Don't exclude Modders

[Nietzsche's God]

The worst modders are the ones who frequently use the car spawners. I don't care how many of you do not crash servers, but would like you to know that it isn't over yet. You will be banned, I can assure that.

[McLovin2404]

No modder can guarantee that another person isnt going to cross the line into clear cut cheating, even tho those that do ruin peoples online game still are having problems simply accepting that doing so is out of order and simply cheating.

 

The only solution here, is the modders creating a separate 'front-end' that allows you access to a separate lobby where you can all be god-moder car spawners and have the type of 'fun' you are looking for, together.

Somehow tho, despite the 'modders' claims, i think such a solution would be dead in a week given the fact that we all know where the real source of their 'fun' comes from, i.e. getting out of cars in pure race, spawning a rocket pistol and camping the track like the sand people from star-wars.

 

Added to that, non of these so called 'modders' have the skill required to implement such a solution, so until they do, there needs to be precautions to prevent them ruining this game, which itself very nearly died from unavoidable cheaters.

 

 

I remember a guy, spawning ramps in front of people in a bike race, it wouldnt have been so bad, but the ramps were backwards so you ended up flying off your bike and dying on the flat wall, he said it was OK, because he was making a youtube video

That seems to be the mentality of most of the cheaters ive come across,in game and here. They feel immune to any repercussions and simply do what they want with a feeling of self-assuredness and complete disregard for anyone else in the slightest.

 

Any legitimate modders/machinimaniacs, have only one group to blame, themselves.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Modders are not cheaters, cheaters use mods.

Both legitimate modders and legitimate non-mod players alike have actually been f*cked over by the cheating little pussy griefers that can't win or have fun without haxx.

Now if those cheaters were to f*ck off altogether then modders and non-modders would hardly cross paths and we would all live happily ever after.

If you are so against modding, why bother owning a PC? Why not just get an Xbox or PS3 and merge in with the rest of the dull dreary sheep.

well said!

 

ditto to that!!!

[diamins0]

Cheaters give modders a bad name.

End of Story.

[checkmateinc]

car spawning isn't modding its cheating, modding is creating new maps and missions and sh*t, you guys are just cheating and trying to justify it, there are no modders in IV just cheater! thankfully there's onlye a couple now

[Psymn321]

 

Wrong wrong wrong.

Modders are not cheaters, cheaters use mods.

Both legitimate modders and legitimate non-mod players alike have actually been f*cked over by the cheating little pussy griefers that can't win or have fun without haxx.

Now if those cheaters were to f*ck off altogether then modders and non-modders would hardly cross paths and we would all live happily ever after.

If you are so against modding, why bother owning a PC? Why not just get an Xbox or PS3 and merge in with the rest of the dull dreary sheep.

 

There is an unavoidable equation that you seem to be missing.

 

(Mods + Modders)+ GTAOnline = Cheating

 

This is universally true. If you dont fall into this catagory then fine, just understand that your simply defending the people that do with every post you make.

 

You are saying im wrong but then you basically agree with every single point i make to the letter, thats just retarded lulz.

 

Only difference we have is that im perfectly happy that the mods are gone, while you would expect the 80% of 'normal' gamers (as far as gta is concerned), to just put up with the cheats so you can mod online. If thats the case, please refer to the formula and go f*ck yourself for the lulz that vanilla gaming doesnt seem to provide for you in this title.

[RedDawg]

You missed the point again.

 

We're asking for R* & MS to make it so that true modding is not considered cheating in GTA IV, like so many other games where MP modding is revered as awesome. If you don't think GTA IV should have the same features as many of the other games on the market then you're a true dunce because in the end modding is just fantastic in many games and GTA IV is one game where mods could really make the game more fun and last longer.

 

We want proper mod support and a proper cheat protection system. If you don't want that for GTA IV then you're simply unreasonable.

 

[pinky]

Wrong wrong wrong.

Modders are not cheaters, cheaters use mods.

Both legitimate modders and legitimate non-mod players alike have actually been f*cked over by the cheating little pussy griefers that can't win or have fun without haxx.

Now if those cheaters were to f*ck off altogether then modders and non-modders would hardly cross paths and we would all live happily ever after.

If you are so against modding, why bother owning a PC? Why not just get an Xbox or PS3 and merge in with the rest of the dull dreary sheep.

 

There is an unavoidable equation that you seem to be missing.

 

(Mods + Modders)+ GTAOnline = Cheating

 

This is universally true. If you dont fall into this catagory then fine, just understand that your simply defending the people that do with every post you make.

