Dingdongs Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Do you guys think it is possible that R* is just saying that GTA IV is a whole new universe? It could definitely be possible that they are just saying that. I just had a thought that it might still be the same era as GTA III. Some things that made me think this were Claude's outfit that you get if you decide to kill Playboy X. There is also the Madd Dogg and OG LOC CD's found in the Bohan safehouse. ( I believe that the Madd Dogg one is also in PBX's apartment. ) The graffiti on the walls around the city, hearing about VROCK and Love Fist on the radio,etc. I could be wrong or I could be right, I was just thinking of this a few minutes ago and decided to post it to see if anyone else had the same assumptions. Edited January 22, 2009 by Irviding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Mozzarelli 80 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I don't see any reason for them to say that unless it were actually the case. The outfit and CDs are just easter eggs, which have been put in there as a nod to the old games. So if you like, you can consider the whole of GTA as one universe, but as far as the story goes, we are unlikely to see the old characters back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) I don't see any reason for them to say that unless it were actually the case. The outfit and CDs are just easter eggs, which have been put in there as a nod to the old games. So if you like, you can consider the whole of GTA as one universe, but as far as the story goes, we are unlikely to see the old characters back True, I was thinking that because of that graffiti it is possible that they will not even come back IF it is part of the same era which is just something I thought of, hypothetically speaking all the former protagonists are dead, due to what is written on the graffiti. I'm probably wrong anyway, this is just thinking outside the box. Edited January 22, 2009 by Irviding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girish Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 It's pretty much clear that R* have kicked off a new cannon with GTA IV. All those easter eggs are for fun so that we can look at them and say, 'Hey look, wasn't that the guy from...?' The past GTAs have got no connection whatsoever with IV and what is going to come next. You can expect characters from IV making a comeback in the next GTA, but none from the GTAs prior to IV, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnia sunt Communia Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Think of them in the same way you think of things from GTA 1/2 found in the GTA III canon. They're there just to remind us fans that this may be a new game, but they haven't forgotten about their roots completely. It's just like Wang Cars in San Andreas; it's nothing to do with the Wang Cars from GTA 1, it's just an nod to the older games for those of us old enough to have played them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chngdman Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 It's an alternate universe, and those things are there for the reasons said above. Alternate universe - so same places, different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnia sunt Communia Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Liberty City (III) is not the same place as Liberty City (IV) though, that's quite obvious... Oh forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Liberty City (III) is not the same place as Liberty City (IV) though, that's quite obvious... Oh forget it. Obviously, the first one is more like Boston or Detroit. It's really just a thought I had, just felt like bringing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QwertyAAA Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Occam's razor. If two city maps, stated to represent the entire location, are radically different in two incarnations of the game, they are in different universes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 If you start applying Occam's razor to game canon, you'll end up with a bloody stump incompatible with survival. Ok, maybe that's pushing metaphor a bit, but I hope you get what I mean. People make canon, and people don't always go for simplest, most elegant solutions. Personally, as a hypothetical, I don't see a problem with IV and III being put into the same universe despite schizophrenic nature of Liberty. It's like in some dreams, you might start out in one location, and then it ends up being totally different without you actually going anywhere. It's till the same dream and the same location, but scenery changed because you had more time to think about it. Same thing can be said about locations in games. They tend to morph from one game to another, but it doesn't mean that these games can't be parts of the same story. To put it another way, I think that canon should be seen as continuity of the story. Location is just scenery used for this particular production of this portion of the play. Just because you have different actors with different backdrop telling you the story, doesn't mean that the story itself has changed. That said, if R* said it's new canon, it's new canon, and there is no point arguing with that. It's just silly. Prior to filing a bug against any of my code, please consider this response to common concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QwertyAAA Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 What the f*ck are you talking about? Wait, are you disagreeing or agreeing with me? Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm disagreeing with your reasoning. But that's a moot point, because we have it from horse's mouth. Prior to filing a bug against any of my code, please consider this response to common concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chngdman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Liberty City (III) is not the same place as Liberty City (IV) though, that's quite obvious... Oh forget it. Nah, see this is where ppl get confused. It IS the same place, it is a different "universe", and a new version. if it wasn't the same place, it wouldn't be called Liberty City. Same place, new version, different "universe". And to dude under you, most of the old liberty were New York City landmark buildings and Philadelphia places (the college, the hospital, the stadium - all in philly, home of the Liberty Bell, but not exact matches) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnia sunt Communia Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 There's a London in England and a London in America; they must be the same place because they have the same name! Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chngdman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) Well, you do have a point, unfortunately it's not a good one when we're not talking about real places but fictional places that bear many of the exact same landmarks, just done - surprise - better the second time (in non-top down 3D) around. Dude, different universe, same exact place Come on Jack, we've been through this together. Staunton/Stanton. Shoreside Vale - me and my buddies are going SHORE SIDE for the weekend, you game (AKA going to the Jersey shore...)? The excuse they made about Liberty being "not new york" before was merely in response to the lash of people who complained after trailer one revealed it. Can I prove it? Absolutely not, there is enough evidence from GTA 1 until now.... Edited January 23, 2009 by chngdman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K^2 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 There's a London in England and a London in America; they must be the same place because they have the same name! Am I right? If they both stand on Thames River and have a Big Ben, I'm willing to accept it as a possibility. As much as people say that III's LC wasn't NYC, there is the central park, the Flat Iron, and many other similarities. Far more than with any other Eastern Coast city. III's LC and IV's LC is the same city. It has been rethought, reenvisioned, and rebuilt, but it's the same place. When first playing IV, you can't tell me that a lot of places didn't feel like you came back to the city you know after having been away for a long time. Prior to filing a bug against any of my code, please consider this response to common concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 There's a London in England and a London in America; they must be the same place because they have the same name! Am I right? If they both stand on Thames River and have a Big Ben, I'm willing to accept it as a possibility. As much as people say that III's LC wasn't NYC, there is the central park, the Flat Iron, and many other similarities. Far more than with any other Eastern Coast city. III's LC and IV's LC is the same city. It has been rethought, reenvisioned, and rebuilt, but it's the same place. When first playing IV, you can't tell me that a lot of places didn't feel like you came back to the city you know after having been away for a long time. The LC in GTA III is probobly based off mostly of new york and then the rest on Philly and Boston, around there. I am a resident of New York and I will tell you for sure GTA III doesn't resemble the city that strongly. Anyway, yeah, R* did state that, but I was just thinking , playing GTA IV doesn't make it obvious, its not like Niko would know CJ Tommy Vic Toni Claude etc. Theres billions of people in the world.. Honestly, the only protagonists that know each other from III era are Tommy and Vic probably through Lance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnia sunt Communia Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Rockstar have stated that Liberty City (III) was just an amalgamation of various east coast cities. While it may be the same place in name and possible location, the places it was based on are completely different. This can be seen through the cities themselves; you cannot deny the fact that Liberty City (IV) is clearly a lot more like New York City than it's GTA III counterpart. I consider Liberty City (IV) to be in a different universe to Liberty City (III), but not merely just a re imagining of the latter city, but a completely different place with the same name. There's not much the two cities have in common other than the few New York City landmarks they both share parodies of. As for protagonists knowing each other; I believe CJ knew Claude Speed, did he not Irviding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Mozzarelli 80 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I consider Liberty City (IV) to be in a different universe to Liberty City (III), but not merely just a re imagining of the latter city, but a completely different place with the same name. What's the difference? I can't even believe people are still arguing about this. I think you're just not supposed to care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Rockstar have stated that Liberty City (III) was just an amalgamation of various east coast cities. While it may be the