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humbaba

Jim Fitzgerald Discussion

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humbaba

The death of Jim Fitzgerald presumably comes at the hands of Niko when he chases the two bikers in "No Way on the Subway." However, the guy who is Jim in the original GTAIV was "played by a different actor," i.e., different voice and entirely different character model. Did anyone notice this?

 

I guess its just a standard retroative continuity issue, but I'm still a little surprised by it.

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ChrisAndy

Lot of threads have been dedicated to this issue... I noticed it myself. Most people think that they just didn't have Jim's character model at that point so he looked different and/or (this is probably more inadvertent) maybe they didn't want to spoil his fate?

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ChrisMathers3501
The death of Jim Fitzgerald presumably comes at the hands of Niko when he chases the two bikers in "No Way on the Subway." However, the guy who is Jim in the original GTAIV was "played by a different actor," i.e., different voice and entirely different character model. Did anyone notice this?

 

I guess its just a standard retroative continuity issue, but I'm still a little surprised by it.

This has been discussed before, but...

 

For one thing, in GTA4, Jim wasn't the fat bald biker with the speaking lines, he was actually the long haired guy behind him - we know this because the fat bald biker makes an appearance with Jim in the Lost and Damned.

 

This is my guess - Jim had a bunch of scars all over his face from being tortured and was more "distinctive" than usual, so he put on a wig and some makeup so Ray's hit squads wouldn't find him...but he and his fat biker friend decided to cause some trouble and got on Ray's radar anyway, so Niko goes and kills 'em, looking for Johnny.

 

I know it's a stretch of the imagination, but retcons are ALWAYS a stretch.

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TomVDC
The death of Jim Fitzgerald presumably comes at the hands of Niko when he chases the two bikers in "No Way on the Subway." However, the guy who is Jim in the original GTAIV was "played by a different actor," i.e., different voice and entirely different character model.  Did anyone notice this?

 

I guess its just a standard retroative continuity issue, but I'm still a little surprised by it.

This has been discussed before, but...

 

For one thing, in GTA4, Jim wasn't the fat bald biker with the speaking lines, he was actually the long haired guy behind him - we know this because the fat bald biker makes an appearance with Jim in the Lost and Damned.

 

This is my guess - Jim had a bunch of scars all over his face from being tortured and was more "distinctive" than usual, so he put on a wig and some makeup so Ray's hit squads wouldn't find him...but he and his fat biker friend decided to cause some trouble and got on Ray's radar anyway, so Niko goes and kills 'em, looking for Johnny.

 

I know it's a stretch of the imagination, but retcons are ALWAYS a stretch.

 

I can find myself in that stretch of imagination.

Well, either way nothing is sure.

 

grtz

Tom

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lostMC

The part you are talking about happens before the final Ray scene. You give the money to Jim, Ray finds him. You meet Ray you know what happens. Johnny drives one way Jim goes the other. Ray sends guys after them. Later Niko shows up and Ray has him go to the majestic. In the niko scene you are talking about, its a fat man and white guy. In tlad Jim is there with fatty. If you think about it. johnny leaves, then jim leaves with the money, fatty stays and white guy comes by. Then niko shows up blasting them to hell. Later on after Jim and Johnny escape Ray, Jim is probaly taken down by Rays guys.....make sence now. But i could be wrong i mean johnny looked diffrent in IV but im sure im right about this. Wait until the next DLC more may be explained.

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RARusk

I originally thought that Rockstar made a mistake with Jim just like everyone else. But then I replayed "No Way on the Subway" and realized that they may not have made a mistake at all.

 

This is what I wrote for my "Lost and Damned" guide at the beginning of the mission "Was it Worth It?""

 

" If you paid attention during GTA IV you knew well in advance that Jim dies

during a motorcycle chase in the subway system.

 

Most people believe that Jim dies during the GTA IV mission "No Way on the

Subway" (Ray Boccino) and that Rockstar screwed up by not settling on Jim's

character model for TLaD or by not removing his name from the news reports

afterward.

 

But I don't believe that Rockstar made any mistakes at all.

 

When you do "No Way on the Subway" (Ray Boccino), Niko will chase two

bikers into the subway. Note how one of them can be quickly killed but the

other is practically invincible until he gets out of the tunnels and into

the Broker area.

 

Since there are supposed to be two bodies in the subway but you can only

leave behind one, and it doesn't look like Jim, then where does Jim come

from? From a second motorcycle chase that occurs right after the first one

you did as Niko.