 

You are saying im wrong but then you basically agree with every single point i make to the letter, thats just retarded lulz.

 

Only difference we have is that im perfectly happy that the mods are gone, while you would expect the 80% of 'normal' gamers (as far as gta is concerned), to just put up with the cheats so you can mod online. If thats the case, please refer to the formula and go f*ck yourself for the lulz that vanilla gaming doesnt seem to provide for you in this title.

So say for instance three modders on their own game of freeroam, locked BTW, are cheating because we are using mods.

How, where is the Vanilla player getting screwed over here? Explain it to me.

How is my using Neons under my car improving it's performance in any way, considering I am the only player who can see them? Or my modified car colours for that matter.

All that is doing is adding my own touch to the game. Making me feel more part of it. That is what true modding is about.

 

The ones who use mods to gain an unfair advantage are cheaters and should rightly be banned etc.

Your equation was incorrect, it should read: (Mods + Disrespectfullnoobishlittlebastards)+ GTAOnline = Cheating

 

Now why can't you see the difference between the two, probably too closed minded. But then I am making assumptions about you like you do of me.

 

Managed to catch a picture of you having your rant:

 

 

[mkey82]

Let's not insult animals. Sheep have pride and dignity, also.

 

The one who fails to understand such simple terms as "modder is not equal to a cheater" and "it's not cheating if everyone agrees in a closed environment" should be banned from the Internet. Also, resorting to insults when your lame arguments fail is nothing but an unmistakable evidence of a week mind.

[Psymn321]

Problem is;

 

Legitimate GTAOnline modder ~ Cheater.

 

You cant ask me to discriminate between the two, mainly because of the work a 'legitimate' modder has to do, when joining a vanilla game, to return all their settings to normal, rather than just leave the altered configuration in place and f*ck everyone else (90% of the cheats imo)

 

You asked for modding support, R* said no, modders abused the game to the absolute limit and R* has taken initial efforts to stop it. When will you get the point that unless you can actually develop some bone fide modding skills and take the engine/environment and make your own front end (which is what usually constitutes a legitimate MOD fyi), that you are just a scrub cheater regardless of 'locked servers' or just playing with friends.

 

Until there is a proper MOD for GTA4Online youre simply are a bunch of cheats on your own server not bothering people, very similar to the 'knife & pistol' statpadding servers on BF or the servers not covered by VAC or PB generally.

 

You should not expect support from R*, mainly because it wasnt promised and also because the people making the tools for yo kiddos were so irresponsible with their implementation that they are akin to the companies that make retail cheats for other online game franchises.

 

Sorry about that. Sucks to be you...

 

Maybe posting another picture will make you feel better about yourself? Or maybe instead of moaning, you go learn C++ and get cracking on something usefull?

[pinky]

Problem is;

 

Legitimate GTAOnline modder ~ Cheater.

 

You cant ask me to discriminate between the two, mainly because of the work a 'legitimate' modder has to do, when joining a vanilla game, to return all their settings to normal, rather than just leave the altered configuration in place and f*ck everyone else (90% of the cheats imo)

 

You asked for modding support, R* said no, modders abused the game to the absolute limit and R* has taken initial efforts to stop it. When will you get the point that unless you can actually develop some bone fide modding skills and take the engine/environment and make your own front end (which is what usually constitutes a legitimate MOD fyi), that you are just a scrub cheater regardless of 'locked servers' or just playing with friends.

 

Until there is a proper MOD for GTA4Online youre simply are a bunch of cheats on your own server not bothering people, very similar to the 'knife & pistol' statpadding servers on BF or the servers not covered by VAC or PB generally.

 

You should not expect support from R*, mainly because it wasnt promised and also because the people making the tools for yo kiddos were so irresponsible with their implementation that they are akin to the companies that make retail cheats for other online game franchises.

 

Sorry about that. Sucks to be you...

 

Maybe posting another picture will make you feel better about yourself? Or maybe instead of moaning, you go learn C++ and get cracking on something usefull?

How about you learn some C++ instead and make an anti-cheat program for IV instead of moaning like a bitch.

Wouldn't you also agree that most of the problems in IV MP are created by C++ coders as it is, why add to it? Think things through FFS.

I have made plenty mods that others have downloaded and used at some point, therefore making them useful. What have you done for the community lately?

 

BTW really doesn't suck to be me , I have got a decent PC, nice car, nice home, decent woman and a well paid job. Not really much suckage in there, my only gripe is I have to deal with "kiddies" like you from time to time.

[Psymn321]

 

How about you learn some C++ instead and make an anti-cheat program for IV instead of moaning like a bitch.

