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Clem Fandango

The Sweden Effect

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Mike Tequeli

It is only fairly recently that our health care system has gotten more private, which in the end is an inevitability. If the United States did find a (relatively) cost effective method of single payer health care, then they would soon find a system needing reform from inefficiency and abuse. I wouldn't hold our system up as a great example of two-tier health care though, I'd look to Switzerland or maybe Australia. Most private health care is still banned in Canada.

 

I wouldn't be stunned if the colon cancer thing was true though, wait times aren't consistent throughout the country, some provinces have inadequate medical personnel or funding.

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Otter

I still don't understand the argument that long wait times can increase the incidence of colon cancer. That's like saying that waiting too long for a haircut is the cause of male pattern baldness. Once a colonoscopy detects a problem - that's it. You've got it. And our survival rate is pretty much on par with American rates.

 

Anyhow, I agree with the sentiment that Canada's system is not the perfect ideal some would lead others to believe. I do, however, have more confidence in our system that one that is almost entirely private. Corporations have no reason to care about their customer when there's no viable alternative for them to turn to when they're treated poorly. Governments must appease the people lest they be voted out on their asses. Besides, I'd rather my tax money went towards social programs than billion-dollar military weapons research.

 

I think both extreme ends up choking one group of people or another. I'm sure that the perfect system, if one is ever to exist, lies somewhere firmly between the two. How or if it's ever discovered beats me, but IU suppose I can agree with the original post in the thread - it's not to be found in Sweden.

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Mike Tequeli

Well I meant detection rates, I honestly have no clue though.

 

I actually don't think a private system would be terrible though, I mean a completely private unregulated, non-corporatist system would be pretty good at providing health care for most. The real problem is the revered "socialist-capitalist" hybrid that everybody who thinks they know what they are talking about spouts in economic discussions. What you get is the horrors of greed mixed with the inefficiencies of socialism, and that is why America pays more taxes on health while receiving almost nothing in return. So when I propose universal health care I really mean government sponsored private health care, or something like it. Where people can profit off health and do a fine job of it, and the coverage is universal and relatively cheap.

 

When you describe people not having choices, that if often the fault of government interference, the American health market is far from unregulated.

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bobgtafan
Well I meant detection rates, I honestly have no clue though.

 

I actually don't think a private system would be terrible though, I mean a completely private unregulated, non-corporatist system would be pretty good at providing health care for most. The real problem is the revered "socialist-capitalist" hybrid that everybody who thinks they know what they are talking about spouts in economic discussions. What you get is the horrors of greed mixed with the inefficiencies of socialism, and that is why America pays more taxes on health while receiving almost nothing in return. So when I propose universal health care I really mean government sponsored private health care, or something like it. Where people can profit off health and do a fine job of it, and the coverage is universal and relatively cheap.

 

When you describe people not having choices, that if often the fault of government interference, the American health market is far from unregulated.

It's just badly regualted because of corpated interest.

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Mike Tequeli

It's badly regulated because politicians are retarded. To be fair nobody should expect bureaucrats and politicians to run something more efficiently then an entire industry can. You cannot blame everything on corporate interests.

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SWEETSAPRIK

Personally, I think sometimes drug companies get a bad rap.

 

I mean don't get me wrong, they're a company, so by definition they're going to do everything they can to make money, and sometimes the things they do are crappy, sometimes downright evil. Like I have a problem with them being able to find an alternate use for a drug right before it would be up for other companies to make as a generic, and then that resets the clock.

 

i.e. Right before the time their exclusivity runs out they find some other use for an anti-depressant, like as an anti-smoking aid, and they get to keep the drug theirs alone for longer. That's pretty crap.

 

At the same time, if I have a problem and there are only a handful of drugs that can help, I'm glad that the drugs exist in the first place. If a drug company spent billions of dollars and a decade and a half developing, and testing the drug, they should at least be able to recoup their costs, and hopefully make some profit as well. If they couldn't, they wouldn't have thrown billions of dollars at it, and the drug might not have been developed and tested, and I might not be able to use it at all anyway. It's not like the government is looking to spend ten plus years and billions of dollars on the development and testing of these drugs, especially if there is no way to recoup the money spent.

 

I mean these are companies, if they can't make a profit on something they won't bother with it. With quite a few of these drugs we only have access to them because there was a profit in it for someone. Then later, the generics are that much cheaper because the company selling the generic didn't have to spend billions developing it, they just looked up the patent and spent those years waiting, getting ready for their chance to sell someone else's work. Since they have no costs to recoup, they can sell it for anything just over their cost to pump them out, and still make a profit.

 

I think that's a perfect example of a situation where either too much, or too little regulation can cost lives.

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