Ziggy455 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The Walking Dead, Max Payne 1 and 2, Max Payne Comics. Hell- I'd say it's a legitimate way already! "I might have laughed if I'd have remembered how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The Walking Dead, Max Payne 1 and 2, Max Payne Comics. Hell- I'd say it's a legitimate way already! I disagree. It's seen as childish, its fans are viewed as immature, its adherents are stereotyped as obsessive weirdos. There has been a great, prolonged attempt to slander the medium of comic books and this smear campaign has been very successful. In part, this is because comics do attract fans who are incredibly asocial and unpleasant. Whilst you and I may discuss the subtle quirks of the various characters of Stephen King - a fat woman is in San Diego trying to dress as Wonder Woman. Even if a comic artist creates a work of stunning beauty and depth - the fans often cast a long shadow over their good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy455 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The Walking Dead, Max Payne 1 and 2, Max Payne Comics. Hell- I'd say it's a legitimate way already! I disagree. It's seen as childish, its fans are viewed as immature, its adherents are stereotyped as obsessive weirdos. There has been a great, prolonged attempt to slander the medium of comic books and this smear campaign has been very successful. In part, this is because comics do attract fans who are incredibly asocial and unpleasant. Whilst you and I may discuss the subtle quirks of the various characters of Stephen King - a fat woman is in San Diego trying to dress as Wonder Woman. Even if a comic artist creates a work of stunning beauty and depth - the fans often cast a long shadow over their good work. I see your point. But it's the same with books to some degree. How many people do you think dress up as wizards at conventions based on Harry Potter...Or perhaps vampires because of Twilight? "I might have laughed if I'd have remembered how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VProductions Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 the fans often cast a long shadow over their good work. Fat joke? #OnlyVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The Walking Dead, Max Payne 1 and 2, Max Payne Comics. Hell- I'd say it's a legitimate way already! I disagree. It's seen as childish, its fans are viewed as immature, its adherents are stereotyped as obsessive weirdos. There has been a great, prolonged attempt to slander the medium of comic books and this smear campaign has been very successful. In part, this is because comics do attract fans who are incredibly asocial and unpleasant. Whilst you and I may discuss the subtle quirks of the various characters of Stephen King - a fat woman is in San Diego trying to dress as Wonder Woman. Even if a comic artist creates a work of stunning beauty and depth - the fans often cast a long shadow over their good work. I see your point. But it's the same with books to some degree. How many people do you think dress up as wizards at conventions based on Harry Potter...Or perhaps vampires because of Twilight? Ah, but books have a pedigree. From the Medieval chronicler to the murder mystery author - books will always be respected. There is no stigma strong enough to cast all book-readers with a negative social image. Books are read to children before bed, they are used in social ceremonies such as marriage, they are a sign of intellectualism and refinement. Literature will always retain its reputation as accessible, sometimes high-brow entertainment. Comics might evolve to a point of greater respect when this current generation - weaned on comic adaptations in the cinema - supplant that of the of the past, who held different views on masculinity and 'appropriate' means of entertainment. In some ways, societies acceptance of art is often tied into their sexuality. The rise of metrosexuality in the public consciousness mean that enjoying things like comics isn't as socially prohibitive as it would once have seemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Typhus, if you're interested in what comics can be, check out some of Alan Moore's more famous stuff. I really don't like the medium but Watchmen proposes some great philosophical ideas about perspectives and what it means to live up to your morals, however absolute they may be. It's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Typhus, if you're interested in what comics can be, check out some of Alan Moore's more famous stuff. I really don't like the medium but Watchmen proposes some great philosophical ideas about perspectives and what it means to live up to your morals, however absolute they may be. It's great. I enjoyed Watchmen a great deal. Adrian Veidt is one of my biggest fictional heroes But if you like that specific graphic novel, what is it about the medium in general that irks you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTA-King Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Watchmen proposes some great philosophical ideas about perspectives and what it means to live up to your morals, however absolute they may be. It's great. Love Watchmen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy455 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Watchmen proposes some great philosophical ideas about perspectives and what it means to live up to your morals, however absolute they may be. It's great. It's definitely one of the better comics, Tyler. I like Sin City, which I count as one of Millar's greatest. To be honest with you, besides The Walking Dead, Watchmen, and Sin City, there's not many good comics out there. "I might have laughed if I'd have remembered how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orbitalraindrops Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) A bunch of hot alternative girls I know f*cking love comic books. They don't really read novels much though (or at all). I think the literary merit is lacking when we discuss comics etc but who cares. I get to chat sh*t about dead pool and stare at her chest. Makes me a lot happier than discussing the latest trends in literary fiction with my father. The