Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) You cant even refute my definition of cheating, so saying that you still disagree with it makes you look the idiot, lol. And spawning cars online makes you look like a cheater, which afterall, is why people called you a cheater online, and why you made this thread in the first place... So i prefer my parting words People who still maintain that spawning a car in freemode is cheating, should buy a clue and a dictionairy. cheat –verb (used with object) 1. to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance. 2. to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero. 3. to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide. –verb (used without object) 4. to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets. 5. to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at GTA 4. 6. to take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers. 7. Informal. to be sexually unfaithful (often fol. by on): Her husband knew she had been cheating all along. He cheated on his wife. –noun 8. a person who acts dishonestly, deceives, or defrauds: He is a cheat and a liar. 9. a fraud; swindle; deception: The game was a cheat. 10. Law. the fraudulent obtaining of another's property by a pretense or trick. 11. an impostor: The man who passed as an earl was a cheat. I think that wraps it up... Edited April 21, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachinator Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 You may prefer yours but you made them for me. Which i rejected. Don't put words in peoples mouths, that's simple knowledge. And in a way even if i was "cheating"... who will persecute me for a harmless "crime" (as you put it) like spawning a car? People will persecute me when i run around a Deathmatch with god mode and a rocket SMG fair enough, but free mode car spawning... bah. No one would convict me and nobody would care. People in game really are alot more open minded than on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 " to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at GTA 4." Okay, let's have them then, the rules and regulations.... of course the original text is: to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards that takes it into a whole different perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards that takes it into a whole different perspective. Unfortunately, R* disagrees... Though the only argument against that is 'who gives a f*ck about terms of service', which would be like saying 'who gives a f*ck about the rules of poker'... bah. No one would convict me and nobody would care. People in game really are alot more open minded than on the forums. I suspect it was people calling you a cheat in game that made you come here in the first place Edited April 21, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachinator Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Urrgh. Last time around here I'm not getting dragged into this. Im sure most RATIONAL people would agree that spawning a car doesn't harm so no one will report me so why should i care if you think i shouldn't. And it's not like mods are a bad thing, without mods CS:S would've died years ago, but people modding new game mode's keeps it fresh, if R* had released a Developer Kit, Dedicated servers and a good security system instead of wasting that time on Securom then this game would have greater lasting appeal and a lot more fresh idea's and game varieties, but since that isn't an option i'll stick to my Car Spawner and be happy i have it. No more comments now lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Cheaters never win, or get the last word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Unfortunately, R* disagrees... Though the only argument against that is 'who gives a f*ck about terms of service', which would be like saying 'who gives a f*ck about the rules of poker'... In writing please, they haven't done anything to prevent it...And I mean not a single thing. Your anology is flawed, as poker is a competition, where money is at stacke, hence cheating is relevant in that game. GTAIV freemode has zero competitive elements. Buy a clue, as I stated before.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 So the rules of poker dont apply as long as no money is involved and its just a game to pass time with a few mates? lol, And the terms of service of both the game and Windows Live are pretty cleat about cheating. Also saying R* have done nothing is retarded, they already introduced a check on startup into multi and asked the people who made your mods to restrict the multi access, tho that has been defeated, it doesnt mean that R* condone it or that its now accepted just because its possible... Total f*cking joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 So the rules of poker dont apply as long as no money is involved and its just a game to pass time with a few mates? lol, And the terms of service of both the game and Windows Live are pretty cleat about cheating Well they are not so clear, and of course we are even debating here whether or not something is cheating, so I don't think terms and conditions are clear at all. Still the analogy is flawed, free mode is not a competition, end of story. Also saying R* have done nothing is retarded, they already introduced a check on startup into multi and asked the people who made your mods to restrict the multi access, tho that has been defeated, it doesnt mean that R* condone it or that its now accepted just because its possible... Total f*cking joke. Hmm luckily I do