Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Right, retard, little wussy prick, I'm sure you wouldn't have the balls to say to to my face. That we will never know Be all competitive in a game, good on you, it probably makes up for the utter failure you are as a human being. lol, just like your cheats make up for your total failure at being a PC gamer i guess. Im already having a pretty nice day, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Right, retard, little wussy prick, I'm sure you wouldn't have the balls to say to to my face. That we will never know Be all competitive in a game, good on you, it probably makes up for the utter failure you are as a human being. lol, just like your cheats make up for your total failure at being a PC gamer i guess. Im already having a pretty nice day, thanks Yep, but hey I don't give a sh*t for being an utter failure as a PC gamer... And I'm betting I'm having loads more fun then you as an added bonus. It takes almost zero skill to be a good pc gamer, it takes much more skills to be a good human being. Have fun on that matey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Thing is, satisfaction in life seems directly proportional to intelligence, so it comes as no surprise that you are very satisfied with you life As for me, im not going to make silly assertions of a metaphysical and emotional nature. But you did make me smile that even in defeat you can still demonstrate insecurities through your unfounded assumptions that appear, and only possibly could be, nothing more than Freudian projection... Better luck next time... Yep, but hey I don't give a sh*t for being an utter failure as a PC gamer... QFT, it comes across in the way you condone cheating. Ta ta Edited April 21, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Thing is, satisfaction in life seems directly proportional to intelligence, so it comes as no surprise that you are very satisfied with you life As for me, im not going to make silly assertions of a metaphysical and emotional nature. But you did make me smile that even in defeat you can still demonstrate insecurities through your unfounded assumptions that appear, and only possibly could be, nothing more than Freudian projection... Better luck next time... Yep, but hey I don't give a sh*t for being an utter failure as a PC gamer... QFT, it comes across in the way you condone cheating. Ta ta LOL he's calling me stupid again. How do you recon I'm defeated ? Instead of trying to personally attack me, you still failed to come up with a non disputable reason why spawning a car in free/party mode should be considered cheating. Spare me the Freud, it's all diversion from the topic. I don not condone cheating, what is discussed in this thread isn't cheating, so no reason to condone it either Einstein... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 No, i realise now you just dont understand why spawing cars in SP or MP in any mode is cheating, because you cant or refuse to see it in fundamental terms due to your pre-dispoisition as a cheater. Your only refuge would be arguing that 'some cheating is ok', but in fairness thats a very gray line and is only defensible if your playing with people who all support that you spawning cars is OK, because as soon as one person joins and decides to uphold the rules of the game by asking you not to cheat at all, youve automatically been pushed over the line of 'unsupported cheating', which try as you might, is absolutely and undeniably cheating and unacceptable. If you want to cheat, just make closed games with your cheating mates and see how long that entertains you, or how long the p2p holds up inbetween crashes, then there really would be no discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 No, i realise now you just dont understand why spawing cars in SP or MP in any mode is cheating, because you cant or refuse to see it in fundamental terms due to your pre-dispoisition as a cheater. Your only refuge would be arguing that 'some cheating is ok', but in fairness thats a very gray line and is only defensible if your playing with people who all support that you spawning cars is OK, because as soon as one person joins and decides to uphold the rules of the game by asking you not to cheat at all, youve automatically been pushed over the line of 'unsupported cheating', which try as you might, is absolutely and undeniably cheating and unacceptable. If you want to cheat, just make closed games with your cheating mates and see how long that entertains you, or how long the p2p holds up inbetween crashes, then there really would be no discussion. Okay let me try to explain it the way I see it. If you cheat, you do that to gain an advantage, for instance if you cheat in a poker game, you do so because you are in a competition with other card players, you gain that advantage in money in most poker games. Now let's project this onto this particular game. If you spawn a fast car in a race, you do so to be able to win the race, again obviously you're cheating. Now in free mode that competitive element is lacking completely, hence there cannot be any cheating. That's my point, nothing more nothing less. Free mode is all about having fun. And sure if someone is spawning a lot of cars to try and crash the game, then there is no discussion, that is clearly wrong. But again it's not cheating in the strict sense, it's harrasment. These people should be dealt with, but of course as earlier stated, R and MS fail in doing so. Regarding the rules of the game, well you decided to live by them (or better your interpretation of those rules), but please understand, that this is a game to allows for freedom, especially outside the storyline missions, and I just think that people should be allowed to exercise that freedom, as long as they don't harrass others. You call it cheating, I call it having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Even in free mode, spawning fast car after fast car, preventing clean players from killing you or doing what THEY want, (assuming that they are not deploying any cheat) is interfering with their game, and as such is cheating them. You cant tell them that they shouldnt be killing or attacking in free-mode because just doing that would be breaking no game rule in any way. Tho spawning a car to get away is a cheat, and im glad youve