Why The Hate?

[Versityle]

I'm tired of people thinking that a female can't star in a GTA game as the main protagonist, especially after the original GTA's option to play as a female and GTA IV's Multiplayer option to play as a female. People are saying that they can't picture a girl whose as strong as a man jacking vehicles and working for mob bosses and criminals... I disagree. I've even come up with something that just could work.

 

Long read ahead if you're interested:

 

The Character:

 

Name: Abigail (Abby) Ancellino

Age: 28

Nationality: Italian/Spanish

Residence: San Andreas (Maybe just San Fierro, the desert and Las Venturas if it can't all fit)

Resume: Travelled the world, knows six languages, trained in the Navy, Taikwando, Ninjitsu, Karate and Kung Fu.

Appearence: 5'8, 130lbs, long brunette hair, strong lean build

Attire: Casual (T-Shirt, Jeans)

Family: Daughter of legendary mobster, Frankie Ancellino and Cecilia Ancellino, and younger sister to Antonio Ancellino.

History: (NOT PROPERLY DEVELOPED, BEAR WITH ME) Born and raised in Liberty City under her rich, mob family. After tragic murder of her mother, she and Antonio were sent up North to Canada to train under a Chinese master of martial arts by Frankie in order for their saftey. After Antonio returned home at 18, Abby moved to Europe and eventually joined the Spanish Navy seeing how she didn't glamerize her father's methods of business. After leaving the Navy travelled throughout Russia, China, and Japan. Through desperation and blackmail, she fell under the work of extortion and assassination and discovered she had a real talent for it. Moved acrossed India and Africa and finally escaped to Colombia where she again fell into the same blackmail in order to survive. She finally moved back to the US after she was convinced by an old friend to finally settle down.

 

The Basic Story Arc (in a nutshell)

 

When an old friend convinces her to settle down in San Fierro and begin to live a legit life, old habits begin to spur as she has to face up against her friends' abusive boyfriend, crooked loan collectors, and Venturas mobsters after her brother attempts to start a Casino business. There's bound to be stuff in between all this such as Pimps and Feminists who can only trust a woman to carry their plan.

 

The Intro before the First Mission:

 

Passengers are on a moving train as they hear all sorts of grunting, moaning and banging sounds muffled through the bathroom stall. They all cringe at some of the sounds and can't concentrate on whatever it is they're doing. After a final 'bang' there is brief silence and Abby walks out with many eyes staring right at her as she closes the stall.

 

Abby: You do not wanna in there... (people still staring at her) ...trust me. (or something like that)

 

The games music and credits begin to roll over an establishing shot of the railway train passing through the countryside on a sunny afternoon. She passes by some of the people on board, possibly some conversations get started, don't know yet what dialogue there'll be but the cut-scene would need to linger in order for the credits to finish up as the train reaches the last stop in Fierro where Abby is meant to get off.

 

The train finally arrives and both her friends stand waiting nearby as she steps off with her suitcase. They greet each other and instantly begin to converse. The man friend brings up the whole relationship that his little sisters in (the main best friend) and how abusive he is. Of course the friend is tired of hearing her older brother's overprotected preaches. This then prompts Abby to say:

 

Abby: Well just on the ride here alone, I can certainly relate to having been harrassed to the last point... (or something like that)

 

It then cuts back to the bathroom stall Abby walked out of as a stewardess walks by. The moaning and groaning begin again as stewardess approaches the stall and bangs in open in a hurry. He discovers a middle-aged man in his underwear with a huge bruise on his head, tied to a rail by his belt, legs bound by his pants after it had be taken off and gagged by his own tie. The stewardess looks in shock as the train begins to depart.

 

The three converse some more and make their way to the car as Abby places her suitcase in the trunk and the three get in and mission proceeds from there.