have a clue about what R did on the technical side, and as stated they have done NOTHING to stop car spawners, nothing at all. All they did was renewed the file check, but that doesn't stop the car spawners. I am not suggesting that they don't care, but apparently they don't care enough to properly address the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Freemode has the same world rules as any other mode, unless someone cheats to change them. So R* did absolutely nothing, but they also did something, youre just full of dichotomies arnt you... Youre pretty f*cking stupid right here mate, but at least you accepted that this is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Freemode has the same world rules as any other mode, unless someone cheats to change them. So R* did absolutely nothing, but they also did something, youre just full of dichotomies arnt you... Youre pretty f*cking stupid right here mate, but at least you accepted that this is an issue. I don't like your debating style, it's not fair, you cheat in the debate so to speak. The discussion was about car spawning, my statement that they did nothing to prevent that still stands and is verifiable. You are trying to weaken my position by inventing contradictions that don't exist. Cheater ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Not really, R* contacting the guy who made the spawner and asking them to prevent them working online is also something, by ignoring this you are committing an exclusion fallacy by addressing only points that support your position while ignoring anything that doesnt. Logic dictates, something =/= nothing, most people here already realise that as self evident but it seems you needed a little pointer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Not really, R* contacting the guy who made the spawner and asking them to prevent them working online is also something, by ignoring this you are committing an exclusion fallacy by addressing only points that support your position while ignoring anything that doesnt. Logic dictates, something =/= nothing, most people here already realise that as self evident but it seems you needed a little pointer. I'm ignoring that, since it's there is not a single shread of evidence to support it. One coder who made a carspawner (that works online by the way) has denied that he was contacted by R, I myself made a trainer that also includes a car spawner, R didn't contact me either. Aru (creator of the scripthook) has indeed choosen to limit any mods that are based upon it, to be used in MP, but has nowhere claimed it was at R' s request. My trainer also works fully in MP, but I have choosen to only release a version that works in SP mode, not because R contacted me, but because I choose to do so. And I'm really tempted to release a version that works in free and party mode in addition to SP, since I believe it's the right thing to do. Now if only abusers would be banned, it would be absolutely perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Sorry, but to me R* is more credible than some r-tards who make tools that are obviously going to be abused, and were, to the extent that spawners and cheats were unavoidable for nearly a month... Their programs did more damage to the GTA-online community than all the pay-per-use hacks of all other games did to their communities combined imo... And i support that because i cant remember the last time i came across a hacker in BF or CSS, even though i know they exist, they are so rare, they arnt even in the same league... Any coder that makes apps that work online are simply cheat makers, i dont think there is really any other way to look at it. Edited April 21, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Sorry, but to me R* is more credible than some r-tards who make tools that are obviously going to be abused, and were, to the extent that spawners and cheats were unavoidable for nearly a month... Their programs did more damage to the GTA-online community than all the pay-per-use hacks of all other games did to their communities combined imo... And i support that because i cant remember the last time i came across a hacker in BF or CSS, even though i know they exist, they are so rare they arnt even in the same league... Right, so you are saying that you got your information from Rockstar ? Now how credible is that I wonder. And furthermore, doesn't that make R look like incompetent. The point you are completely missing is that those r-tards, actually made tools that have increased game pleasure for many people. That there are indeed some abusers is hardly the fault of the mod creators, it's thanks to R and MS complete and utter lack of support for the MP part of the game that these people got the chance to abuse these tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Another lesson in logic for you here, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" I would guess that for every 1 person who enjoys cheating, theres probably 10 that didnt enjoy getting cheated much, and a proportion of them that dont play the game any more... Ive been in many truck races where some cheat spawns an infurnace for himself... Its funny once, but when its guaranteed to happen, its gone toooooo far. And its not the mods fault, just like we dont blame the gun in murder cases. We blame the cheats or the killers respectively... Edited April 21, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Another lesson in logic for you here, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" I would guess that for every 1 person who enjoys cheating, theres