specific populations within the country.

 

As Cuba emerged from the economic hurricane of the 90s, the country’s health system began to share its experience more widely with other developing countries, engendering South-South synergies that continue to develop today, both in medical services, research and medical education (see Cuba and Global Health http://www.saludthefilm.net/ns/cuba-and-global-health.html).

 

Edit: working link

Edited by vinnygorgeous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ciabatta
To suggest that implementing a national health service would lead to hyper inflation is just daft, if your politicians were free to act without corporate interests dictating policy you wouldn't be in the mess your are in.

I didn't argue that national health care is not a good idea, I argued that it is not a good idea NOW. So you suggest we print and spend money we DON'T have in order to deal with this. We are running under, once again, a $11 Trillion deficit. It is not daft to think about our country's deficit as it stands now that it is almost reaching $12 Trillion, it's common sense. And once recovery happens, prices will rise and our money (hyper inflation was a little exaggerated) will go through a state of inflation (how big that inflation is is yet to be determined).

 

As for your Cuban example, their public health system was created in the 60s BEFORE the current global economic crisis. If we had achieved it in the 60s during "The Great Society" era of LBJ we could probably be alright. You also have to understand that on top of American taxpayers not only paying for socialist programs such as welfare and Social Security, we will also have to pay TARP money and Stimulus money. Social Security is almost not even an option for some people right now due to the fact that the government has to earn so much in revenue to pay it off to those who are eligible.

 

As for the part about our healthcare system, it has its flaws just like any other system, capitalist or socialist. Those ones in Europe and the Cuba reference you gave have their flaws just like ours does. Somebody from your country (General Goose) on this topic stated, "In the UK, we have it. It works pretty well, and usually they'll treat you alright. It has A LOT of problems, and some hospitals are absolute sh*t, but that's not really a problem with universal healthcare and a problem with other parts of the system, like individual hospitals and the bureaucracy for example."

 

Just like the United States it works pretty well and they'll treat you alright but it has A LOT of problems. The United States spends about 17 percent of GDP on its health care, the highest globally and gets little in return. Although it is a problem, the suggestion I have come to is that Universal Healthcare should be put on the back-burner until the economy recovers and the deficit is trimmed.

 

Also, your link to your film of the Cuban health care system came up with an error.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clem Fandango
I suggest that you look to the Cuba example

That is a blatant falsehood; Cuba has terrible health care, unless of course, you are a government official:

 

 

 

Does that look like a system you'd like other countries to emulate? So yeah, great system, the sicker you are, the more priority you have to rot in a delapitated hospital room, while doctors can't treat you, and you might starve to death. sarcasm.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Otter
and you might starve to death. sarcasm.gif

Yep, but that's Cuba in general. Trade embargoes are a bitch. That and Communism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vinnygorgeous

Well the World Health Organization and UNICEF beg to differ with you on that one Melchior

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clem Fandango
Well the World Health Organization and UNICEF beg to differ with you on that one Melchior

You must have missed the consumer report I posted. The UN only reports statistics that the Cuban government gives to them.

 

 

Yep, but that's Cuba in general. Trade embargoes are a bitch. That and Communism.

Vinny said Cuba has a first world health care system. If you're likely to starve to death in the system, it can hardly be classed as ''first world''.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vinnygorgeous

The fact that Cuba has accomplished what it has (recognised as the best health care system in the undeveloped world and is being used as the model for other countries) is a testament to the Cubans, all of the problems with scarcity in Cuba are not the result of the system or poor management but the constant victimisation by the Americans.

 

Edit: I just watched that video Melchior posted and I have to say that simply from a technical point of view it was a very poor piece of journalism, if this is where you get your world view from then suddenly it all makes sense. Is this the same news network that told you George W Bush is one of the most left-wing presidents in history or that the Laffer curve is founded in reality.

Edited by vinnygorgeous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike Tequeli
Edit: I just watched that video Melchior posted and I have to say that simply from a technical point of view it was a very poor piece of journalism, if this is where you get your world view from then suddenly it all makes sense. Is this the same news network that told you George W Bush is one of the most left-wing presidents in history or that the Laffer curve is founded in reality.

If you aren't going to explain why then you shouldn't even bother to bring it up. I mean its 20/20 for Christ's sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vinnygorgeous

I just meant it wasn't very objective which is the mark of good journalism, opinion is not fact. Sorry I just assumed it was obvious what I meant.

Edit: it was a cheap shot, I regret posting it but there's no point deleting it now

Edited by vinnygorgeous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • 1 User Currently Viewing
    0 members, 0 Anonymous, 1 Guest

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.