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Dingdongs

Creationism or Evolution?

Recommended Posts

Kanja

I'm A Muslim i Believe Allah Almighty Created this Universe and yeah Sanjeeem is Right good Work Bro i seen you Topic where you tried To make reputation of Islam so that's Great Thanks

 

And Guys Why all have Problem with Islam and Muslims. Why you always Cristie Muslims i know why Bcuz you Think that we are Terrorists only this Are you all Dumb and Don't have Any Mind or a Thing called Brain that you believe in propaganda that some corrupted peoples are doing also it is mentioned in Quaran That If a person Which is A Muslim Kill any Innocent People whether only One He is Out From Islam and He will never Go To Heaven and always in Hell. and BTW Why only we Muslims are Always Criticized if one kills any Then The News Broadcast On T.V That "A Islamic Warrior which was Related With Al Jihad name Yusuf Killed 1 Jew For No reason" and every one say that this is cruelty then why not this happen to other Religions like now hear me don't leave you have to answer this one

 

" In philistine Israelis are killing 1000+ innocent Muslims for no reason Reason is only that they are Muslims and I can't even Explain their method they kill Muslim Mens and Rape (I have no Power To Explain this i feel Dumb whenever i think) Muslims Girls and Womens shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh That is your Equality. if i would be there and some one Try to touch my sis or Mother i will accept Die as compared to live and i also will Kill the person who want to do this.

 

You say that should be peace on Earth lol Islam only teaches about Peace and Every one knows Read Holy Quran Before Saying any Thing about Islam (Please).and I Chellenge That Islam Satisfy Science and Islam Told 1400 years before Science that Earth Round about Sun and Sun is also Orbiting i Chellange Find any Scientific Error in Quaran. And also we respect all Religions We Respect Jesus(PBUH) we just Believe that He was Messenger Of God (Allah Almighty) as written in Quran If any Muslim Donot Believe in Jesus (PBUH) He is'nt a Muslim until he Donot admit that Jesus (PBUH)Was Messanger of Allah Almighty. And also The Book Bible isn't in it's Original Form like it was On The Period Of Jesus(PBUH).Some Versus of Bilble are Changed. But I Chellenge Compare the Before 1400 Hunderd Years Quran and Now these Days and Also Compared The Quran Of This World like One From Asia One From Africa wherever you want And Find just only 0.1 Unsimilarity I will Suicide Yeah I will Suicide i know this can't Happen So This is a Proof.

 

Back On Topic: Are You all Mindless or have No Brain Don't make me laugh saying that there is No Creator Of This Universe HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH How can this Whole Universe have No Creator i'm The Student Of Space Engineering i know and i believe that Allah Almighty Created this Universe. And These are My Quotation Which I say To Every One " When a Man Think about Universe Them How can't he Think about Creator and How can't He Think About Creator's Greatness Have they No Brains"(KANJA)

 

if You say that You are Built From A Clot of Blood and God Didn't created You then I Know a lot of Person Who has married 40 years and still has no child Why whether they are Still Contacting to Doctors why Bcuz a man has No Power On this It is upon God.

 

Also When you see a Wonderful Thing You say wow Cool Who made it? and You Are saying that this Universe has no Creator Good hahahahahahahahaha When Every Thing has a Creator Then Why Not This Universe Only For Bcuz you Don't Like Muslims and wanna Wrong Them in any where

 

 

 

I beleive in God (Allah) too. And that he was behind the Big bang theory, In the qu'ran it sais how the universe was created, The words wern't Big Bang theory, but what scientists beleived to what happened, it relates with the quran and the quran was written Thousands and thousands of years before.

Thousands and thousands of years before what?

 

Actually, forget it, the quran was written after the year 0, so it can't possibly be more than 1000-something years.

 

Oh and I believe in evolution for obvious reasons.

Before scientists speculated the Big Bang Theory.

So about 1300 years?

Well a lot of the teachings of Islam are based on (copied from) those of much older Abrahamic religions, mostly old testament scriptures which are thousands of years old. Most Muslims like Sanjeem believe the teachings of Muhammed are the cherry on top - the finishing off and reitteration of scriptures they believe have been lost or changed.

 

@ Sanjeem: Does it really talk about the big bang theory or suggest it in the Quran/older scriptures it's based on, or does it simply say God (Allah in Arabic) created it? If so I think your belief is the same as Mad Tony's.

 

I agree that the Quran for the most part copied stories from the Old Testament, and it seems like it did happen because of the dates of when it was written compared to the bibles.

 

Bible was also the Book sent By ALLAH Almighty So Allah can Quote that on Quran But We Don't also Agree Now that This Bible is The real Which Allah Sent So This BiBle is changed Alot Yeah Reallly.

 

 

You will See after Some time I Think I should Stop Now Btw i don't want That You Be Muslim I just wanna Say Please Respect Other's Belief/Believes and Don't Critise or Interfere on their Religions You have your Own Choice and Belief We Don't Care

 

I'm Not Recruiter Of Islam Just Giving Examples Like Others I'm Sorry If any one Think i Dishearten Him Good Luck Guys:D And Good Night:D

 

 

Edited by Kanja

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Johnny-Tightlips

With all Respect, a respect every-religeon, where i live it is not so much the people that hate muslims, But it's the fact that a miracle or explanations are right in front of them, they still don't beleive.

 

My R.S. teacher is fascinated by Islam, yet she doesn't become muslim because she doesn't want to beleive. As you can see hough, in the news, Internet e.t.c.