 

 

Maybe a little extreme, but tell me this character isn't cut out to be a hired gun in a GTA series. She's well educated, has much experience and is trained well in martial art and Navy tactics. All the while she's still keeps a feminin element to her, as she's the average height and weight, maintains an average female voice, and can even get a little emotional under REALLY extreme measures. Mostly she's calm and collected but she is still all woman.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Versityle

[chngdman]

I just really, personally, think that a girl will not work. For the reasons you stated, mainly. A woman just could Not do all of that. There may be some butch-ass women out there that could have lived Niko Bellic's life, but... yea... they can't do that. And the missions you would have to do would be so gay. I mean just take yourself into your imagination for a minute and think "for a woman to replace carl johnson and niko bellic, tommy and claude, what would see have to do?" It wouldn't work, it just wouldn't work, a woman that can do that kind of stuff doesn't do it for long - she ends up in power telling GTA protagonist what to do.

 

A girl avatar in MP is a wholly different thing than a main character in a story who is female and jacking cars etc... that doesn't happen, women do not operate like that, and I have never in my life heard of a female that did anything like the jobs you do in GTA or the jacking etc - doesn't mean there were none, it just means they have never been talked about for the most part.

[Versityle]

 

I just really, personally, think that a girl will not work. For the reasons you stated, mainly. A woman just could Not do all of that. There may be some butch-ass women out there that could have lived Niko Bellic's life, but... yea... they can't do that. And the missions you would have to do would be so gay. I mean just take yourself into your imagination for a minute and think "for a woman to replace carl johnson and niko bellic, tommy and claude, what would see have to do?" It wouldn't work, it just wouldn't work, a woman that can do that kind of stuff doesn't do it for long - she ends up in power telling GTA protagonist what to do.

 

A girl avatar in MP is a wholly different thing than a main character in a story who is female and jacking cars etc... that doesn't happen, women do not operate like that, and I have never in my life heard of a female that did anything like the jobs you do in GTA or the jacking etc - doesn't mean there were none, it just means they have never been talked about for the most part.

How can you say that friend?

 

No doubt that in her travelling years she struggled as an immigrant woman. But this is what makes the character unique, not many women have gone through such a jammed packed life, especially one whose daugther of an infamous mob boss. It's not impossible for a woman to be protrayed like this and replace male characters. Let's look at other women who are protrayed as men's combat equals.

 

Xena - Xena Warrior Princess

Sydney Fox - Relic Hunter

Sydney Bristow - Alias (especially as she goes on missions and customizes her look)

Foxy Brown - Foxy Brown

Mary Shannon - In Plain Sight

Lara Croft - Tomb Raider

The Bride - Kill Bill

Charlie's Angles - Charlie's Angles

Max Guevera - Dark Angle

Buffy - Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Alice - Resident Evil

Nikita - La Femme Nikita

Barb Wire - Barb Wire

 

 

The list goes on and on. I would have put down Wonder Woman, but this a list of well trained martial art women without that of supernatural abilities. Each one of these characters have had male predeccors all playing similiar roles before them, why can't GTA???

 

Also, this doesn't mean that a man won't return in the next installment.

[Zyo]

I don't think that believability is the issue here. Most of us know that there is no reason why a female could not be as competent at carjacking and random violence as a male. The point being the majority of gta players are male, and feel the character should reflect that. Some of us don't care, and view the events as an observer rather than a participant int the gameworld. But not all.

 

Rockstar is big business now and keeping the majority happy and purchasing the product, is the name of their game.

[chngdman]

 

Xena - Xena Warrior Princess

Sydney Fox - Relic Hunter

Sydney Bristow - Alias (especially as she goes on missions and customizes her look)

Foxy Brown - Foxy Brown

Mary Shannon - In Plain Sight

Lara Croft - Tomb Raider

The Bride - Kill Bill

Charlie's Angles - Charlie's Angles

Max Guevera - Dark Angle

Buffy - Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Alice - Resident Evil

Nikita - La Femme Nikita

Barb Wire - Barb Wire

 

With the exception of foxy brown (cute ) and the bride, that whole list is geek-lore. Nope, don't want that to happen to GTA lol. All of those women are fictional, there is nothing that a woman character could add to this game without taking away from what it already delivers. It just couldn't be done unless it was some triad bitch or something who has killer katana skills or something... but then... you end up with one of the stereotypes on that list - none of them fit the crime world of Grand Theft Auto, NY Miami Wild West. And no woman on the planet could believably jack trucks and stomp truckers, etc. It just couldn't be done.

