Quantcast
Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
    1. Welcome to GTAForums!   (85,281 visits to this link)

    2. News

    1. GTA Online

      1. Find Lobbies & Players
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Vehicles
      4. Content Creator
      5. Help & Support
    2. Crews

      1. Events
      2. Recruitment
    1. Grand Theft Auto Series

    2. GTA Next

    3. GTA V

      1. PC
      2. Guides & Strategies
      3. Help & Support
    4. GTA IV

      1. Episodes from Liberty City
      2. Multiplayer
      3. Guides & Strategies
      4. Help & Support
      5. GTA Mods
    5. GTA Chinatown Wars

    6. GTA Vice City Stories

    7. GTA Liberty City Stories

    8. GTA San Andreas

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    9. GTA Vice City

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    10. GTA III

      1. Guides & Strategies
      2. Help & Support
      3. GTA Mods
    11. Top Down Games

      1. GTA Advance
      2. GTA 2
      3. GTA
    12. Wiki

      1. Merchandising
    1. GTA Modding

      1. GTA V
      2. GTA IV
      3. GTA III, VC & SA
      4. Tutorials
    2. Mod Showroom

      1. Scripts & Plugins
      2. Maps
      3. Total Conversions
      4. Vehicles
      5. Textures
      6. Characters
      7. Tools
      8. Other
      9. Workshop
    3. Featured Mods

      1. DYOM
      2. OpenIV
      3. GTA: Underground
      4. GTA: Liberty City
      5. GTA: State of Liberty
    1. Red Dead Redemption 2

    2. Red Dead Redemption

    3. Rockstar Games

    1. Off-Topic

      1. General Chat
      2. Gaming
      3. Technology
      4. Programming
      5. Movies & TV
      6. Music
      7. Sports
      8. Vehicles
    2. Expression

      1. Graphics / Visual Arts
      2. GFX Requests & Tutorials
      3. Writers' Discussion
      4. Debates & Discussion
    1. Forum Support

    2. Site Suggestions

Sign in to follow this  
humbaba

Jim Fitzgerald Discussion

Recommended Posts

liquidus119

Yeah, but this is Rockstar North we are talking about here. The only time they ever fix anything is when it is potentially game breaking, and even then they tend to ignore it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LostSoul 301281

 

The death of Jim Fitzgerald presumably comes at the hands of Niko when he chases the two bikers in "No Way on the Subway." However, the guy who is Jim in the original GTAIV was "played by a different actor," i.e., different voice and entirely different character model.  Did anyone notice this?

 

I guess its just a standard retroative continuity issue, but I'm still a little surprised by it.

The best answer is this, TLaD was never specifically planned for during the production of GTA IV.

Sure, we know there was a deal between MS and R* for extra content, but said content never had any specifics until after GTA IV was already on the shelves.

Therefore, Jim was never initially intended to be an important character or to have any specific character model and so a generic biker model was used during No Way on the Subway.

 

The thing that bugs me though is Johnny's outfit.

Why change it so drastically from how it was in the main story?

I actually thought the original outfit was better, and it showed off The Lost logo better.

 

 

Also, I doubt very much that there will be any kind of patch to change things in the main story, e.g. The Lost club(which looks very different in the main story as to how it looks in TLaD).

I know someone who was a focus tester, and his girlfriend works for Rockstar, and he said that it's a memory issue as to changing things like the buildings and adding in the extra vehicles to the main story.

Unless Rockstar can find a way around it, we wont be seeing those changes.

Edited by LostSoul 301281

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nem_Wan

Sorry, TLAD and TBOGT certainly were planned for. The stories of IV, TLAD, and TBOGT were developed in parallel to ensure that everything would fit together reasonably well. The database info and news stories in IV that reference DLC characters is not random. On the other hand, Rockstar wouldn't have started any production of DLC assets or planned any missions (besides the ones that crossover with IV) until IV was done. When they got to that point, some things changed, like the facade of the Lost clubhouse, and Jim's appearance. Rockstar probably doesn't think it's as big a deal as some fans do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
liquidus119
Sorry, TLAD and TBOGT certainly were planned for. The stories of IV, TLAD, and TBOGT were developed in parallel to ensure that everything would fit together reasonably well. The database info and news stories in IV that reference DLC characters is not random. On the other hand, Rockstar wouldn't have started any production of DLC assets or planned any missions (besides the ones that crossover with IV) until IV was done. When they got to that point, some things changed, like the facade of the Lost clubhouse, and Jim's appearance. Rockstar probably doesn't think it's as big a deal as some fans do.