 

Islam is the fastest growing religeon in the world itself, and don't tell me this is to do with mass breeding, 20,000 americans convert each year, most of them being women (Yes women!) and then people say Islam abuses women?

 

Allah gave women and men different purposes in life.

 

If any Islam will dominate the world Inshallah, without force, without terrorism, but because of people's free will, Allahu-akbar.

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Vido Corleone

The most ironic thing about the debate between creationism and evolution is that there is no definitive proof for either. Both require a leap of faith.

 

I personally look at the evidence of evolution and tend to accept it because a lot more thought has been put into the theory of evolution than into the concept of creationism.

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Ad Rem

Dear Kanja,

 

It is said that when you resort to personal insults in a debate, you have lost. Your outlook's not too good on that. Luckily, since I'm such a nice person, I'm willing to overlook half of your reply and try to counter your fine arguments.

 

 

I Chellenge That Islam Satisfy Science and Islam Told 1400 years before Science that Earth Round about Sun and Sun is also Orbiting i Chellange Find any Scientific Error in Quaran.

1400 years before science? You make it sound like science came about a few years ago. It's been around for ages. Anyway. That example you gave is not only unimpressive but illogical as well. Just take a look here. As the site states, many cultures knew about celestial orbits way before Islam came about, so that revelation is hardly impressive. In addition to that, the verses are so flawed that it wouldn't be a big deal even if they were the first ones to mention it. Regarding scientific errors, here is an article about another converters' favorite among Muslims, the development of the human embryo. Not quite as amazing as one might have hoped.

 

 

 

Back On Topic: Are You all Mindless or have No Brain Don't make me laugh saying that there is No Creator Of This Universe  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH How can this Whole Universe have No Creator i'm The Student Of Space Engineering i know and i believe that Allah Almighty Created this Universe. And These are My Quotation Which I say To Every One " When a Man Think about Universe Them How can't he Think about Creator and How can't He Think About Creator's Greatness Have they No Brains"(KANJA)

 

Also When you see a Wonderful Thing You say wow Cool Who made it? and You Are saying that this Universe has no Creator Good hahahahahahahahaha When Every Thing has a Creator Then Why Not This Universe Only For Bcuz you Don't Like Muslims and wanna Wrong Them in any where

How do you know that God created the universe? I also love that old, recycled statement, "everything has a creator". Then who created god?????????? That is some fine self-contradicting you got there, buddy. "You don't like Muslims." Awesome, you act like a martyr to enforce your self-delusions. Conspiracy theorists do that. Just so you know, I don't hate Muslims any more than any other religious people. What comes to this part,

 

 

if You say that You are Built From A Clot of Blood and God Didn't created You then I Know a lot of Person Who has married 40 years and still has no child Why whether they are Still Contacting to Doctors why Bcuz a man has No Power On this It is upon God.

 

it's upon the fertility of the couple, Mr. Scientist.

 

 

 

So, let's see what Johnny-Tightlips has to say.

 

 

But it's the fact that a miracle or explanations are right in front of them, they still don't beleive.

Could you give some examples of these so called miracles. That'd be great, thanks.

 

 

Islam is the fastest growing religeon in the world itself, and don't tell me this is to do with mass breeding, 20,000 americans convert each year

This has very little do with, well, anything. How does this prove creation, which this topic is about?

 

 

If any Islam will dominate the world Inshallah, without force, without terrorism, but because of people's free will, Allahu-akbar.

Is God all-knowing? Did God create everything? If your answer is yes, how can you claim we have free will, since it's evident that God has created the future, thus predetermining our lives?

 

Not very good arguments, you guys.

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Johnny-Tightlips

 

 

 

 

 

 

But it's the fact that a miracle or explanations are right in front of them, they still don't beleive.

Could you give some examples of these so called miracles. That'd be great, thanks.

 

 

Islam is the fastest growing religeon in the world itself, and don't tell me this is to do with mass breeding, 20,000 americans convert each year

This has very little do with, well, anything. How does this prove creation, which this topic is about?

 

 

If any Islam will dominate the world Inshallah, without force, without terrorism, but because of people's free will, Allahu-akbar.

Is God all-knowing? Did God create everything? If your answer is yes, how can you claim we have free will, since it's evident that God has created the future, thus predetermining our lives?

 

Not very good arguments, you guys.

He gives us free will so, so that on the day of judgment you have no excuse. you may say Allah you should have given me a chance i may have passed the test.

 

Its called voaction,it's whats strives you, like your dream, for e.g. what do you want to do when your older, i'm not too sure of this myself but it's where God chooses a path that suits you. He trys to guide you. Allah create us though he knew our future.

you know you are very lucky to be a man as you can express every think

you must be somehow good that is why he choosed you to move on the path he made .

god may be knowing you future but you can change it

 

 

Ok, Modern miracles, The baby in Russia that had Islamic markings on it's leg, it was all over the news, you can do further research if you wish.

 

Here was a "Prediction" In the holy quran aswell, A message from Allah to Gabriel to Muhhamed the prophet. RELATIVITY ( THE SPEED OF LIGHT 299,792.458 km/s), Ok so i'm guessing people new this aswell, or this was a very detailed and large guess? no.

 

Infact here are a whole load of miracles from the quran, some may seem obviouse than others, take a look in further research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ad Rem
He gives us free will so, so that on the day of judgment you have no excuse. you may say Allah you should have given me a chance i may have passed the test.

