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Omnia sunt Communia

GTA Majestic City

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Pr0xy_fl00d3r

I like this, well done, its probabally the best, most well thought out one on here, in terms of characters that is.

Will you be making a map and more gangs?

I like the name also tounge.gif I always wondered what the GTA equivelant of London could be called.

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Mafioso86

 

I understand how its hard to make a plot for the protagonist as to why he comes to the city, but theres still more possibilities.

 

Ex: In my Lincoln state post the protagonist joins the army and gets set up, getting kicked out the army and having to come back to Burington. 

 

Heh... that's identical to what happens in VCS. In the end it's hard to make something truly original. Jacky mentioned that in every game the protagonist has been linked to LC which is something that had never really occurred to me. I think VCS is an exception... to my knowledge Vic had no connection to LC, but other than that he is right. I had actually been thinking it might be better if he was returning from somewhere other than Liberty City like continental Europe, Ireland, Asia, the Caribbean, Los Santos, etc... just for variety, but I see now that he wants to have that connection with LC.

 

Anyways Jacky, the stuff about the Turkish Mafia is really interesting to me. We don't have that over here in the states so it's kind of an alien concept for me. Just curious as to whether or not this is how they really are and what not. I mean are they known for driving tuner cars and having a major stake in drugs and fight clubs? I'm sure from movies and what not people around the world have a good concept of what the Italian-American Mafioso is or what the black gangbanger in America is... just wondering if you could give me a similar idea of what the Turkish gangster in Britain is all about, thanks.

 

Oh and I like your little slogan thing under the topic... but shouldn't it be "Liberty City ain't got nuffin' on us"? lol

Edited by Mafioso86

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DanManUtd

 

Anyways Jacky, the stuff about the Turkish Mafia is really interesting to me. We don't have that over here in the states so it's kind of an alien concept for me. Just curious as to whether or not this is how they really are and what not. I mean are they known for driving tuner cars and having a major stake in drugs and fight clubs? I'm sure from movies and what not people around the world have a good concept of what the Italian-American Mafioso is or what the black gangbanger in America is... just wondering if you could give me a similar idea of what the Turkish gangster in Britain is all about, thanks.

 

News paper article and some blog thing.

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Omnia sunt Communia
Anyways Jacky, the stuff about the Turkish Mafia is really interesting to me. We don't have that over here in the states so it's kind of an alien concept for me. Just curious as to whether or not this is how they really are and what not. I mean are they known for driving tuner cars and having a major stake in drugs and fight clubs? I'm sure from movies and what not people around the world have a good concept of what the Italian-American Mafioso is or what the black gangbanger in America is... just wondering if you could give me a similar idea of what the Turkish gangster in Britain is all about, thanks.

 

News paper article and some blog thing.

Thank you Dan, those are some really informative articles. They've given me lots of inspiration for Majestic City.

 

The concept of an illegal fight club is made-up on our end. We wanted to include them in the game and thought this would be an interesting way to do it. tounge.gif

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Spaghetti Cat

 

At first glance at the name, I thought it was a Atlantic City Knock-off.  So I'm guessing London?

Yes. A fictionalized version of London.

Sounds good. And like many have said before, nice job. cookie.gifcookie.gifcookie.gif for you both!

 

My only thoughts, and this isn't a knock, buuut it's outside the US. Most of us 'mericans would have no idea about most of these gangs. All I'm saying is that the story might have have to be brought in slow. It would be like if you started out working for that redneck guy at the start of Vice City. You'd be like...What the f- is he saying...but it would be British. All classy like with tea and crumpets and such. Plus, I don't know how R* would do turning the sarcasm gun against themselves ( don't get me started on East End Cockney) although I really don't put anything past them provided it's a good story.

 

Also, what would be some good movie references that this story would follow/mock?

 

Those are my thoughts, nice job. icon14.gif

I didn't knew anything about American gangs before I started playing GTA III. Gangs are most of the time introduced the right way by R* and if you still don't feel like you know them enough, search the internet..