same place in name and possible location, the places it was based on are completely different. This can be seen through the cities themselves; you cannot deny the fact that Liberty City (IV) is clearly a lot more like New York City than it's GTA III counterpart. I consider Liberty City (IV) to be in a different universe to Liberty City (III), but not merely just a re imagining of the latter city, but a completely different place with the same name. There's not much the two cities have in common other than the few New York City landmarks they both share parodies of. As for protagonists knowing each other; I believe CJ knew Claude Speed, did he not Irviding? It's not arguing, we are having an intelligent debate. And your right about CJ knowing Claude , forgot all about the whole " f*cking snake without a tongue " and " motherf*cking mute " etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnia sunt Communia Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Don't forget too, Claude worked for Toni. Tommy is also infamous in Liberty City as "The Harwood Butcher," I'm sure Toni must of heard of him. CJ probably knows Toni too, considering the five years he spent in Liberty working for Joey. Come to think of it, Toni seems to be the most 'in the know' of all the GTA protagonists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Don't forget too, Claude worked for Toni. Tommy is also infamous in Liberty City as "The Harwood Butcher," I'm sure Toni must of heard of him. CJ probably knows Toni too, considering the five years he spent in Liberty working for Joey. Come to think of it, Toni seems to be the most 'in the know' of all the GTA protagonists. Yeah your right. I never played the stories games though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chngdman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) Also, Tommy met Vic in the very beginning of Vice City and watched him die - although this comes with some problems, it is the fact. And, Jack, you are quite dense lol hehe The old Liberty City - no matter what you choose to believe - was more new york than any other place. Don't be an eediot man. Seriously. Please stop trying to make this make sense in some imaginary way. Here, Let me show you a map: Not only that, but as K^2 said, if those places had big ben, then you'd be making a point, but they don't, so you're not. And I will now make a point: Liberty old and Liberty new both have REIMAGINED Francis International Airport. And so on.... Look, just a few pointers, and there are others in text throughout this topic already: NOW what you will see is that it was all TERRIBLY innacurrate and included other landmarks from elsewhere, you still have CHINATOWN, you still have many things - you are WRONG jack. lol. This is THE SAME PLACE with BETTER RESULTS. You didn't expect subsequent versions to get worse did you? Look man, IRREGARDLESS of what rockstar said when, again, the fans were CRYING about "New York Again " as an excuse, that f*cking place was based on New York MORE SO than and other place it included landmarks from. And I will again and again always come back with brand new proofs each time I see you spread your unwitting disinformation. No offense, really, oh, and go ahead, try to explain the tunnel, the bridges, please explain chinatown, Sal and the Mafia, UNDENIABLY New York City: FLATIRON MOFO: Now, I realize you will bring more farfetched sh*t to try and grip to your fantasies, but believe me, I have not begun to start pouring out the details that scream ROCKSTAR LIED TO MAKE THE FANS HAPPY AND YOU TOOK 1 SENTANCE TO HEART AND DO NOT EVEN REALIZE THAT HE MEANT IT IS THE SAME PLACE BUT DONE CORRECTLY THIS TIME lololol /end big ass letters. All I ask now is that when you actually speak on this subject, have the common decency to post proof - not just hypothetical theories or excuses for when fans are bitching about 'old locations' lololololol Arguing these facts shows not a search for details, but instead it shows a lack of a grip on art expression. Edited January 23, 2009 by chngdman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnia sunt Communia Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) ROCKSTAR LIED TO MAKE THE FANS HAPPY AND YOU TOOK 1 SENTANCE TO HEART AND DO NOT EVEN REALIZE THAT HE MEANT IT IS THE SAME PLACE BUT DONE CORRECTLY THIS TIME lololol Sorry, I forgot you worked for Rockstar. Forgive me. Just because you said Rockstar lied, doesn't make it so. You can't change what they said; it's canon. They have more control over Grand Theft Auto than you can ever hope to have. I also don't think I need to take advice from somebody who writes in all capitals, bad English and feels the need to advertise a "get rich quick scheme" in their signature. In all honesty, I don't see what we're arguing about. I have never said that Liberty City (III) wasn't New York City, I was simply stating that it's based off NYC and the east coast in general. However, it is not solely based on NYC like Liberty City (IV) was. If you honestly think that, then you're just a little slow-minded. Edited January 23, 2009 by Jacky Fiend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainland Marauder Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 In all honesty, I don't see what we're arguing about. x2. Let's keep the flaming and the caps to a minimum, ok? "You tell me exactly what you want, and I'll explain to you very carefully why it cannot be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chngdman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) I also don't think I