Frakkon Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 There is any knowdlege if it works with gta iv? Its confirmed it works with all other previous gtas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatman455 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I don't think you need it with GTA 4. I noticed my sound was fine even though Alchemy is not engaged for GTA IV. As a rule, only use Alchemy if you are having problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it (not true politically). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meki Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 When you run the game in D3D10, Alchemy is not required. Since D3D10 has nothing more to do wirth DX9.0c and lower. Since this new shader-based architecure DirectSound is not implemented any more in this interface. Not just that: DirectSound does not exist anymore. It hase been changed by another API which is more better than DirectSound. So for any D3D10 game you dont need the DirectSound-Wrapper, thats what alchemy does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyphonPayne Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 When you run the game in D3D10, Alchemy is not required. Since D3D10 has nothing more to do wirth DX9.0c and lower. Since this new shader-based architecure DirectSound is not implemented any more in this interface. Not just that: DirectSound does not exist anymore. It hase been changed by another API which is more better than DirectSound. So for any D3D10 game you dont need the DirectSound-Wrapper, thats what alchemy does. Uh that's great and all... But GTA IV doesn't run in DX10!! Regardless, GTA IV uses OpenAL and not DirectSound therefore there is no need for Creative Alchemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meki Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) When you run the game in D3D10, Alchemy is not required. Since D3D10 has nothing more to do wirth DX9.0c and lower. Since this new shader-based architecure DirectSound is not implemented any more in this interface. Not just that: DirectSound does not exist anymore. It hase been changed by another API which is more better than DirectSound. So for any D3D10 game you dont need the DirectSound-Wrapper, thats what alchemy does. Uh that's great and all... But GTA IV doesn't run in DX10!! Regardless, GTA IV uses OpenAL and not DirectSound therefore there is no need for Creative Alchemy. No it doesnt, but GTA4 was already made for Vista, thats close to be the same. Maybe I am not perfect when I try to explain something, but english is not my native language. OpenAL is a result of the better made D3D10 API. So what depends on the sound I would say it runs a little bit in D3D10. If you really needs everything to be absolutely perfect, than please tell me what DX10 is?! Uuh... Once again: The OpenAL Wrapper Alchemy is made for older games using EAX effects. Since EAX wont work with OpenAL you need to have Alchemy for those games to recreate those sounds. Hope this works.... Edited January 20, 2009 by Meki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyphonPayne Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 When you run the game in D3D10, Alchemy is not required. Since D3D10 has nothing more to do wirth DX9.0c and lower. Since this new shader-based architecure DirectSound is not implemented any more in this interface. Not just that: DirectSound does not exist anymore. It hase been changed by another API which is more better than DirectSound. So for any D3D10 game you dont need the DirectSound-Wrapper, thats what alchemy does. Uh that's great and all... But GTA IV doesn't run in DX10!! Regardless, GTA IV uses OpenAL and not DirectSound therefore there is no need for Creative Alchemy. No it doesnt, but GTA4 was already made for Vista, thats close to be the same. Maybe I am not perfect when I try to explain something, but english is not my native language. OpenAL is a result of the better made D3D10 API. So what depends on the sound I would say it runs a little bit in D3D10. If you really needs everything to be absolutely perfect, than please tell me what DX10 is?! Uuh... Once again: The OpenAL Wrapper Alchemy is made for older games using EAX effects. Since EAX wont work with OpenAL you need to have Alchemy for those games to recreate those sounds. Hope this works.... OpenAL was being used in DX9 games since before DX10 was out, there is a difference. I wouldn't say OpenAL is a "result" of DX10 since it was out before DX10! It is already understood that Creative ALchemy makes DirectSound games work properly in Vista. Thank you for repeating my point. Once again, GTA IV does not need Creative ALchemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatman455 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Yes, you do not need Alchemy in DX10, and No GTA IV is NOT DX10. Regardless, you really only need alchemy with older EAX games. Modern developers don't use EAX because it is no longer supported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meki Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Mh, I dont knew that OpenAL was used in DirectX 9. I thought this has always been DirectSound instead. However, the point that you dont need Alchemy for GTA4 was understandable for anybody. edit: aaah OpenAL was part of OpenGL, not DirextX. Doesnt matter, but maybe someone like to know. Edited January 22, 2009 by Meki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frakkon Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 When