 

Its called voaction,it's whats strives you, like your dream, for e.g. what do you want to do when your older, i'm not too sure of this myself but it's where God chooses a path that suits you. He trys to guide you. Allah create us though he knew our future.

you know you are very lucky to be a man as you can express every think

you must be somehow good that is why he choosed you to move on the path he made .

god may be knowing you future but you can change it

If you can change your future, that would mean God isn't all-knowing. Which one is it?

 

 

 

Ok, Modern miracles, The baby in Russia that had Islamic markings on it's leg, it was all over the news, you can do further research if you wish.

That can very easily be just another hoax. Until you show me a video of the markings appearing by themselves, I'm not buying it.

 

 

Here was a "Prediction" In the holy quran aswell, A message from Allah to Gabriel to Muhhamed the prophet. RELATIVITY ( THE SPEED OF LIGHT 299,792.458 km/s), Ok so i'm guessing people new this aswell, or this was a very detailed and large guess? no.

Could you point me to the verse that states the speed of light is 299,792,458 km/s?

 

 

Infact here are a whole load of miracles from the quran, some may seem obviouse than others, take a look in further research.

 

Where?

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Johnny-Tightlips
He gives us free will so, so that on the day of judgment you have no excuse. you may say Allah you should have given me a chance i may have passed the test.

 

Its called voaction,it's whats strives you, like your dream, for e.g. what do you want to do when your older, i'm not too sure of this myself but it's where God chooses a path that suits you. He trys to guide you. Allah create us though he knew our future.

you know you are very lucky to be a man as you can express every think

you must be somehow good that is why he choosed you to move on the path he made .

god may be knowing you future but you can change it

If you can change your future, that would mean God isn't all-knowing. Which one is it?

 

 

 

Ok, Modern miracles, The baby in Russia that had Islamic markings on it's leg, it was all over the news, you can do further research if you wish.

That can very easily be just another hoax. Until you show me a video of the markings appearing by themselves, I'm not buying it.

 

 

Here was a "Prediction" In the holy quran aswell, A message from Allah to Gabriel to Muhhamed the prophet. RELATIVITY ( THE SPEED OF LIGHT 299,792.458 km/s), Ok so i'm guessing people new this aswell, or this was a very detailed and large guess? no.

Could you point me to the verse that states the speed of light is 299,792,458 km/s?

 

 

Infact here are a whole load of miracles from the quran, some may seem obviouse than others, take a look in further research.

 

Where?

God is all-knowing, he does know wha you do, but you still can chage it, it doesn't mean he can't know that you changed your future or path, he still knows that you have.

 

secondly the baby markings, heres a link. http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/10/22/rus...or-skin-disease

 

It could be a hoax or a real miracle. But anyways ali's parents were not religeouse until that happened.

 

 

The speed of light, it's hard to find something clear, but it is all written down in the quran, i cannot answere all the questions you throw at me, But the quran can, every question i've asked the imam, he has answrred well, all because it is all safe in the quran.

 

 

Oh sorry i lost the list of miracles, it is better if you do the research about them, you'll understand more, or if theres a mosque near you ask the imam, im sure he wont mind if your an atheist, he teach you, and explain to you mabey.

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Ad Rem

 

God is all-knowing, he does know wha you do, but you still can chage it, it doesn't mean he can't know that you changed your future or path, he still knows that you have.

As the creator of everything, God created that path. You have as much free will as a movie character. No way around it. Even God doesn't have free will, he's more like an automated machine if he knows all of his future actions.

 

 

 

It could be a hoax or a real miracle. But anyways ali's parents were not religeouse until that happened.

Exactly. What a great way to gain fame and money, first make markings on your son and then claim to have converted to Islam to make it seem legit.

 

 

The speed of light, it's hard to find something clear, but it is all written down in the quran, i cannot answere all the questions you throw at me, But the quran can, every question i've asked the imam, he has answrred well, all because it is all safe in the quran.

I found two verses about angels, with some high-flying interpretations. Seriously, if these books are the word of God, why must they be written like riddles?

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Kanja

 

Dear Kanja,

 

It is said that when you resort to personal insults in a debate, you have lost. Your outlook's not too good on that. Luckily, since I'm such a nice person, I'm willing to overlook half of your reply and try to counter your fine arguments.

 

 

I Chellenge That Islam Satisfy Science and Islam Told 1400 years before Science that Earth Round about Sun and Sun is also Orbiting i Chellange Find any Scientific Error in Quaran.

1400 years before science? You make it sound like science came about a few years ago. It's been around for ages. Anyway. That example you gave is not only unimpressive but illogical as well. Just take a look here. As the site states, many cultures knew about celestial orbits way before Islam came about, so that revelation is hardly impressive. In addition to that, the verses are so flawed that it wouldn't be a big deal even if they were the first ones to mention it. Regarding scientific errors, here is an article about another converters' favorite among Muslims, the development of the human embryo. Not quite as amazing as one might have hoped.

