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Dingdongs

Marriage Equality

Should Same Sex Marriage be legal or illegal?  

509 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Same Sex Marriage be legal or illegal?

    • It should be legal
      364
    • It should be illegal
      124


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Dingdongs

Should same sex marriage be legal or illegal? What's your take?

 

I think it should be legal, the government has no right to tell people over 18 how to live their lives, that simple.

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4thosebout2rock

Yes i agree.

 

I have no problem with same sex marriage at all.

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K^2

The only reasonable argument against same sex marriage is that marriage is a religious union. In that case, I don't have a problem with marriage being defined as a union between man and a woman. What I have a problem with is state recognizing it.

 

Basically, I don't think there is a need for same sex marriage. What we need is a legal system that allows civil unions between any two persons, and recognizes only these civil unions. If a couple in a civil union also wants to be married by the church, it is between them and the church. It should not make a difference to the state whether a couple is actually married or not.

 

The bad thing about current stance on same sex marriages is that state does recognize the marriage and grants certain rights to married couples. These rights are not available to the same sex couples, and that is not the way things should run.

 

On the topic of raising children, yes, a child needs a mother and a father. But these roles aren't defined by the kind of genitalia that each has. There needs to be a dominant-rational figure to take on the role of the father and a more passive-sensitive figure to take the role of the mother. Since most same sex couples have this role differentiation already, it makes no difference if a father ends up a woman, or mother ends up a man. Hell, such role inversion happens even with heterosexual couples, and their children tend to turn out alright. Sure, there might be a bit more confusion about sexuality, but everyone questions own sexuality at one point or another.

 

So all that is needed is a good solid social unit that can exist on equal footing regardless of the gender of the couple. Civil unions in a lot of places already give a basis for it. All we have left to do is do away with marriage as something legally recognized and leave it to be as a religious ceremony to be performed as church sees fit, and having no bearing on the legal status of the couple.

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Omnia sunt Communia

K^2 pretty much summed up my thoughts on the subject. Marriage is defined by the Church, and can be whatever they want it to be, but Civil Unions should be the recognized legal partnership between two people - of any sex. There are more and more people who are refusing to get married these days so such unions need to exist to take these people into account. They should give people the same rights as an married couple, without the need for a ceremony or adopting one of the partner's surname (something I don't believe in).

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Pr0xy_fl00d3r

People should have the right to marry who they want, I fail to see why marrying someone of the same sex is hurting anyone, is the church that insecure? bloody ridiculous.

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El Zilcho

The Church has always believed that God disagrees with gays, and as ridiculous as that may be, it is the Bible, and some people live there lives like that. Why force gay rights on the people who's spiritual beliefs conflict with it? Same Sex civil unions should definitely be allowed, anyone who is in love, gay or not should have that right. But a religious marriage would be based on a sham if it was against the religion that it was being performed through. Nothing personal, but it wouldn't work. If that's what the Church wants, and what it has been built on, who are we to say different?

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BikerAndy
Should same sex marriage be legal or illegal? What's your take?

 

I think it should be legal, the government has no right to tell people over 18 how to live their lives, that simple.

Absolutely no argument from me. It's no-one elses business how you live your life and who you choose to live it with.

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Dingdongs
The only reasonable argument against same sex marriage is that marriage is a religious union. In that case, I don't have a problem with marriage being defined as a union between man and a woman. What I have a problem with is state recognizing it.

 

Basically, I don't think there is a need for same sex marriage. What we need is a legal system that allows civil unions between any two persons, and recognizes only these civil unions. If a couple in a civil union also wants to be married by the church, it is between them and the church. It should not make a difference to the state whether a couple is actually married or not.

 

The bad thing about current stance on same sex marriages is that state does recognize the marriage and grants certain rights to married couples. These rights are not available to the same sex couples, and that is not the way things should run.