finally, loosely accepted that and i also hope that your cheating doesnt get boring for you as soon as games are packed with cheaters again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Even in free mode, spawning fast car after fast car, preventing clean players from killing you or doing what THEY want, (assuming that they are not deploying any cheat) is interfering with their game, and as such is cheating them. You cant tell them that they shouldnt be killing or attacking in free-mode because just doing that would be breaking no game rule in any way. Tho spawning a car to get away is a cheat, and im glad youve finally, loosely accepted that and i also hope that your cheating doesnt get boring for you as soon as games are packed with cheaters again. Why should I do what THEY want ? I just mind my own business, in what way am I interfering with their game ? If they want bait they can go to deathmatch. Did you ever actually participate in a freemode game ? Judging from your remark about it being relatively free from " cheaters" (note I don't use that term myself) , I would guess not much. In there people spawn ramps, spawn cars for friends and do other stuff together. Very socially and much more fun than being competitive all the time. Again you call it cheating, but in fact it's merely having fun, something that is not only perfectly okay, it should be fully allowed as well. If you want competition and achievements and scores, there are plenty of other MP modes where you can participate in. And in these modes, indeed spawning a car is cheating, as something is to be gained there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Why should I do what THEY want ?I just mind my own business, in what way am I interfering with their game ? If they want bait they can go to deathmatch. Sure, do what you want. As long as you accept that you have to cheat to do it. Again you call it cheating, but in fact it's merely having fun, something that is not only perfectly okay, it should be fully allowed as well. I never said cheating wasnt fun. If you want competition and achievements and scores, there are plenty of other MP modes where you can participate in. Couldnt care less about achievements and scores, i just know for a fact as soon as your cheating mates are bored of free mode, they come and cheat in other game modes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachinator Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 Urrgh and i jump in the fray again. Curse my need to talk. I only have 1 thought. "i just know for a fact as soon as your cheating mates are bored of free mode, they come and cheat in other game modes too." That sir is generalising to the highest degree. You cannot claim that since a few bad people spawn tugs in race mode, that means that anyone who has a mod installed will then do the same thing, your completely ignorant to think that all modders are cut from the same stone. THEY are cheaters, I am not a cheater because I never get bored of free mode and i would never use mods in a DM because obviously that is cheating. Get off your high horse and accept that with Modding there is a clearly established grey area, it is not black and white where you have "Evil Nazi Zombie Cheaters from Space" and "Angelic non-modding Holy Men" There is a clearly established point that a person using a car spawner for the good of the server is a great person to have, and i enjoyed having them in games before i got mine. It is quite simple to me and to others that a mod is only defined in the way that it is used not by its pure existence, a car spawner that rams out tugs in Race is evil, a car spawner that hands out Sabre GT's in Free mode is good. Maybe you should learn the difference and stop thinking its cheating and start calling it modding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yes, it is a generalisation. But its not exactly me thats on a high horse tho i know it can seem like that when your being told flat out that you are a cheater... Infact, it is you guys that are asking for the impossible, you want R* to somehow discriminate between you and the 'other people' somehow, even though they have no interest in your car spawner and other mods. You are the ones asking for special treatment to be not considered a cheater when in simple terms, regardless of how much or little you disrupt others game, you are a cheater... I would only consider what you do as a mod if you released another front end and allowed people to download the software and play in the same context and with the same tools as everyone else separate to the valilla game... While you are joining games where there is a single person who can 'somehow' enjoy this awesome game without people spawning cars, you are a cheater. I know this whole thing is too complex for you to grasp, which is a shame but what can people do apart from call it like it is laters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I know this whole thing is too complex for you to grasp, which is a shame but what can people do apart from call it like it is laters I have the impression this whole matter is beyond your comprehension. You call it like it is in your narrow minded view. We have tried to explain to you, that cheating is something you do to gain an advantage, something that is not to be gained in free and party mode. But it's wasted effort, some people are so narrow minded and self centered that reason and compromise is utterly impossible. At least you could have the decency to not call anyone you disagree with stupid, that is a very nasty habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I have the impression this whole matter is beyond your comprehension. You call it like it is in your narrow minded view. We have tried to explain to you, that cheating is something you do to gain an advantage, something that is not to be gained in free and party mode. You're funny. You sound like a drug-addict in denial, you seriously do. I'm a reverse engineer, have made my own multiplayer modifications, normal, offline modifications and have been a developer of SA-MP and a MTA developer (albeit for a very short period of time). Any sane person would directly say that using modifications to get an advantage online is cheating (because, in fact, you are), on which I emphasised in this post, and again in this