need to take advice from somebody who writes in all capitals, bad English and feels the need to advertise a "get rich quick scheme" in their signature. I'm an internet marketer. And it's your loss to be naive. There is no better profession on the planet (I mean, if you like to be laid back, go on holiday when you want to, and bring work with you, and answer to yourself, and decide how much you want to make any given day...), and it is not a get rich quick scheme. It is legitimate and I get paid by them often. There are many ways to make money online. Write articles, work in CPA... lots of stuff. it is the answer to the employment crisis, and every corporate slobs worst nightmare. Ringtones blow the doors off of record sales - Jada Kiss, and he is correct. GTA IV makes a whole lot of money using this profession... Zit ring a bell? You don't have to believe me, I don't care. You are, indeed, incorrect in your thinking, and it shows you lack an understanding of alternate universes in fiction... I'm not trying to argue to make you appear wrong, I am trying to open your eyes to a much bigger and better experience and feat by the developers than you currently see. Being blind of this one detail truly denies you a grand view, one which I hope to share with you, not force upon you. That was a really low blow to attack my sig, and your incorrect assumption of that matches your incorrect assumption that Liberty City is not the same place with different "faces". It is the same f*cking place dude Edited January 23, 2009 by chngdman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingdongs Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 I also don't think I need to take advice from somebody who writes in all capitals, bad English and feels the need to advertise a "get rich quick scheme" in their signature. I'm an internet marketer. And it's your loss to be naive. There is no better profession on the planet (I mean, if you like to be laid back, go on holiday when you want to, and bring work with you, and answer to yourself, and decide how much you want to make any given day...), and it is not a get rich quick scheme. It is legitimate and I get paid by them often. There are many ways to make money online. Write articles, work in CPA... lots of stuff. it is the answer to the employment crisis, and every corporate slobs worst nightmare. Ringtones blow the doors off of record sales - Jada Kiss, and he is correct. GTA IV makes a whole lot of money using this profession... Zit ring a bell? You don't have to believe me, I don't care. You are, indeed, incorrect in your thinking, and it shows you lack an understanding of alternate universes in fiction... I'm not trying to argue to make you appear wrong, I am trying to open your eyes to a much bigger and better experience and feat by the developers than you currently see. Being blind of this one detail truly denies you a grand view, one which I hope to share with you, not force upon you. That was a really low blow to attack my sig, and your incorrect assumption of that matches your incorrect assumption that Liberty City is not the same place with different "faces". It is the same f*cking place dude Couldn't you have done that in a PM? This is a discussion on GTA III/IV era. Not your profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainland Marauder Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 If this topic doesn't get back on track soon it's getting locked up. Anyway, I don't really see the Liberty City of old being the same as the Liberty City of GTA4, so not only do I see no characters crossing over besides maybe a couple references, but that the universes while linked somewhat do not actually cross over. GTA3 canon is what it is, and this is now the IV canon. "You tell me exactly what you want, and I'll explain to you very carefully why it cannot be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QwertyAAA Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 If this topic doesn't get back on track soon it's getting locked up. Anyway, I don't really see the Liberty City of old being the same as the Liberty City of GTA4, so not only do I see no characters crossing over besides maybe a couple references, but that the universes while linked somewhat do not actually cross over. GTA3 canon is what it is, and this is now the IV canon. Nah nah nah, it's the same city, but at some point in history, it branched out, and those two versions were created - thus, different canons, but the same city, though changed. The universes are different, but some points are the same because not everything split off. See, it's quantum, or whatever passes for quantum around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainland Marauder Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 The GTA3 canon ostensibly covered three decades, starting from 1971 when Tommy Vercetti went to prison, to 2001 with the events of GTA3 itself. IV is set in the present day (I gather anyway) so if this new canon goes anywhere back in time, are we looking at overlapping? I'm thinking the characters of the GTA3 series will be left alone. Sure, you might see a picture of Claude here or Tommy on the cover of a magazine there in the future, but it means nothing. There's only so much you can go back and do with the same characters until there's no continuity or sense at all in the whole storyline. "You tell me exactly what you want, and I'll explain to you very carefully why it cannot be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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