 

Remember, there is supposed to be a SECOND expansion for GTA IV that is

supposed to be released later this year involving a New Main Character, who

I will call NMC.

 

So, and this is how I believe it to be, NMC arrives at The Lost hideout

right about the same time that Niko does and may even see him start the

first chase. NMC is there to either collect the money for Ray or for

himself. Jim has arrived there shortly after the cutscene at the beginning

of this mission to get the money and gather the remainder of the gang.

 

As NMC enters the building he gets into a firefight with The Lost. As the

last members go down, Jim tries to escape by motorcycle and NMC has to

chase him on one.

 

Jim then goes into the subway to lose NMC. And it is in the subway where

NMC finally dispatches Jim thus making the news reports correct. Niko kills

the unidentified biker in the first chase and NMC kills Jim in the second.

 

The news reports also state an unconfirmed report from a witness saying

that three bikes were involved. I think that the witness saw the first

chase, with Niko, but not the second, with NMC and Jim.

 

Of course, we won't know for sure about this until the next installment is

released. But I think that's how all of this fits."

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KGBeast

 

The part you are talking about happens before the final Ray scene. You give the money to Jim, Ray finds him. You meet Ray you know what happens. Johnny drives one way Jim goes the other. Ray sends guys after them. Later Niko shows up and Ray has him go to the majestic. In the niko scene you are talking about, its a fat man and white guy. In tlad Jim is there with fatty. If you think about it. johnny leaves, then jim leaves with the money, fatty stays and white guy comes by. Then niko shows up blasting them to hell. Later on after Jim and Johnny escape Ray, Jim is probaly taken down by Rays guys.....make sence now. But i could be wrong i mean johnny looked diffrent in IV but im sure im right about this. Wait until the next DLC more may be explained.

No. Jim is clearly identified as having died in the subway during the mission 'No Way in the Subway', in the game.

 

I don't see how anyone can deny this, the news says that three bikes were seen in a chase. One being Niko, one being Jim, and the other being the bald biker. You even see Jim and the same bald biker in the same damn alley from the mission just before it happens.

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ChrisAndy
The part you are talking about happens before the final Ray scene. You give the money to Jim, Ray finds him. You meet Ray you know what happens. Johnny drives one way Jim goes the other. Ray sends guys after them. Later Niko shows up and Ray has him go to the majestic. In the niko scene you are talking about, its a fat man and white guy. In tlad Jim is there with fatty. If you think about it. johnny leaves, then jim leaves with the money, fatty stays and white guy comes by. Then niko shows up blasting them to hell. Later on after Jim and Johnny escape Ray, Jim is probaly taken down by Rays guys.....make sence now. But i could be wrong i mean johnny looked diffrent in IV but im sure im right about this. Wait until the next DLC more may be explained.

No. Jim is clearly identified as having died in the subway during the mission 'No Way in the Subway', in the game.

 

I don't see how anyone can deny this, the news says that three bikes were seen in a chase. One being Niko, one being Jim, and the other being the bald biker. You even see Jim and the same bald biker in the same damn alley from the mission just before it happens.

The problem is that it doesn't look anything like Jim in the beginning of the mission. And people are really over-thinking this. R* isn't trying to make up some sort of convoluted plot twist. They probably didn't have the character's model and name when they put together that cut scene and mission. He's not wearing a wig and make-up and he isn't killed by a third party at another point in the game.

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Sicologikal

Another example of this ret-con:

 

Vic Vance in GTA VC (2002) - Balding, fat Latino male

 

Vic Vance in GTA VCS (2006) - Bald, thin African American with a normal accent

 

Two totally different models but they are the same person in the in-game world

 

Jim Fitzgerald get himself pasted all over the Algonquin Bridge when he hits the train so i'd say whatever he looked like doesn't really matter now! devil.gif

Edited by Sicologikal

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sam33

I think what happened was Niko chased and killed two high ranking bikers whilst an injured jim fitzgerald escaped from Rays drove around then collapsed on the subway due to his wounds.

 

The real point is Rock star screwed up but Im just thinking from a ingame realistic view here. Niko killed two high ranking bikers whose names we don't know.

 

The newspaper article says 3 bodies were found but if you leave the long haired one for long enough he crashes into a train exploding thus obliterating him meaning it's possible there was 4 bikes on the subway but only 3 were seen as by the time the witnesses saw it the long haired dude had been obliterated and jim had died elst where in the subway.