Some people...Did you even read the post you quoted?

 

1) I liked the story/idea.

 

2) You quoted me as saying I really don't put anything past (R*) provided it's a good story

 

Supposing Jackie is looking for constructive critique, then I'm providing my view as an outsider, as an american.

When I think of England, I really don't think of large style gangs like we have here, Crips, Bloods, Ect. Not that there is no gangs in England But the view across the pond is that there is less crime in England. Don't have the facts at hand to back up that claim, but that is the prevailing view from over here. I mean even the police don't carry guns over there. (Right?) So what are they going to do while chasing you? Ask politely to slow down?

Since most of the GTA's are about the US, it would be wise to sloooooowly bring in the English culture. Maybe even have an American that he met in LC that would be a friend/contact. Kinda like Kent Paul in VC.

The arguments for setting GTA:neXt either inside our outside the US have been hashed and re-hashed so many times I really don't care to care to even go there. IMHO the series should stay in the US, but that's just one man's opinion. However, if the story is presented so that those of us used to being in 'merica will understand, then you have a winner.

 

As for movie references, I was thinking along the lines of Snatch or Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, but i didn't want to seem so Guy Richie centric.

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Pr0xy_fl00d3r
I mean even the police don't carry guns over there. (Right?) So what are they going to do while chasing you? Ask politely to slow down?

 

No, instead of firing weapons at people, they disarm people and make a successful arrest, or enforce police brutality on people, bastards mad.gif

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DanManUtd

 

But the view across the pond is that there is less crime in England. Don't have the facts at hand to back up that claim, but that is the prevailing view from over here.  I mean even the police don't carry guns over there. (Right?) So what are they going to do while chasing you? Ask politely to slow down?

 

Crime stats compared to New York.

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Spaghetti Cat

 

I mean even the police don't carry guns over there. (Right?) So what are they going to do while chasing you? Ask politely to slow down?

 

No, instead of firing weapons at people, they disarm people and make a successful arrest, or enforce police brutality on people, bastards mad.gif

common now, trying to make a realistic point. Am I correct in that the police don't carry guns? All I've seen on the TV is the police batons, unless that is something that has changed recently. My only point is that the police would be less effective against a gun-totting criminal.

 

And thanks DanManUtd, I was too lazy to do my own research. icon14.gif

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Pr0xy_fl00d3r
No, instead of firing weapons at people, they disarm people and make a successful arrest, or enforce police brutality on people, bastards mad.gif

common now, trying to make a realistic point. Am I correct in that the police don't carry guns? All I've seen on the TV is the police batons, unless that is something that has changed recently. My only point is that the police would be less effective against a gun-totting criminal.

 

And thanks DanManUtd, I was too lazy to do my own research. icon14.gif

We do have armed police, but they dont walk the streets waving guns about and fire warning shots at shoplifters. (Yes, I got that from police camera action, It happened in the USA)

 

The armed police units are used in the UK quite alot, in airports, subway stations, drug raids and much more.

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Omnia sunt Communia

Regular Police Officers don't carry firearms, that's correct. However the Metropolitan Police have several specialist units that do field weapons in the event of immediate danger. These include SO19 (English equivalent to SWAT).

 

user posted image

 

Another thing to note is that when British Police Officers field firearms, they usually go for the Heckler & Koch MP5; as opposed to an 9mm pistol. That means the Police will be a lot harder to deal with in Majesty City. SO19 usually use MP5s, G36s and M16s.

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Spaghetti Cat

^^^Thanks that clears it up for me.

 

And I don't know what kind of TV shows you have over there, but our cops don't randomly shoot into the air like Yosemity Sam tounge.gif

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General Goose

Awesome. As a Londoner myself, I always wanted my city to be terrorised in a fictional crime game. devil.gif

 

Any news on radio (parodies of LBC and BBC) and the map? (As a North Londoner, are North London suburbs gonna be in it?)