Wouldn't you also agree that most of the problems in IV MP are created by C++ coders as it is, why add to it? Think things through FFS.

 

Because not having cheats is the default position, both of me and of R*.

 

So if you dont use C++ to code your new MOD's front end, what are you going to use? Thats the single most retarded thing ive read this year probably and you ask me to think things through to boot rofl.

 

 

BTW really doesn't suck to be me , I have got a decent PC, nice car, nice home, decent woman and a well paid job. Not really much suckage in there, my only gripe is I have to deal with "kiddies" like you from time to time.

 

LOL, well that sentence absolutely reeks of insecurity and/or a failed argument on your part. I dont recall getting into a pissing contest about rl but if you want to go there on a gaming forum, you can go there alone... Apart from saying that my cock has the girth of a coke can, so suck my balls if you can get your lips round em pmsl.

[pinky]

How about you learn some C++ instead and make an anti-cheat program for IV instead of moaning like a bitch.

Wouldn't you also agree that most of the problems in IV MP are created by C++ coders as it is, why add to it? Think things through FFS.

 

Because not having cheats is the default position, both of me and of R*.

 

So if you dont use C++ to code your new MOD's front end, what are you going to use? Thats the single most retarded thing ive read this year probably and you ask me to think things through to boot rofl.

 

 

BTW really doesn't suck to be me , I have got a decent PC, nice car, nice home, decent woman and a well paid job. Not really much suckage in there, my only gripe is I have to deal with "kiddies" like you from time to time.

 

LOL, well that sentence absolutely reeks of insecurity and/or a failed argument on your part. I dont recall getting into a pissing contest about rl but if you want to go there on a gaming forum, you can go there alone... Apart from saying that my cock has the girth of a coke can, so suck my balls if you can get your lips round em pmsl.

Lol.

Why do I want to make a new front end, to be a 1337 coder like yourself, spare me.

No insecurity on my behalf, I am a 37 year old man who knows pretty much where I stand in life as opposed to being someone who I can guess is some self professed leet coder who has the whole of life figured out.

We mod the game therefore it is called modding we don't vanilla the game do we?

It is like modifying a car, the manufacturer doesn't necessarily agree or build it with modding in mind but we still do it.

What part of that cant you figure?

You really do have the intellect and attitude of a Health & Safety worker. Talentless, backward thinking individuals like yourself are responsible for the dumbing down of the human race.

 

Normally I tell trolls to get back under their bridge where they belong, but in your case do us a favour and jump off it.

[BigSlongsDaddy]

EDIT wrong error for me

[Psymn321]

Dude, thats two posts where you seem to be talking about your personal circumstances in a thread about cheating in online games. If thats not some sort of mental imbalance or at least insecurity, i dont know what is. More importantly, its so off topic that its a disgrace to you, me and you 'decent wife' (haha, hope she never reads how you referred to her here btw).

 

Anyway, if your best argument for mods not being cheats, stem from the 'fact' that you are "37", with "a decent PC, nice car, nice home, decent woman and a well paid job.", then i rest my case since you are so far off topic that i can only assume youve conceded the actual debate.

 

Last word (from me anyway). If you made a map for GTA4Online, that WOULD be a mod, and i would agree with you (since you can only play other people who have that map), BUT since that is not the case, and in this P2P game your modifications represent a similar advantage to say, MultiHack in BF2 or aimbot in CSS, to the wider audience. thats simple cheating.

Saying that you and your 'friends', dont personally use your mods on vanilla games is simply an argument to let R* implement modding online for you and your 'friends' personally, which is a ludicrous position to be arguing from.

 

You really need to be thinking about what ive said regarding a separate, user made front end. All the reputable and worthwhile mods take this as a necessity, and while its not a prerequisite for simple 'new map' scenarios, if your gonna be making rockets come out of pistols for some but not all the players, then you have to, and have been segregated.

[pinky]

Dude, thats two posts where you seem to be talking about your personal circumstances in a thread about cheating in online games. If thats not some sort of mental imbalance or at least insecurity, i dont know what is. More importantly, its so off topic that its a disgrace to you, me and you 'decent wife' (haha, hope she never reads how you referred to her here btw).

 

Anyway, if your best argument for mods not being cheats, stem from the 'fact' that you are "37", with "a decent PC, nice car, nice home, decent woman and a well paid job.", then i rest my case since you are so far off topic that i can only assume youve conceded the actual debate.

 

Last word (from me anyway). If you made a map for GTA4Online, that WOULD be a mod, and i would agree with you (since you can only play other people who have that map), BUT since that is not the case, and in this P2P game your modifications represent a similar advantage to say, MultiHack in BF2 or aimbot in CSS, to the wider audience. thats simple cheating.