 

 

 

Back On Topic: Are You all Mindless or have No Brain Don't make me laugh saying that there is No Creator Of This Universe  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH How can this Whole Universe have No Creator i'm The Student Of Space Engineering i know and i believe that Allah Almighty Created this Universe. And These are My Quotation Which I say To Every One " When a Man Think about Universe Them How can't he Think about Creator and How can't He Think About Creator's Greatness Have they No Brains"(KANJA)

 

Also When you see a Wonderful Thing You say wow Cool Who made it? and You Are saying that this Universe has no Creator Good hahahahahahahahaha When Every Thing has a Creator Then Why Not This Universe Only For Bcuz you Don't Like Muslims and wanna Wrong Them in any where

How do you know that God created the universe? I also love that old, recycled statement, "everything has a creator". Then who created god?????????? That is some fine self-contradicting you got there, buddy. "You don't like Muslims." Awesome, you act like a martyr to enforce your self-delusions. Conspiracy theorists do that. Just so you know, I don't hate Muslims any more than any other religious people. What comes to this part,

 

 

if You say that You are Built From A Clot of Blood and God Didn't created You then I Know a lot of Person Who has married 40 years and still has no child Why whether they are Still Contacting to Doctors why Bcuz a man has No Power On this It is upon God.

 

it's upon the fertility of the couple, Mr. Scientist.

 

 

 

So, let's see what Johnny-Tightlips has to say.

 

 

But it's the fact that a miracle or explanations are right in front of them, they still don't beleive.

Could you give some examples of these so called miracles. That'd be great, thanks.

 

 

Islam is the fastest growing religeon in the world itself, and don't tell me this is to do with mass breeding, 20,000 americans convert each year

This has very little do with, well, anything. How does this prove creation, which this topic is about?

 

 

If any Islam will dominate the world Inshallah, without force, without terrorism, but because of people's free will, Allahu-akbar.

Is God all-knowing? Did God create everything? If your answer is yes, how can you claim we have free will, since it's evident that God has created the future, thus predetermining our lives?

 

Not very good arguments, you guys.

lol Man Links which You Given are Written By a Stupid Doctor Who Don't Know any Thing ok I tell You Every Things Which Quran Stats and Challenge on This Topic Look!

 

 

1)ASTRONOMY

 

CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:

‘THE BIG BANG’

 

The creation of the universe is explained byastrophysicists as a widely accepted phenomenon,popularly known as ‘The Big Bang’. It is supportedby observational and experimental data gathered by

astronomers and astrophysicists for decades.According to ‘The Big Bang’, the whole universe wasinitially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon,etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the probability of it happening by ‘chance’ is nil.

The Qur’an contains the following verse regardingthe origin of the universe:

 

“Do not the Unbelievers see

that the heavens and the earth

were joined together (as one

unit of Creation), before

We clove them asunder?”

[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

 

The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book,which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

 

INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE

CREATION OF GALAXIES

 

 

Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the universe were formed, celestial matter was initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short,huge gaseous matter or clouds were present

before the formation of the galaxies. To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas. The following Qur’anic verse refers to this state of the universe by the word

dukhaan which means smoke.

 

“Moreover, He Comprehended

in His design the sky,

and it had been (as) smoke:

He said to it and to the earth:

‘Come ye together,

willingly or unwillingly.’

They said: ‘We do come (together),

in willing obedience.’”

[Al-Qur’an 41:11]

 

Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him)1. What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

 

SHAPE OF THE EARTH IS SPHERICAL

 

In early times, people believed that the earth was flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, for fear of falling off the edge! Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the

earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597.Consider the following Qur’anic verse regarding the alternation of day and night:

 

“Seest thou not that Allah

merges Night into Day

and He merges Day into Night?”

[Al-Qur’an 31:29]

 

Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night.

The following verse also alludes to the spherical shape of the earth:

 

“He created the heavens and

the earth in true (proportions):

He makes the Night overlap the Day,

and the Day

overlap the Night.”

[Al-Qur’an 39:5]

 

The Arabic word used here is Kawwara meaning‘to overlap’ or ‘to coil’– the way a turban is wound around the head. The overlapping or coiling of the day and night can only take place if the earth is

spherical.The earth is not exactly round like a ball, but

geo-spherical, i.e. it is flattened at the poles. The following verse contains a description of the earth’s shape:

 

“And the earth, moreover,

hath He made egg shaped.”

[Al-Qur’an 79:30]

 

The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.

MOONLIGHT IS REFLECTED LIGHT It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light. Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’an 1,400 years ago in the following verse:

 

“Blessed is He Who made

Constellations in the skies,

and placed therein a Lamp

and a Moon giving light.”

[Al-Qur’an 25:61]

 

The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams.It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions

are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon which does not give off light by itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light

of the sun. Not once in the Qur’an, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya nor the sun as noor or muneer. This implies that the Qur’an recognizes the difference between the nature of

sunlight and moonlight.The following verses relate to the nature of light from the sun and the moon:

 

“It is He who made the sun

to be a shining glory

and the moon to be a light

(of beauty).”

[Al-Qur’an 10:5]

 

“See ye not

how Allah has created

the seven heavens

one above another,

“And made the moon

a light in their midst,

and made the sun

as a (Glorious) Lamp?”

[Al-Qur’an 71:15-16]

 

The Glorious Qur'an and modern science, are thus in perfect agreement about the differences in the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

 

oh i'm Tired If You aren't Confirmed Yet I can Give You PHYSICS Bio and Chemistry Also Which Quran Specifyand Satisfy Modern Science. Good Night i'm Really Tired

Edited by Kanja

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Johnny-Tightlips
God is all-knowing, he does know wha you do, but you still can chage it, it doesn't mean he can't know that you changed your future or path, he still knows that you have.

As the creator of everything, God created that path. You have as much free will as a movie character. No way around it. Even God doesn't have free will, he's more like an automated machine if he knows all of his future actions.

 

 

 

It could be a hoax or a real miracle. But anyways ali's parents were not religeouse until that happened.

