Things that spoil GTA IV

[Wheelman]

To put things into perspective, I've always loved GTA. I've played every single one of them, and bought every single one of them too except GTA: London which I only played at a friend's house. GTA has given me so much enjoyment that I was once an administrator here, such was the fun I had with GTA. When IV was released on the PC and the majority of the community roared in anger at the state of it, I quietly got on with playing it, thinking that in most cases it was end user problems.

 

But as time has gone by, my goodwill towards GTA IV has dwindled, as problems and frustrations set in with what will surely go down as one of the biggest screw ups in pc gaming history. (After all, it takes some "special" skills to turn one of the most celebrated console releases into something that attracts headlines of derision in the gaming press when released on the PC). And I use the term "frustration" loosely. I mean it in the sense that you feel like screaming at the monitor, wondering what freak of nature decided that a certain feature was a good idea.

 

I'M NOT REFERRING TO THE STABILITY PROBLEMS, MEMORY LEAKS, OR GENERAL PERFORMANCE ISSUES IN THIS TOPIC. We know the game is a resource hog (contrary to Rockstar's pre-release claims), doesn't scale well (contrary to Rockstar's pre-release claims), and is ported so directly they didn't even think to remove the "saving, please do not turn off your system" messages (contrary to Rockstar's pre-release claims). Im talking about the things they did do in the game.

 

 

 

#1 THE POLICE

 

So, unique to the PC version is the ability to change the traffic density. When it was at the default, console-ish settings, I didn't notice any problems. When I turn it up for some extra realism, one thing in particular becomes very unrealistic: police cars EVERYWHERE. Barely a single traffic queue without a cop car (or four) in it. Am I right in suspecting that the cop cars are set to be X% of the vehicles on the road, but doubling the traffic density doesn't halve that percentage? You can't get moved for police.

 

I guess traffic density doesn't affect peds though - and boy are there police on foot, too. Again, way way too many except where you expect them like in certain locations and landmarks in Algonquin.

 

It's just rediculous. It ruins the fun. Why give us this huge sandbox of a city, make it so much more realistic than any other GTA game, then ruin it by swarming it with police everywhere? It's not as if the police are alerted to you (fair enough if you've just shot someone in the head in the street) and then head to your location - they're always ALREADY THERE. Every street corner has a cop on foot. Every traffic queue has cop cars (plural) in it. You jack a car, you're immediately wanted with a cop in chase. You punch someone, the omni present cop sees you. You plough through the traffic waiting at a junction, and you'll get wanted for striking the three police cars that were amongst the eight cars in the queue.

 

Another thing, why are the police levels the same everywhere? There's just as many cop cars driving around Bohan as there are around Grand Central in Algonquin. You'd think Bohan should have a feeling of lawlessness where cops fear to tread and getting into a gang shoot out means you aint gonna have the boys in blue coming to sort it out, and standing outside Grand Central you shouldn't dare sneeze.

 

 

#2 THE TRAFFIC

 

I've always found the traffic in GTA to be annoying. The way they deliberately change lanes in front of you was always an irritation, for the way it removed the skill of driving through traffic and turning it into a game of chance. GTA4 is much better in this regard, except for one chronic problem: the bridges. Why oh why oh why does the traffic all swerve lanes at once at a certain point on the bridges? Prescripted triggers for the traffic relative to the players speed & position = bad. Just model the traffic to drive normally, and let the player find their way around it all.

 

 

 

#3 SOCIAL CLUB

 

Quite possibly the single worst thing about GTAIV-PC. What does it do? What's it for? How does it benefit me? I suspect the real answer to the last question is: it doesn't. If you're going to inextricably link your biggest PC release for years to a program like RGSC, why can't I log in right now? Why, when log in fails, does it also forget my password? Why is it needed for multiplayer when all that is driven through the (equally sh*tty and also conceptually flawed) GFWL system? Why does the Social Club website refuse my login details from the RGSC application? Could the whole thing be any more sh*t or superfluous?