Saying that you and your 'friends', dont personally use your mods on vanilla games is simply an argument to let R* implement modding online for you and your 'friends' personally, which is a ludicrous position to be arguing from.

 

You really need to be thinking about what ive said regarding a separate, user made front end. All the reputable and worthwhile mods take this as a necessity, and while its not a prerequisite for simple 'new map' scenarios, if your gonna be making rockets come out of pistols for some but not all the players, then you have to, and have been segregated.

I need to think what I have said, FFS get a clue. How in the f*ck does a neon glow that only you can see under your own car surmount to cheating, pray tell me o great master of the mod universe?

It is still a mod isn't it, a plain yes or no answer will do fine as you are incapable of anything more taxing it seems?

 

Why not look up the word modification in the dictionary.

In fact here, I have saved you the bother as it would probably make your closed mind explode in process.

 

And yes mods and vanilla do need to be separated but using whole new maps is rather extreme way of doing it don't you think?

And yes the game is P2P but everything is these days thanks to closed minded individuals like yourself who just sit there and go BAAAAA while we are handed whatever sh*t a publishing company decides to spew forth. A large amount of games these days are piss poor ports and all seem to use P2P for their online gameplay elements.

So do you suggest we let modding die altogether as most of the new games are P2P, bearing in mind that a lot of the programming houses staff began their careers modding one game or another.

Why not try looking further than your nose for once and take in the big picture.

 

Basically you want to kill the games industry from it's roots it seems to me. Are you jack Thompson by any chance, just wondering?

[Psymn321]

I just happen to think that GTA4 is a kick ass game, and GTA4 Online is epic fun while there is fair play being observed.

 

 

And you are f*cking hilarious when you say that i accept any old sh*t thats put out there and as such, im killing the game industry; just another example of retard-level thought.

 

You sorta insinuate in your last post that standard GTA4 is boring and sh*t but once you put a pathetic cosmetic touch-up in place, like a neon under the car (ROFL), youve greatly improved it pmsl. Your a tinkerer mate, nothing more.

 

If you dont like the standard game because it didnt have neon, then im calling you on that bullsh*t, i support the modding community by playing all the properly developed mods for games that i like. Rather than taking a game that i dont like and putting neons under all the vehicles, because im not a fickle tool.

 

Just pathetic.

[pinky]

I just happen to think that GTA4 is a kick ass game, and GTA4 Online is epic fun while there is fair play being observed.

 

 

And you are f*cking hilarious when you say that i accept any old sh*t thats put out there and as such, im killing the game industry; just another example of retard-level thought.

 

You sorta insinuate in your last post that standard GTA4 is boring and sh*t but once you put a pathetic cosmetic touch-up in place, like a neon under the car (ROFL), youve greatly improved it pmsl. Your a tinkerer mate, nothing more.

 

If you dont like the standard game because it didnt have neon, then im calling you on that bullsh*t, i support the modding community by playing all the properly developed mods for games that i like. Rather than taking a game that i dont like and putting neons under all the vehicles, because im not a fickle tool.

 

Just pathetic.

I never said I didn't like the game, I just like it more when I adjust it to my own taste. Sure most mods for IV at the moment surmount to no more than tinkering but a lot of the mod community have to get started on the game at some point, do you think total conversions and other large mods just materialise out of thin air. They have to be worked at and methods found.

Again you are not showing forward thinking, do you create mods yourself or do you just leech from those other communities you support. Also, how do you think all the mods on those communities began?

It is like saying, you must use a joypad and not keyboard and mouse because that is how it should be played. Why, why not make it the way you like it to be.

 

And lets see some of your efforts, you can't sit there criticising other people when you don't put any effort in yourself.

[Unit Deserviced]

 

Cheaters give modders a bad name.

End of Story.

I agree two hundred and sixty three percent.

[noid449]

i would like to say , the reason i think theres alot of issues with mods , cheaters or what ever label they may have . is the fact there isnt a place people can honestly use them seperate or just giving the control to lock or boot extreme behavour like guns that fire tug boats etc , to the servers maker, instead of needing 20 people to vote to kick and one wont making it useless to control, but im not sure a company would really help as the longer you mod and change this game the less likely you are to buy their next one or offical download extras which make them money .

 

that aside im all for modded and non modded options for servers

 

just my own opinion

 

 

Edited April 1, 2009 by noid449

[Psymn321]

 

I never said I didn't like the game, I just like it more when I adjust it to my own taste. Sure most mods for IV at the moment surmount to no more than tinkering but a lot of the mod community have to get started on the game at some point, do you think total conversions and other large mods just materialise out of thin air. They have to be worked at and methods found.