Exactly. What a great way to gain fame and money, first make markings on your son and then claim to have converted to Islam to make it seem legit.

 

 

The speed of light, it's hard to find something clear, but it is all written down in the quran, i cannot answere all the questions you throw at me, But the quran can, every question i've asked the imam, he has answrred well, all because it is all safe in the quran.

I found two verses about angels, with some high-flying interpretations. Seriously, if these books are the word of God, why must they be written like riddles?

Ok, Number one we are both off topic here, i know you were talking about creation, but the thing you asked was if god was all-knowing, which i have clearly answered and you havent given feedback on that, the creator, meaning he created us, and he is all knowig as i have explained above.

 

Listen, there is no proof that this is a hoax or a miracle, ok, but a miracle is something that cannot be explained by humans, otherwise it is not a miracle. Thats what people find hard to understand, they always want proof proof proof! Faith is the answere, ether way, you see i am trying not to be biased.

 

Ok, secondly you ask me, yes the quran is written like poetry almost, and is very easy for us to understand, you might find some verses dont make sense, or a bit poetic, but remember it is a translation into english, if you really want to learn the quran properlly and all it's real deep meanings, learning arabic is a good way, which i know all of us wont do, you dont have to, but there are alot of mis-interpretations when translated into other languages.

 

For e.g the 42 virgins thing, the writting doesn't say virgins at all, it is infact telling us about a kind of fruit, and how the after-life is alot nicer compared to the one thus is living now.

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Sixdust

Quoting religious scripture won't prove anything. For every scripture you quote, someone can quote another cult or religion, to counter your statement. Remember that science is based on the idea of forming a hypothesis, gathering data, and coming to a conclusion as to whether or not the data gathered supports your conclusion. Then it is up to the scientific community to test the procedures of the experiment to verify whether the same conclusion occurs. Faith is just that, a belief without scientific evidence. Saying things like "I believe" does not prove a point.

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Ad Rem

 

CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:

‘THE BIG BANG’

 

The Qur’an contains the following verse regardingthe origin of the universe:

 

“Do not the Unbelievers see

that the heavens and the earth

were joined together (as one

unit of Creation), before

We clove them asunder?”

[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

That is incredibly vague. Many cultures had creation stories where the skies and earth were separated by a god.

 

 

“Moreover, He Comprehended

in His design the sky,

and it (the sky) had been (as) smoke:

He said to it and to the earth:

‘Come ye together,

willingly or unwillingly.’

They said: ‘We do come (together),

in willing obedience.’”

[Al-Qur’an 41:11]

The smoke part only refers to the sky. The Earth was already done, as 41:10 tells us:

 

 

41:10- He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

As we can see, Allah had already created the Earth. How could 41:11 refer to the early stages of the universe when Allah already had created the Earth? All the verse says is that the sky is like smoke and that He then makes the sky and the Earth come together. Don't try to take things out of context.

 

 

 

In early times, people believed that the earth was flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, for fear of falling off the edge! Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the

earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597.

See, this is a lie. It was known almost three thousand years ago, as you can see. It is also up for debate whether or not the Quran really talks about a round Earth. For example,

 

 

“And the earth, moreover,

hath He made egg shaped.”

[Al-Qur’an 79:30]

 

The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg.

this is not what I found. Apparently, dahaha means flat:

 

 

7. Dahaha: means flat.

This word currently attracts the interest of the so-called miracle Islamic scientists. All Arabic dictionaries agreed that the word means spread out, flattened or extended. This term is frequently used to refer to the practice of the ostrich in preparing and flattening the ground to lay its eggs. The very desperate so-called miracle Islamic scientists picked this association with eggs and claimed the word could also mean an egg shaped thing! Those miracle scientists rely on the fact that most Arabs are not familiar with this old word and none of them will take the trouble to open a dictionary to find out the actual meaning. These Islamic scientists deliberately take advantage of the confusion of ordinary Arabs between the flattened bed of the bird’s nest and its contents of eggs.

 

Q. 79:27-30 …and the earth - after that He (Dahaha) spread it out...

Then there are these other six examples:

 

 

1. Sutehat: If you want to describe something as flat in Arabic then there is no better way than using this word. Sateh means flat, sutehat means flattened out.

Q. 88:20 Nor even how the earth has been (sutehat) flattened out?

 

2. Bisata: also means flat. The Arabic word bisata means a flat sheet or a carpet.

Q. 71: 19 And God has laid the earth for you as a (bisata) carpet

 

3. Madda: means stretched out until the object becomes flat, like what happens when you take a ball of dough and stretch it until it becomes flat.

 

Q. 13:3 And He it is who hath (Madda) outstretched the earth, and placed on it the firm mountains

 

Q. 15:19 And the earth have WE (Madadnaha, from madda) spread out

 

Q. 50:6-7 What, have they not beheld heaven above them, how we have built it, and decked it out fair, and it has no cracks? And the earth -- We (Madadnaha) stretched it forth…

 

4. Firasha: means a mattress, ‘ as flat as a mattress’.

Q. 2:22 Who made the earth a (Firasha) bed for you, and the heaven a roof

Q. 51:48 And the earth we (Farashnaha, from firasha) have spread out, and how excellently do we spread it out!

 

 

5. Mahada: means a bed, which is flat. In Arabic you can describe something flat by comparing it to a bed.

 

Q. 20:53 .. the One who has laid out the earth as a (Mahdan) carpet for you

Q. 43:10 …has made for you the earth (Mahdan) like a carpet spread out

Q. 78:6 Have We not made the earth as a (Mihada) bed, And the mountains as pegs

 

6. Tahaha: means flattened.

Q. 91:5-6 By the heaven and that which built it and by the earth and that which (Tahaha) extended it!

I'm not too convinced.

