New GPU time!

[cold fusion 33]

Ok dudes, thanks for all the help . Cheque should be coming through the post tomorrow or Saturday, so the 8800GT will be ordered then and then the 9500GT will be going on Ebay and then I'll be getting the 500W OCZ stealth for the PC... Which will all probably mean I'll be without the 9500GT for about 3 days and I'll be relying on my 6100LE integrated . That I am not looking forward to...

I should be able to get the PSU in OK, I've done it a couple of times before on an old AMD Athlon PC and a P4 PC, so the process shouldn't be too different now I suppose... Just newer parts in the machine and SATA cables .

 

Cold Fusion

 

Ps, Syphon, what are your PC's specs? And if you have a game like IV, could you post a benchmark? It sounds like you have a lot of knowledge on subjects like this and so it'd be interesting to see what rig you have and how it performs .

Edited June 11, 2009 by cold fusion 33

[SyphonPayne]

Sure, here are my specs, and a few 3-month-old benchmarks of GTA IV:

 

 

Manufacturer: 

SyphonPayneCorp™ (all speeds listed are 24/7)

 

Processor: 

Intel® Core2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.2GHz (400x8)

 

Memory: 

Crucial Ballistix 6GB (2 x 2GB, 2x1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 @ 800MHz (1:1 FSB:DRAM) (PC2 6400) Dual Channel 4-4-4-12 2.0V

 

Hard Drive: 

1.2 TB Total

 

Video Card: 

EVGA NVIDIA GTX 260 Core 216 Superclocked Edition (648/1404/2106MHz)

 

Monitor: 

Dell W3207C LCDTV, Dell E151FPp, TV

 

Sound Card: 

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro

 

Speakers/Headphones: 

5.1

 

Keyboard: 

Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard

 

Mouse: 

Logitech G5

 

Mouse Surface: 

Mouse Pad

 

Operating System: 

Windows Vista™ Ultimate (6.0, Build 6002) Service Pack 2 (6002.lh_sp2rtm.090410-1830), Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (6.1, Build 7000) (7000.winmain_win7beta.081212-1400)

 

Motherboard: 

MSI P45 Platinum (Intel P45 Express) with Tuniq Tower 120

 

Computer Case: 

Antec Nine Hundred

 

Benchmarks:

 

 

Statistics

Average FPS: 42.74

Duration: 37.11 sec

CPU Usage: 72%

System memory usage: 76%

Video memory usage: 97%

 

Graphics Settings

Video Mode: 1360 x 768 (60 Hz)

Texture Quality: High

Render Quality: Highest

View Distance: 25

Detail Distance: 37

 

Hardware

Microsoft® Windows Vista" Ultimate

Service Pack 1

Video Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260

Video Driver version: 185.20

Audio Adapter: Speakers (2- Creative SB X-Fi)

Intel® Core2 Quad CPU    Q6600  @ 2.40GHz

 

File ID: Benchmark.cli

 

 

Statistics

Average FPS: 61.16

Duration: 37.05 sec

CPU Usage: 69%

System memory usage: 71%

Video memory usage: 68%

 

Graphics Settings

Video Mode: 1360 x 768 (60 Hz)

Texture Quality: Medium

Render Quality: Very High

Reflection Resolution: Very High

Water Quality: Very High

Shadow Quality: Very High

View Distance: 25

Detail Distance: 37

Definition: On

VSync: Off

 

Hardware

Microsoft® Windows Vista" Ultimate

Service Pack 1

Video Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260

Video Driver version: 182.08

Audio Adapter: Speakers (3- Creative SB X-Fi)

Intel® Core2 Quad CPU    Q6600  @ 2.40GHz

 

File ID: benchmark.cli

 

From FRAPS, since the GTA IV "benchmark" isn't very accurate, I did the most intensive things I could do such as 6-star cop chases in Star Junction, tons of explosions, lots of peds being run over, etc a couple of them had v-sync on hence the "max" of 62 :

 

 

2009-03-11 23:15:11 - GTAIV

Frames: 17738 - Time: 527225ms - Avg: 33.644 - Min: 18 - Max: 62

 

2009-03-15 16:29:01 - GTAIV

Frames: 49064 - Time: 1360380ms - Avg: 36.066 - Min: 19 - Max: 62

 

2009-03-21 13:15:08 - GTAIV

Frames: 50233 - Time: 1474067ms - Avg: 34.077 - Min: 17 - Max: 75

 

This is all with my Q6600 @ 3.2GHz. I have my GTX 260 overclocked higher now than it was when I did those benchmarks, but GTA IV rapes CPUs so much that GPU overclock hardly affects it. Also if you're wondering about the resolution I play on a 32-inch HDTV. One other thing, some of them are with different settings and drivers so it's not really easy to compare them with each other, but the only setting I really fiddled with was texture quality.