But if they were really developed in parallel to ensure everything would fit together, why are there so many missing pieces in TLAD based on the hints in GTAIV? Why is Clay never mentioned in the police database? Why is Terry listed as a meth dealer instead of a weapons supplier? Why is Leila listed as Johnny's old lady, and Ashley as Billy's? Where the hell is Leila even in TLaD besides a passing reference in a mission cutscene?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nem_Wan
But if they were really developed in parallel to ensure everything would fit together, why are there so many missing pieces in TLAD based on the hints in GTAIV? Why is Clay never mentioned in the police database? Why is Terry listed as a meth dealer instead of a weapons supplier? Why is Leila listed as Johnny's old lady, and Ashley as Billy's? Where the hell is Leila even in TLaD besides a passing reference in a mission cutscene?

They did SOME work ahead of time. Enough to decide who the main three characters are, write some backstory for their gangs, and figure how crossover missions like the museum shootout fit together, at least roughly. There are news stories that go on the air at the "same" time in both IV and TLAD, including some about the Lost that are heard in IV, and deciding what those were committed TLAD in advance to fitting that timeline.

 

They couldn't delay the main game by doing too much advance work on DLC, so they probably had an outline but not a complete script. Things changed when they actually started DLC production after IV was done. They had to put the puzzle pieces together. TLAD did have a delay and there are some confusing moments in the game that suggest content being cut and rearranged. They probably couldn't put together exactly the story they planned when they were making IV.

 

Likewise, plenty of groundwork is laid for TBOGT in IV and TLAD. We know there are four missions Luis has to appear in, and several news stories about Gay Tony and his clubs must correspond to events in the game. There are some things that have to happen, but it's not completely pre-written either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
liquidus119

I'm not saying that they were not planned for, that much is obvious just through The Impossible Trinity alone. I'm just saying that with all the little things they threw in GTAIV that were pretty much abandoned in TLAD, it appears that they were not developed together with GTAIV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
junkpile

btw, got a question about the character models:

 

i just played "idustrial action" (job for the fixer in gta4). the enemies switch and this time the guys i had to kill were members of the lost. one/some of them were exactly the model that was used for the mute in no way on the subway.

 

and we know how much has changed from gta4 to TLAD. my question:

do the characters in the streets, the ones of the lost and the angels of death look like the ones in gta4? i mean the ones hanging out at the burger shot, boabo or alderney?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JOSEPH X
btw, got a question about the character models:

 

i just played "idustrial action" (job for the fixer in gta4). the enemies switch and this time the guys i had to kill were members of the lost. one/some of them were exactly the model that was used for the mute in no way on the subway.

 

and we know how much has changed from gta4 to TLAD. my question:

do the characters in the streets, the ones of the lost and the angels of death look like the ones in gta4? i mean the ones hanging out at the burger shot, boabo or alderney?

It`s a totally different ped set-up for TLAD, with no AoD at BurgerShot, or BOABO. They are at the arm wrestling table at the AoD clubhouse, and appear in a lot of procedurals - I`ve yet to meet any of those AoD peds from IV.

 

The Lost peds are all new too, and they even let on to Johnny when he walks by. In fact there`s new peds everywhere in TLAD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jam And Butter

Someone explain this,

In sonny bargers book, the life an times of sonny barger or sommet like that, in the "Thanks to" page at the begining, one of the people he thanks is Jim fitzgerald.

>.<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kweatherford

look IRL there are more than 1 jims, with me so far... sooo in a video game with DLC's why can't there be more than one Jim Fitzgeralds

I mean there are 2 todlers on the no fly list in the usa because thier names match a terroist

TODLERS! what are they gonna do, make a Diper of Mass Destruction?!?