 

On the topic of raising children, yes, a child needs a mother and a father. But these roles aren't defined by the kind of genitalia that each has. There needs to be a dominant-rational figure to take on the role of the father and a more passive-sensitive figure to take the role of the mother. Since most same sex couples have this role differentiation already, it makes no difference if a father ends up a woman, or mother ends up a man. Hell, such role inversion happens even with heterosexual couples, and their children tend to turn out alright. Sure, there might be a bit more confusion about sexuality, but everyone questions own sexuality at one point or another.

 

So all that is needed is a good solid social unit that can exist on equal footing regardless of the gender of the couple. Civil unions in a lot of places already give a basis for it. All we have left to do is do away with marriage as something legally recognized and leave it to be as a religious ceremony to be performed as church sees fit, and having no bearing on the legal status of the couple.

I see you're point. However, leave that up to the church to decide whether or not the couple can be married there, not the government.

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K^2

Of course. Once the marriage has no legal meaning, state has no business instructing the church on how and when it should be performed.

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Omnia sunt Communia

I think this topic comes down to the age-old statement: Separate the Church and State.

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Struff Bunstridge

It's the lack of legal recognition that bothers me, not so much the stigma attached. People should be allowed to marry regardless of religious or sexual orientation, but the fact that even if many of these permutations were allowed, they still wouldn't be legally recognised, is beyond me.

 

My girlfriend and I have been tentatively discussing marriage at some point, and as neither of us are religious, we'd feel hypocritical marrying in a place of worship. We'd therefore like to go to Ireland, her country of birth, and have a humanist ceremony, i.e., all the bells and whistles, but with no religious emphasis whatsoever. Problem is, Ireland being a deeply religious country, any humanist marriage ceremony there isn't legally recognised anywhere - why the hell is one country's religious beliefs determining the global validity of my marriage? It doesn't work the opposite way round for same-sex marriage, as far as I know, and it bloody well ought to. If homosexuals wish to marry, nothing should stand in their way, as far as I'm concerned.

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Dingdongs

If you actually READ the Bible, you would notice that it defines marriage for most of its length not as one man and one woman but as one man and multiple women, or one man and one woman plus any bondwomen hanging around to serve as concubines. (Think Jacob, Leah, Rachel, Bilhah, and Zilpah for just one of many famous examples) So if you really want laws based on the Bible, you should support polygamy and sex slavey- that's to those who are for making it illegal.

 

In response to the government making it illegal so only straights can get married at a church:

 

Religious freedom laws PREVENT the government from forcing churches to marry homosexual couples against their will. Making gay marriage legal will NOT change this in ANY way. However, anti-gay marriage laws currently PREVENT churches that DO want to marry homosexual couples from doing so. Why is it so awful to restrict the freedom of anti-gay marriage churches, but perfectly okay to restrict the freedom of pro-gay marriage churches?

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McLovin2404

The Government ain't no church!

 

I say legalize same sex marriage...and also legalize the 'erb.

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Sergi

I personally don't care. It isn't like 2 gay guys getting married is effecting me in some sort of negative way. What people do behind closed doors in their business. Hell what people do in the open is their business I'm not involved so why does it matter to me. Also Irviding made a valid point. That's why I think religion and the Bible specifically is very flawed. For one it was written thousands of years ago and what was happening then doesn't reflect today. Second when it comes to the Bible, people like to change stuff to make it fit their needs and like to dis regard alot of things. If Gay people want to get married the government nor the Bible or any other religion should have word in what they can and can't do. Hell if a murderer can kill dozen of people and "find" Jesus in jail and go to heaven then gay people should be able to get married and go to heaven.

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K^2
...and also legalize the 'erb.

At least decriminalize it. It's barking mad to put someone behind bars for possession. I don't care if you have a field of the stuff, it's still mad.

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copperwire93

Same sex marriage? Ohh... dear all the prophecy in Quran are indeed real. Don't quote me for this, I just want to write this and there is no reason for me to debate as I will lose anyway. If the government going to legalize this, so be it, but better not in my country and other Islamic country or I will sure to resist.

Edited by copperwire93

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Wonderbro

Yes, it should be legal, but I don't kinda like it. Tho I support that people may marry with they want.