 

Either fix it (as in, make it unobtrusive and of value to the end user) or lose it altogether.

 

 

 

#4 THE MISSIONS

 

Creative department hungover on the mission design meeting, huh? Kill him, go there and kill him, kill that guy, go chase that guy for a bit and he'll lead you to someone you need to kill, kill this guy, kill that guy, oh and while you're there kill him too. Where's the variety? You almost know what's going to happen before you're asked to do it. Only a literal handful out of the hundreds of missions can I remember for being a bit different out of the "go from point A to point B and kill person C" logic.

 

Also, Rockstar, if you're going to use a certain action or activity as a trigger to move a mission on or start the next cutscene, make sure they still work if you accidentally deviate slightly from the path you expect players to take. In fact testing the missions at all would be a good idea, given that I'm stuck at the last mission with a serious bug in the controls. And even if it did work, why does a critical part of the final mission test my ability to button-mash, of all things? And don't make Niko's contacts phone Niko (or Niko phone them) the second a mission is over. What if I've accidentally acquired a 3-star wanted level just as the mission finishes? I've got the phone in one hand with some story dialogue going on that I should listen to, whilst I can't run, jump, or use a gun and get riddled with police bullets. Great.

 

Speaking of which...

 

 

 

#5 NIKO'S FRIENDS

 

Yes, it's great at the start of the game the way Niko's friends contact him, introduce him to places, etc. It's a great way of showing you round the city, the way things work, introducing new characters etc. But as you progress through the game and know what you're doing, did nobody at Rockstar ever think, "hmm, this could get seriously irritating having all these people call Niko every f*cking five minutes to go babysit them on some tedious activity that you've done several dozen times before"?

 

Evidently not.

 

 

 

Here's the deal, Rockstar. You fix this game (by which I mean, sort out the specific bugs and let me finish it. Everything else is just wishful thinking), and I'll probably buy your next one on the PC. If you don't, I won't.

[das joe]

word!

[gta-man22]

#4 THE MISSIONS

 

Creative department hungover on the mission design meeting, huh? Kill him, go there and kill him, kill that guy, go chase that guy for a bit and he'll lead you to someone you need to kill, kill this guy, kill that guy, oh and while you're there kill him too. Where's the variety? You almost know what's going to happen before you're asked to do it. Only a literal handful out of the hundreds of missions can I remember for being a bit different out of the "go from point A to point B and kill person C" logic.

 

Also, Rockstar, if you're going to use a certain action or activity as a trigger to move a mission on or start the next cutscene, make sure they still work if you accidentally deviate slightly from the path you expect players to take. In fact testing the missions at all would be a good idea, given that I'm stuck at the last mission with a serious bug in the controls. And even if it did work, why does a critical part of the final mission test my ability to button-mash, of all things? And don't make Niko's contacts phone Niko (or Niko phone them) the second a mission is over. What if I've accidentally acquired a 3-star wanted level just as the mission finishes? I've got the phone in one hand with some story dialogue going on that I should listen to, whilst I can't run, jump, or use a gun and get riddled with police bullets. Great.

You sir, are a Winrar.

[ShXIII]

You sir are one step ahead of me on the bitching list, I just wanted to play the f*cking game and couldn't even do that.

[High]

#3 SOCIAL CLUB

 

Could the whole thing be any more sh*t or superfluous?

 

 

no, the next step going worse then this is having an application that generate a foot that kicks you in the nuts.

[Powdinet]

I agree with everything but The Police part. It may be only me, but I actually don't see many cops walking around.

[Defuser]

I play with traffic density at 100. It turns into cop town!

[Bobby Budnick]

I really do not know how to express more agreement with this post.

 

Your ideas are intriguing, and I look forward to reading your newsletter.