 

The only place you'll ever see this is the cheesy type places mentioned, basically. And personally, those characters are all pretty cheesy. La Femme Nikita? It was terrible, and she's a spy, not a person forced into crime and always trying to get out of it (which is the trend ever since Carl and minus Toni, who has a girl's name. lol. Antonio, not Anthony, I know )

 

 

Most of us know that there is no reason why a female could not be as competent at carjacking and random violence as a male.

 

Then most of us are in a fantasy world. Women who steal cars don't jack them in broad daylight - they would get the sh*t stomped out of them. This isn't a sexist thing to say - women are Not equal to men in the way this generation has so grossly misunderstood the whole movement, and women thinking they are is what is wrong with them today. They think they are the same as men, not just Equal to men, and that is probably the same thing making you think they could do what a GTA protag does. They can't. They would do it differently. They would be a totally different genre of game. There are some butch bitches out there, don't get me wrong... I'm just saying that it would not work in GTA for the simple fact that there is nothing believable to draw from. Even the movies with gangster girls fail. Set it off, anyone? Good movie, yea, but fake as hell except for Latifa who butch'd up for the role...

 

Maybe there could have been a female in the earlier games, but that would be because the earlier games were more immature. Now though, with the direction they are going with the main releases moving toward realism, a female niko bellic would be ridiculous, basically. It would be as ridiculous as Lara Croft is. Because she is ridiculous.

 

As ridiculous as Xena, which also is ridiculous, obviously. Fake hercules. And all of those characters, all of them, they have cult followings but for the most part everyone knows all of those shows and characters are for lonely nerds and the writing and acting in those roles were horrible. It doesn't mean only lonely nerds like those ridiculous atrocities for entertainment, it just means that was the target audience for them - a wholly different target than GTA. Again, because they were nerd-lore, not serious characters but fantasy stuff. And GTA is not fantasy stuff - it is gangland hollywood translated to games. There's really nothing to even draw from in the way other protags have all drawn from hollywood roles...

 

You would, again, end up with something totally different. Some Xena sh*t... or tomb raider... it's not for GTA.

 

@TC again: Make a list of girls you can compare to the other GTA protags, not just girls who play in "fanboy shows" (that's the genre lol). Then you will have some listed chance.

 

That means, don't list the fake and over the top female versions of thugs - instead, name some people who are actually believable. So, if you can list just 3 females who could play the role of a GTA protagonist without completely changing the character, then you got me. But I think you will be hard pressed to find just one female who could compare to niko, cj, tommy, or claude that isn't already a blatant super-human creation of some nerd writer's fantasy. Even the women in Sin City are too fake to ever be used. Like... When you see "tough girls" who can do these things, they are put on the screen to shine as very obviously over-the-top "yea right" stuff.

 

You'd need to really change the entire style of the game for it to work. You really would. Just, once again, look at the list you provided - all of your tough-girls are totally sci fi and unbelievable - which is why they work (the ONLY reason they work), and why they would not work in the GTA world.

 

You'd need to do sh*t like seduce people and get into that female side of the game - I'm sorry, female gangsters (no matter what kind, be it mafia or thugettes, be it soccer bitches, I don't care) do not do the things GTA protagonists do - they have other jobs, so you would need to entirely change the game...

Edited March 25, 2009 by chngdman

[JamalG]

female wont the protagonist in GTA, simple as that

 

close thread

[chngdman]

Nah, don't close it. There can be soooo many things that you, and I, am not seeing that outweigh all of the reasons there. It's engaging to see and I just blurted out what you'd expect to hear for reasons not, pretty much busting out with the "why the hate" re, and now there can be more points as to why there can be a female protagonist. I didn't write all of that out to end a discussion, I wrote it to extend it

[mattymcs]

I've always figured they would stick a woman in a DLC at some point. That way no one gets too upset as it's just a DLC.