post. You're telling others to look up the definition of a cheat, they do, after which you tell them they're pulling things out of their context, yet Rockstar is saying exactly the same thing by disabling modifications in multiplayer. Advantages are certainly being gain spawning vehicles for yourself. The fact that it's named "spawning vehicles" says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 May I just point out that whilst a heated discussion is one thing, name calling is another, which one particular contributor to this topic should watch out for. *subscribes* The fact that it's named "spawning vehicles" says it all. Does it? I thought it says that it spawns a vehicle, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I have the impression this whole matter is beyond your comprehension. You call it like it is in your narrow minded view. We have tried to explain to you, that cheating is something you do to gain an advantage, something that is not to be gained in free and party mode. You're funny. You sound like a drug-addict in denial, you seriously do. I'm a reverse engineer, have made my own multiplayer modifications, normal, offline modifications and have been a developer of SA-MP and a MTA developer (albeit for a very short period of time). Any sane person would directly say that using modifications to get an advantage online is cheating (because, in fact, you are), on which I emphasised in this post, and again in this post. You're telling others to look up the definition of a cheat, they do, after which you tell them they're pulling things out of their context, yet Rockstar is saying exactly the same thing by disabling modifications in multiplayer. Advantages are certainly being gain spawning vehicles for yourself. The fact that it's named "spawning vehicles" says it all. I'm not a drug addict nor am I in denial. The point is that this is a game, and in competitive modes , indeed spawning a vehicle is cheating, as there is a clear advantage, (a faster car to win the race for instance). Now please explain to me what advantage I would have in a mode that is non competitive ? And again Rockstar has not done anything to spawners and trainers that utilise native game commands to spawn vehicles, nothing at all. The reason why these mods were not working, was because the memory addresses of GTAIV.exe have changed, not because Rockstar specifically blocked these. But regardless of that fact, if it is against the rules to spawn cars, it doesn't necessarily mean it can be considered cheating, just as no one would call driving beyond the speed limit cheating either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDawg Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 So call me a cheater, lol, I am a cheater!!! I know that when I use these cheats that I am not cheating anyone else out of their fun by spawning a car for myself. Am I gaining an advantage; yes, is it an advantage that nobody else can possess; hell no. http://google.com If someone doesn't like the fact that I spawned a car then they have a number of options avaliable to them including, asking me for a car (which I'd do), calling me names (I always laugh), reporting me (go for it) and vote kicking me (lmao), leaving the server (good call), or they could use their head and find a spawner or simply ask me and I'd tell them or email it to them (most people that don't already have a cheat do this). Now, if I were to refuse to tell people where I got the spawner then I'd really be cheating maliciously in free mode; because then I'm keeping the advantage to myself only and that isn't cool. Is it cheating to spawn a car in free mode, yes. Is it malicious to spawn car in free mode, no, unless you are unwilling to help other players get a car or find a spawner. I don't feel bad about cheating this way because I'm not hurting anyone except maybe a few irrational and/or narrow minded people and I don't care about them. I don't care if I'm breaking the EULA, they can shove that legal crap up their ass. All my life I've been into sports and gaming of all sorts and I despise cheating in adversarial and/or competitive matches. But I am open minded enough to see that free mode and party modes in GTA IV should allow mods, cheats, spawning and all sorts of crazy behavior because that is what makes those modes so fun; the chaos; the unexpected and always changing free mode. But, for all other modes, besides free mode and party mode, any use of any trainer, mod or cheat is malicious and unacceptable imo. Who's to stop the malicious cheats in these defined adversarial modes? The people who made the bloody game, R*/MS. They appear to not have an understanding of what a superior MP game is made of. It's their job to expect and forsee all of this and create a game in a way that provides dedicated servers full of options and including anti-cheat software and pure/unpure modes, that is the standard for the leading MP games today. Well, they didn't build the game like that, so now the cheats are being used maliciously and some people are upset, but it's not the fault of the people who made these cheats/trainers/mods, it's the fault of the people who made the game for not having the professional wisdom to forsee a MP fiasco and take the "right" steps to provide the game with supported modding and anti-cheat protection. I'd like to make it clear that I detest cheats in the non-free modes, I think it's wrong and it hurts the game, but in free mode, I feel free. The facts are clear; the modders are going to make mods that work online, no matter what; so it's up to R* & MS to allow this and at the same time protect the defined (not free) adversarial modes from the people who would use cheats in there. So you bellyachers should stop wasting your time arguing with people like me who are going to continue to use cheats in free mode whether you like it or not and you should start writing letters and emails to the staff of R* & MS, because you'll have more luck there than here. You won't change my mind, I'm going to continue cheating in free mode. BTW, you can say that we expect the devs to appease us and change the game for us, the people who use and want mods/trainers/cheats, but that's not what we or at least I expect. I expect them to protect the game the right way so that modders aren't considered cheaters so to speak. I don't