Best of Both Worlds...

[Magic_Al]

 

After Johnny completes the story, he must be stuck in a time-warp between two Niko missions. Which two?

The second-to-last TLAD story mission Was It Worth It takes place simultaneously to Niko doing No Way on the Subway, because Jim is alive at the beginning and dead at the end of both missions. The final TLAD story mission Get Lost is simultaneous to whatever Niko does next, and Niko's choices at that point include Late Checkout, Weekend at Florian's, or any incomplete missions in a previously unlocked thread. It's safe to say by the time Niko is doing Truck Hustle or Ransom, Johnny is in his post-game "life" such as it is.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Magic_Al

[The Notorious MOB]

 

OK time for me to put up or shut up. 

 

I want to make a guide to story intersections that doesn't suggest a particular mission order. Playing GTA is about freedom. Choose your own path with my Integrated Mission Tree.

 

There's room for improvement (I haven't added mission contact initials yet) so please leave comments:

 

GTA IV IMT.pdf

I think that's really good.. It looks like a lot of work went into it. I was trying to simplify it for people to give them an idea of what order the two games could be played but I think the chart format is equally as good as it includes side missions etc. The only thing it needs is a bit of tidying up and the name of the mission giver.

 

Also I've put ULP's missions after Ray's in the list for the time being untill I get a bit further into both stories and can find a hint of where they should go.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Money Over Bullshit

[Magic_Al]

I've uploaded an update with some corrections and addition of placeholders for known The Ballad of Gay Tony crossover missions. Previous links in the topic go to the latest version. Maybe this weekend I'll get mission contacts added.

 

I hope everybody keeps working on their own lists. The mission tree probably is too complicated, but it's a tool that can help with list-making.

[Versityle]

I've uploaded an update with some corrections and addition of placeholders for known The Ballad of Gay Tony crossover missions. Previous links in the topic go to the latest version. Maybe this weekend I'll get mission contacts added.

 

I hope everybody keeps working on their own lists. The mission tree probably is too complicated, but it's a tool that can help with list-making.

Yeah man, it helps.

 

I made my own custom list as well, where the missions are completley mixed around and about but still pertain to the chronology of the two stories using everyone's interpretations as guidance plus playing through the game myself. I didn't bother putting it up here cuz there was so many going already and didn't think anyone would be interested. Plus I'm waiting on BOGT to fully get it finished.

[The Notorious MOB]

Of course people will want to play the game how they want but the thing about the order of the missions is it can't be set in stone as we only know in what order half of the missions occur in, either because they appear in two or more games, only become available at certain times or are locked in time by the news stories which tell us what else is happening simultaneously with those missions. What I've tried to do is keep people's missions together so that they can be gotten out of the way and you can work for the next person as this is logicly how the story would go if there was a set path.

 

The only exceptions to this rule is when missions such as Shadow take place away from the the rest of the missions in that group and in this case I have put them in the list to be completed as soon as they become available.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Money Over Bullshit

[Magic_Al]

Integrated mission tree updated, now with mission contact initials (if they appear on the map) and a few more corrections.

 

A big part of this update is sorting out the end of the TLAD mission tree.

 

I replayed a section of TLAD a few different ways to test dependencies. I had questions about the mission tree I had made based only on prerequisites listed in the official strategy guide. That tree looked like you could get through the story without completing Ashley's and Jim's missions.

 

The strategy guide says only Shifting Weight is required to play Diamonds in the Rough. It says the same thing about Roman's Holiday. In fact, Coming Down and Bad Standing are also required, for both missions.

 

Figuring this out verified that Diamonds in the Rough and Roman's Holiday are unlocked at the same time, which is a little sloppy by Rockstar because it creates a story situation where Ashley is waiting for Johnny in two locations simultaneously! It also looks pretty sloppy on the mission tree, like there was supposed to be another mission where those three prerequisites might intersect, instead of all three going in two directions at once like they do. I consider this a clue that something got cut from the game.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Magic_Al

[JOSEPH X]

So what you`re saying is, you can get to a point in the game where Ashley is waiting at two locations?

 

That sounds like the Leila sharpe controversy, she probably should`ve been at one of either of those locations instead.

 

There`s been a bit of chat about the time Tony`s clubs are closed on the TBoGT forum, and it`s around "Truck Hustle" so I think Luis will be trapped in a time-warp similar to JK.

[Magic_Al]

So what you`re saying is, you can get to a point in the game where Ashley is waiting at two locations?

Yes. When there is both an "A" and an "RB" on the map, Ashley is waiting at her house with the guys who want you to kidnap Roman, and simultaneously she is waiting for you at Drusilla's restaurant to ask you to work for Ray.

[Versityle]

So what you`re saying is, you can get to a point in the game where Ashley is waiting at two locations?