 

[cold fusion 33]

Niceee rig man . Sounds like you have been having a lot of fun with that!

 

Cold Fusion

[SyphonPayne]

Thanks dude, GTA IV is a beast though but if you tweak it a bunch I can see it running decently on your comp, with better-than-console settings.

 

I noticed you mentioned 8800GT, not 8800GTS? You decided to go with that? That's cool, 8800GT will not disappoint you, I had an 8800GT before I got this GTX 260, it could max out all but two games I owned at the time, which were Far Cry 2 and (of course) Crysis. Still ran them on the second-highest settings though .

[anus]

I noticed that too. Don't go with the 8800GT when the GTS is the same price. It'll serve you better than the 8800GT.

 

Getting the GTS over the GT when they're the same price is a bad decision IMO.

[SyphonPayne]

Well he said the 8800GT was $5 cheaper, so I figured he REALLY was tight on money or something.

 

Heh if you can afford the $5 premium then yes go for the 8800GTS 512 lol.

 

Is there any particular reason you chose the 8800GT? Or was it just a typo?

[anus]

Ah yeah. But IMO the extra £5 for the GTS is worth the extra shaders .

[cold fusion 33]

Nah, sorry, it was just me making mistakes . I had never really heard of a GTS before you replied to this topic, so now, when I think of getting an 8800, I automatically make the mistake of calling it a GT . Im sure I'll get used to that though .

 

About GTA IV, mine is already running at a decent 30FPS there abouts, but with settings sorta low-medium, but I don't care, it still looks great and I can crank the traffic density right up, that's all I care about .

 

I was looking it PSU videos last night because, well, before this topic, I didn't really know a lot about PSU's either, I mean, to me it was just, 550W and that's it, it doesn't matter whether it's a cheapo brand or an expensive one, I thought it was a sort of show off thing to have a neat black PSU with LED's and stuff in your PC. But I was watching videos of them simply dying, before they even got to 100% of their capacity. They were the PSU's that come with a case and are really crap... Im glad you informed about the cheap PSU risk and Im glad I'll be getting the OCZ now .

Edited June 12, 2009 by cold fusion 33

[cold fusion 33]

Nice bump here, but I just bought an XFX 8800GT 512MB from eBay, because I couldn't get an account properly set up with the store I was trying to originally buy the 8800GTS... I guess it's no terrible shame about having a GT instead of a GTS though . But, I did have another look and it said it was something like PCI-E 2.0... Would my motherboard support 2.0?

 

 

Cold Fusion

[SyphonPayne]

Uh... What mobo do you have?

 

EDIT: Regardless, whether your mobo supports PCIE 2.0 or not is no matter with the 8800GT. It is backward-compatible with PCIE 1.0 and PCIE1.1, and there are very little (if any) performance differences between PCIE 1.x and 2.0.

Edited June 23, 2009 by SyphonPayne

[Slamman]

I just read the latest Maximum PC, lots of CPU and hardware related coverage, almost exclusively, also a direct Q and A with Microsoft about Vista and Windows 7. The issue is such a good reference, I plan to pick it up later! If you wonder about cheap or expensive and plan some overclocking, and new hardware purchases, this issue out now is a real help! AMD Phenom II reviewed, some graphics cards and the Intel planned products. Seriously! This one is packed with good stories.

[cold fusion 33]

Right, the card arrived today, after being f*cked around by the company I ordered it from. In compensation for wasting my time, they sent a f*cking 8800GTS 640MB for the same price as I bought the 8800GT 512MB!

 

Now for the PSU, will this one do? It's the same site as I got the 8800GTS:

http://www.awd-it.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=3848

 

Cold Fusion 33

[anus]

Uh dude, you got ripped off. The 8800GT is faster than the 8800GTS 640MB. They aren't really compensating, they're giving you a card worse than what you paid for.

 

The PSU would do fine, but if I were you, I'd stop buying from that place.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Warlord.

[Fozzy Fozborne]

Ouch, the GTS is older, hotter, slower, and less expensive than the 8800GT.

 

The reason is it's based on a larger manufacturing process (90NM I believe rather than 65) along with other tweaks to the architecture.

[cold fusion 33]

Welllll, meh I guess... At least the damn thing arrived. Although I had been under the impression that the 8800GTS was better than the 8800GT from the posts Warlord and Syphon Payne put in this thread a while ago...

Here's some quotes from SP:

 

So if the 8800GTS 512 is £75 and the 9800GT is £75 I would personally go for the 8800GTS 512.