 

And yeah, regular patrol police won't be a problem. But here's an idea: Majestic City (or the politicians) has been so gripped by the fear of terrorism that cameras are on every corner, every officer has a gun and the government tracks your every move. And you gotta include a few scathing references to recent Met police scandals. rolleyes.gif

Edited by General Goose

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Dragonex100
Regular Police Officers don't carry firearms, that's correct. However the Metropolitan Police have several specialist units that do field weapons in the event of immediate danger. These include SO19 (English equivalent to SWAT).

 

user posted image

 

Another thing to note is that when British Police Officers field firearms, they usually go for the Heckler & Koch MP5; as opposed to an 9mm pistol. That means the Police will be a lot harder to deal with in Majesty City. SO19 usually use MP5s, G36s and M16s.

Why would the police not have weapons? In america everyone more or less can own a fire arm, while in London the normal police dont even have a gun? If GTA was set in London, how would the police work?

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Omnia sunt Communia

Because in the United Kingdom we do not have the "right to bare arms." The Government sees them as dangerous weapons (where would they get that idea?) and because of that they are illegal. Now, since these weapons are illegal, not every one will have them. That means Police Officers don't need to worry about every two-bit criminal pulling a gun on them.

 

However, people can still obtain weapons illegally. Thus we have specialist firearms units who can field firearms in order to deal with these criminals. They tend to wield much more powerful weapons than the regular American copper.

 

I believe the Wanted Level system in Majestic City would go something like this:

  • 1 Star: Police approach on foot
  • 2 Star: Police attack using batons and tazer guns
  • 3 Star: SO19 are called in, wielding H&K MP5s
  • 4 Star: SO19 start fielding more powerful weapons
  • 5 Star: SAS are called in
  • 6 Star: SAS again, but more powerful
This only a rough draft, however. I will write a more detailed version later on down the line.

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General Goose
Why would the police not have weapons? In america everyone more or less can own a fire arm, while in London the normal police dont even have a gun? If GTA was set in London, how would the police work?

The fact that even regular police don't usually have a firearm (they do have weapons, just not firearms) is because Britain is, in most places, much safer then the USA due to tighter gun crime laws.

 

And the wanted system would need reworking, hopefully making a more realistic (with tweaks, realistic even for American-set GTA) and interesting force. IRL police will never shot you for punching an officer, even if you do pretend to surrender.

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Dragonex100

Well, you guys have me convinced biggrin.gif

 

Sorry, I dont know much about London, I've never been out of the states.

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General Goose

I believe the Wanted Level system in Majestic City would go something like this:

  • 1 Star: Police approach on foot
  • 2 Star: Police attack using batons and tazer guns
  • 3 Star: SO19 are called in, wielding H&K MP5s
  • 4 Star: SO19 start fielding more powerful weapons
  • 5 Star: SAS are called in
  • 6 Star: SAS again, but more powerful

While it's realistic, 1 and 2 star wanted levels seem way too easy, especially if crimes progress in the same way. Which is why I recommend a bit of artistic license and it make so that the threat of terrorism means officers carry guns. Still, police should treat you differently depending on your crime (throwing a cup at an officer will never get you shoot at, just warned, then if you carry on being annoying, they'll attempt to arrest you. Faking arrest then running away will not get you shot. Meanwhile, shooting a pedestrian may get warning shots fired and officers may shot to incapacitate.)

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ScratchCard

I believe the Wanted Level system in Majestic City would go something like this:

 

1 Star: Police approach on foot

 

2 Star: Police attack using batons and tazer guns

 

3 Star: SO19 are called in, wielding H&K MP5s

 

4 Star: SO19 start fielding more powerful weapons

 

5 Star: SAS are called in

 

6 Star: SAS again, but more powerful

 

While it's realistic, 1 and 2 star wanted levels seem way too easy, especially if crimes progress in the same way. Which is why I recommend a bit of artistic license and it make so that the threat of terrorism means officers carry guns. Still, police should treat you differently depending on your crime (throwing a cup at an officer will never get you shoot at, just warned, then if you carry on being annoying, they'll attempt to arrest you. Faking arrest then running away will not get you shot. Meanwhile, shooting a pedestrian may get warning shots fired and officers may shot to incapacitate.)

