npore Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hey, I apologise if this has already been solved, but I have yet to find a solution for this problem. Thank you Rockstar for adding support for various steering wheels. My Logitech Driving Force GT (installed using the driver for the DFP) works fine in game, and using the profiler I successfully assigned the handbrake to the shifter on the wheel. The problem I (and what seems to be others) have is the massive dead zone in steering, which apparently is there for gamepads like the 360 controller, but with a wheel is a major problem. I realise the dead zone can be lessened proportionally by reducing the wheel's rotation, as someone from Rockstar has mentioned here, but going down to say a 145 degree rotation is almost not using a wheel at all (well, more like racing F1!), and there is still a significant dead zone. I would like to use a 900 degree rotation (closer to what most street vehicles are), but the dead zone is a joke! Seeing as you have thankfully moved to add support for wheels to be used, I ask if you could please address this major problem that almost makes using a wheel pointless. I'm no expert, but seeing as this dead zone is coded in intentionally, I would guess it would not take to much work to be able to let users toggle it on/off or be able to alter it manually. I realise you have bigger fish to fry in terms of patching, but it seems this could easily be addressed. Thank you PS. If anyone has a solution please let me know. Anyone else having this problem might like to second this request AMINtz 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor_ Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Actually there used to be a program that you could override Logi wheel deadzones... like 5 years ago but I used it On Xp. I had to use it because I had the super cheap yellow logi and after a small period of time it developed 5% deadzone in the center. Don't recall what it was called tho. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1058919913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
npore Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hmm I'm pretty sure that wouldn't help - my wheel doesn't have any significant dead zone. The slightest turn of the wheel registers with the controller config, and with other games such as Richard Burns Rally. I think you might be referring to something like DXTweak2, but you can now adjust the dead zone with more recent Logitech drivers. This dead zone is a deliberate one programmed into GTA4 - apparently to facilitate steering with gamepads - otherwise they would be too touchy. The game ignores input of the first x% of total steering rotation before actually steering. If say you reduced your total steering rotation, the dead zone arc proportionally reduces. At least this is what I think is happening. Thanks anyways Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1058920326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Toronto Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 We removed deadzone from steering input on wheels already. It may be that your wheel is mapping left and right digitally instead of mapping the analog input of a left analog stick on a control pad. When experimenting with Logitiech game pads we discovered the digital pad and the left analog stick swap mappings when pressing the "mode" button on the controller. Not sure if this may also be happening with your wheel? For the G25, I found by limiting the steering angle i was able to tune the wheel to my preference (in first person view). mirh 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1058922507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
npore Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 Thanks for the quick reply. I don't think my wheel is mapping digitally, as I have smooth analogue steering outside of the deadzone (e.g. once I get out of the dead zone the car turns slightly in the direction and keeps turning at that rate unless I turn the wheel further). Steering works exactly like it should out of the deadzone. Pedals are analogue too. It's interesting you say you have removed the deadzone from steering input on wheels - maybe my wheel is being treated as a gamepad by the game for some reason, not being detected as a wheel? From what I have seen on the forums it seems those who have their wheels working notice a large deadzone, including people with G25s. The deadzone is not so noticable with very small steering angles - have you tried a 900 degree angle? - it really exposes the deadzone for me - 90+ degrees each way (~20% deadzone). This, along with the fact that my wheel has no deadzone in RBR, makes me fairly sure I'm getting the deadzone from the game. The game surely is receiving the steering input when I'm turning in the deadzone, it just seems like it's ignoring the first x% of my steering angle - the deadzone changes if I change the steering angle. Cheers Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1058922792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkamil Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Indeed, deadzone is a big problem for me as well, I'm using DFP rev.2 and have about 120 degrees of deadzone each way when setting 900 dreegres in logitech profiler. I don't have problems with deadzone in any other game, I'm playing few games all the time like TDU, rFactor (with different mods), even sh*tty NFS and I never had any problems with deadzone since I tried my DFP in GTA4 Hope Rockstar will provide us some kind of fix as soon as possible or will repair it with the new patch because now it's completly unplayable. AMINtz 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1058923547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Toronto Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 For the time being, try restricting the steering angle from 900 degrees to something like 145. In first person view I find it quite enjoyable! Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1058923968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuakePhil Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Rockstar Toronto, First I want to congratulate your team for creating possibly the best game I've ever played. It is definitely up there on the list. And I also appreciate you being active on this forum. However, you must understand that switching to 145 degrees is not an acceptable solution. The deadzone must be removed -- otherwise your advertised support for steering wheels as of patch #2 is not correct, as the steering wheels do not work as they should. A steering wheel has zero dead zone -- not 180 degree deadzone which is effectively unusable. This is a simple change, and in light of how much excellent work you have put into this game, it is extremely disappointing that I cannot play it because the wheel is still not properly supported due to such a small oversight that can be fixed with such little effort. Best, Phil P.S. I have spent the better of the last 3 days after purchasing the game, googling around and trying to get the wheel (and/or good old mouse steering) to work, and I still have nothing to show for it. It is very frustrating, especially since such a small (yet very important) issue is marring what otherwise looks like a flawless experience. AMINtz 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1058989869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad4 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I too am having this problem. I also have a significant deadzone. Although it isn't listed as being supported, I tried using the Microsoft Xbox 360 Racing Wheel. It makes it rather difficult to drive: more subtle movements are difficult to perform. Considering that I have purchased this on Steam, I used both commandline.txt as well as the Launch Options in Steam to add -usedirectinput, but it doesn't affect the dead zone. I too would like to see a way for this dead zone to be removed. Perhaps another possibility would be to be able to use both the Xbox 360 controller along with the wheel interchangeably, the same way that you can use a gamepad and keyboard/mouse at the same time. Other than that, the game's thoroughly enjoyable! AMINtz 1 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059001891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuakePhil Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 This is still an issue with the latest 1.0.3.0 patch Wheels are advertised to work, but in reality they do not work. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059079529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad4 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Yea same old crappy deadzone Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059080901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuakePhil Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Please sign this petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/GTA4G25/petition.html I don't know if it will have an effect, and it doesn't mention deadzone (which seems to be an issue with every wheel?) but every little bit could help. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059085730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Toronto Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) In the Logitech profiler, select Options, then reduce the Degrees of Rotation. At 117 degrees there is no deadzone on a G25, ie i move the wheel a tiny tiny bit in either direction and you can visibly see the front wheel of the car react. In the game code there is no deadzone. Please explain to me why this is not an acceptable solution. Edited March 23, 2009 by Rockstar Toronto Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059086431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Toronto Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Make sure you are using the games "enable direct input" and not the old xinput hack otherwise the game will not recognize your wheel as a wheel and you will get a deadzone since your wheel will be recognized as a controller. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059089151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
npore Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Hey, Thanks for trying to figure out this issue. And thanks for the patches - keep 'em coming. Before going into the deadzone thing, I have a new issue: my Driving Force GT no longer works at all in the game (I do have direct input enabled). The only two things that have changed since I last used it are the new patch and going to Logitech 5.04 driver. I would say the new driver has caused it because previously I had to run with DFP drivers, but with 5.04, Logitech give proper support for the DFGT. So now that my DFGT is installed as a DFGT, the game ain't recognising it. This is probably because it's not a listed supported wheel in GTA4 (the DFP is). --> Please add the DFGT to GTA's 'supported' wheels. The DFGT is now an 'official' PC wheel (just like the DFP - initially not an 'official' PC wheel) Right, deadzone. Please explain to me why this is not an acceptable solution. From what I remember, I could drive around with low degrees of rotation such as the 145 you suggested. But even then, there was still a small deadzone. It was small enough to drive around though. "Acceptable"? Well... The deadzone was annoying, but not game breaking. I think anyone who has played driving games/simulators would probably disagree that it's acceptable. You see... having such low degrees of rotation is, well, like not using a wheel at all. Most cars have 900+ degrees of rotation. Just look at your animation of Niko turning the wheel in game - that's what using a wheel is about - not little motions side to side. I know some people prefer to use ridiculously small degrees of rotation, but most don't. I see you've gone down to 117 degrees now - is it your personal preference to be this low, or is it because it feels funny/weird at higher degrees of rotation? --> Can you please tell us what you get with 900 degrees rotation? Is it just some of us that are getting the deadzone? I realise you say that there is no deadzone in the game code, but that doesn't mean the game isn't causing it. Thanks for pointing out that the xinput hack could cause a wheel to be recognised as a controller (though I haven't played around that myself) - it makes the point that there is a deadzone for controllers. I just wonder if its possible that there is a bug in recognition of wheels (maybe just some?). Or maybe a bug in how wheels are handled - maybe some mistakenly get channelled through the deadzone code. (You can tell I don't know what I'm talking about , just some ideas). Or maybe the is a limited range of input the game takes, and for some reason decides to ignore the initial part of the range. Could you let us know how big the deadzone for the controllers is? Is it percentage? Because my deadzone increases and decreases with total degrees of rotation.. I don't know what's going on, but I'm sure the game is giving me the deadzone, for the reasons mentioned in my earlier posts. Thanks and I hope we can get this sorted. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059090932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilmcnessy Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) Which steering wheels are supported? I have a Saitek R660 GT steering wheel http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/r660.htm Edited March 26, 2009 by lilmcnessy Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059093698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
npore Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 The only wheels I have seen as officially supported are: * Logitech G25 Racing Wheel * Logitech Wingman Formula GP Wheel * Logitech MOMO Racing * MOMO Force * Driving Force Pro * Driving Force * Formula Force Supported controllers other than the xbox controller: * Logitech Cordless Rumble Pad 2 * Logitech Rumble Pad * Logitech Dual Action * Saitek P2500 * Saitek P380/P480/P580/P990 * Saitek PS1000/PS2700/P3200/P3600 * Gravis Eliminator Shock gamepad Got this from the notes of the patches. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059093733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilmcnessy Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 The only wheels I have seen as officially supported are: * Logitech G25 Racing Wheel * Logitech Wingman Formula GP Wheel * Logitech MOMO Racing * MOMO Force * Driving Force Pro * Driving Force * Formula Force Supported controllers other than the xbox controller: * Logitech Cordless Rumble Pad 2 * Logitech Rumble Pad * Logitech Dual Action * Saitek P2500 * Saitek P380/P480/P580/P990 * Saitek PS1000/PS2700/P3200/P3600 * Gravis Eliminator Shock gamepad Got this from the notes of the patches. Thanks dude, too bad its not supported, could you support my one though rockstar? I think its a really new steering wheel Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059093736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
funatic Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I can verify the annoying deadzone issue, altho its not as bad as you guys with G25 mention (I have a Logitech MOMO with 270 degrees rotation) I still do feel it and find it quite annoying. Wheel starts to react after turning it 45 degrees to either side. I totally agree that this is unacceptable. Unacceptable for a serious company who is selling a serious product at least. People payed for 900 degree's rotation wheels and want to use it so why should they be restricted to do so? Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059095253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuakePhil Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Suppose I sold you a phone. But when you try to dial a friend's number, you find out that the number 9 key doesn't work. Would it be acceptable for me to tell you the solution is to avoid dialing number that have a 9 in them? Other games, games lesser than GTA4, have no problem using the wheel without any deadzone. On the other hand, GTA4 is probably the one game where the player can use the wheel to its full potential (so far as being a sandbox driving game) But the player cannot, due to this deadzone issue, which seems to be caused by the game detecting the wheel as a controller. Furthre frustrating this issue is the fact that the solution is mind numbingly simple (unless there's something I don't know). All you need is one extra options: "Force controller deadzone off" With best wishes, Phil Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059095555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuakePhil Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I have created a video to illustrate this issue. I hope you enjoy it and I hope it sheds some light on what I'm saying. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059095750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad4 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) I just deleted commandline.txt and removed all launch options. I made sure that Enable DirectInput was set to 'Yes'. Still having the same deadzone (roughly 30 degrees, 15 each side) with my Microsoft Wireless Racing Wheel. Edited March 27, 2009 by nomad4 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059096125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
funatic Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Still having the same deadzone (roughly 30 degrees, 15 each side) with my Microsoft Wireless Racing Wheel. Wow u maybe have the best deadzone yet Mine is arround 90 degrees, 45 to either side and G25 users seem to have even worse problems. I would consider myself lucky if i were u :> Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059097327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad4 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) Heh, I see what you're saying. Thing is, it's still practically unplayable. And the thing is, my wheel (Microsoft 360 Wireless Racing Wheel) only has 270 degrees of rotation. Doing the math, I think it's about the same proportion of deadzone. That indicates to me that's it's something universal to all of us using a wheel: some kind of percentage of deadzone. I find it odd how this person from Rockstar is trying to tell us that there is no deadzone in the game code, but so many of us are experiencing it. I doubt that we're all somehow doing the