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ChrisAndy
I think what happened was Niko chased and killed two high ranking bikers whilst an injured jim fitzgerald escaped from Rays drove around then collapsed on the subway due to his wounds.

 

The real point is Rock star screwed up but Im just thinking from a ingame realistic view here. Niko killed two high ranking bikers whose names we don't know.

 

The newspaper article says 3 bodies were found but if you leave the long haired one for long enough he crashes into a train exploding thus obliterating him meaning it's possible there was 4 bikes on the subway but only 3 were seen as by the time the witnesses saw it the long haired dude had been obliterated and jim had died elst where in the subway.

Is there a link to this article on the Internet? I'm pretty sure it said 3 bikes were involved, I don't remember hearing about a body count.

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ChrisMathers3501

Dude, you guys are overthinking. This only came up because Rockstar overlooked Jim being the long-haired guy - thus we stretch our imagination so that Jim goes back to being the long-haired guy. Win-win and everything's canon.

 

And about Vic Vance - some people say it was Pete that died. I'm not one of them. We all know it was Vic because there was no Pete Vance in the original Vice City. As to how he looked and sounded, well, it's been two years, so he grew his hair out and put on some weight, and according to a deleted line from Ken Rosenberg, Vic and Lance owned a farm in Panama where they'd been sitting on their 20ks of coke, during which time Vic would have developed a Latin accent.

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junkpile

i most recently played the "NO WAY ON THE SUBWAY" mission and i'm pretty sure that rockstar already had a story for the lost and damned, but not all character models.

 

look how they added up bikes, weaponry and changed outfits and buildings.

 

 

 

 

btw, the article says:

THREE bikes were involved in the subway chase,

1. fat, bald biker

2. long haired mute

3. niko bellic

 

 

one corpse has been identified as jim fitzgerald.

 

if you hunt those two bikers, try NOT to kill anyone in the subway, the long haired mute will crash into a train and his bike will explode.

his body must be difficult to identify.

 

the fat bald guy will most likely "only" get shot by the player and easier to identify. so it might be jim the fitz.

 

 

whoever it might be out of those two guys, it's most likely a mistake in the continuity we might pay too much attention to.

 

 

 

look how the character "felix leiter" changes during the james bond movies, from black to white to old to young, etc etc...

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Astrixone

I dont know if someone explain or told it already.

What that is wierd that the two guys that niko took care of werent Jim XD

The fatty model named Jim Fitzgerald but he isnt the one who got crashed infornt an uncoming train.

 

sam33: They said 3 bikers, not three bodies, they said they didnt found the 3rd biker body, niko.

They didnt know if his body was gone or he just didnt die.

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junkpile
I dont know if someone explain or told it already.

What that is wierd that the two guys that niko took care of werent Jim XD

The fatty model named Jim Fitzgerald but he isnt the one who got crashed infornt an uncoming train.

 

sam33: They said 3 bikers, not three bodies, they said they didnt found the 3rd biker body, niko.

They didnt know if his body was gone or he just didnt die.

3 bikers, NOT three bodies.

one identified (JIM), ...they struggle to identify the other one (because of the crash maybe?), third one is niko (alive).

 

to me, mistake in the continuity or they just wanted to switch jim. in the two other threads about jim someone says

"to niko, they just look like any other biker guy..." plus "they decided to take another model for jim since there are already a lot of white bikers." both could be possible.

 

 

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junkpile

btw, some mention the fat, bald biker appears in TLAD. can anyone post a screenshot?

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tljjjr99
btw, some mention the fat, bald biker appears in TLAD. can anyone post a screenshot?

I don't have a screenshot, but I do recall (while playing as Johnny in TLAD) giving the diamond loot to Jim and a fat biker guy in some alleyway after the Museum mission.

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ChrisMathers3501

The fat bald biker is in The Lost and Damned with Jim, which makes Jim the long haired mute biker. I say out of the two, Jim looks more like the long-haired biker, and the fat biker is a different person. Jim is the long-haired biker, end of story.

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junkpile
The fat bald biker is in The Lost and Damned with Jim, which makes Jim the long haired mute biker. I say out of the two, Jim looks more like the long-haired biker, and the fat biker is a different person. Jim is the long-haired biker, end of story.

yep, just seen a screenshot on the gta4-lost and damned mission page. has to be the mute then.

 

 

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KGBeast

Exactly, Jim is the long haired biker who gets hit by a train and explodes in the scripted event. Thus how he dies.