you run the game in D3D10, Alchemy is not required. Since D3D10 has nothing more to do wirth DX9.0c and lower. Since this new shader-based architecure DirectSound is not implemented any more in this interface. Not just that: DirectSound does not exist anymore. It hase been changed by another API which is more better than DirectSound. So for any D3D10 game you dont need the DirectSound-Wrapper, thats what alchemy does. Have you smoked crack? What helll gta iv is dx9 !!!!!! ALso what hell shaders have to do with directsound3d????? Also i f*cking dont care what api is being used, i just want hardware accelerated audio to not process audio on cpu, just this. Newer games have native openAL support so its ok, i just dont know but i suspect gta iv uses some proprietary audio renderer like crysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTA_XP Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 When you run the game in D3D10, Alchemy is not required. Since D3D10 has nothing more to do wirth DX9.0c and lower. Since this new shader-based architecure DirectSound is not implemented any more in this interface. Not just that: DirectSound does not exist anymore. It hase been changed by another API which is more better than DirectSound. So for any D3D10 game you dont need the DirectSound-Wrapper, thats what alchemy does. Man, you need to stop with viagra pills and play GTA4! GTA4 is DX9 game and its have Games for Windows logo. So it can be played on XP and Vista. But XP have no DX10 so GTA4 never a DX10 game. ATI 1900 and 7900GTX are no DX10 cards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frakkon Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 When you run the game in D3D10, Alchemy is not required. Since D3D10 has nothing more to do wirth DX9.0c and lower. Since this new shader-based architecure DirectSound is not implemented any more in this interface. Not just that: DirectSound does not exist anymore. It hase been changed by another API which is more better than DirectSound. So for any D3D10 game you dont need the DirectSound-Wrapper, thats what alchemy does. Uh that's great and all... But GTA IV doesn't run in DX10!! Regardless, GTA IV uses OpenAL and not DirectSound therefore there is no need for Creative Alchemy. No it doesnt, but GTA4 was already made for Vista, thats close to be the same. Maybe I am not perfect when I try to explain something, but english is not my native language. OpenAL is a result of the better made D3D10 API. So what depends on the sound I would say it runs a little bit in D3D10. If you really needs everything to be absolutely perfect, than please tell me what DX10 is?! Uuh... Once again: The OpenAL Wrapper Alchemy is made for older games using EAX effects. Since EAX wont work with OpenAL you need to have Alchemy for those games to recreate those sounds. Hope this works.... NO !!! NO!! If you dont know what you say, just say nothing. First you confuses shaders with directsound (???), then you come with this.... Listen, Microsoft removed HAL on vista. So all sound is processed on software mode, and only use the codec on the audio card for analogic encoding. OPENAL is an open interface, let by CREATIVE to allow direct access to hardware sound. Microsoft HAS NOTHING TO DO with OpenAL. DX10 DOESNT OFFER ANY HARDWARE ACCELERATED AUDIO. There are 2 options: 1) Game is written to use openAL instead of DirectSound, so it have native hardware support 2) Game uses alchemy translating DLL to traduce directsound calls to OPENAL. So in the end ALL acelerated sound runs on OPENAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frakkon Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Yes, you do not need Alchemy in DX10, and No GTA IV is NOT DX10. Regardless, you really only need alchemy with older EAX games. Modern developers don't use EAX because it is no longer supported. Yeah yeah like the "old" Total war empire to be released, it will use the "old" EAX 5.0. Mean do you realize that OpenAL fully support EAX 5 just because Creative is the lead developer of Open AL? If an game have no OpenAL support it will not be hardware accelerated because the windows sound system on vista runs all on software at user mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meki Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 ALso what hell shaders have to do with directsound3d????? DirextX and DirectSound belong together, so they dont have anything to do with each other? I wanted to make a comparison. First I thought GTA uses the D3D10 API. When I have seen that I am wrong I have percieved that it made no difference for the question here asked, so I changed it to "made for Vista". I did not wanted to battle here around with terms and I dont acces to myself to know everything. I tried to answear the question someone had what I did well. Maybe the expanation was not best, but is this the base to insult me? .....crack....viagra.....pills..... But XP have no DX10 so GTA4 never a DX10 game I already know that now. But the fact that I did not knew which API GTA uses means not that I dont know what DX nor D3D10 does. (yeahr I really dont know that much, but you cannot know that just because I thought GTA uses D3D10 OPENAL is an open interface As the result I did not meant that Microsoft made OpenAL, I meant this is the result due to DirectSound is not implementable in in D3D10 thats why they did it this way. But it is really hard for me cause I am not that good in english so this is maybe hard for you to get what I want. Anyway. Anybody knows that GTA 4 does NOT need alchemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