Yes. When there is both an "A" and an "RB" on the map, Ashley is waiting at her house with the guys who want you to kidnap Roman, and simultaneously she is waiting for you at Drusilla's restaurant to ask you to work for Ray.

yeah, I noticed this too when I first did it and I was really confused.

 

Naturally, anyone would do "A" first as we know "Hostile Negotiation" takes place waaay before "Taking in the Trash". But what's stupid is that Ashley calls about Ray first before she texts you about "Roman's Holiday". Had it been reversed maybe we could have put sleep mode on after the text and get a call about Ray after the mission. "Sloppy" was the first word to come to mind when I found this out but at least we're still able to move chronologically.

[The Notorious MOB]

So what you`re saying is, you can get to a point in the game where Ashley is waiting at two locations?

Yes. When there is both an "A" and an "RB" on the map, Ashley is waiting at her house with the guys who want you to kidnap Roman, and simultaneously she is waiting for you at Drusilla's restaurant to ask you to work for Ray.

yeah, I noticed this too when I first did it and I was really confused.

 

Naturally, anyone would do "A" first as we know "Hostile Negotiation" takes place waaay before "Taking in the Trash". But what's stupid is that Ashley calls about Ray first before she texts you about "Roman's Holiday". Had it been reversed maybe we could have put sleep mode on after the text and get a call about Ray after the mission. "Sloppy" was the first word to come to mind when I found this out but at least we're still able to move chronologically.

There's no actual proof that she's waiting at two locations as we can't do both missions at the same time it's just the way it's scripted to give you a choice... Like the way Roman tells you the albanians are attacking him in the basketball court and you can choose to help him or not and even though you have to do it anyway but at a different time because it's the exact same event but played at different times. Or the way people tell you to come right away for a mission and you wait three days and then go and they won't be pissed off and are still in the dilema they were in before. Or the way you can f*ck up what somebody asks you to do and even kill them only to press A on a text message to bring them back to life and act out the exact same scene as they did the first time.... I think I've made my point.

[Magic_Al]

The text message you get for Roman's Holiday is something like "Get here soon," clearly referencing the A marker, so it's awkward that you can ignore that, do Diamonds in the Rough and she's there too. They handle the first Ashley mission Coming Down by forcing you into it when you answer her call. They should have done the same with Roman's Holiday.

 

The awkwardness carries over to the basic structure. Three required mission strands getting squeezed into one so abruptly spins a uniquely messy spider web of dependencies.

 

[JOSEPH X]

This has all been caused by the removal of Leila Sharpe. I think originally she should have been in Roman`s Holiday and Was it Worth it. She goes in the database as `deceased` imediately after No Way on the Subway is completed. That means Johnny should have given Jim the money and then got the text from Leila, but R* changed it really late on and merged Jim and Ashley into her parts.

 

I`d love to hear an honest account, from the people who made these decisions, but guess what...aint gonna happen!

 

EDIT: Come to think of it she could have been in Coming Down as well, and furthermore, Ashley`s model could`ve been originally meant for Leila.

Edited June 16, 2009 by II J0SePh X II

[The Notorious MOB]

This has all been caused by the removal of Leila Sharpe. I think originally she should have been in Roman`s Holiday and Was it Worth it. She goes in the database as `deceased` imediately after No Way on the Subway is completed. That means Johnny should have given Jim the money and then got the text from Leila, but R* changed it really late on and merged Jim and Ashley into her parts.

 

I`d love to hear an honest account, from the people who made these decisions, but guess what...aint gonna happen!

 

EDIT: Come to think of it she could have been in Coming Down as well, and furthermore, Ashley`s model could`ve been originally meant for Leila.

The thing with that is Ashley is in GTA IV during a pre mission cutscene and the The LCPD Database in GTA IV also. Her stats on the database are very similar to Leila's so I think theyre quite interchangeable although I still think Ashley was always meant to be Ashley as her stats say she acts as a link between Boccino and the Lost.

 

I've mentioned this before on here but There is an Unnamed woman at the start of Angel's in America that tries to hug Johnny and he pushes her away. This could be Leila as the fact that he pushes her away could suggest tension between them after they broke up. She also appears to be high... and we know that Leila is a Meth addict.

[Magic_Al]

I like the Leila Sharpe explanation. If she was in the game it would make sense to be getting messages and calls from both at the same time. Roman's Holiday and Diamonds in the Rough are both critical to the crossover story so with Leila out of the game Ashley got stuck being Johnny's motivation for both missions.

 

Maybe Leila Sharpe's removal has something to do with the Jim models not matching in IV and TLAD too. The timing of her death with the subway mission is very curious (could mean she was mean to appear and die in either No Way on the Subway or Was It Worth It). Depending how important Leila was, removing her could mean moving a lot of pieces around and creating new characters at the last minute. We'll probably never know. It reminds me of reading about early drafts of Star Wars where the character names and relationships are completely different.