SAS are pretty much the British SEALS right? Would they really come to hunt down a criminal?

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nerner
SAS are pretty much the British SEALS right? Would they really come to hunt down a criminal?

They are the British SEALS really, they would come to get you if you were a realistic threat, like if you were shooting at a group of peds and police for about 2 days, and were not surrendering, why was the army called on you if you had 6 stars in previous GTAs?

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Pr0xy_fl00d3r

On one star, the police should be able to tackle you down to make an arrest.

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Spaghetti Cat

 

I believe the Wanted Level system in Majestic City would go something like this:

 

1 Star: Police approach on foot

 

2 Star: Police attack using batons and tazer guns

 

3 Star: SO19 are called in, wielding H&K MP5s

 

4 Star: SO19 start fielding more powerful weapons

 

5 Star: SAS are called in

 

6 Star: SAS again, but more powerful

 

This only a rough draft, however. I will write a more detailed version later on down the line.

Sounds good. The non-lethal weapon bit is one of the features that needs to be in neXt. Friggin Tazers smile.gif or even mace would be nice.

 

If I had a say it would be:

  • 1 Star: Police approach on foot (can use batons in chase. this would be the standard foot chase like in IV)
  • 2 Star: Police attack with tazer guns (and/or mace. this would be like a ** in IV. the drunk affect would be nice if your hit w/ a tazer)
  • 3 Star: SO19 are called in, wielding H&K MP5s (like a *** in IV. better AI this time around)
  • 4 Star: (whatever the FIB is called over there ((MI-6??)) is called in)
  • 5 Star: SAS are called in (fielding more powerful weapons. some type of heavy machine gun)
  • 6 Star: (the palace guards are called in. the ones with the funny hats tounge2.gif)

 

J/K on the last one, but there need to be some kind of elite military unit for 6 stars. It would also be nice if your gang if your gang is involved in gun running. That way it would be fairly easy to get around the stringent gun laws.

 

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DanManUtd

Riot Police + Road blocks could be included somewhere...

 

But for me I'd have:

 

1 & 2* the same,

3* I'd have Riot Police +Road Blocks (or just roadblocks and stingers),

4* I'd have the SO19s (Specialized Firearms Command) since they're the British equivalent of the SWAT,

5* I'd have the Territorial Army (since the FBI equivalent in Britain is SOCA and they don't have officers as such),

6* I'd have the SAS.

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Omnia sunt Communia

I've done some research into the British Police Service and designed a revamped version of the Wanted Level System. Tell me what you think:

 

 

Wanted Level Image Description
1 Star user posted image Unarmed Police Officers. They will approach on foot and will try and apprehend you using non-lethal force.
2 Star user posted image Armed Officers. They will use non-lethal weapons such as mace, batons and tazer guns to try and subdue you before arresting you.
3 Star user posted image Riot Police. They are heavily armed variants of the standard police officer. Riot Police arrive in large armoured Riot Vans and field riot shields and batons. They are also known to use rubber pellet shotguns (will damage you and knock you off your feet) as well as tear gas. They advance in large numbers.
4 Star user posted image AFO (Authorized Firearms Officers). Armed with 9mm Pistols and MP5s the AFO arrive in heavily armoured police cars (ARV (Armoured Response Vehicles). They will try to subdue you before arresting you though they are known to open fire on a dangerous target.
5 Star user posted image SO19. The British equivalent to American SWAT teams. SO19 are equipped with MP5's, G36's, shotguns and bullet proof vests. They will set up snipers across the roof tops as well as in helicopters.
6 Star user posted image SAS. These are a special forces unit with years of training. They are heavily armoured and use advance tactics to bring their target down. They use MP5s and G36s. SAS will shoot to kill.