 

My English is sh*tty. sad.gif

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General Goose

Same sex marriage should be legal. I don't personally care, but everyone who is mature enough to think for themselves can life how they want if they don't harm or disrupt others.

 

I now it's often debated religiously, but if it will get all participants sent to hell (very unlikely methinks), the religious wouldn't have been involved, so should get off Scot-free.

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bobgtafan

First off someone show me a New Testement Verse that says thou shall not marry another man.

Second until then Gay's should be given full equal rights as straights. And even if the bible did say that that still doesn't mean that I have the right to tell Adam and Steve they can't be happy together. And the conservaties saying gays won't be as good of parents as straights is a damn lie. Most gays would be just as good or better parents than straight folks. IF your happier with Steve I can't force a desicion on you. Because in the end YOU are going to have to look at that person, f*ck that person, and love that person for the rest of your life not me.

 

And if marrige is just a reliogus instition why are atheist allowed to be married?

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garfield2004b
First off someone show me a New Testement Verse that says thou shall not marry another man.

Second until then Gay's should be given full equal rights as straights. And even if the bible did say that that still doesn't mean that I have the right to tell Adam and Steve they can't be happy together. And the conservaties saying gays won't be as good of parents as straights is a damn lie. Most gays would be just as good or better parents than straight folks. IF your happier with Steve I can't force a desicion on you. Because in the end YOU are going to have to look at that person, f*ck that person, and love that person for the rest of your life not me.

 

And if marrige is just a reliogus instition why are atheist allowed to be married?

You just summed up everything I was going to say. I have no problem with gay marriage, even though I am (or, was) religious.

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K^2
And if marrige is just a reliogus instition why are atheist allowed to be married?

I don't think Church recognizes Atheism. To them, an Atheist is just a confused person. So an Atheist who gets married in a church, is a man who had a moment of clarity. They really shouldn't have a problem with that.

 

And the State really just doesn't know what the f*ck they are doing.

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Dingdongs
And the State really just doesn't know what the f*ck they are doing.

How so?

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Struff Bunstridge
First off someone show me a New Testement Verse that says thou shall not marry another man.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that, dude. The Bible can't expressly forbid everything, that'd be ridiculous.

 

Besides, I'm sure I remember a story about two men being found 'lying close together', and suffering some sort of recriminations for it.

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K^2

 

Besides, I'm sure I remember a story about two men being found 'lying close together', and suffering some sort of recriminations for it.

You are thinking of the Old Testament. There is a verse there that states that if two men are lying together as a man lies with woman, they shall be stoned. That's why the person you were quoting asked about New Testament specifically. A lot of things for which Old Testament required punishment of death, New Testament asks to love the sinner instead.

 

 

And the State really just doesn't know what the f*ck they are doing.

How so?

Well, the "State" has such a potpourri of religious beliefs mixed in that to say specifically what they think of Atheists getting married is next to impossible. A bunch of factions are going to pull in completely different directions on the topic. Unfortunately, separation of church and state never meant that people in power will be unaffected by their religious beliefs. The idea was that a mix of religious beliefs will result in policy that is acceptable to the mix of beliefs present in population. Good idea on paper, but in reality it only worked well while US was primarily a mix of different kinds of Christian. Now, the system is struggling a bit.

 

This can be resolved, partially at least, in a somewhat authoritarian state. Communists have dealt with religion quite nicely. It was not forbidden, but you could not be a member of the party if you belonged to some religion. Church did end up somewhat repressed, but I think to the level on which it should exist. In the Western World, Religion is a business, and Churches are in it to make money. In Soviet Russia, the Church was pretty much what the Bible said it should be, and it worked as a moral compass and support to the worker class. Government and Military, in the mean time, could make decisions that were not governed by the positions of the Church.

 

Granted, this is reduction of freedom, but I do not think that politicians should be as free as the rest of us. They are supposed to be in service of the public. Forcing them to abandon their religion would be killing two birds with one stone. We'd get a far more secular Government, and at the same time, we'd have more people in that Government who want to serve the people rather than themselves.