[The Notorious MOB]

 

I like the Leila Sharpe explanation. If she was in the game it would make sense to be getting messages and calls from both at the same time. Roman's Holiday and Diamonds in the Rough are both critical to the crossover story so with Leila out of the game Ashley got stuck being Johnny's motivation for both missions.

 

Maybe Leila Sharpe's removal has something to do with the Jim models not matching in IV and TLAD too. The timing of her death with the subway mission is very curious (could mean she was mean to appear and die in either No Way on the Subway or Was It Worth It). Depending how important Leila was, removing her could mean moving a lot of pieces around and creating new characters at the last minute.  We'll probably never know. It reminds me of reading about early drafts of Star Wars where the character names and relationships are completely different.

I've come to the conclusion that they just put Roman's Holiday in at the same time as Diamonds in the Rough without even thinking logically about where it should go. By right it should really go in just after Elizabetha's mission Shifting Weight. This way the Timeline would make a lot more sense because then the Playboy and Dwayne missions would go before Packie McReary's missions instead of before Ray Boccino's which is the way most people would normally play the game seeing as though they become available after Blow Your Cover.

 

This seems to be the only thing throwing the Timeline off as the rest flows really well. They must've just said to themselves "We have to do a mission where Johnny Kidnaps Roman" and then Just stuck it in anywhere not even thinking that Ashley would call you and then text you a few minutes later to do 2 different missions.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Money Over Bullshit

[Magic_Al]

Roman's Holiday can be played right after Shifting Weight. The only big mistake, I think, is that Diamonds in the Rough is also unlocked. They should force you to do Roman's Holiday first. I think a lot of people play it in the right order anyway if they're emotionally invested in Ashley enough to respond to the urgency of her text message.

 

TLAD doesn't break the IV timeline but it does impose on it. Niko has several mission threads open after Blow Your Cover and The Puerto Rican Connection. Without TLAD they could be done in any order, but TLAD assumes Niko chooses to do Elizabeta first, Francis McReary (through Final Interview) second, Patrick McReary third, and then alternates between Ray Boccino and Playboy X (through Photo Shoot). Photo Shoot will unlock Hostile Negotiation. The rest of Ray's missions complete the overlap with TLAD.

 

If Roman's Holiday occurred earlier in TLAD, it would alter the order in which IV has to be played to sync up. Roman's Holiday forces Hostile Negotiation to drop several rows down in the mission tree and that drags Playboy X's strand down with it. Roman's Holiday and Diamond in the Rough being unlocked at the same time causes the same thing to happen to Taking in the Trash and Hostile Negotiation in the IV flowchart, if the IV player plays missions in the right order to sync with TLAD.

 

Interestingly, in the flowchart software, if I take out the dependencies between Diamonds in the Rough and Taking in the Trash, and Roman's Holiday and Hostile Negotiation, the flowchart software then rearranges everything to it's "natural" order, and Hostile Negotiation happens much earlier, about the same time as This sh*t's Cursed, and Taking in the Trash lands one row above Diamonds in the Rough which is slightly too early.

 

Before we say it's a mistake, forcing things to happen in this order may be required for TBOGT. After both DLC plot threads are woven in, Niko may have to play many missions in a particular order for it all to make sense.

[The Notorious MOB]

Yeah your right but it just doesn't seem right to put Playboy's Missions on the long finger since they get unlocked by Blow Your Cover which is alot earlier in the game than Ray Boccino's missions.

 

It could be something to do with The Ballad but I just think it makes things come accross as sloppy. I suppose the list could be changed around a bit so that Roman's Holiday occurs after Shifting Weight rather than Bad Standing but that would mess up the order of Elizabeta's Missions.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Money Over Bullshit

[The Notorious MOB]

It's been nearly a month so I'm gonna bump this.

 

I remember somebody going down to such fine details as to check people's blogs to see when they are updated and how this corresponds with Vanilla IV although this might seem a bit too much I think it is the best way of getting the Mission sequence completely accurate and could potential dictate the placing of the missions who's placings are not indicated by the internet news stories. So if somebody has the time to do this it would be grately appreciated.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Money Over Bullshit

[BuMbLeYbEe93]

Phil McCrevis, Richard Head, Seymore Fani and Isaac Hunt are all names that are written on a board behind Gerry when he's in prison. They can only be seen in his prison cutscenes.

 

Sorry everyone, this post was meant for a different page but ssomething messed up

Edited July 23, 2009 by BuMbLeYbEe93

[The Notorious MOB]

Phil McCrevis, Richard Head, Seymore Fani and Isaac Hunt are all names that are written on a board behind Gerry when he's in prison. They can only be seen in his prison cutscenes.