METAL666 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 From my experience you don't need Alchemy for older games anymore, the newest drivers from creative.com restored all functions to my xfi sound card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frakkon Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) OPENAL is an open interface As the result I did not meant that Microsoft made OpenAL, I meant this is the result due to DirectSound is not implementable in in D3D10 thats why they did it this way. But it is really hard for me cause I am not that good in english so this is maybe hard for you to get what I want. Anyway. Anybody knows that GTA 4 does NOT need alchemy? From my experience you don't need Alchemy for older games anymore, the newest drivers from creative.com restored all functions to my xfi sound card. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAL http://www.guru3d.com/newsitem.php?id=4887 http://www.datalk.com/gaming-vista-directs...lease-t149.html OpenAL was originally developed by Loki Software in order to help them in their business of porting Windows games to Linux. After the demise of Loki, the project was maintained for a while by the free software/open source community — but it is now hosted (and largely developed) by Creative Technology with on-going support from Apple and free software/open source enthusiasts. Also any game "made for windows", vista, requires only audio. It wont matter if you run onboard audio or xi-fi, if it runs on directx mode it will be processed on software not hardware. Newer games are being released on OpenAl, which is native audio engine for x-fi. Alchemy is needed to run games with hardware support when on vista with directsound3d as sound engine. It wasnt that directsound3d wasnt being able to being implemented on vista. It was made that way because microsoft badly wanted to bundle DRM controls, so for ensure it they needed to run all sound code on software, so they could be sure it was being kept under drm restrictions. Edited January 22, 2009 by Frakkon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UndeadDevil Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 It wasnt that directsound3d wasnt being able to being implemented on vista. It was made that way because microsoft badly wanted to bundle DRM controls, so for ensure it they needed to run all sound code on software, so they could be sure it was being kept under drm restrictions. It is directly because of the Audio DRM, and its gone in Windows 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertz123 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) It is directly because of the Audio DRM, and its gone in Windows 7 hmm. nope. Edited January 22, 2009 by qwertz123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertz123 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) From my experience you don't need Alchemy for older games anymore, the newest drivers from creative.com restored all functions to my xfi sound card. please read this: There are 2 options: 1) Game is written to use openAL instead of DirectSound, so it have native hardware support 2) Game uses alchemy translating DLL to traduce directsound calls to OPENAL. eax calls -> alchemy software wrapper -> openal calls -> hardware output alchemy translates the dsound (eax) calls to openal calls. so what it basically does is "emulating" the hardware sound. though u'll get the eax4 or 5 effects the performance for hardware acceleration is kinda zero. only with the native openal api implemented you gain the full feature set of x-fi or audigy sound cards in vista. and btw: 90% of all games use either miles (software) or eax, and thats after two years of vista. openal support? would just be soooo nice.... Edited January 22, 2009 by qwertz123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertz123 Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) There is any knowdlege if it works with gta iv? Its confirmed it works with all other previous gtas. yes. set duration to 10 and the sound distortion is gone. be sure to run the gta4 launcher either with admin privileges or permit writes for the install folder of gta4 for the user account (if u have UAC enabled what u should of course) otherwise the dsound.log can't be created and gta crashes. Edited January 22, 2009 by qwertz123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelated Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Seriously, a quick Google search will give you the answer. Vista doesn't use directsound but it has little to do with the graphics API. Simply Google "directsound" and you will find a quick answer on why MS ditched directsound on vista and what replaced it. Hint: It wasn't OpenAL although it can be a one solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertz123 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH read and comprehend! directsound is still in vista. it just moved in the user mode out from the kernel mode like it was in xp. therefore HARDWARE ACCELERATED directsound (eax 4 and 5) is not viable. GEEZ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meki Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Thanks Pixelated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertz123 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 meki you'r the biggest fagot in the internet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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