 

(The 8800GT is essentially the same card as the 9800GT, yeah?)

 

 

Anyway, yup, the GTS 512 is the best option out of those three smile.gif .

 

 

I noticed you mentioned 8800GT, not 8800GTS? You decided to go with that? That's cool, 8800GT will not disappoint you,

 

 

Well he said the 8800GT was $5 cheaper, so I figured he REALLY was tight on money or something.

 

Heh if you can afford the $5 premium then yes go for the 8800GTS 512 lol.

 

A post of Warlords:

 

Yep, Syphon pretty much summed it all up. The 8800GTS is your best option.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant, but what the f*ck? You said that the GTS was better than the GT and encouraged me to get that? Either way though, I'm sure the GTS will still thrash the 9500GT, this is the one with 320bit memory bus and DDR3 memory...

 

Edited July 8, 2009 by cold fusion 33

[leik oh em jeez!]

If it's a newer (G92)8800GTS, then it will be faster, but the if you're comparing an old 8800GTS to a new 8800GT, then the 8800GT would probably be a little faster due to the new GPU. If they both have the same GPU, then the 8800GTS will be faster. (Unless it's the 320Mb version, then it would be about the same.)

 

But Any of them should be ALOT faster than the 9500.

 

Please note that this is based on my limited and somewhat out-dated knowledge on NVIDIA 8 and 9 series graphics cards.

I haven't been looking at graphics cards lately.

[Fozzy Fozborne]

They said the GTS 512 MB was better (which it IS), the 640MB is not. The GTS 512 is based on the newer technology employed in the 8800GT/9800GT where the 640 and 320 are based on the technology behind the 8800GTX/Ultra.

[anus]

You were talking about the 512MB GTS first, and that is better than the 8800GT, but the 640MB and 320MB 8800GTS cards are quite a bit slower than the 8800GT. Fozzy said it best .

 

nVidia really needs to fix their sh*tty names.

[SyphonPayne]

Blame NVIDIA for the sh*tty naming scheme and the retailer for f*cking around with you and also exploiting your lack of knowledge on the different models (no offense).

 

Note in almost all of my posts I said 8800GTS + 512, because I was differentiating between that and the 640. At the time I was not aware you would be dealing with a 640 though, so I did not elaborate on the difference between the 512 and 640.

 

Regardless, if you're stuck with the 8800GTS 640, not a huge deal, still whips the 9500GT's ass any day of the week, and can run 99% of today's games.

[cold fusion 33]

Pah, Ok I guess, nothing any of us could have done about it. I didn't know I was getting the 640 as a replacement, hell I didn't even expect to get a replacement for it when they f*cked up on delivering the first card .

 

Could you please posts the specs of the GT? How much slower is the GTS? Like killingly slower? With the specs for the GT I mean like memory bus width, no. of shaders and clock speeds? Does it even make a difference if I have a newer version of the 640? I think I do anyhow, the thing's never been opened and stuff, but I guess that doesn't mean it couldn't have been sitting in a store room for a couple of years or something...

 

Thanks for the help guys .

 

Cold Fusion

Edited July 9, 2009 by cold fusion 33

[SyphonPayne]

Comparison

 

Memory bus width doesn't matter so much as the actual memory bandwidth.

 

8800GTS 640 has a measly 6.4GB/Sec memory advantage over the 8800GT at stock speeds, because even though it has a slightly wider memory bus width (320-bit vs 256-bit,) the memory is not clocked as high, so yes the 640 has an advantage in that area, and the fact it has 128MB more memory.

 

The pixel fill rate is only 400 MPixels/Sec higher in the GTS 640 @ stock, but pixel fill rate doesn't matter nowadays so much as this:

 

The texture fill rate of the 8800GT is 21600MTextels/Sec higher than the GTS 640, which matters more-so for today's games.

 

The G92 processor in the GT can do 105.6GFLOPS more than the GTS 640 as well.

 

The GT is built on the 65nm (sometimes 55nm in the case of the 9800GT) process versus the older/hotter/more power hungry 90nm process in the GTS 640. Hence, the GTS 640 uses 42 more watts than the GT.

 

The GT has 112 shader processors versus the GTS 640's 96 shader processors, for a total of 16 more shader processors in the GT.

 

The GT has 56 texture units versus the GTS 640's 24, for 32 more texture units.

 

The GTS 640 has 4 more raster operators than the GT.

 

Now for your clocks, which just like memory bus width, do not always necessarily matter as much due to different archetectures having different efficacy, but generally the G92 architecture is better clock-for-clock than the G80.