 

They certainly dont come about as a diffuse mess of stupid alterations to simple text files that could be and mainly have been done by 10 year olds.

 

 

Again you are not showing forward thinking, do you create mods yourself or do you just leech from those other communities you support. Also, how do you think all the mods on those communities began?

It is like saying, you must use a joypad and not keyboard and mouse because that is how it should be played. Why, why not make it the way you like it to be.

 

I dont have time to create mods, the only MOD i currently play is BF2142:Firststrike, which has its own front end, and didnt need people to make rocket gun and run amok on multi before they learned enough about programming to create their own frontend and MOST importantly, the game DEV specifically supported modding in their engine. So you guys seem to be going about this totally ass-about face, almost as though your stated ambitions are far in excess of anything a diffuse bunch of amateurs are likely able to come up with, so in the meantime, most just ruined multi for others while they had the chance.

 

 

And lets see some of your efforts, you can't sit there criticising other people when you don't put any effort in yourself.

 

If youve ever tried destroying the Death Star on BF2142:Firststrike then you would know what effort is (and that would also go some way to help you understand what a complete mod experience is and how they should be implemented.

 

Until then you guys are tinkering with .txt files and claiming to be something special lol

[pinky]

I never said I didn't like the game, I just like it more when I adjust it to my own taste. Sure most mods for IV at the moment surmount to no more than tinkering but a lot of the mod community have to get started on the game at some point, do you think total conversions and other large mods just materialise out of thin air. They have to be worked at and methods found.

 

They certainly dont come about as a diffuse mess of stupid alterations to simple text files that could be and mainly have been done by 10 year olds.

 

 

Again you are not showing forward thinking, do you create mods yourself or do you just leech from those other communities you support. Also, how do you think all the mods on those communities began?

It is like saying, you must use a joypad and not keyboard and mouse because that is how it should be played. Why, why not make it the way you like it to be.

 

I dont have time to create mods, the only MOD i currently play is BF2142:Firststrike, which has its own front end, and didnt need people to make rocket gun and run amok on multi before they learned enough about programming to create their own frontend and MOST importantly, the game DEV specifically supported modding in their engine. So you guys seem to be going about this totally ass-about face, almost as though your stated ambitions are far in excess of anything a diffuse bunch of amateurs are likely able to come up with, so in the meantime, most just ruined multi for others while they had the chance.

 

 

And lets see some of your efforts, you can't sit there criticising other people when you don't put any effort in yourself.

 

If youve ever tried destroying the Death Star on BF2142:Firststrike then you would know what effort is (and that would also go some way to help you understand what a complete mod experience is and how they should be implemented.

 

Until then you guys are tinkering with .txt files and claiming to be something special lol

I do know what a big mod is like, I am part of the Gostown dev team. Just for the record.

 

I can be safe to assume we both agree on the cheaters part, but not wholly on the modding part.

You admit to playing a modified game, albeit not a GTA game. So therefore you know those who use mods are not necessarily cheats. That is my main point, I don't like being placed in the same bracket as some n00b who must win at any cost. I play plenty online games and prefer a level playing field that the cheaters don't, I have also been victim to cheats but still won't turn anti mod just because of it.

The problem is the cheaters mentality.

Admittedly some mods are made and you think to yourself "sh*t, this is going to get out of hand". Take the Hot Coffee mod for example, I know all that was already in game and it was only made accessible but did anyone think of the outcome and resulting chaos it would bring. Modders should take some responsibility for their mods and think off the outcome but we can't let cheaters dictate how things are run, for both modders and non modders. Mod creators were swinging round to preventing data critical cheats from being used online, although this is all conjecture now anyway since the latest patch.

I just hope R* has learned and will go the route of dedicated servers next time or implicate it in an upgrade, won't hold my breathe on the latter though.

The biggest single problem just know is the use of P2P online gaming, they are all too easy for cheats to hack simple data files and get the upper hand. A dedicated server with the important data being controlled from it's side with admins are what is needed to root out the majority of cheaters. You will always get the f*cknuts prepared to pay for aimbots though, even CD key bans won't stop those idiots.

 

I wouldn't say modders were a bunch of amateurs though, this is a group of people who never even have the simple tools handed to them on a plate. People modding games with SDKs are more amateurish as they need less effort to achieve their goal. We are all amateurs however, we don't make money making mods (some assholes try on ebay, usually with someone else's mod too) and just do it for fun or a challenge.