same exact thing wrong. This deadzone thing is very consistent amongst many of us. Frankly, I'm very disappointed, and I feel cheated. Most of the reason I purchased GTA IV on the PC (I had already purchased the Deluxe Edition, the one with the safety deposit box, for the Xbox 360) was to be able to play with a wheel AND a controller/keyboard. On the 360, I couldn't control Niko on foot at all if I was using the wheel. Now that there is supposedly multiple DirectInput controller support, I am hoping even more that they will finally fix the deadzone! Edited March 27, 2009 by nomad4 Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059097341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuakePhil Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 all we need is one extra option, or one command line switch: -removedeadzone Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059099703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
npore Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 I just deleted commandline.txt and removed all launch options. I made sure that Enable DirectInput was set to 'Yes'. I'm not sure if this was directed at me re my DFGT not working/getting unsupported wheels going. Tried deleting commandline.txt anyway, not expecting much, and it didn't help, as expected. Hope the deadzone is fixed (and the DFGT added to the group of supported wheels).. @Rockstar: what do you get at 900 degrees of rotation? Anyone with a wheel have nil deadzone? Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059114024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiny Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) Nope, still have a rather large deadzone. Funny thing i found out is that with 119 degrees of rotation (couldn't get it on the 117 hahaha) as i drove off, i noticed that everytime i steered it doesn't want to go full tilt; the wheels of the car just wont turn further. I'm quite a serious simracer and to have a game with a wheel deadzone would kill it for me, thankfully this game is well playable with keys and mouse. I've noticed that once you get upto speed in GTAIV, the wheels on the car wont go full tilt, this is known as "speed sensitive steering" in most racesims (at low speed it will give you the full 45 degrees the wheels on the car will turn, if you're speeding up you will see the wheels not turning more then half that) I know it's for keeping control at high speeds, but taht would be the funpart, where the physics of the car take over and if you really want to get the car to skid you'd have to turn your wheel harder from side to side. Anyways... once the deadzone gets sorted somehow (i'm guessing by someone writing yet another line of code) the next thing on the agenda will be "speed sensitive steering" Hope i explained it correctly to you lot, best of luck, and Rockstar: Keep up the good work, love this game! Regards, Steiny Edited April 15, 2009 by Steiny Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059143306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zehknas Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 (edited) Hi all, my first post here. I have the same trouble, deadzone and strong Force Feedback. I have read from Toronto about change degrees to 117... Then, For what do I want a wheel? for so low steering, I preffer use the keyboard, if there is a wheel support, it would be better and have some config like deadzone and % FFB. It will be very nice and many people will be happy if GTA4 devs fix it, I have a G25, it goes PERFECT in all games, arcade or simulators, and having so nice wheel, it's very sad have to adjust it to 117/900 degrees only (anyway, it stills having a deadzone, less, obviusly, but it has it...). Please, Would you devs, or some fan if devs don't do it, fix this problem with FFB and deadzones? So many time has passed from the release of the patch wich includes the wheel support and there isn't a fix for it yet. I'm very disappointed, Live for Speed's devs work faster and they are only 3 . Greetings. Edited April 27, 2009 by Zehknas Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059175496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nascarbuc Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I'm afraid it's not just a small deadzone problem, it's just the control scheme is designed for gamepads in the first place. Steering wheels are not really supported: you can only use a steering wheel to emulate an X360 controller. Don't get me wrong, I'm not obsessed with the whole 900° angle thing. Even in TDU I set it to either 540 or 720 degrees, rarely 900. I wouldn't have a problem with it at 300° but come on, even at 150/180 you can feel you're just trying to reproduce the movements you get with a gamepad. It's just too annoying. Maybe in the future Rockstar will include a Mirror's Edge-like first-person view for more mature players. When the average PC is more powerful we might get highly detailed car interiors and full 360° dof with support for TrackIr's 6 dofs. And... full support of steering wheels, shifters and clutch pedals. But for the time being, GTA games are stille designed as kiddie games with adult themes. In that regard, it's already pretty amazing that Rockstar devs are even bothering with trying to implement some sort of support for wheels at this stage. It might signal a shift in how they will conceive the series after this opus. But until then I'm afraid we'll have to rely on modders to bring the experience closer to what it should have been in the first place, like C06LT's indispensable first-person view mod. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059176052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle016 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Has anyone found a solution to the dead zone? I've changed the degree or whatever to 117 but it still has the deadzone in it (about 90, probably). It feels a little better... but I want an actual solution. Link to comment https://gtaforums.com/topic/394858-removing-dead-zone-in-steering/#findComment-1059215230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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