[mkey82]

Nazis

Racists

Sexists

 

This is my all time lamers-goddamn-it-die-and-stop-wasting-our-oxygen list.

[OutOfTimer]

Is it so hard to imagine a female psychopath? Niko forces people out of their cars... How about she doesn't even ask questions but shoots the guy in the head and takes his car? How about she never smiles and uses a silencer at all times? Kills with cold blood at first sign of trouble?

 

Do you think it's all about being strong? I don't have to be strong to shoot you in the head...

 

I think people protesting against a Female Protagonist simply lack imagination. Of course men and women are a bit different but I think this fact only reinforces the plot. Niko Bellic is one of the most imaginative protagonists ever to have been created for a video game. How will they beat that? They have to come up with something different and intelligent. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a very radical idea this time. What would you come up with that wouldn't make people say "Niko could eat that guy for breakfast." At this point you need Jack Bauer or maybe... a woman. ;-)

Edited March 26, 2009 by OutOfTimer

[Versityle]

 

everyone knows all of those shows and characters are for lonely nerds and the writing and acting in those roles were horrible.

I'm not sure about the "lonely-nerds" comment, but I'm not the type of person who has to be right all the time and I can see you're point, you've opened my eyes friend.

 

It's true. It seems some of these roles, most of them any are a bit too contrive, are protrayed horribly and are just fantasy figures. (Especially the girls of Sin City... what a waste really). And I also get your point that though women are equal to men, they are not the same as men are born with a stronger build and less emotional I guess.

 

But that does not mean that a woman can't be tough whether in real life or in fiction. You want a believable tough woman... if there hasn't been, let GTA be the first, God knows Rockstar can pull it off. I wouldn't want GTA to go under the same fantasy that my list had provided, but I do think that Abigail can be beleivable if she is properly developed and as I stated before, it's what makes the character unique unlike any character we've seen anywhere.

 

 

You'd need to really change the entire style of the game for it to work.

 

Maybe to an extent, yes. A "few" missions offered would be different to that of previous games, but this is the kind of thing that would refresh the series a bit and offer something new. But basic gameplay would stay the same. It would still be open world, you'd have your procedural missions, collectable items, jumps, same basic game flow, and a killer storyline if done right as Rockstar know how to develop a wide array of diverse characters.

 

The only thing that would have to be changed is dating girlfriends and picking up hookers. But again, i'm sure that something we can do without or it can be replaced by something else.

 

So I do agree that the whole "nerd-lore" thing is a bit ridiculous but I still think a properly developed, female character can enhance the GTA experience right before playing as a male again in the next installment without any of the "yea-right" stuff you pointed out earlier.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Versityle

[Versityle]

 

everyone knows all of those shows and characters are for lonely nerds and the writing and acting in those roles were horrible.

I'm not sure about the "lonely-nerds" comment, but I'm not the type of person who has to be right all the time and I can see you're point, you've opened my eyes friend.

 

It's true. It seems some of these roles, most of them any are a bit too contrive, are protrayed horribly and are just fantasy figures. (Especially the girls of Sin City... what a waste really). And I also get your point that though women are equal to men, they are not the same as men are born with a stronger build and less emotional I guess.

 

But that does not mean that a woman can't be tough whether in real life or in fiction. You want a believable tough woman... if there hasn't been, let GTA be the first, God knows Rockstar can pull it off. I wouldn't want GTA to go under the same fantasy that my list had provided, but I do think that Abigail can be beleivable if she is properly developed and as I stated before, it's what makes the character unique unlike any character we've seen anywhere.

 

 

You'd need to really change the entire style of the game for it to work.

 

Maybe to an extent, yes. A "few" missions offered would be different to that of previous games, but this is the kind of thing that would refresh the series a bit and offer something new. But basic gameplay would stay the same. It would still be open world, you'd have your procedural missions, collectable items, jumps, same basic game flow, and a killer storyline if done right as Rockstar know how to develop a wide array of diverse characters.

 

The only thing that would have to be changed is dating girlfriends and picking up hookers. But again, i'm sure that something we can do without or it can be replaced by something else.

