Why "Deal" is probable Canon

[Versityle]

No doubt that "Revenge" is the better path in terms of gameplay and what we would have prefered on an emotional aspect. I too think it's better but the reason I prefer "Deal" is becuase I see it as the probable canon. Most can argue that both paths are up for interpretation and are both well suited for Niko's character development.

 

Someone had mentioned on another thread that the ending is more bitter as the consequences Niko faces proves more moral based as he has lost his cousin to money and discovers that money isn't everything. The game itself I think pushes more toward the "Deal" as Roman sends many texts and Niko actually did agree to do it until he learned of Dimitri's location. Niko would likely want to find the good in himself and not take revenge (of course he'd be going against every fiber of his body but still) with a heavy heart he'd let it pass, for once follow his cousin's wishes and if Dimitri tried to pull any sh*t, he'd be ready. My only issue is that he'd be going against Kate and her words are pretty wise to Roman's but this is my ultimate reason of why "Deal" is the more appropriate ending to the game:

 

It sums up the whole arc of GTA IV!

 

As you may have noticed throughout all the GTA games from GTA III is that there is always one huge arc that covers the game and it is split it to many smaller arcs pertaining to a certain character. There are many in IV but here are few examples:

 

Roman's Debts - The first mini-arc in the game where you're working for Vlad and Roman to help pay off his debts.

The Holland Boys - Getting involved with Playboy X and Dwaynes past and trying to make amends meet.

McReary's - Connecting with all McReary's and helping them with whatever they need help with.

The Commission - Helping out the Mafia and Pegorino get his shares for the commission in Liberty City

 

When doing "A Revenger's Tragedy" - Your chasing Dimitri, he's the final boss and this is where you get your final revenge, Roman's death was the last straw after you decided to leave him alone. Killing him wraps up the arc that had proceeded from Crime and Punishment and Russian Revolution way back in Hove Beach and this of course was a huge arc that played through most of the game seeing as it was revisited in such missions like "Hostile Negotiation" and "Union Drive".

 

But when doing "Out of Commission" - The title says it all. This mission wraps up the Commission arc of the game which didn't really play that big of a role until very recently and it has little to no relevance to Niko's main reason of why he came to Liberty City. This mission has to do with revenge for Kate and Pegorino's expulsion to the commission, I personally don't think a mission like that suites the finale after the story we've been proceeded by.

 

But nonetheless, the "Revenge" path works but "Deal" I feel is more appropriate as it sums up the arc of GTA IV whereas "Out of Commission" sums up the arc of just Pegorino and the relationship with Kate both of which would have happened either way.

[nemesi5]

Simple because people do it for the benefit, this also goes for Playboy X & Dwayne, if you killl Dwayne, you get nothing in return, but if you kill Playboy X, you will get a loft & a friend. The same goes for Revenge & Deal, you get roman and his cab + the benefit of having your cousin there with you, as with deal you get nothing in return except for Kate's sympathy

[Duxfever]

Simple because people do it for the benefit, this also goes for Playboy X & Dwayne, if you killl Dwayne, you get nothing in return, but if you kill Playboy X, you will get a loft & a friend. The same goes for Revenge & Deal, you get roman and his cab + the benefit of having your cousin there with you, as with deal you get nothing in return except for Kate's sympathy

And if you call mostly anyone right after Mr. & Mrs. Bellic, them, too.

[creat3d22]

Why would either ending be "canon" if the story's over?

[El Zilcho]

That's true. I mentioned this in my Liberty City Connectrions thread in TLAD, I said Deal was probably canon.

[The Notorious MOB]

I think the ending would work best as a mixture of both the "Deal" ending and the "Revenge" ending.

 

It would go like so:

Niko Takes the deal and goes to the Warehouse with Phil to see it through but when they get there they find out Dimitri has taken the Herion for himself. Niko and Phil must then fight their way out.

 

Niko then finds out that Dimitri is loading the drugs onto the Platypus in a bid to escape so he goes there to get his Revenge. He battles through several of Dimitri's men and finnally kills him in the ship's hull.

 

From this point on the story follows the "Revenge" path i.e at Roman's wedding Jimmy Pegorino does a drive by in front of the church and Accidently Kills Kate because he's furios that he's left with nothing.

You then go to the Casino and Avenge Kates Death/Get back at Jimmy P for trying to kill you. And the story ends with you killing him on Happiness Island.

 

This way it ties up the loose ends of Dimitri and Jimmy in the better fashion (IMO) And you still get to experience the epic gunfight in the warehouse and get the money.

[El Zilcho]

 

I think the ending would work best as a mixture of both the "Deal" ending and the "Revenge" ending.

 

It would go like so:

Niko Takes the deal and goes to the Warehouse with Phil to see it through but when they get there they find out Dimitri has taken the Herion for himself. Niko and Phil must then fight their way out.

