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  • 0
Viperelite

Anti Aliasing....

Question

Viperelite

Someone for the love of god please tell me how to get AA. Even with the settings maxed it still looks like a sloppy piece of sh*t. It totally breaks immersion for me and i simply cannot play with little stepladders going all over the place. What did you guys do. A Console Port FFS. angry.gif

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john88z

For the love of god please stop these threads.

You cry like baby.

 

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juscal

If you'd used 30 seconds of your time, you would have known that AA can't be achieved.

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Jc84144

Some people are slow.

 

Welcome to 2009. Games are starting the realise they need to use lots of geometry and lots of lights. For this, a deferred renderer is the fastest, and pretty much the only one which can have the amount of lights on screen GTA requires. However, in deferred rendering hardware AA is not possible. It's a small trade off (yes, I said small, because personally it's not that important to me, especially when at high resolutions).

 

The only way a deferred renderer can simulate AA is either with a line detection and blur, or rendering at a much higher resolution and down sampling in real time. Either way, they both perform like crap, and people would moan why is it being so slow.

 

If something so small breaks immersion for you, than I feel sorry for you.

 

If you don't believe this story, please feel free to use your own time researching it. In fact... that may have been the best thing to do in the first place.

 

P.S. not pressing your face against the screen helps. Try to sit a meter back. As well as improving the visuals, this may also have other benefits such as preventing you going blind. colgate.gif

Edited by Jc84144

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YoungGun

Lets make a huge topic over on the Nvidia forums! devil.gif

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juscal
Lets make a huge topic over on the Nvidia forums! devil.gif

How will that help? Nvidia is doing nothing wrong. It's Rockstar's fault.

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JohnZS

Deferred rendering can support FSAA if done "correctly" sadly this would require using a DirectX10/DirectX10.1 render path which would alienate the XP user base who are confined to DirectX9

I am not clever enough to know the full ins and outs as to why it works in Direct3D 10, but I believe you can use 16-bit-per-component frame buffer (64 bits total). MSAA anti-aliasing support is only on DirectX 10 as Direct3D 10 render path caters for this.

For more information see Windows Advanced Rasterization Platform (WARP) In-Depth Guide

John

 

 

 

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MitchyK

Using WARP, it very well could be that AA could be enabled using the deferred render method employed in gta iv, however as you correctly point out that would alienate the xp users, who are when all is said and done the "backbone" of the gaming community, so not financially viable.

They could make two seperate versions, one for xp, one for vista, also not financially viable.

Last but not least, most people have enough trouble getting acceptable frame rates as it is, so adding AA would just cause even more headaches.

Personally AA isn't the be all and all for games in my view. It's nice when it's there, but give me a game like gta iv, with action, humour, betrayal etc, Basically a hollywood flick, i control, and i'm happy.

Anyone getting hung up on the lack of AA is missing out on the story! I had my fair share of teething problems with this game and even now find weird bugs, but i still love it and no AA will not change that.

As has been said, higher resolution and sitting back a bit help!

If you can't run at higher resolutions, you shouldn't even be thinking about turning AA on anyway!

 

MitchyK

biggrin.gif

 

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Gen0cide_

 

Using WARP, it very well could be that AA could be enabled using the deferred render method employed in gta iv, however as you correctly point out that would alienate the xp users, who are when all is said and done the "backbone" of the gaming community, so not financially viable.

They could make two seperate versions, one for xp, one for vista, also not financially viable.

Last but not least, most people have enough trouble getting acceptable frame rates as it is, so adding AA would just cause even more headaches.

Personally AA isn't the be all and all for games in my view. It's nice when it's there, but give me a game like gta iv, with action, humour, betrayal etc, Basically a hollywood flick, i control, and i'm happy.

Anyone getting hung up on the lack of AA is missing out on the story! I had my fair share of teething problems with this game and even now find weird bugs, but i still love it and no AA will not change that.

As has been said, higher resolution and sitting back a bit help!

If you can't run at higher resolutions, you shouldn't even be thinking about turning AA on anyway!