[Disposable]

 

Nice post Wheelman, i agree with alot of what you said... you put it very well

[elBATCHo]

very nice

 

but I myself dont find cops as often as you say, rarely do i get wanted level for stealing a car off the street or from a ped. just choose wisely, if theres a cop nearby chillax or go jack another car

[OverTheBelow]

#3 SOCIAL CLUB

 

Could the whole thing be any more sh*t or superfluous?

 

 

no, the next step going worse then this is having an application that generate a foot that kicks you in the nuts.

i lol'd

[juscal]

 

#1 THE POLICE

 

So, unique to the PC version is the ability to change the traffic density. When it was at the default, console-ish settings, I didn't notice any problems. When I turn it up for some extra realism, one thing in particular becomes very unrealistic: police cars EVERYWHERE. Barely a single traffic queue without a cop car (or four) in it. Am I right in suspecting that the cop cars are set to be X% of the vehicles on the road, but doubling the traffic density doesn't halve that percentage? You can't get moved for police.

 

I guess traffic density doesn't affect peds though - and boy are there police on foot, too. Again, way way too many except where you expect them like in certain locations and landmarks in Algonquin.

 

It's just rediculous. It ruins the fun. Why give us this huge sandbox of a city, make it so much more realistic than any other GTA game, then ruin it by swarming it with police everywhere? It's not as if the police are alerted to you (fair enough if you've just shot someone in the head in the street) and then head to your location - they're always ALREADY THERE. Every street corner has a cop on foot. Every traffic queue has cop cars (plural) in it. You jack a car, you're immediately wanted with a cop in chase. You punch someone, the omni present cop sees you. You plough through the traffic waiting at a junction, and you'll get wanted for striking the three police cars that were amongst the eight cars in the queue.

 

Another thing, why are the police levels the same everywhere? There's just as many cop cars driving around Bohan as there are around Grand Central in Algonquin. You'd think Bohan should have a feeling of lawlessness where cops fear to tread and getting into a gang shoot out means you aint gonna have the boys in blue coming to sort it out, and standing outside Grand Central you shouldn't dare sneeze.

 

Indeed. The police density should be locked to a certain value, rather than the game being set as a certain percentage of all vehicles are police. I set the Vehicle Density to 100 most of the time. If i accidentally run over a police officer or something, five or so police cars pop up on my radar.

 

 

#2 THE TRAFFIC

 

I've always found the traffic in GTA to be annoying. The way they deliberately change lanes in front of you was always an irritation, for the way it removed the skill of driving through traffic and turning it into a game of chance. GTA4 is much better in this regard, except for one chronic problem: the bridges. Why oh why oh why does the traffic all swerve lanes at once at a certain point on the bridges? Prescripted triggers for the traffic relative to the players speed & position = bad. Just model the traffic to drive normally, and let the player find their way around it all.

 

 

Oh hell, I remember that. Especially in GTA San Andreas. Speeding down the highway like a bat out of hell with 5 stars, go to pass someone, and they change lanes, either infront of you, behind you, or right into you. Occasionally they might even pull a PIT manuver and f*ck you up.

 

In the next GTA I hope to see a more realistic driving engine (not the bloody motor) so cars will indicate before changing lanes so you can either floor it or brake. Even if they drive along where they're programed to go along their precoded route, and they indicate like they already do before turning.

 

I would also like to see cars drive around me if I'm stopped. Not stop for 30 seconds, before turning agressive and driving around me like an idiot.

 

 

#3 SOCIAL CLUB

 

Quite possibly the single worst thing about GTAIV-PC. What does it do? What's it for? How does it benefit me? I suspect the real answer to the last question is: it doesn't. If you're going to inextricably link your biggest PC release for years to a program like RGSC, why can't I log in right now? Why, when log in fails, does it also forget my password? Why is it needed for multiplayer when all that is driven through the (equally sh*tty and also conceptually flawed) GFWL system? Why does the Social Club website refuse my login details from the RGSC application? Could the whole thing be any more sh*t or superfluous?