want access to the non-free adversarial modes using cheats. I want R* to make it a lot harder, if not impossible, to use these cheats in the non-free modes, so I hope they do that. But if they try to stop all cheats and mods from all online then they will fail, because there's a high demand for cheats in free mode, so there will always be a work around one way or the other. But if the devs embraced modding then modders could have there own places to go and they probably wouldn't seep into the clean games as often as they do now, although it's very hard to keep any game 100% clean. PB does a decent job of keeping many dedicated servers cleaner, for many different games. But if they don't add a true anti-cheat system to the game then expect cheating to become the norm as it is becoming as we speak. There are more people spawning sh*t and zipping around with nitrous than not. This will be my last post here in this topic, I promise. I've spoken my peace and I won't feel inclined to repeat myself, so I'm off to spawn a car in freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 (edited) But regardless of that fact, if it is against the rules to spawn cars, it doesn't necessarily mean it can be considered cheating, just as no one would call driving beyond the speed limit cheating either. Speed limit is a regulation, not a rule. If it was a rule, no cars would be able to go over the speed limit unless you tampered, or 'cheated' the system that limited the speed.. Is it becoming clearer now? If someone doesn't like the fact that I spawned a car then they have a number of options avaliable to them including, asking me for a car (which I'd do), calling me names (I always laugh), reporting me (go for it) and vote kicking me (lmao), leaving the server (good call), or they could use their head and find a spawner or simply ask me and I'd tell them or email it to them (most people that don't already have a cheat do this). Lol, i thought you were never called a cheat by the like minded souls of free mode, yet you seem to have been up against a wide range of of criticism from both people in game, and also out of it too. The facts are clear; the modders are going to make mods that work online, no matter what; so it's up to R* & MS to allow this and at the same time protect the defined (not free) adversarial modes from the people who would use cheats in there. No, that would be like saying its up to EA to allow people to use multihack on multihack friendly servers because theres always going to be multihack LOL. May I just point out that whilst a heated discussion is one thing, name calling is another, which one particular contributor to this topic should watch out for. Seems a bit prejudiced, i dont think there is any SINGLE person in this thread that is guilty of that alone... So, do you support cheating or not, lets explore your position... Edited April 22, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Seems a bit prejudiced, i dont think there is any SINGLE person in this thread that is guilty of that alone... So, do you support cheating or not, lets explore your position... No single person is exclusively guilty, but no other single person has posted this extent of insults. you little wussy, sugar OD'ing, ADD afflicted, sorry excuse for PC gamers! You guys are pretty dumb for PC users your just one of a growing bunch of lamers you're really f*cking dense What sort of an insecure asshole are you? ive got no shame in laughing at retarded people who cant understand such a simple concept... Youre pretty f*cking stupid right here mate ...some r-tards who make tools that are obviously going to be abused... ...you cheating little wussy prick ...typing replies to retards Leave the playground antics out of this thread from now on (goes to everyone). Now back on topic please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Playground antics? You guys are venting your anti mod crap so hard *that was after two posts of mine, and after he created a thread asking for opinions, i guess he meant concurring opinions ROFL, thats very antagonistic, though im sure you probably dont know what that means... Urrrgh someone lock this topic i should've known it would attract the idiot "Modding is cheating" crowd when what i wanted was a neutral viewpoint. lol, he asks for opinions then gives them to us... People who use the term cheating, should get a dictionairy, and get educated. Obviously hes never actually checked the entry for 'cheating' as weve already covered. Who is actually getting hurt out of this except pretentious fools who believe that i'm cheating in something non-competitive ...all the people who called him a cheat in free mode, obviously You moron. I stated in the 1st paragraph all i would be using it in is FREE MODE And FYI no I don't find any other game mode boring it's only that when I get a good car destroyed by little griefer children like yourself I prefer to get it back straight away rather than hunt for a new one. Am I right in thinking that psymn321 doesn't like the car spawner? And, uh... you guys consider a car spawner in free mode bad? Err, I'm still not really sure about it, could you penis wrinkles go over it again? =Be all competitive in a game, good on you, it probably makes up for the utter failure you are as a human being. But of a bold statement, least all my claims were related to the discussion and his understanding, or lack of it. I have the impression this whole matter is beyond your comprehension.You call it like it is in your narrow minded view. So given the actual evidence i would assume that you like cheating and disagree with me and decided to bring the 'hammer down' on the general tone of this conversation and claim its all one sided, coming from me LOL... Maybe im just hurting your feelings because its pretty obvious that you are one of these mod using car spawning cheats Though i see you didnt commit to the conversation yet so whatever, though just like the most part of this thread, im pretty sure im correct... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelman Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 just like the most part of this thread, im pretty sure im correct... Careful you don't trip over all these assumptions, sunshine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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