 

Sorry everyone, this post was meant for a different page but ssomething messed up

I think what you tried to do was to reply to a message contained on the first page of this topic... But you cant. If u hit the reply button your message goes to the end of the last page of the topic.

 

And I think most people already knew that (about the names) man.

[JOSEPH X]

It's been nearly a month so I'm gonna bump this.

 

I remember somebody going down to such fine details as to check people's blogs to see when they are updated and how this corresponds with Vanilla IV although this might seem a bit too much I think it is the best way of getting the Missuion sequence completely accurate and could potential dictate the placing of the missions who's placings are not indicated by the internet news stories. So if somebody has the time to do this it would be grately appreciated.

Which bloggers are these? You`ve sparked my interest for another playthru. Do you mean Alex Chilton?

 

Other than that, I think we`ve exhausted every avenue of research, and are just waiting for October 29th to come along when we can do the thing. Knowaddamean? da one wid da bad-a-bing!

[Magic_Al]

I guess between now and the time this moves over to the TBOGT forum I'd like it if anybody can find mistakes in my mission tree, looking at the accuracy of prerequisites within IV or TLAD, crossovers, and timeline. Ideally, I'd like the chart to mean that a player should do all the required missions in each row before going onto anything in the next row (order within rows doesn't matter), but it's probably not going to work out quite that nice and neat.

GTA IV IMT.pdf

[The Notorious MOB]

 

It's been nearly a month so I'm gonna bump this.

 

I remember somebody going down to such fine details as to check people's blogs to see when they are updated and how this corresponds with Vanilla IV although this might seem a bit too much I think it is the best way of getting the Missuion sequence completely accurate and could potential dictate the placing of the missions who's placings are not indicated by the internet news stories. So if somebody has the time to do this it would be grately appreciated.

Which bloggers are these? You`ve sparked my interest for another playthru. Do you mean Alex Chilton?

 

Other than that, I think we`ve exhausted every avenue of research, and are just waiting for October 29th to come along when we can do the thing. Knowaddamean? da one wid da bad-a-bing!

Yes but more importantly Eddie Low as his blog details specific kills that would appear at the same time in both stories. Alex's one would be just as good though... Best case scenario being somebody recording the changes to both blogs like I did with the news articles so as to not have any doubt about the timeline.

 

And yes I know exactly what you mean about the badda-bing.

 

EDIT: I loaded up my game complete save only to realise that the blogs Never get updated in TLAD.

So thats that whole thing gone out the window

Edited September 30, 2009 by Money Over Bullshit

[MitchJ90]

Which one is the most accurate list do you guys think?

[The Notorious MOB]

 

Which one is the most accurate list do you guys think?

6th Post Down on the First Page.

I did alot of research on it plus had help from others so It's about as Accurate as we're gonna get.

[JOSEPH X]

Which one is the most accurate list do you guys think?

6th Post Down on the First Page.

I did alot of research on it plus had help from others so It's about as Accurate as we're gonna get.

D`you know what? I`m just as excited for BoBW V2.0 as I am for BoGT.

 

[The Notorious MOB]

 

Which one is the most accurate list do you guys think?

6th Post Down on the First Page.

I did alot of research on it plus had help from others so It's about as Accurate as we're gonna get.

D`you know what? I`m just as excited for BoBW V2.0 as I am for BoGT.

It's coming dont worry

 

Also I'm thinking of rearranging the Start of the List so that "Clean and Serene" goes after "Uncle Vlad" as I think it would be better story wise and It wouldn't mess with the chronology because even though the Identity Theft story is the newest story on the net it could still be days old by the time we get to see it in TLAD and the next news story that crosses over with Niko's Story doesn't appear until after "Angels in America".

 

What do you guys think??

Edited September 7, 2009 by Money Over Bullshit

[shinsta312]

 

Which one is the most accurate list do you guys think?

6th Post Down on the First Page.

I did alot of research on it plus had help from others so It's about as Accurate as we're gonna get.

D`you know what? I`m just as excited for BoBW V2.0 as I am for BoGT.

I think the next time a post like this shows up in TBOGT thread, it should simply be called "The Impossible Trinity", as it does focus on the three protagonists.

[The Notorious MOB]

 

Which one is the most accurate list do you guys think?

6th Post Down on the First Page.

I did alot of research on it plus had help from others so It's about as Accurate as we're gonna get.

D`you know what? I`m just as excited for BoBW V2.0 as I am for BoGT.

I think the next time a post like this shows up in TBOGT thread, it should simply be called "The Impossible Trinity", as it does focus on the three protagonists.

No man I'm gonna call it The Possible Trinity. It was gonna be a suprise but you nearly got it so I might as well get it out in the open.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Money Over Bullshit

[The Notorious MOB]

Post Removed.