 

MitchyK

biggrin.gif

Aww come on, you both just sound daft now.

 

 

When has a PC game ever been released supporting JUST DX10. Every game released out there with DX10 support has also had a DX9 mode. Hell, games like Unreal Tournament 3, which use every facet of DX9 under the sun still worked (albeit glitchily) on my brothers DX8.0 laptop, even though everyone under the sun knows that DX8 is light years behind even 8.1, let alone DX9.

 

Rockstar could have easily invested the money they spent encrypting the file format of the cars on something more useful, like a DX10 mode frame-buffer that used 16bit, or importing the API's from DX10 that MS use to support DX10 (and can easily be brought to XP to make those Frankenstein DX10 on XP configs you hear about) and utilising a 16bit FB on DX9, as that's all it would take.

 

Doesn't really matter with this game though, as the Framerate would be unplayable, especially without SLi $500+ cards.

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MitchyK

I'm not saying they shouldn't have, i'm just saying AA isn't as important to me as it is to others, and the main reason for them not doing it was probably money, and/or time. I think they've achieved a lot with gta iv, and i personally can't wait for the next instalment, to see what they add, maybe it will be AA, maybe it will be a eurofighter you can tear up the streets with, or maybe it will be a powerised motor scooter!

We'll wait and see.

But at the end of the day companies like rockstar will have to keep "wasting" money on DRM, because when all is said and done they want to protect their investment.

Which is fair enough i think. I love this game so i paid for it, i do actually download cracked games off the net, i play them for a bit, if they're good, i buy them, if they're not i delete them. I don't trust game demo's. they tend to show you the best bits and leave out all the cr*p, just like film trailers. so i download games and if i like/want them, i go out and buy them. But there are plenty of people who download then don't buy them.

So companies will keep spending on DRM even though we all know it's a few hours usually before they're cracked. mostly because it at least stops less techically minded people making copies for their mates.

So back to the point, no AA shouldn't be the big deal it is, is all i'm saying. At times it is quite obvious but i play 1680x1050 and when i'm doing a ton down the freeway, i tend not to be noticing the little jagged line along my bumper, and paying a bit more attention to the idiot in the police car who pulled out in front of me with his lights going!

 

MitchyK

 

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JohnZS

I think all they would need to do is code a native render path (in a patch) which would use Direct3D10 if present, the joy of this is with Windows 7 just around the corner (October the 22nd confirmed official release date), more people will benefit from this.

Windows 7 comes with DirectX11, which is basically the same as DirectX10 except it is highly tuned for performance and GPGPU processing. (Obvioulsy there are differences but the differences between 10 and 11 are a lot less than between 9 and 10)

IMHO it's not a big deal to do this, lots of games have DirectX 10 support, Bioshock, Unreal Tournament 3 (both use Deferred Rendering and support FSAA on Vista in DirectX10 mode), Crysis, Call of Jarez, Farcry2, Company of Heroes, World in Conflict and I'm sure a lot more.

Whether people like it or not, Vista/Windows 7 are the way "forward", Grand Theft Auto IV is an amazing game, but is sadly let down by the lack of polish, finesse and finishing touches.

A native 64-Bit exe to take advantage of Extra RAM would be beneficial and the Direct3D 10 code path.. JUST for FSAA and performance improvements would also be beneficial too.

It's almost as if R* "ported" the XBox360 version of the game to the PC using Direct3D9 constraints instead of developing something new from the ground up for the PC.

Edit

I play @ 1920*1200 and feel that 2X FSAA would add that bit of class (reduce jagglies on the suspension bridges and fences. Performance is pretty good for me, I only get the occasional stutter, which I am sure is patchable or a driver bug of some sort as there is no sure way to reproduce the sutter (I can have lots of explosions and car chases with silky smooth frames, yet sometimes I get stutter) just driving in town with not a lot going on.

John

Edited by JohnZS

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Gen0cide_

 

Stuff.. (No offence, just shortening my post)

 

MitchyK

 

I used to until I got steam, now its all so easy, and usually cheap that I don't bother, I'll just buy the full game. but I still keep in touch with the pirate world just to see how things go, (The demo "scene" is cool), and DRM really isn't cost effective. The Sims 3 had its $200,000 DRM cracked 3 days before the game was released.