Preacher comics are INSANE imo. Jesus in it returned to earth to f*ck tons of women and do drugs. There's hypocritical red neck fundie killers, vampires, religous cults, the grim reaper is a cowboy, Guy in it has one testicle etc. It's f*cking quality!. Edited April 13, 2013 by orbitalraindrops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tycek Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Really? What about V for Vendetta or Transmetropolitan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Watchmen proposes some great philosophical ideas about perspectives and what it means to live up to your morals, however absolute they may be. It's great. It's definitely one of the better comics, Tyler. I like Sin City, which I count as one of Millar's greatest. To be honest with you, besides The Walking Dead, Watchmen, and Sin City, there's not many good comics out there. I recommend Punk Rock Jesus. It's an amazing read and all focuses on the concept of a future in which, in a mad dash for ratings, a TV network clones Jesus Christ using the Shroud of Turin. Also see about giving Maus a shot, it's about the treatment of Jews during World War 2 and has one of the most unique art styles I've ever seen. I don't blame you for being lukewarm towards the whole thing, one has to wade through a LOT of sh*t to find the hidden gems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy455 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Really? What about V for Vendetta or Transmetropolitan? f*ck! V for Vendetta too! I'm much more of a reader really. But to be honest with you, I like things with some weight to them. A bunch of hot alternative girls I know f*cking love comic books. They don't really read novels much though (or at all). I think the literary merit is lacking when we discuss comics etc but who cares. I get to chat sh*t about dead pool and stare at her chest. Makes me a lot happier than discussing the latest trends in literary fiction with my father, Pictures. I WANT PICTURES DAMNIT! "I might have laughed if I'd have remembered how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I think the literary merit is lacking when we discuss comics etc but who cares. Well, what would help change that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminence Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 As far as I'm aware, this can be argued both ways, but... do you think we can draw a distinction between comics and graphic novels, or would you say the terms are largely interchangeable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orbitalraindrops Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) I think the literary merit is lacking when we discuss comics etc but who cares. Well, what would help change that? Society to change it's view on comics. How that would happen I don't know. Probably just the natural progression of time. It's already happening to a degree with video games. Just check out indie games such as The Path etc. Edit- I think comics are seen as a very cool niche thing with certain groups of people though. I think the stereotype of it being solely associated with nerds etc has gone especially since a lot of people see it as cool to be "nerdy" now. Edited April 13, 2013 by orbitalraindrops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTA-King Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The thing I like most about comics is how dramatic they can be. The way the words and the pictures are displayed... it just gets you more invested in the story, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 As far as I'm aware, this can be argued both ways, but... do you think we can draw a distinction between comics and graphic novels, or would you say the terms are largely interchangeable? I always believed the terms to be connected with the size of the story. With comics being monthly serials and graphic novels being a large, uninterrupted story. It's mostly a technical thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy455 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 As far as I'm aware, this can be argued both ways, but... do you think we can draw a distinction between comics and graphic novels, or would you say the terms are largely interchangeable? Some people are noted for claiming that Graphic Novels are just a way of flashing up comics so- like Typhus has stated- they're not judged as immature people who can't get past that era of childish comics. I truly believe there's a difference between the length. A comic is shorter version but a Graphic Novel is quite literally a large comic; or perhaps not? Maybe it's down to content itself. "I might have laughed if I'd have remembered how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orbitalraindrops Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I always thought a graphic novel was a hardback of some form and longer. Imo though I don't think there is much different other than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy455 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I always thought a graphic novel was a hardback of some form and longer. Imo though I don't think there is much different other than that. Quite close to what I believe myself! I don't think they'll ever be considered a legitimate form like novels. Which is kinda sad. "I might have laughed if I'd have remembered how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminence Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 On my English course at uni there was a module dedicated to studying graphic novels. Legitimate enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I think the literary merit is lacking when we discuss comics etc but who cares. Well, what would help change that? Society to change it's view on comics. How that would happen I don't know. Probably just the natural progression of time. It's already happening to a degree with video games. Just check out indie games such as The Path etc. I think it's a sad situation, really. Honest to God, have you ever noticed how if anyone actually shows passion for literature they get blank looks? A common man may say how he 'likes' a book, but see what happens when you try to talk about characters, themes, anything of that nature. Blank, dead-eyed stares every time. They 'like' books, but have no opinions. They 'like' books but can't even remember character names. To such a populace, such a gaggle of unmotivated, unemotional dullards - the scrutiny comic readers extend to the medium must be even more off-putting. Because comics are just picture books, right? If there is a bias, I think it's part of a wider anti-intellectual issue in our society. It's like you're expected to enjoy things but pay NO attention to them. And if you do, if you think about symbolism or characterisation you've 'got no life'. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminence Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 If there is a bias, I think it's part of a wider anti-intellectual issue in our society. It's like you're expected to enjoy things but pay NO attention to them. And if you do, if you think about symbolism or characterisation you've 'got no life'. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I sort of do, but also don't. I think that for sure trying to spark up a conversation on the deeper meanings of any given artistic form will draw blank looks from a lot of - if not the majority - of people. But on the flip side, I think it would be a minority that would chastise you for it, saying anything like you've 'got no life'. I don't think I've ever seen that sort of reaction, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy455 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I think the literary merit is lacking when we discuss comics etc but who cares. Well, what would help change that? Society to change it's view on comics. How that would happen I don't know. Probably just the natural progression of time. It's already happening to a degree with video games. Just check out indie games such as The Path etc. I think it's a sad situation, really. Honest to God, have you ever noticed how if anyone actually shows passion for literature they get blank looks? A common man may say how he 'likes' a book, but see what happens when you try to talk about characters, themes, anything of that nature. Blank, dead-eyed stares every time. They 'like' books, but have no opinions. They 'like' books but can't even remember character names. To such a populace, such a gaggle of unmotivated, unemotional dullards - the scrutiny comic readers extend to the medium must be even more off-putting. Because comics are just picture books, right? If there is a bias, I think it's part of a wider anti-intellectual issue in our society. It's like you're expected to enjoy things but pay NO attention to them. And if you do, if you think about symbolism or characterisation you've 'got no life'. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I hate it when I say 'I like books.' and in return people will be like 'Oh my god! Me too! I really love Harry Potter!" "I might have laughed if I'd have remembered how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminence Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 I hate it when I say 'I like books.' and in return people will be like 'Oh my god! Me too! I really love Harry Potter!" I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate, in a sense, here. They like Harry Potter. Okay... Various members here, when asked what books they read, say things like Stephen King, Tom Clancy. Where's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy455 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The difference here is that when I question them about the books; the thematic responses, the characters, or even plot. They look at me like I'm a completely different kind of moron. They don't actually like books- they just choose a popular book to try and fit in with the conversation. If I question them, they falter. If I do find people that actually like books -and that's a rarity- then I tend to try and keep those people in my life. None of my family reads. My sister spends all her time on an iPad and I remember buying her a book once for Christmas. It's still half wrapped somewhere in the house. "I might have laughed if I'd have remembered how." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 But on the flip side, I think it would be a minority that would chastise you for it, saying anything like you've 'got no life'. I don't think I've ever seen that sort of reaction, to be honest. Then you have my sincere, everlasting envy. I can't stand discussing something and being mocked for being passionate. Why ask me about something if you don't actually want to talk about it, you know? If I like something, I analyse it, I form opinions on it. And I don't do it to be pretentious, I do it because I enjoy the sh*t out of it and gain real enjoyment from interpreting characters based on my own opinions. I can imagine no greater affront to a writer or an artist than to say 'oh, that's cool' and leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminence Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Okay, but let's say they do read books, and they have read Harry Potter, and they love it, and they could talk to you all day about its characters and themes and symbolism. What then? Typhus - that's pretty depressing to be honest, if you've received that kind of scorn for expressing either a passion or opinion. I honestly can't picture how that sort of situation would occur, outside of a school, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Bah, taste in literature is more variable than any other medium, other than music, maybe. I personally love unreliable narrators, cyberpunk pulp, Hunter S. Thompson, books about nature as a plot point, books about indulgence, Kurt Vonnegut, that Russian motherf*cker known as Fyodor Dostoevsky, nonfiction science essays, existentialist literature, Franz Kafka, speculative fiction concerning the near-future... and George R. R. Martin. Taste is hard to judge, we only really get to consider the moment and context that we see it in, not the years of reading, examining and speculation on it that comes before or after that moment. Basically, you should all be more like the Tralfamadorians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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