probably 10 that didnt enjoy getting cheated much, and a proportion of them that dont play the game any more... Ive been in many truck races where some cheat spawns an infurnace for himself... Its funny once, but when its guaranteed to happen, its gone toooooo far. And its not the mods fault, just like we dont blame the gun in murder cases. We blame the cheats or the killers respectively... "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" It could easily be just the opposite, especially in the modes taht we are discussing here, free and party mode... We are NOT talking about races, FREE and Party mode, please try and keep up. " And its not the mods fault, just like we dont blame the gun in murder cases. We blame the cheats or the killers respectively..." Excactly. And that's how it should be in a normal society, people should be held accountable for their own actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) "Excactly. And that's how it should be in a normal society, people should be held accountable for their own actions." So blaming r* is stupid, and the only way to hold these people accountable is to stop them using mods, which incidentally means mods have to be unsupported in the game or they will be abused, which just so happens to be R*'s position. So by that standard, just having a mod installed and not even using it constitutes cheating in the most strict sense. And i think you are confusing objectives with rules. Race or free mode, the rules are the same, even though the objectives are different. Edited April 21, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 "Excactly. And that's how it should be in a normal society, people should be held accountable for their own actions." So blaming r* is stupid, and the only way to hold these people accountable is to stop them using mods, which incidentally means mods have to be unsupported in the game or they will be abused, which just so happens to be R*'s position. So by that standard, just having a mod installed and not even using it constitutes cheating in the most strict sense. And i think you are confusing objectives with rules. Race or free mode, the rules are the same, even though the objectives are different. R and Microsoft CAN be blamed as abusers who gets reported are not being banned. The way to hold people like that accountable is to ban them, just like R and MS said they would do 5 months ago... Objectives of the gamemode are relevant as to whether or not something can be called cheating. The rules of the game don't specifically forbid the spawning of cars for instance (the very subject of this thread). And it just happens to be great to be used in free and party mode, as the objectives of that game allow for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 "Objectives of the gamemode are relevant as to whether or not something can be called cheating. The rules of the game don't specifically forbid the spawning of cars for instance (the very subject of this thread). And it just happens to be great to be used in free and party mode, as the objectives of that game allow for it. Im pretty sure that tampering is specifically against the rules and terms of service... And as i said, your confusing rules with objectives again, just because you arnt interfering with any objectives in free mode, doesnt mean that its not cheating, it just means your not cheating to win. Just like spawning tug-boats on people in race isnt cheating to win, but its still cheating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 "Objectives of the gamemode are relevant as to whether or not something can be called cheating. The rules of the game don't specifically forbid the spawning of cars for instance (the very subject of this thread). And it just happens to be great to be used in free and party mode, as the objectives of that game allow for it. Im pretty sure that tampering is specifically against the rules and terms of service... And as i said, your confusing rules with objectives again, just because you arnt interfering with any objectives in free mode, doesnt mean that its not cheating, it just means your not cheating to win. Just like spawning tug-boats on people in race isnt cheating to win, but its still cheating... Someone spawning a car has not tampered with the game. All it takes is adding two files, no original files have been touched. I think you are handling a too broad meaning of the term cheating, in your example, people spawning tugboats at a race, that's not cheating, that's harrasment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) I know youd like there to be only one type of cheating, but then why are trainers in ALL single player games, also called 'cheats', even though no-one is getting harassed by them? Edited April 21, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I know youd like there to be only one type of cheating, but then why are trainers in ALL single player games, also called 'cheats', even though no-one is getting harassed? I don't know, it's not a cheat, they are trainers, they make things easier, and add features in the game to make it more fun, I don't consider them to be a cheat. The only thing you could say is that since they make it easier to beat the game, they are cheats,(godmode, unlimited ammo things like that). Spawning a car in a non competitive game mode, is not the same thing. There is nothing to be gained, except more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Someone spawning a car has not tampered with the game. All it takes is adding two files, no original files have been touched. LOL, so