 

GTA had the DRM cracked and put on-line nearly 2 weeks before the game was released!? If that's how easy it is to do, and the companies are spending hundreds of thousands on dollars on it, why not do what Sins of a Solar Empire did, and just use a standard key? (Most of us still bought that game and it peaked in the chards for ages!)

 

 

Stuff.. (No offence, just shortening my post)

 

I think all they would need to do is code a native render path (in a patch) which would use Direct3D10 if present...   

 

 

The native renderpath is such an easy thing to do, all the code is already in place. AA is handled by the drivers, so all they have to do, is add a DX verson check and use a 16bit renderpath. The path can be exactly the same otherwise.

 

 

About 7... That all forgets the fact that people who got XP and went up to vista then downgraded cos they didn't like it will still be extremely resistant to 7.

 

And R* did directly port it, thats why all texture has to be stored in GFX memory and we all need colossal cards to run meagre textures, because the devs couldn't be @rsed to cater for the fact that PCs have far more RAM that GFX memory. Thats also why they didnt touch DX10, becasue they did very little coding to make the game PC compatible, seeing as Xbox 360s already use modified DX9.

Edited by Gen0cide_

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Not to flush you peoples hope of AA with this game, but incase you have forgotten we have got got a patch for it in months, with no promise of further support for the game. With no mention about DLC for the PC.

 

GTA 4 should have and could have easily being 64bit and dx10 native, but no they did a average port and kept it strictly DX9... gross

 

I personally think GTA4 would benifit hugely from DX10.1, then ATi users could have 2-4x AA without the FPS going down the tube.

 

But we are stuck with the jagged artifacting mess.

 

Even the 360 version has 2x aa, at least you could of given us that R*!

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Murcchachosa

I wish this game GTA IV PC was great optimized

than by lazy R* monkey(....).

R* are too lazy (...._heads who doesnt know to optimize a game better.

My native res is 1920x1080 and plays the game on 1024x768.

Near 1000 pixels less.

Just suck as sucking sh*t.

They just screwed up the game.

"Optimized for 64bit OS" My ass.

Sometimes I got memoryleak, these stutterings fixes doesnt help.

Even 4GB RAM could not save me.

But the most annoying is the jaggyness, like the most ppl

are facing at it.

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JohnZS
Not to flush you peoples hope of AA with this game, but incase you have forgotten we have got got a patch for it in months, with no promise of further support for the game. With no mention about DLC for the PC.

 

GTA 4 should have and could have easily being 64bit and dx10 native, but no they did a average port and kept it strictly DX9... gross

 

I personally think GTA4 would benifit hugely from DX10.1, then ATi users could have 2-4x AA without the FPS going down the tube.

 

But we are stuck with the jagged artifacting mess.

 

Even the 360 version has 2x aa, at least you could of given us that R*!

[email protected]

This could be a sign that R* are working on an extensively complicated patch which takes more than a month or so to create, so far all patches have taken a month to push out, that includes coding and testing time, IMHO if there IS going to be a 1..0.4.0 then it is going to be a significant patch. Perhaps it might bring us 64-Bit enhancements? or the DirectX10 render path we all crave for.

 

Gen0cide_

I cannot see why people hate Vista and 7 RC so much, IMHO Vista was "broke" when it was released way back in 2007, but SP1 resolved a lot of issues, SP2 has refined it even more, I have since moved onto Windows 7 RC, and to me it is pretty much the same as Vista, albeit slightly better memory management I now get 14,818 3d Mark Vantage points instead of 14,589 I got with Visa (not much of a difference but a difference in the right direction).

 

It is sad how they ported the game, but as I said to [email protected] with any luck the delay between 1.0.3.0 and hopefully 1.0.4.0? is a good sign and shows they are doing some serious coding for us PC gamers.