 

The 8800GT:

 

Interface: PCI-E 2.0 x16

Core Clock: 600 MHz

Shader Clock: 1500 MHz

Memory Clock: 900 MHz (1800 DDR)

 

The 8800GTS 640:

 

Interface: PCI-E x16

Core Clock: 500 MHz

Shader Clock: 1200 MHz

Memory Clock: 800 MHz (1600 DDR)

 

Now these are all just on paper, benchmarks are what really show the difference, and overall the 8800GT tends to beat out the 8800GTS 640, but once again the 8800GTS 512 beats both.

 

For the 8800GTS 512's on-paper specs and comparison with the 8800GT click here.

 

8800GTS 640 vs 8800GTS 512

 

Generally the 8800GT is right in-between the 8800GTS 640 and the 8800GTX, and the 8800GTS 512 is in some (if not a lot) cases faster than the 8800GTX.

 

8800GT vs 8800GTS 640:

 

8800GT vs 8800GTX:

 

EDIT: I suppose there is the rare chance that your 8800GTS 640 is the 112-shader version, which is on-par (maybe a tad slower, depending on the game) with the 8800GT, but there's a very slim chance of that. To verify that all you have to do is go into your NVIDIA control panel, click help> system information and look at the entry for "stream processors" if it says 96 you have the plain-jane 8800GTS 640, if it says 112 then congrats it's on-par with the 8800GT .

Edited July 9, 2009 by SyphonPayne

[anus]

If I were you, I'd ask the store for a 8800GTS 512 or your cash back. I mean, there is quite a difference between the 8800GTS 512 and the 640.

[cold fusion 33]

Well, if I was a major gaming enthusiast, I guess I would ask for my money back, but I'm not, so I'm gonna stick with the GTS I've got for now, hell, it's always gonna be faster than the 9500GT, and I don't have enough time to mes around chasing these people up... Thanks for the post Syphon, it was really helpful . Damn nVidia with their sh*tty bad brand naming scheme . So, Warlord, will the PSU I posted work with this card? As you say, the GTS I got uses more power than the GT, so maybe the OCZ 500W isn't enough? The box says minimum 400W PSU and recommends a 600W PSU...

 

EDIT: The guy on the phone promised my mum that the card would be 10% faster than the 8800GT 512MB Alpha Dog I originally ordered, so either this guy was bullsh*tting and trying to get rid of the 640 GTS to me, or he meant I was getting the 112 version, yeah?

 

God damn, who knew PC components could be so damn irritating .

 

Cold Fusion

[anus]

Nah, that PSU would work fine. 600W is really overkill for that card. It would be more than enough really .

 

Only cards like the GTX285 need such high powered PSUs .

 

You could check to see if it's the 112 shader version with GPU-Z. Just see what is says in the "Shaders" field. If it's 96, it's less powerful than the GT and even less than the 512 GTS, but if it's 112, you're one lucky guy .

[3niX]

Well...

 

While there is a chance something got mixed in the process (logistics is tough init) or that you really got that 112 shader version....

I know that some shops/salesmen do that stuff deliberately. Ive had that happen to me a few times. They generally try to bullsh*t their way out of it but in reality they want to get rid of stuff they cant shift anymore.

 

They will try to give you parts which are cheaper/slower etc.

 

I recommend people stand up to this kind of bullsh*t.

[cold fusion 33]

Meh, well, all I care really is that it's an nVidia 8800 series, I don't really mind which type it is now really .

 

Warlord: I would use GPU-Z, but you said I shouldn't use the PSU I've currently got, so the GTS still isn't in my PC... God damn, I wish it could be in there now .

[cold fusion 33]

Ok, just noticed something about the GTS, it has a black connecting port coming off the top of it which the 9500GT does not have... What the heck is this? It's black with six holes in it, two of these holes are squares, four have six sides that are like a square with the top tapered to a slight point... So, what are they? Is it like a power connector? I don't think there are any cables that would fit this type of socket in my PC

 

Cold Fusion

 

EDIT: Sh*t, double post

Edited July 9, 2009 by cold fusion 33

[anus]

Yep, that's the slot where the power cable goes. Your PSU should have a 6 pin connector, if not the video card should've come with a molex to 6 pin converter cable.

 

If you don't have neither of these, you'll have to buy a molex to six pin converter. They're really cheap .

[cold fusion 33]

Hmm, guess I'll be taking a trip to a PC shop soon then... Damn . Well, at least it's impossible for me to give in to the temptation of putting the GTS in with the EZ Cool PSU I currently have .

Does this mean that the GTS needs that 6 pin connector? It won't run off the PCI-E slot itself? That seems odd... I suppose a PCI-E slot wouldn't give enough power, huh?

 

Thanks WL .

 

Cold Fusion

[anus]

No problem man. Happy to help .