Edited by kweatherford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ScotchMouth

please excuse me if i may have overlooked something...

 

 

I dont recall the weazel news report. Was Jim verbally named or was it a generic "biker" reference?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kweatherford

Im pretty sure that the news report said Jim Fitzgerald

thats if im not mistaken but im 99% sure it did

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Money Over Bullshit

Yeah it says one of the bikers was identified as Jim Fitzgerald of Alderney

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kweatherford

yea it said something along those lines biggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ScotchMouth

Ah ok! Thanks guys icon14.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tuff Luv Capo

You will see repeating pedestrian models 1000's of times each game, it doesn't mean they are the same people. Simply imagine the biker that went down was just a variable body over an actual character, because his importance was moot at the time. I'm sure Jim's model wasn't even thought of yet. /thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mokrie Dela

Has no one noticed the Zombie Jim rides in TLAD is the same as the ones in GTAIV/this cutscene? I'm thinking this was intentional, as opposed to giving Jim a new bike

 

They changed the model before releasing TLAD... or (i saw some guy here say this) Jim faked his own death, running with the money, Jackie and his kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dillinger8
They changed the model before releasing TLAD... or (i saw some guy here say this) Jim faked his own death, running with the money, Jackie and his kids.

This is what I strongly believe. It's implied early in the game that Jim would more than likely choose his wife and kids over The Lost if sh*t got too crazy. Perfect example of what makes me believe this is when you get the call from an associate of the undercover, the guy who voices him is Wuzi from SA, from the heroin deal gone bad you do with Niko and Playboy X, Johnny has nothing to lose and Jim does. The classic Red Herring is Brian, who actually believes Johnny is the snitch. We're lead to believe it because he's the catalyst for you eventually shooting up a sh*tload of the Lost. During the cutscene before the mission, you see a close up of Jim's face nervously looking back and fourth at Johnny and Brian as they go at each other verbally about who's the snitch in the gang.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ValuedDude

I think R* made the Jim in TLAD as they did because the jim you were chasing did not satisfy their look tastes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mokrie Dela
Perfect example of what makes me believe this is when you get the call from an associate of the undercover, the guy who voices him is Wuzi from SA, from the heroin deal gone bad you do with Niko and Playboy X,

Really? i thought his voice sounded familuar but couldnt put my finger on it. kinda makes sense.

 

 

 

But yeah. I like jim, he seemed like the only true friend of Johnnys(who for some reason i really emphasise wiht :S). Im not sure if i want jim to have run or be killed. The latter, which i suspect is what really happened - like was said the model being changed last minute - makes a more powerful story, but the former is a happier ending, and judging by the ending of TLAD, i'd say Jim WAS killed and the models were changed.

I think jims model was changed because the one in NWOTS was too simular to that of Jason, even though he's seen like twice before Niko wastes him.

still a gd little conspiracy theory about it all makes interesting reading.

 

Another hting i want to know is on This sh*ts cursed, when billy is arrested, Why is he battered? Did he fight the triads while brian ran away cowering like the fat little girl he is? Or will Luiz have a play in it (maybe Gay Tony sends him to steal the drugs form the triads) I also suspect Brian legged it and phoned the cops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wade

I'm guessing it was Jim, but for some reason Rockstar decided to change his appearance for TLaD, maybe because Jim looked too simple to actually be a main/supporting character of the series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
liquidus119

Honestly I think they changed Jim just so nobody would be upset over there not being any black members in The Lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XZGamer71

 

They changed the model before releasing TLAD... or (i saw some guy here say this) Jim faked his own death, running with the money, Jackie and his kids.

This is what I strongly believe. It's implied early in the game that Jim would more than likely choose his wife and kids over The Lost if sh*t got too crazy. Perfect example of what makes me believe this is when you get the call from an associate of the undercover, the guy who voices him is Wuzi from SA, from the heroin deal gone bad you do with Niko and Playboy X, Johnny has nothing to lose and Jim does. The classic Red Herring is Brian, who actually believes Johnny is the snitch. We're lead to believe it because he's the catalyst for you eventually shooting up a sh*tload of the Lost. During the cutscene before the mission, you see a close up of Jim's face nervously looking back and fourth at Johnny and Brian as they go at each other verbally about who's the snitch in the gang.