 

 

 

 

The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams.It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions

are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon which does not give off light by itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light

of the sun.

This had been known since 600 BC in Ancient Greece. Arabia wasn't isolated from the rest of the world, so there is no reason why this information couldn't have reached the Middle East under the 1200-year period between the discovery and the birth of Islam.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, Number one we are both off topic here, i know you were talking about creation, but the thing you asked was if god was all-knowing, which i have clearly answered and you havent given feedback on that, the creator, meaning he created us, and he is all knowig as i have explained above.

Alright, so we don't have free will then.

 

 

Thats what people find hard to understand, they always want proof proof proof! Faith is the answere

Yeah, I'd rather have proof before I believe it really happened. It's not even hard to get, just film the baby when the markings are said to appear. If it works, I'll believe it. Until then, I won't.

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Playstation_Loyalist

First of all, are we debating about what religion's Creation theory is more factual than the other? No, so get off of it.

 

There's just one big question that will slap the face of those who believe in Creation:

 

Where did "God" come from?

 

Since there's not even a PROBABLE answer, we can say that Creation is a false theory. Are there any evidences of the Creation besides the Holy Bible? None? Because the bible is just a big book full of religious falsifications and mockeries.

 

Evolution has more evidences, though. Refer to Wikipedia, or better, to more reliable sources: BOOKS.

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Vido Corleone
Where did "God" come from?

Super God, duh

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Johnny-Tightlips

 

CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE:

‘THE BIG BANG’

 

The Qur’an contains the following verse regardingthe origin of the universe:

 

“Do not the Unbelievers see

that the heavens and the earth

were joined together (as one

unit of Creation), before

We clove them asunder?”

[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

That is incredibly vague. Many cultures had creation stories where the skies and earth were separated by a god.

 

“Moreover, He Comprehended

in His design the sky,

and it (the sky) had been (as) smoke:

He said to it and to the earth:

‘Come ye together,

willingly or unwillingly.’

They said: ‘We do come (together),

in willing obedience.’”

[Al-Qur’an 41:11]

The smoke part only refers to the sky. The Earth was already done, as 41:10 tells us:

 

41:10- He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

As we can see, Allah had already created the Earth. How could 41:11 refer to the early stages of the universe when Allah already had created the Earth? All the verse says is that the sky is like smoke and that He then makes the sky and the Earth come together. Don't try to take things out of context.

 

 

In early times, people believed that the earth was flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, for fear of falling off the edge! Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the

earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597.

See, this is a lie. It was known almost three thousand years ago, as you can see. It is also up for debate whether or not the Quran really talks about a round Earth. For example,

 

“And the earth, moreover,

hath He made egg shaped.”

[Al-Qur’an 79:30]

 

The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa1 which means an ostrich-egg.

this is not what I found. Apparently, dahaha means flat:

 

7. Dahaha: means flat.

This word currently attracts the interest of the so-called miracle Islamic scientists. All Arabic dictionaries agreed that the word means spread out, flattened or extended. This term is frequently used to refer to the practice of the ostrich in preparing and flattening the ground to lay its eggs. The very desperate so-called miracle Islamic scientists picked this association with eggs and claimed the word could also mean an egg shaped thing! Those miracle scientists rely on the fact that most Arabs are not familiar with this old word and none of them will take the trouble to open a dictionary to find out the actual meaning. These Islamic scientists deliberately take advantage of the confusion of ordinary Arabs between the flattened bed of the bird’s nest and its contents of eggs.

 

Q. 79:27-30 …and the earth - after that He (Dahaha) spread it out...

Then there are these other six examples:

 

1. Sutehat: If you want to describe something as flat in Arabic then there is no better way than using this word. Sateh means flat, sutehat means flattened out.

Q. 88:20 Nor even how the earth has been (sutehat) flattened out?

 

2. Bisata: also means flat. The Arabic word bisata means a flat sheet or a carpet.

Q. 71: 19 And God has laid the earth for you as a (bisata) carpet

 

3. Madda: means stretched out until the object becomes flat, like what happens when you take a ball of dough and stretch it until it becomes flat.

 

Q. 13:3 And He it is who hath (Madda) outstretched the earth, and placed on it the firm mountains

 

Q. 15:19 And the earth have WE (Madadnaha, from madda) spread out

 

Q. 50:6-7 What, have they not beheld heaven above them, how we have built it, and decked it out fair, and it has no cracks? And the earth -- We (Madadnaha) stretched it forth…

 

4. Firasha: means a mattress, ‘ as flat as a mattress’.

Q. 2:22 Who made the earth a (Firasha) bed for you, and the heaven a roof

Q. 51:48 And the earth we (Farashnaha, from firasha) have spread out, and how excellently do we spread it out!

 

 

5. Mahada: means a bed, which is flat. In Arabic you can describe something flat by comparing it to a bed.

 

Q. 20:53 .. the One who has laid out the earth as a (Mahdan) carpet for you

Q. 43:10 …has made for you the earth (Mahdan) like a carpet spread out

Q. 78:6 Have We not made the earth as a (Mihada) bed, And the mountains as pegs

 

6. Tahaha: means flattened.

Q. 91:5-6 By the heaven and that which built it and by the earth and that which (Tahaha) extended it!

I'm not too convinced.