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JOSEPH X

Jim`s last words in TLAD: "I`m gonna go get the brothers". He could just make his way back to the alley, and that`s when Niko walks into Drusilla`s to do NWOTS

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Astrixone

 

Exactly, Jim is the long haired biker who gets hit by a train and explodes in the scripted event.  Thus how he dies.

So why R* named the fat bald model on jim's name?

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junkpile
Exactly, Jim is the long haired biker who gets hit by a train and explodes in the scripted event.  Thus how he dies.

So why R* named the fat bald model on jim's name?

where can we see that?

 

i just noticed there is a voice actor listed for jim fitzgerald in the gta4 booklet. since the mute does his best to honor his nickname, fatty gotta be jim.

 

then the newspaper lines "they struggle to identify the other one..." CAN mean they can't identify the one who got hit by a train (bike exploded and train rolled over), so it's the mute.

 

the continuity error then:

they put the fatty AND the "new" jim in TLAD.

 

 

----------------

 

but i can't really say much about his appearance in TLAD since i haven't played it, yet.

 

is there a chance he is alive and went off with the money? a conspiracy? spit your knowledge, i don't mind if you spoil.

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RARusk

I am still holding true to my prediction to Jim's fate. Although, now that the new episode has been named and the new character revealed, NMC is now Luis. So, as I predict, Luis is the one who kills Jim and not Niko. We'll all find out when TBoGT is released.

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Astrixone
Exactly, Jim is the long haired biker who gets hit by a train and explodes in the scripted event.  Thus how he dies.

So why R* named the fat bald model on jim's name?

where can we see that?

 

i just noticed there is a voice actor listed for jim fitzgerald in the gta4 booklet. since the mute does his best to honor his nickname, fatty gotta be jim.

 

then the newspaper lines "they struggle to identify the other one..." CAN mean they can't identify the one who got hit by a train (bike exploded and train rolled over), so it's the mute.

 

the continuity error then:

they put the fatty AND the "new" jim in TLAD.

 

 

----------------

 

but i can't really say much about his appearance in TLAD since i haven't played it, yet.

 

is there a chance he is alive and went off with the money? a conspiracy? spit your knowledge, i don't mind if you spoil.

If you have GTA IV For pc you can look at the files.

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KGBeast

That is true, but if you have been listening at all, you would know that same exact biker appears in TLAD and is clearly not Jim, thus he 'never actually was' thanks to a convenient retcon, which leaves the other biker from the exact same alley and exact same timeframe as Jim.

 

I don't understand how these things are so hard to understand for people.

 

Niko didn't kill Jim and neither did Luis, Jim got flattened by a train and spread out all across the subway tracks beneath Algonquin.

Edited by KGBeast

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Astrixone
That is true, but if you have been listening at all, you would know that same exact biker appears in TLAD and is clearly not Jim, thus he 'never actually was' thanks to a convenient retcon, which leaves the other biker from the exact same alley and exact same timeframe as Jim.

 

I don't understand how these things are so hard to understand for people.

 

Niko didn't kill Jim and neither did Luis, Jim got flattened by a train and spread out all across the subway tracks beneath Algonquin.

Of course, i know this.

What was wierd about this thing was that the fat bald named as jim's name and he wasnt the one that crashed infront a train.

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ChrisAndy
That is true, but if you have been listening at all, you would know that same exact biker appears in TLAD and is clearly not Jim, thus he 'never actually was' thanks to a convenient retcon, which leaves the other biker from the exact same alley and exact same timeframe as Jim.

 

I don't understand how these things are so hard to understand for people.

 

Niko didn't kill Jim and neither did Luis, Jim got flattened by a train and spread out all across the subway tracks beneath Algonquin.

Is that why it says on the radio that 2 people were killed in the subway and that Niko killed 2 people, one of which was Fitzgerald? I just played No Way on the Subway and heard the Weazel report right now. Seems to me like Niko shot Jim...

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ChrisMathers3501
I am still holding true to my prediction to Jim's fate. Although, now that the new episode has been named and the new character revealed, NMC is now Luis. So, as I predict, Luis is the one who kills Jim and not Niko. We'll all find out when TBoGT is released.

Hey, I recognize your username! You're that guy who does all the GTA FAQs on gamefaqs! Hey, keep up the good work, man - I've actually found them to be pretty helpful! icon14.gif

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iPetrovic

My two cents on this - I think in the upcoming TBGOT, it should include a patch for GTA IV and TLAD to fix up all retcons (building exteriors, models of Luis and Johnny, and Jim, etc.).

 

This will settle all retcons, I believe.

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