 

So I do agree that the whole "nerd-lore" thing is a bit ridiculous but I still think a properly developed, female character can enhance the GTA experience right before playing as a male again in the next installment without any of the "yea-right" stuff you pointed out earlier.

[Versityle]

Sorry, I don't know how my post got posed twice...

[CptPusheen]

Sorry, I don't know how my post got posed twice...

Now it's threefold.... Anyway... I hate tomboys... brutal and vulgar women make me sick... The Bride is the only one exception... I prefer girly girls so GTA with woman as a main protagonist just can't work for me

[Omnia sunt Communia]

I think people are afraid of playing as an women because they are afraid of powerful, dominant women. It's pretty much the same as people who did not like the idea of playing as an African-American in San Andreas due to some lament fears of black people.

 

Women may not be as naturally strong as men, that's a given. But that does not mean there are women out there who are as strong as most men. Do you think every man is a muscle-bound villain? There are weak men and strong men, just like there are weak women and strong women.

 

I personally believe that a female protagonist can add a lot to the franchise. You'd be able to face off against the same sort of prejudices Carl fought in San Andreas, but centered around your gender rather than race.

 

I mean just look at the Grand Theft Auto franchise so far. We've already been introduced to a number of strong, powerful women. Why can't we play a character like that?

[hadis111]

I don't want a female. That would be so annoying. A 5 feet "big" shemale that kills everybody coming in her way.....?

sh*t what do you think.

And a mafia family that has a women as a assassin.....

[Versityle]

Guys please! When picturing a female killer or criminal you have GOT to STOP picturing a "tomboy" or "shemale" or someone who is a buff, muscular or just regular Catalina-like pyschopath!

 

She is a WOMAN! A REGULAR woman! Just like Niko, Tommy, and CJ are a regular men. A properly developed character who has many traits that a woman has in turns of emotions, hopes and achievments. The only thing that doesn't make her a regular woman is her expertise in martial arts and foreign languages and that doesn't make her any less than a woman that just makes her damn right impressive in my opinion.

[CptPusheen]

A 5 feet "big" shemale that kills everybody coming in her way.....?

 

I totally agree... I would never play as something in between man and woman... yuck... It would be fun and amusing for dominant lesbians but not for me. Girls are girls... I love them because they are so different from us - men... And let's keep world this way

[OutOfTimer]

I simply cannot understand why you people believe it's about being "big" and "strong"? It's completely irrelevant if you have a glock and know how to use it. Jet Li and Jackie Chan aren't very "big" as well.

[CptPusheen]

I simply cannot understand why you people believe it's about being "big" and "strong"? It's completely irrelevant if you have a glock and know how to use it. Jet Li and Jackie Chan aren't very "big" as well.

Damn... GTA is about killing, thieving and making dirty money... I don't want woman doing all this stuff... leave this to alpha males... Girls are cute, adorable... girls hug us and cheer us up when we are sad and... As I said before, for me only girly girls matters so that's "why the hate"

[The BigSlick]

No it wont be a woman and if there is a God no GTA protagonist in the future will be a woman for reasons f*cking obvious. Im not sexist but R* would be alienating the majority of their fan base. Lets face it most GTA fans are male, and before one of you smart asses who are in favour of a female pratagonist say "prove it" I dont need statistics, I prove it with common sense.

 

Ahh I dont like to think about it, just thinking of oppening a door to a car and throwing a big fat guy out, twice the size of me yelling "get out f*cker!" in a high pitched voice, with all the female activities.. eeh it just makes me shudder.

[Dragonex100]

No it wont be a woman and if there is a God no GTA protagonist in the future will be a woman for reasons f*cking obvious. Im not sexist but R* would be alienating the majority of their fan base. Lets face it most GTA fans are male, and before one of you smart asses who are in favour of a female pratagonist say "prove it" I dont need statistics, I prove it with common sense.

 

Ahh I dont like to think about it, just thinking of oppening a door to a car and throwing a big fat guy out, twice the size of me yelling "get out f*cker!" in a high pitched voice, with all the female activities.. eeh it just makes me shudder.