 

 

 

The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams.It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions

are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon which does not give off light by itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light

of the sun.

This had been known since 600 BC in Ancient Greece. Arabia wasn't isolated from the rest of the world, so there is no reason why this information couldn't have reached the Middle East under the 1200-year period between the discovery and the birth of Islam.

 

 

 

 

Ok, Number one we are both off topic here, i know you were talking about creation, but the thing you asked was if god was all-knowing, which i have clearly answered and you havent given feedback on that, the creator, meaning he created us, and he is all knowig as i have explained above.

Alright, so we don't have free will then.

 

Thats what people find hard to understand, they always want proof proof proof! Faith is the answere

Yeah, I'd rather have proof before I believe it really happened. It's not even hard to get, just film the baby when the markings are said to appear. If it works, I'll believe it. Until then, I won't.

 

 

Me:

Like i have said already you are reading an english translation of the quran, Many translations are by far wrong, in which te imam who can speak arabic tell us what it's true meaning is, the verse that sais the world is flat, My friend from Jordon, knows as many others do, it is a mis-interpretation of it's true meaning, thats why prayers are in arabic, because the quran was reveild in the arabic language, nd it's true meaning is inside that languge, like i said above the 72 virgins thing or whatever...that not what it sais..its completly different, just badly translated. It might just be even propaganda.

 

Edit: i Also beleive you said that other people had thought of the verse..

 

“Do not the Unbelievers see

that the heavens and the earth

were joined together (as one

unit of Creation), before

We clove them asunder?”

[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

That is incredibly vague. Many cultures had creation stories where the skies and earth were separated by a god.

 

So you seem to think that the Heavens are the skies...my friend yet again another bad english translation, the word heavens, really mean layers, makes more sense now.Not like other cultures now is it? You also say other cultures had this idea, isn't this Idea also abit like the Scientific Big Bang theory?

 

Remember there is programs about this and proof that Muhammad the prophet could not read or write, until he reveiled the quran when the angel gabriel gave the words to him in mount hira..Copied from other religeons, I dont think so.

 

Like i also said before, me explaining Islam? i'm a recent convert and not very wide knowledged of this religeon yet, thats why you shoudn't seek answeres off me, but an Imam, who knows the quran, who truly understands.

Edited by Johnny-Tightlips

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nutboy

Evolution is how creationism is why.

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Ari Gold
Evolution is how creationism is why.

They're two seperate things though. There's no correlation between the two.

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Lollers77
Where did "God" come from?

Super God, duh

LOL!

 

My first post...smile.gif

 

Actually, that was unexpected. The fact that no one can tell who created God can point out something more powerful than Him.

 

If that's so, then why just can't "he" create us when he can create "God"?

 

I'm an atheist, so I really don't believe in such god or any religious belief, but I respect them.

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Leftcoast

I have to say to Kanja that not all Americans are so ignorant to introduce these prejudices to islam. I have several friends of the Islamic faith and they are great people who do not embody the negative characteristics that Fox news is trying get Americans to believe.

 

 

1400 years before science? You make it sound like science came about a few years ago. It's been around for ages. Anyway. That example you gave is not only unimpressive but illogical as well. Just take a look here. As the site states, many cultures knew about celestial orbits way before Islam came about, so that revelation is hardly impressive. In addition to that, the verses are so flawed that it wouldn't be a big deal even if they were the first ones to mention it. Regarding scientific errors, here is an article about another converters' favorite among Muslims, the development of the human embryo. Not quite as amazing as one might have hoped.

 

Although there was much I could say on both sides about the argument that took place after this comment, I want to point out that the Arabic culture (pretty much 100% muslim at this time) far exceeded the scientific knowledge of Europe after the fall of the Roman empire. We (Europeans) had almost completely reduced ourselves to superstition while the Vatican for all intents and purposes banned science. At the same time, many aspects of science flourished in the Arabic culture.

 

I remember being taught in school that "everyone" thought the world was flat during the middle ages. Later when I had read a lot more, I realized that only a few ignorant places in Europe thought the world was flat and that many, many other cultures knew the world was round. Ah, the lies my teachers told me.........

 

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taranchia

Hi, I'm new, and I just wanted to expound on creationism. Also, when I use the word creationism, I also mean intelligent design.

 

First of all, Christians can believe in God and evolution, and be 100% content in their compatibility. If anyone states that evolution disproves god, or that you can't be a christian and believe in evolution, just know...they are full of it...

 

Creationism is full of logical holes and assumptions based on ideological grounds...in fact, I believe it puts God in a box, a box which he does not belong. It limits God to an interpretation not based in reality. Why is it not based in reality? Because the scientific data does not support it. Science itself allows the experiment to dictate the results. But creationists turn this on its head. They know the answer. They are simply trying to make the experiment fit into their preconceived view of reality. That is not science. And if you believe in God, you should also believe that science is the pursuit of knowing the mind of God.

 

Creationism relies on a false dichotemy. The creationists I have seen (i.e. Ken Ham, etc) main goal is not to prove creationism. Their main goal is disprove evolution, and the logic is, "If we disprove evolution, then creationism must be right." Unfortunately for them, disproving evolution does not prove creationism, especially given the fact that the proposition, "God created the universe", is a completely unprovable proposition within the realm of science. So to say creationism is science is a blatant oxymoron because "God" cannot be empirically studied. Intelligent design included.