This

 

He probably thinks that the Buisness with the Peg Heat and stuff, he decides to get out of the game while he can. So. He goez and asks 2 Members of the Lost to hang near Little Italy, with Jims Jacket. Maybe he gets someone to tell Ray of the Location and Bam! They all think he's dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KGBeast

 

Honestly I think they changed Jim just so nobody would be upset over there not being any black members in The Lost.

What the Hell are you talking about? Jim is definitely a Latino-American. Clay is black.

 

Also, Jim did not fake his death. When the police officially report a death, it's based on a whole lot more than 'their jacket'. medical records would have to be verified before anything was confirmed. Jim is dead, get the f*ck over it.

Edited by KGBeast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ChrisMathers3501
Honestly I think they changed Jim just so nobody would be upset over there not being any black members in The Lost.

What the Hell are you talking about? Jim is definitely a Latino-American. Clay is black.

 

Also, Jim did not fake his death. When the police officially report a death, it's based on a whole lot more than 'their jacket'. medical records would have to be verified before anything was confirmed. Jim is dead, get the f*ck over it.

I'm only gonna say this once. Jim is not black OR latino. Jim is white.

 

He's as white as marshmallows, picket fences and skim milk. And his name, Fitzgerald, is as Irish as four leaf clovers, the color green, and getting into a drunken fistfight with your family.

 

And as much as we all wish he'd survived, you're right that Niko pasted his makeup-wearing burnt ass all across the Liberty City subway system. I think the same people who think Jim survived are the same people who think Pete Vance was killed in Vice City instead of Vic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
liquidus119
What the Hell are you talking about? Jim is definitely a Latino-American. Clay is black.

Eh, I always thought he looked and sounded more African-American than Latino-American, but I guess that wouldn't matter if you are raised around bikers your whole life, and I couldn't give two craps either way because Jim is awesome.

 

Regardless, he doesn't look white at all to me. That is why I was so confused as to why they would alter his appearance so drastically, especially when he has a name like Fitzgerald.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MitchJ90

Simple really. No need to over think it.

 

They didn't have his character model or voice so used any old model, TLaD they had one so ignored the fact that in the main one he looks different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Slomojoe

IIRC, Johnny gives the money to Jim and the fat bald biker in the alleyway. But later you meet up with Jim at Ray's while he is being tortured. After that is when Jim dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Leo Colt
look how the character "felix leiter" changes during the james bond movies, from black to white to old to young, etc etc...

This. The only logical explanation is that he has shapeshifting powers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
iiCriminnaaL 49
Posted (edited)

To make it clear, I don't stick by models in case I wanted to know about a character if it was the same one from another game or not. R* confirmed that Jim was the bald biker in GTA IV (game files show that too). I'm not a fan of "He looks nothing like the bald biker in GTA IV, it can't be him kthxby".

But, I guess there's still a chance that Jim is alive. I'm not saying he is alive, but I say he might be alive. I know that R* confirmed the model change issues from IV to TLaD, and it's even shown in the game's files, but mightn't it be a hint for Jim's status when they used his old model for Jim's fellow biker during Collector's Item in TLaD, instead of using the model of the biker who is supposed to be Jim's fellow in GTA IV? And what makes me even think more about it is Jim's eyes and how nervous he was when he was looking at Brian when he said "You ratted him out!" and "Show us your phone. Prove you ain't speaking to the law" to Johnny. Jim might have faked his death with the help of some FIB agents, Stubbs, or whoever. He could've arranged for setting Billy up before the events of This Sh*t's Cursed, telling the government to keep an eye on Chinatown in case Billy agreed about handing over the heroin to the Triads.

 

Maybe that's it, and maybe he's really dead as R* stated to us, and Jim's biker fellow during Collector's Item might and mightn't be a hint either. But after all, who knows?

Edited by Kane49

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using GTAForums.com, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.