Thats excactly what I've been trying to say....

 

 

No homo dude, but I love you.

[Omnia sunt Communia]

Sure is sexist in here.

[Wanted Assailant]

Can you source out a female crime/killing spree-er for me? The one who commits dozen of crimes and murders cops on a daily average? With a male, you can easily make that out.

Some have done worse. And don't refer to fictional woman in video games or movies, all of that is cliche and overused.

 

 

 

Seriously, it'll only work if the protagonist is Catalina/someone like her, or a shemale/buff woman.

 

 

 

Not Sexism. Just can't see it. It'll probably work. I'll buy it anyways as always.

[junkpile]

i can imagine having some down-n-dirty chick like mona sax (max payne 2) as the protagonist, but do i really want it? honestly, no.

 

[hadis111]

It's not hate but like I said it would be ridiculous that the biggest mafia family is owned by a normal woman. What if Tommy Vercetti were a woman ??

Like bartekxyz said womens are cute and adorable they are not such badass motherf*ckers like Tommy or Niko.

[Zatunks]

A few things would probably have to be tweaked to make it a little more believable for a (non she-hulk) woman character to be doing the same basic physical acts that the previous protaganists all do, but I see no reason why there couldn't be a strong, interesting female protaganist in a GTA game.

 

Not everything comes down to brute force. How much of that brute force has even been featured in the previous GTA games? Yes, there's hand to hand combat and pulling people out of their cars, but it mostly comes down to gunplay and driving skills in these games, right?

A woman can drive (stereotypes aside), a woman can shoot a gun.

 

So putting those issues aside, who's to say that it's just not believable for a properly motivated woman to take part in all of the same activities as the previous GTA protaganists? Believe it or not, not all women are either cupcake and cookie making, hug-happy, weaked-willed princesses or big she-hulk, flannel wearing goons with mullets.

 

Whether the next GTA features a woman or another man, I don't honestly care, because I know that Rockstar would be more than capable of making either one believable and interesting.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Zatunks

[VCRules86]

a woman just wouldn't work as a GTA protagonist.

 

I can't honestly picture a woman delving into the gritty and dark underworld of crime. I can't picture a female carrying out hits for the Italian Mafia and I just don't see a woman rushing into a warehouse packed to the hilt with armed crook and taking them out.

 

The game would have to be ridiculously restructured to fit a female protagonist.

 

And no I'm not sexist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alright maybe a little bit.

[Omnia sunt Communia]

 

Can you source out a female crime/killing spree-er for me? The one who commits dozen of crimes and murders cops on a daily average? With a male, you can easily make that out.

There is nobody who can claim such a strong rapsheet as the characters from Grand Theft Auto, be they male or female. However I did manage to come across this list which describes a good number of female criminals, their crimes ranging from robbery to rape.

 

I do not want Grand Theft Auto to go down such a dark path, however, don't get me wrong. I am simply presenting you with a large number of case studies to look over. I also came across this character during my research: Griselda Blanco.

 

I also came across this news article from the BBC:

 

"Three women were killed and five more injured in an unusual shoot-out between the female members of two Mafia families near Naples, in southern Italy."

Edited March 25, 2009 by Jacky Fiend

[CptPusheen]

Can you source out a female crime/killing spree-er for me? The one who commits dozen of crimes and murders cops on a daily average? With a male, you can easily make that out.

There is nobody who can claim such a strong rapsheet as the characters from Grand Theft Auto, be they male or female. However I did manage to come across this list which describes a good number of female criminals, their crimes ranging from robbery to rape.

 

I do not want Grand Theft Auto to go down such a dark path, however, don't get me wrong. I am simply presenting you with a large number of case studies to look over. I also came across this character during my research: Griselda Blanco.

 

I also came across this news article from the BBC:

 

"Three women were killed and five more injured in an unusual shoot-out between the female members of two Mafia families near Naples, in southern Italy."

We don't claim that there are no female criminalists... But I am personally sick about women who are able to do such terrible things