 

On a lighter note I am still enjoying the game and I think it does rock many socks off, just with that extra bit of Polish, Finesse, and Gloss it really could have been something...epic

 

John

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Lucian04
I wish this game GTA IV PC was great optimized

than by lazy R* monkey(....).

R* are too lazy (...._heads who doesnt know to optimize a game better.

My native res is 1920x1080 and plays the game on 1024x768.

Near 1000 pixels less.

Just suck as sucking sh*t.

They just screwed up the game.

"Optimized for 64bit OS" My ass.

Sometimes I got memoryleak, these stutterings fixes doesnt help.

Even 4GB RAM could not save me.

But the most annoying is the jaggyness, like the most ppl

are facing at it.

Wow.. Most intelligent post I've seen all day.

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vinshine

For all those who blame people in need of AA, plz shut the f* up!

 

AA is really very very important for us,

 

when u wander in the liberty city, and want to enjoy the landscape of it, u will feel so terrible seeing the jaggies. It's like a beautiful girl with hundreds of black points on her face.

 

So plz, if there is a chance, just give us, we do need AA!

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NikoCarlTommyFidoJohnson

Hey you all are dreaming. The Rage engine was designed for the Xbox360 considering Table Tennis was a Xbox360 exclusive. The euphoria engine is a xbox360 motion 's engine. Let's face it, this game was never in any way made for PC. If you want to play a game with AA that is optimised right, you will have to play Mafia II. GTA IV will not be getting a new patch, and frankly Rockstar will not watse it's money on it. They are coding the DLC's for the xbox360 and you will have to buy a xbox360 if you want AA, point blank

 

No AA

No DX10

No DLC

No new patches!

 

Let's face it The PC platform is dead and no one gives a hoot!

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JohnZS
Hey you all are dreaming. The Rage engine was designed for the Xbox360 considering Table Tennis was a Xbox360 exclusive. The euphoria engine is a xbox360 motion 's engine. Let's face it, this game was never in any way made for PC. If you want to play a game with AA that is optimised right, you will have to play Mafia II. GTA IV will not be getting a new patch, and frankly Rockstar will not watse it's money on it. They are coding the DLC's for the xbox360 and you will have to buy a xbox360 if you want AA, point blank

 

No AA

No DX10

No DLC

No new patches!

 

Let's face it The PC platform is dead and no one gives a hoot!

How do you know all this?

R* Said in an interview over at IGB that PC gamers will be getting some form of DLC and that they intend to support the game

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Exhonour

Why do you cry so much?

 

Im playing with 20 FPS with low settings, texture flickering/tearing, low res and I still enjoy the game.

 

-.-

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NikoCarlTommyFidoJohnson

To JohnZS

 

 

Early off during the second or third trailer, it was announced that the xbox360 will recieve 10 Episodic contents back as early as 2007. Back when their was no mention of a PC port of GTA IV. I do not think they will break that promise. With TLAD and BOGT already out, they have eight more episodic contents left. Even the PS3 will not be getting any DLC, but it does have AA and support.

 

Face it, I play PC games, but many people buy consoles because PC gaming is such and expensive and time consuming platform. Rockstar only gave three patches because they knew the game was messed up, but now most problems are either from lack of hardware, low hardware, or software/hardware conflict.

 

To be frank, I did not even expect them to even make this game and found out one week before it was coming out that they would release it.

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MonkeyMhz
Not to flush you peoples hope of AA with this game, but incase you have forgotten we have got got a patch for it in months, with no promise of further support for the game. With no mention about DLC for the PC.

 

GTA 4 should have and could have easily being 64bit and dx10 native, but no they did a average port and kept it strictly DX9... gross

 

I personally think GTA4 would benifit hugely from DX10.1, then ATi users could have 2-4x AA without the FPS going down the tube.

 

But we are stuck with the jagged artifacting mess.

 

Even the 360 version has 2x aa, at least you could of given us that R*!

Xbox360 did not have 2xAA. The consoles used the fugly blur thing.

 

Tbh, the no AA doesen't bother me that much, and really, it would be nice if it was there. But its just not gonna happen, get over it.