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Mafioso86

The problem I see with the wanted level system you guys are showing is that while it's realistic based on the levels of British police... it probably isn't realistic with the crime. I mean you usually get one star in GTA for firing a weapon or shooting a ped or whatever... and the British police would not send unarmed officers to take care of someone with a gun. There's two ways I could see of dealing with this... one would be to have the street cops you see walking around the city be unarmed but once you get the wanted level the armed police come after you, kinda how like in all the other GTAs you never see SWAT, FBI, or military on the streets unless you have the wanted level that corresponds with them. So you wouldn't really ever see the armed police unless you had one star. The second idea (which could actually be combined with the first now that I think about it) would be to change which crimes get which wanted levels. For example if you punch a ped or bump a police car you would get one star and the unarmed police/police armed with non lethal weapons would come after you. But if you commit a crime involving a firearm it's an automatic two-star and the armed police come after you. So yeah... the cops you see walking around the city would be armed with nothing more than batons or stun guns (except maybe at like the airport or anywhere else there might be armed police... I'm sure the UK guys know better than me where there might be armed police), but once you get two stars (which anything involving a firearm would entail) the armed police are sent in.

 

Anyways... been looking forward to additions to the characters/plot/gangs Jacky... Bring on the Yardies, Russians, and 14k! A map with neighborhoods would be cool too... I would be happy to give that a shot. I'm fairly familiar with the layout of London itself... but I don't know the neighborhoods that well. If you're interested let me know and hook me up with a little info.

 

Also... not to get to lengthy, but I'm really feeling this and I was thinking about vehicles. I made a little mention about it over in the other thread in the writers place... but it got me thinking about what cars from GTAIV would be in this game (really what cars from GTAIV would you find in the UK). You mentioned a Stallion in the one mission over there which kinda surprised me... I didnt think you guys had old school muscle cars over there, am I wrong? Anyways here's what I was thinking for cars (along with their RL counterparts) that would be found in Majestic City....

 

-Comet (Porsche)

-Infernus (Lamborghini)

-Sultan (Lexus IS)

-Super GT (Aston Martin)

-Turismo (Ferrari)

-Blista (Honda CRX)

-Feltzer (Mercedes SL)

-Futo (old school Corolla)

-Sentinel (BMW 3-series)

-Uranus (Ford Escort Cosworth... a car we don't even have in the US... I can see a little Saab in it as well)

-Chavos (I've heard everything from Honda to Peugeot for the basis of this car... in the end it's just a saloon that I think you could see in Europe)

-Cognoscenti (Maybach)

-DF8-90 (Something about it reminds me a bit of the Vauxhall Monaro... just me?)

-Dilettante (You do have the Prius in the UK, right?)

-Feroci (Lexus GS)

-Hakumai (old school Honda)

-Ingot (VW Estate)

-Intruder (I always thought it looked like an Infiniti... but I'm not sure if you have those in the UK... anyways, I have seen similar large Japanese luxury cars in movies based in Britain)

-Lokus (I always thought it looked a bit like a French car)

-Oracle (BMW 7-series)

-Pinnacle (Looks a lot like the Nissan Altima/Maxima we have in the US, don't think they sell that in the UK... still I figure it looks enough like something you would see in Europe)

-Schafter (Mercedes S-Class)

-Vincent (Mitsubishi Galant)

-Habanero (Lexus RX)

-Huntley Sport (Range Rover Sport)

-Perennial (Looks a lot more like cars I've seen in movies taking place in Europe/Asia than anything you see on the streets in the US)

-Rebla (Mercedes M-Class/BMW X5)

-Solair (Wagons, or Estates as you call them, are no where near as popular stateside as they are in Europe)

-Stratum (see above)

 

Well that's my list... if there's anything there that doesn't sound right, or anything that you think should be in there (i left out the big American cars and SUVs), let me know, I live in the states so I'm not an expert. As far as things I would like to see that weren't in IV... Jaguars, Bentleys, Rolls Royce (someone had the idea of a car based on the Phantom called the Poltergeist which sounded awesome), more hatchbacks and subcompacts (Mini!), oldschool British roadsters, French cars (we don't have any here, but I think they're pretty popular in Europe).