 

Evolution says nothing about god or the existence god. If anything, if you are a Christian, you should be amazed at the fact of evolution, biological and cosmic. That God, in his logic, created a universe which evolves according to physical laws, and this evolution, after 13.7 billion years, resulted in you. It took 13.7 billion years of evolution for you to exist, and the fact that you even exist, that all the events during this insurmountable amount of time, resulted in your birth, is simply amazing. Evolution is a miracle and to deny it, in my opinion, is to deny reality. It is a fact, and if God created this universe, and us, it was done by evolution.

 

The Bible is full of wisdom, history, and theology. But it is NOT a scientific document. Let me repeat that. THE BIBLE IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC DOCUMENT. There is a real problem with creationist "science" because it is based on a non-scientific document and assumed to be the answer to all scientific questions of our origins.

 

One of creationists main focuses are human evolution. They just cannot believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors, or single-celled organisms. A good one I've heard while in church was, "They want us to believe we evolved from pond scum! Pond scum." Well, perhaps not "pond scum", but we are essentially made out of dirt. Even the bible says (Gen 2:7), "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." 13.7 billion years condensed into one sentence! Amazing! All living things are made of the same carbon based chemical concoction. Yes, we are made of the same stuff as trees, fish, and yes, apes. That is not to say we are a tree or fish or an ape (though we are in the same super-family).

 

So to conclude. Evolution is a fact. If you are a Christian and questioning whether you can believe in God and evolution, you can! Wonder in amazement that an almost infinite number of events over a incomprehensible amount of time (13.7 billion years), led to your birth, your life, both of which, should have statistically never happened! Reflect on that.

 

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808

Creationism stinks. It's not even a theory IMHO. Just looking at the Genesis you can see a big pile of BS: God creates man and woman, he puts that tree there and allows that evil snake to mislead the innocent newly created humans. Where was God at that time? And since Adam and Eve didn't know what Good and Bad is how the f*ck would they know to not to trust a talking snake. Curiosity is in the human nature. God could have got over it.

 

So if God is all pissed off on us since so many disasters happen, why the f*ck bother praying to him?

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ZombieFrogger

A Mix Between Creationism and Evolution.

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Breaking Bohan

They aren't really meant to be compared.

 

One is a religious belief, and one is a scientific theory. It doesn't have to believe one or the other, someone can hold both beliefs.

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LordDastardly

 

"Believe" in evolution?

 

Evolution is fact.

Yes. lol.gif

 

I am I strong believer in Evolution not Creationism - but does it matter what we believe because we will die whether we a religious or not.

 

God, you wanna strike me down now for such blasp...

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ZombieFrogger

When the day comes when "god" turns up ill be a total 100% Believer but im about 60%

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Ari Gold

Well, not that this is entirely relevant but I feel this fits in with the conversation at hand...

 

I don't see religion as defining what created the earth. I see religion more as a moral guide for when I'm in grief or facing personal trouble, and as providing a framework as to how I should behave. To be honest, I don't believe that God created the earth in 7 days, and to be frank I don't even know whether there is a God above us, or whether there isn't. I don't think it can be proven.

 

Needless to say, this doesn't mean that I'm an Atheist. Although I don't live by the ten commandments, and even though I'm bound to commit one sin at any given moment (at the moment I'm devouring into some tasty ice cream, which can fall under 'gluttony' tounge.gif), I do generally abide my life and behave in a way dictated by how my parents have raised me, which reflect generally Christian values. My parents aren't even strict Christians, but with my family coming from a country where 'rational' religious belief is high, it's simply a cultural thing to be baptised as a Christian, rather than a religious.

 

Basically, that means I'm a Christian but with heavy Agnostic leanings. But I'm not that keen nor comfortable to be arguing about religion as I see it as very personal, so basically everyone's entitled to believe in what they want (this is to prevent any nitpickers to try and start an Atheist vs. Christian debate icon14.gif).

 

So, in essence, the argument isn't really with religion; it's with which story you believe in (even though I don't consider one to be a 'story', merely fact).

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808
When the day comes when "god" turns up ill be a total 100% Believer but im about 60%

So you're trying to mislead god!? He will punish you for that lol. I would say it is safe not to believe in god since he hasn't given us enough evidence for his existence and he is an omniscient being after all, he had it coming.

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Weirdo.

I'm an Atheist and proud of it.

 

Now that I've split some hairs, you can probably guess the most likely answer I will choose.

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dog_day_sunrise

 

I'm an Atheist and proud of it.

 

Now that I've split some hairs, you can probably guess the most likely answer I will choose.

See above.

 

Evolution is a theory with a significant amount of evidence supporting it. Creationism is a myth with literally no evidence supporting it.

 

Personally I think that anyone who believes that religion (of any kind) is anything more than a story intended to portray a certain moral and social belief is deluding themselves. Religion is a construct of society, and its only real purpose is to give its followers a moral code to live their lives by- if such a thing is even necessary. For example, the entirety of the Ten Commandments is essentially just a set of rules that, if followed, aid the furthering of the species circa 5000 BC. if you ignore the false idols bits and other generally ideological rubbish, it's just a list of things that's it best to avoid doing to produce the largest number of "breeding pairs" of humans in order to maximise the number of offspring and ergo further the species.

 

Human imagination is all that has turned religion into more than a moral code, and in that sense creationism is no more than just a fairy story. Similarly, the belief in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent higher power is akin to believing in unicorns or dragons.

Edited by dog_day_sunrise

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