 

 

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MonkeyMhz

 

To JohnZS

 

 

Early off during the second or third trailer, it was announced that the xbox360 will recieve 10 Episodic contents back as early as 2007. Back when their was no mention of a PC port of GTA IV. I do not think they will break that promise. With TLAD and BOGT already out, they have eight more episodic contents left. Even the PS3 will not be getting any DLC, but it does have AA and support.

 

Face it, I play PC games, but many people buy consoles because PC gaming is such and expensive and time consuming platform. Rockstar only gave three patches because they knew the game was messed up, but now most problems are either from lack of hardware, low hardware, or software/hardware conflict.

 

To be frank, I did not even expect them to even make this game and found out one week before it was coming out that they would release it.

PS3 does not have AA in it either. Where the hell are you guys getting ur stupid information.

 

The consoles are not using AA in GTAIV, they used the fugly smeared blur mess (aka P button).

 

To use AA with Defered Shading you need OGL3/DirectX10 level Hardware which we all know the Xbox360 and PS3 do not have.

 

*Also to other of you out there, dont mention AA if your PC has trouble running GTAIV, if they did add AA with DX10, it would bog performance a fair amount. Remember, some complex shaders may have to be iterated over 12-16 times for each pixel.

Edited by MonkeyMhz

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NikoCarlTommyFidoJohnson

The xbox360 did have Anti-Aliasing, the PS3 used defintions like PC, but that is because this game was designed for the xbox360

 

The xbox360 did not have high AA, but it still was there.

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JohnZS

We shall see, I hope you are wrong as it would be nice for R* to release a significant patch for GTA IV PC bringing many fixes, optimisations and enhancements to the table... one can only wish?

 

MonkeyMhz

Yep, the consoles use some sort of DOF blur filter that looks horrid, you can achieve the same on the PC by turning off definition in the video options, it would be nice if there was a "slider" for this setting as I think a little bit of blur (just a tiny bit) would take the nasty edge of some of the jagglies and soften the leaves on the trees... even add a bit of distance blur too

The Blur has potential, just the "On/Off" switch is overkill IMHO

 

John

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Dcrysis02
The xbox360 did have Anti-Aliasing, the PS3 used defintions like PC, but that is because this game was designed for the xbox360

 

The xbox360 did not have high AA, but it still was there.

"Kevin Hoare: Early on we decided we weren't going to support DirectX 10. We were just going to work on increasing the visual quality with what we had with DirectX 9. If we had DirectX 10 support we could have had the AA in there, but we don't have any."

 

Xbox uses the modified version of DirectSh*t 9/c which is not DX10.It can use a few features that Dx10 has, but under no chance did the Xbox360 version have AA.

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Viperelite
Hey you all are dreaming. The Rage engine was designed for the Xbox360 considering Table Tennis was a Xbox360 exclusive. The euphoria engine is a xbox360 motion 's engine. Let's face it, this game was never in any way made for PC. If you want to play a game with AA that is optimised right, you will have to play Mafia II. GTA IV will not be getting a new patch, and frankly Rockstar will not watse it's money on it. They are coding the DLC's for the xbox360 and you will have to buy a xbox360 if you want AA, point blank

 

No AA

No DX10

No DLC

No new patches!

 

Let's face it The PC platform is dead and no one gives a hoot!

No. Its called R* is lazy. How in any way is the PC dead? Its way better then any "Next Gen" console in a number of ways.

 

1. Better Graphics

2. More then just games

3. More mature users have PC so we dont have to listen to as many little children whining cus they suck like on consoles

4. Modability - Game mods are a huge thing in PC games. You can take a game with 10 hours of content and turn it into a 100 hour saga with a few downloads

5. Dont have to put up with the dual noobsticks

6. Not a rip off. It costs Microsoft around 75$ to build an Xbox. And they sell them for 200. Thats worse then dell....

7. You cant upgrade a console.

 

And whoever said Xbox GTA 4 has AA youre a retard. Its a sh*tty blur effect which ruins the graphics. Rarely do any Xbox games go above low settings for a game with any AA or AF at all.