 

 

Edited by Mafioso86

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Omnia sunt Communia

Thank you for your post, Mafioso86, you obviously put lots of thought into it.

 

Since guns are illegal in Majestic City - they will play less of an role in this game - that means that once you do obtain a firearm; firing it off in front of a police officer will result in an instant 3 Star Wanted Level (as opposed to the previous 1 Star). Killing an officer would result in an instant 4/5 Star Wanted Level.

 

The characters and gangs are being introduced gradually as me and Chunk discover ways to incorporate them into the story. This topic is actually ahead of the one in Writer's Discussion as we already decided to include the Maummar Brothers in here, even though we haven't met them yet.

 

We do have muscle cars over here, yes. However they're imports and very rare. There is one in my village though - oddly enough. Though Timothy imported his own muscle car, or obtained it somewhere else. You will still see them on the streets of Majestic City, they'll just be rare.

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ScratchCard

This idea keeps getting better. I want more crimes to commit in GTA - pickpocking, robberies, arms/drugs dealing etc.

 

Also, I like the idea of having more melee combat.

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DanManUtd

 

The characters and gangs are being introduced gradually as me and Chunk discover ways to incorporate them into the story. This topic is actually ahead of the one in Writer's Discussion as we already decided to include the Maummar Brothers in here, even though we haven't met them yet.

 

http://www.piczo.com/gangsinlondon?cr=2

 

Hope that helps icon14.gif

Edited by DanManUtd

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Spaghetti Cat

Two thoughts:

 

First, I like the set-up, but on thing that bugs me is the Riot Police. I think that the roadblocks, spike strips (stingers) and even tear gas (yes I'm on a non-lethal kick lately) should come into play around the 2 or 3 star level. As far as I'm aware, Riot Police are more for crowd control rather than law enforcement. Maybe it's different over there, but here the Riot Police are only seen during political conventions or other large gatherings of people. Not really designed for going after one man, see what I mean?

 

Second, the highest you could go up in stars for any single thing was 3. (like hitting a cop car with a RPG). So jumping right to four stars for shooting an officer seems to be a little over-kill. (no pun intended) I believe keeping it at 3 stars (with some better AI) would be the right way to go.

 

/hope that helps

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Dragonex100
Two thoughts:

 

First, I like the set-up, but on thing that bugs me is the Riot Police. I think that the roadblocks, spike strips (stingers) and even tear gas (yes I'm on a non-lethal kick lately) should come into play around the 2 or 3 star level. As far as I'm aware, Riot Police are more for crowd control rather than law enforcement. Maybe it's different over there, but here the Riot Police are only seen during political conventions or other large gatherings of people. Not really designed for going after one man, see what I mean?

 

Second, the highest you could go up in stars for any single thing was 3. (like hitting a cop car with a RPG). So jumping right to four stars for shooting an officer seems to be a little over-kill. (no pun intended) I believe keeping it at 3 stars (with some better AI) would be the right way to go.

 

/hope that helps

There will have to be tweaks in the wanted lvl system. Like if you went and destroyed an airplane in the airport with an RPG, you should get like 4 or 5 stars automatically. Also, spike strips aren't realistic, in Vice City they where stupid, the cops just somehow threw them as if they always carry a big thing of spiky metal.

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Pr0xy_fl00d3r

The SAS are probabally, without a doubt the best in the world, having them trying to track you down would be insane. You should have them sh*tty community patrol officers out aswell, they could act like the PIG's from Vice city.

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