 

In the particular case of US, it is already becoming an Imperial State, and that would be a good step. Yes, it'd be a major change to the constitution, but that has already been pissed on so much in the past few years, that it might as well be done. If you aren't going to follow the Constitution, maybe writing one that you are willing to follow would be a good idea. Without such a change, I'm worried that US might evolve into a Holly Empire instead, and that truly would be good for nobody. We've already seen what that can do.

Edited by K^2

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bobgtafan
First off someone show me a New Testement Verse that says thou shall not marry another man.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that, dude. The Bible can't expressly forbid everything, that'd be ridiculous.

 

Besides, I'm sure I remember a story about two men being found 'lying close together', and suffering some sort of recriminations for it.

Of cousre the bible doesn't say it like that but so me something from the New Testement in that Context and then I'll think its a sin. Until then its just a life sytle choice.And old testement doesn't count because back then God let people have 200 wives if they wanted. so....

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Dingdongs
First off someone show me a New Testement Verse that says thou shall not marry another man.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that, dude. The Bible can't expressly forbid everything, that'd be ridiculous.

 

Besides, I'm sure I remember a story about two men being found 'lying close together', and suffering some sort of recriminations for it.

http://www.evilbible.com/

 

This site just about covers all that crazy crap smile.gif

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lloydo

I don't think it should be legal, religiously, politically and scientifically i think it's just wrong. I think here is a link between religion and science, here society has broken down so far that the structure of human survival is halted. Nontheless, the human mind is complex, it is natural that a matter such as same-sex feelings become more than friendly and much more serious.

 

I think each human has the right to express their feelings, but in this modern world, some rights have been degraded shamefully. In health terms, same-sex intercourse is just not meant to happen, it leads to infections and diseases. Although male-female intercourse can cause the same problems in health terms, it too has been degraded.

 

Marriage should be kept for men and women, it's much more than tradition, it's the way of life.

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McLovin2404

If any 2 people love each other, then let it be...

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russian93

 

First off someone show me a New Testement Verse that says thou shall not marry another man.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that, dude. The Bible can't expressly forbid everything, that'd be ridiculous.

 

Besides, I'm sure I remember a story about two men being found 'lying close together', and suffering some sort of recriminations for it.

Of cousre the bible doesn't say it like that but so me something from the New Testement in that Context and then I'll think its a sin. Until then its just a life sytle choice.And old testement doesn't count because back then God let people have 200 wives if they wanted. so....

I have no bible at the hand now but I'm sure there's a passage where Paulus writes in his letters about gay greeks. He calls it unnatural and the people shall be cast out of the community (which is maybe the only punishment the New Testament knows). And the 200 wives thing is also not exactly correct. Afaik the israelic tradition allowed sex with the maid if the own wife couldn't have childs and then the child born by the maid was given to the father and his wife as their child.

 

But I agree that there should be civil unions. They should be basicly like marriage today, but only without the hole religious and traditional stuff and whoever wants to marry in a church can still do it. Religion should not affect political things in any way.

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Dingdongs

 

 

I don't think it should be legal, religiously, politically and scientifically i think it's just wrong. I think here is a link between religion and science, here society has broken down so far that the structure of human survival is halted.

 

 

 

How is it scientifically wrong? How does homosexuality break down the structure of human survival?

 

 

 

Nontheless, the human mind is complex, it is natural that a matter such as same-sex feelings become more than friendly and much more serious.

 

 

 

So what? Who are you to dictate what two people do privately?

 

 

 

I think each human has the right to express their feelings,

 

 

Then why are you against gay marriage?

 

 

 

In health terms, same-sex intercourse is just not meant to happen, it leads to infections and diseases.

 

Who says it's not meant to happen?

 

So does male-female unprotected sex. Please backup what you're saying instead of making ludicrous claims.

 

 

 

Although male-female intercourse can cause the same problems in health terms, it too has been degraded.

 

 

How?

 

 

Marrriage should be kept for men and women, it's much more than tradition, it's the way of life.

 

 

How is it a way of life? Let me restate what I said before: Who are you to dictate how people live their life? And who are you to decide the so called " way of life " ?

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