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Lucian04

Mis-information abound once again (This isn't aimed towards the knowledgeable ones) so I'll post what I posted in another topic here:

 

 

1) The Xbox 360 cannot perform any sort of Direct X 10 effects what so ever. The version of DX9 it uses is modified with some Direct X 10 Code which is true. But said code is strictly for dynamic memory use allowing the 360 to share the same memory with a multitude of hardware/software without the need to have dedicated memory like the PS3 or PC's do.

 

2) While the Xbox 360 is capable of performing anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering with little performance hit thanks to it's built in 10mb of Edram, it cannot perform anti-aliasing + hdr with deferred rendering. It instead relies on Post Process Effects both designed by the developer and any back end effects produced by your HDTV's. I have tested this with my PC connected to both my 1080p Plasma HDTV and my 1080p Asus Monitor and where as my image is crisp and clean on my monitor, with my HDTV I noticed a slight post process like blur which helped to smooth out some niggles here and there.

 

* As a side note, before you start going "Well Unreal Engine 3 games have AA on 360", I'm going to let you know that this is false. Unreal 3 Engine games only support AA in DX10, something the 360 cannot do. Most 360 games using the Unreal 3 engine have a lot of code built in from Unreal Engine 2.5 which can perform AA in DX9. Games like GRAW, R6 Vegas, Bioshock, etc all have a lot of modified UT 2.5 code in it allowing for certain things (like AA) to be possible. True U3 games like Gears of War and Unreal Tournament 3 use a ton of post processing effects and a form of Edge Blurring to give you an AA like effect with little performance hit.

 

3) Most any recent Nvidia GPU's can perform AA w/ Differed Rendering in DX9 with a performance hit.. ATI Cards can only perform AA with Differed Rendering in DX10 and DX10.1. Also note that the Xbox 360 uses a customized version of the X1950Pro (lb for lb the specs are the same on Paper) and the only difference between it and the PC version of the same GPU is that it uses a Unified Shader Model (IE: Can use any Shader programmed for it) and has 10mb Edram built in specifically to offload AA/AF tasks for the card which no PC GPU has today.

 

 

4) Both the 360 version and the PS3 version upscale from 720p and 640p respectively. They both use a very heavy post process filter (I dub it the Glamor Filter) to hide disgusting jaggies and other graphical imperfections like the MS Paint like Shadows.

 

Note that the Rage Engine scales with resolution. Even though there are quality scales in the PC version, resolution makes the biggest determining factor as to how good the game looks. Play GTA IV at 1280x720 at max settings and then play it at 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 and you will see a considerable change in the sharpness of shadows, reflections and even the post processing effect. Using the Ultimate graphics tweak and Realistic Environments can give you a near flawless look at 1920x1080 or 1900x1200 without the need for downsampling unless you really want that AA like look and can deal with the performance drop.

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Nietzsche's God

 

Why do you cry so much?

 

Im playing with 20 FPS with low settings, texture flickering/tearing, low res and I still enjoy the game.

 

-.-

Why you say? Well for starters ppl have high standards, which you don't and I am surprised to see ppl like you exist.

 

There is nothing wrong with high optimization. And R* surely has missed the point and I am sure when they do make the next installment of the GTA series, they will learn from the mistake about shadows, shaders and other things. GTA 4 still the best game I think that is around and from what I see since GTA3, it has always improved again and again.

Edited by Nietzsche's God

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Black-hawk

 

Why do you cry so much?

 

Im playing with 20 FPS with low settings, texture flickering/tearing, low res and I still enjoy the game.

 

-.-

Because you're a communist and accept whatever is given to you without any complaints.

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Dcrysis02

I don't know if R* has learned it's lesson.Anyway, we will face our next challange this winter if i heard right.Max Payne 3,(developed by R* Vancouver) uses RAGE and Euphoria too.So we will see just how much R* has learned from it's past mistakes.Hopefully, that game will be more optimized.Although that is not a sandbox game as far as i know, so maybe we can't expect big progress because of that reason.We will see.

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