adding files to the game isnt tampering with, the game... Your position is getting more and more tenuous with each passing post. I suppose by that standard, the guy who sold you your car adding sawdust to the gearbox and egg to the rad, isnt tampering or cheating either LOL I don't know, it's not a cheat, they are trainers, they make things easier, and add features in the game to make it more fun, I don't consider them to be a cheat. The only thing you could say is that since they make it easier to beat the game, they are cheats,(godmode, unlimited ammo things like that). But they are UNIVERSALLY (other than you obviously) known as cheats. For someone who told me to go look up a dictionary definition, thats f*cking brutally stupid right here lol. Spawning a car in a non competitive game mode, is not the same thing. There is nothing to be gained, except more fun. But you can easily get away from someone who was trying to hunt you down, by simply spawning a faster car that the other player. That would be cheating as far as im concerned. Griefing players using only skill IS IN NO WAY CHEATING, in any game mode. Edited April 21, 2009 by Psymn321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Someone spawning a car has not tampered with the game. All it takes is adding two files, no original files have been touched. LOL, so adding files to the game isnt tampering with, the game... Your position is getting more and more tenuous with each passing post. I don't know, it's not a cheat, they are trainers, they make things easier, and add features in the game to make it more fun, I don't consider them to be a cheat. The only thing you could say is that since they make it easier to beat the game, they are cheats,(godmode, unlimited ammo things like that). But they are UNIVERSALLY (other than you obviously) known as cheats. For someone who told me to go look up a dictionary definition, thats f*cking brutally stupid right here lol. since you are keen on quoting dictionaries: to meddle, esp. for the purpose of altering, damaging, or misusing (usually fol. by with): Someone has been tampering with the lock. 2. to make changes in something, esp. in order to falsify (usually fol. by with): to tamper with official records. 3. to engage secretly or improperly in something. 4. to engage in underhand or corrupt dealings, esp. in order to influence improperly (usually fol. by with): Any lawyer who tries to tamper with a jury should be disbarred. Yes things like godmode are universally know as cheats, other things (like spawning a car) are obviously not, the best evidence is this very thread. There are many options in trainers that are not cheats, things like for instance locking the radio to a certain station, spawning a ramp to use with your car, just to name a few options. You are way to focussed on cheating, this game is not about winning or doing it by the book, it is also about having some fun. But hey since you think that someone who disagrees with you, is basically stupid, there is no further need to take this any further, as I have completely lost interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Dont know what the definition above proved for your argument, or what part of this thread demonstrates spawning cars online is not cheating but i did agree with this quote in its entirety... But hey since you think that someone who disagrees with you, is basically stupid, there is no further need to take this any further, as I have completely lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Dont know what the definition above proved for your argument, or what part of this thread demonstrates spawning cars online is not cheating but i did agree with this quote in its entirety... But hey since you think that someone who disagrees with you, is basically stupid, there is no further need to take this any further, as I have completely lost LOL, misquoting is also cheating. You have not given me a SINGLE reason why spawing cars in free or party mode is considered cheating, apart from your interpertation of the rules that forbid tampering with the software. Even in debate you try and be competitive, must be hard being you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpus Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 You have not given me a SINGLE reason why spawing cars in free or party mode is considered cheating, apart from your interpertation of the rules that forbid tampering with the software. You CLEARLY have absolutely NO idea WHATSOEVER of the meaning of "cheating" then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psymn321 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Even in debate you try and be competitive, must be hard being you . Debate that isnt competitive is called a 'chat', now get back into multi player and carry on spawning tug-boats you cheating little wussy prick And yes its hard sat here at work typing replies to retards, o woe is meeeeeeeeee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Even in debate you try and be competitive, must be hard being you . Debate that isnt competitive is called a 'chat', now get back into multi player and carry on spawning tug-boats you cheating little wussy prick And yes its hard sat here at work typing replies to retards, o woe is meeeeeeeeee Right, retard, little wussy prick, I'm sure you wouldn't have the balls to say to to my face. Be all competitive in a game, good on you, it probably makes up for the utter failure you are as a human being. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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