 

Niko then finds out that Dimitri is loading the drugs onto the Platypus in a bid to escape so he goes there to get his Revenge. He battles through several of Dimitri's men and finnally kills him in the ship's hull.

 

From this point on the story follows the "Revenge" path i.e at Roman's wedding Jimmy Pegorino does a drive by in front of the church and Accidently Kills Kate because he's furios that he's left with nothing.

You then go to the Casino and Avenge Kates Death/Get back at Jimmy P for trying to kill you. And the story ends with you killing him on Happiness Island.

 

This way it ties up the loose ends of Dimitri and Jimmy in the better fashion (IMO) And you still get to experience the epic gunfight in the warehouse and get the money. 

I'd like that, but Jimmy P was a two bit player, he wasn't as big a villian or as annoying as Dimitri. Dimitri was always f*cking your sh*t up and kidnapping your loved ones, it was more of a climax to chase him down and gun the tw*t to pieces on Happines Island. Your ending was a good one becuse it was more of a happy ending, and rapped it up, and made more sense. It was what Niko would probably have done, not one or the other. But on the other hand, I just prefer the Deal final mission, it's more epic and cinematic, and no one liked Kate anyway, while Roman was alright. So you had more insentive to waste Dimitri than you had to waste Jimmy (In fact, I didn't draw any satisfaction from Jimmy's death, while I was glad Dimitri died a painful death.)

 

I thought that the whole Revenge ending made playing the game after you complete it more fun, but the Deal had so much more meaning to it, shown by the parting shot. On Revenge its just a sunny day, but on Deal Niko tried to help his loved ones, and lost everything. He couldn't save what mattered most, and by trying to help them, he loses them. Also, the Deal parting shot is a rainy and stormy day, more climactic and more film like. Niko is left embittered, whilein Revenge I'm sure Niko would go on with life very soon after. To be honest, Revenge sucked balls. Maybe if Niko lost Packie, or Jacob or someone else, it would have mroe insentive to kill Jimmy P.

 

Or even better, after you do the deal, Jimmy P goes after Dimitri to kill him for trying to backstab you. You continue working for Jimmy and he helps you track down Dimitri after he kills Jacob at the wedding (or whatever friend). Then you get Jimmy P side missions. And if you do revenge, you kill Dimtri and Roman is shot my Jimmy? That way it's so much more personal, and emotional. And it works out better, rather than losing some bitch you've known for a week and doesn't even put out. That's what I'd do as the ending.

Edited April 9, 2009 by El Zilcho

[foohy]

Why would either ending be "canon" if the story's over?

Exactly. BOTH endings are cannon seeing as Niko's story is over. It doesn't matter which ending you choose it's still the end of the story.

Any mention of the end of Niko's story in DLC2 will most likely just mention a death at a wedding ambiguously if at all.

[The 7th Number]

I think the revenge is the more realistic ending. Sure it would pain niko more if the deal ending really happened and roman died. But niko wouldnt do the deal with dimitri again. After he kidnaps roman, he would never work with him again no matter how much money is involved.

 

Plus if we really went with the story, we should have really felt a lot about kate. She was the one niko really liked, and it seemed like they wanted to settle down and get married. When she is killed that ends nikos shot of having a normal life. But i dont think Rockstar really executed it well enough, so most people didnt really care about Kate like we should have.

 

Also with Playboy x and Dwayne, sure more people kill Playboy X for the perks and safehouse. But if you stick to the story, Niko would kill X anyway. Because Niko sees himself in dwayne. Playboy X also seems more interested in himself than actually helping out any kids like he says he does.

 

The game makes it obvious which way you should go, but gives you the choice. Killing X, Frankie, and choosing Revenge seem like the way the story should go.

Edited April 9, 2009 by The 7th Number

[Rucke]

as with deal you get nothing in return except for Kate's sympathy

And the $250000 from the drugdeal with Dimitri and Phil.

[El Zilcho]

as with deal you get nothing in return except for Kate's sympathy

And the $250000 from the drugdeal with Dimitri and Phil.

To sweeten the deal, (or should I say Revenge) if you choose to go after Jimmy, when you kill him in Revenge, you get $250,000 anyway, and don't lose Roman. It was a gameplay element though, in the story Niko gets nothing. But it was so player's didn't feel cheated I guess.

[The Notorious MOB]

I think Niko would've wanted to get revenge before "That Special Something" but after that mission whichever choice you make he realises that holding grudges is stupid. So I think he would've taken the deal with this in mind. I just said it should be a mixture of both because Niko even at his most tolerant would only be able top take so much from Dimitri and when he wrecked the Deal it would've been the last strawe forcing him to enact Revenge. Also it gives the best Results... Roman lives,You get to do an epic mission with Phil Bell and still get to kill Dimitri and Jimmy P rather than having Dimitri shoot him.

[Lil' Red]

Reason why deal is not canon:

 

You lose both Roman and Kate

 

in revenge you only lose Kate, who I really didn't give a sh*t about to start with

 

Also why the hell would Niko want to work with Dimitri again, does that seem canon to you? Revenge is the more sensible path since both endings end up the same way more or less.

[foohy]

 

Reason why deal is not canon:

 

You lose both Roman and Kate

 

in revenge you only lose Kate, who I really didn't give a sh*t about to start with

 

Also why the hell would Niko want to work with Dimitri again, does that seem canon to you? Revenge is the more sensible path since both endings end up the same way more or less.

That is personal opinion. Deal sounds more cannon if anything, though, as Roman's death is much more sad. Kate's death is just kind of "well...oh well".

 

Allthough BOTH are cannon! Because Niko's story is OVER. R* hates his voice actor now so it's extremly doubtful that the next DLC will star him...Kate dies? Cannon. Rman dies? Cannon. Aliens abduct Little Jacob due to a code conflict with The Sims 2 which is also installed on your computer? Cannon.

[ScratchCard]

 

Reason why deal is not canon:

 

You lose both Roman and Kate

 

in revenge you only lose Kate, who I really didn't give a sh*t about to start with

 

Also why the hell would Niko want to work with Dimitri again, does that seem canon to you? Revenge is the more sensible path since both endings end up the same way more or less.

That is personal opinion. Deal sounds more cannon if anything, though, as Roman's death is much more sad. Kate's death is just kind of "well...oh well".

 

Allthough BOTH are cannon! Because Niko's story is OVER. R* hates his voice actor now so it's extremly doubtful that the next DLC will star him...Kate dies? Cannon. Rman dies? Cannon. Aliens abduct Little Jacob due to a code conflict with The Sims 2 which is also installed on your computer? Cannon.

Lol at the Jacob thing

 

But the 'happy ever after' thing probarly isn't canon - if R* wanted a happy story, they would have made the protagonist a Tweenie!

[The 7th Number]

That is personal opinion. Deal sounds more cannon if anything, though, as Roman's death is much more sad. Kate's death is just kind of "well...oh well".

Like i said above, Kates ending is more of an "oh well", because Rockstar didnt do a great job of making us fall in love with the character. If they did something more to have us like the character more, and have feelings for Kate, it would have been pulled off better. That doesnt mean because we didnt feel as strongly to losing Kate as we did to losing Roman, that Romans death is the cannon ending. I think the revenge is cannon simply because Niko wouldnt work with dimitri again, he dont care about money like roman does so he wouldnt listen to him, and Kate was the one he could really love and settle down with. Niko liked Kate and he would go with her advice over Roman because Roman is an idiot. So Niko would go for revenge, so he could stop having Dimitri invade his life over and over. Then Kate dies and gives Niko no chance at a regular life. Because Kate is the only girl in the game he really liked.

[foohy]

That is personal opinion. Deal sounds more cannon if anything, though, as Roman's death is much more sad. Kate's death is just kind of "well...oh well".

Like i said above, Kates ending is more of an "oh well", because Rockstar didnt do a great job of making us fall in love with the character. If they did something more to have us like the character more, and have feelings for Kate, it would have been pulled off better. That doesnt mean because we didnt feel as strongly to losing Kate as we did to losing Roman, that Romans death is the cannon ending. I think the revenge is cannon simply because Niko wouldnt work with dimitri again, he dont care about money like roman does so he wouldnt listen to him, and Kate was the one he could really love and settle down with. Niko liked Kate and he would go with her advice over Roman because Roman is an idiot. So Niko would go for revenge, so he could stop having Dimitri invade his life over and over. Then Kate dies and gives Niko no chance at a regular life. Because Kate is the only girl in the game he really liked.

They are BOTH cannon. As was the whole story. GTAIV you can play as a bad or good person. Both endings fit both personalities though. Let me explain.

 

If you played as a good guy then:

Deal seems like what you've been trying to do from the start...take care of yourself and Roman. Kate doesn't realize that the alternative to working with Demetri is killing him so her opinion is kind of moot. You can become rich and move away from all the people that have you under their thumb.

 

Revenge is one last bad deed that will free you and Roman from Demetri and his 'vendetta' against you. Bury the hatchett.

 

If you played as a bad guy then:

Deal is a way to become rich and powerful. To be the boss instead of the employee, so to speak.

 

Revenge will satisfy your rage againast Demetri and let you do what you've been craving to do from the start. Kill Demetri.

 

 

As you can see they can both be interpreted as good or bad and they both are equally as likely to be cannon if, by a remote chance, Niko is the protagonist of DLC2.

[MitchJ90]

Roman dying defferently should be canon, so much better than Kate dying storyline wise. Which is also a shame seeing how awesome he is.

Edited April 10, 2009 by MitchJ90