 

Either fix it (as in, make it unobtrusive and of value to the end user) or lose it altogether.

 

The Social Club app is useless. Nuf said.

 

 

#4 THE MISSIONS

 

Creative department hungover on the mission design meeting, huh? Kill him, go there and kill him, kill that guy, go chase that guy for a bit and he'll lead you to someone you need to kill, kill this guy, kill that guy, oh and while you're there kill him too. Where's the variety? You almost know what's going to happen before you're asked to do it. Only a literal handful out of the hundreds of missions can I remember for being a bit different out of the "go from point A to point B and kill person C" logic.

 

Also, Rockstar, if you're going to use a certain action or activity as a trigger to move a mission on or start the next cutscene, make sure they still work if you accidentally deviate slightly from the path you expect players to take. In fact testing the missions at all would be a good idea, given that I'm stuck at the last mission with a serious bug in the controls. And even if it did work, why does a critical part of the final mission test my ability to button-mash, of all things? And don't make Niko's contacts phone Niko (or Niko phone them) the second a mission is over. What if I've accidentally acquired a 3-star wanted level just as the mission finishes? I've got the phone in one hand with some story dialogue going on that I should listen to, whilst I can't run, jump, or use a gun and get riddled with police bullets. Great.

 

 

I'm pretty sure when most missions end they remove the wanted level you may have obtained during the mission. But yeah, I hate when people ring at the most inconvienient f*cking time.

 

 

#5 NIKO'S FRIENDS

 

Yes, it's great at the start of the game the way Niko's friends contact him, introduce him to places, etc. It's a great way of showing you round the city, the way things work, introducing new characters etc. But as you progress through the game and know what you're doing, did nobody at Rockstar ever think, "hmm, this could get seriously irritating having all these people call Niko every f*cking five minutes to go babysit them on some tedious activity that you've done several dozen times before"?

 

Evidently not.

 

 

"Hey cousin, it's your cousin. Let go play pool"

 

Hey Roman. f*ck off. I'm busy.

 

And the annoying part is if you decline to do whatever, then you get a thumbs down from them.

 

Haven't you got a cab depo to run? Oh, haha. That's right.

[squinty]

and another thing with the friends phoning Nico is they always call you when miles away from their location and your left struggling to get there within a hour which gets more thumbs down

[Rachinator]

Sir. I tip my hat off to you. I may love GTAIV but the reason my hat comes off is because... you didnt once mention "This was in GTA:SA" thats when a IV talk becomes a bitchy 'i want parachute' fest. So thank you for making a valid argument that doesnt resort to GTA:SA.

[PacMaan]

Tru

[Inline6]

"and is ported so directly they didn't even think to remove the "saving, please do not turn off your system" messages"

 

That is hilarious.

[reefer191]

and another thing with the friends phoning Nico is they always call you when miles away from their location and your left struggling to get there within a hour which gets more thumbs down

Get a taxi

[GTAMonkey2012]

You can silence the phone in the phone options, but again I agree that calls can get annoying later on with a list of friends. That said, if you ignore them you simply get less likes or respected and that just means you don't get there ability at a likable percentage, if you can live with that, let the damn phone ring!

 

You can as said get taxi's and press enter to speed things up.

 

I agree on social club as that's something you want later not right away so I understand its not useful especially needing it to get into the game (and deffo when your new to it all).

 

As regards cops, I see you point but I use "simple native trainer" ... so no more cops when I don't need them

 

 

There's just as many cop cars driving around Bohan as there are around Grand Central in Algonquin. You'd think Bohan should have a feeling of lawlessness where cops fear to tread and getting into a gang shoot out means you aint gonna have the boys in blue coming to sort it out, and standing outside Grand Central you shouldn't dare sneeze.

 

... I think mods may sort this out so get some requests in

 

As regards missions, I kind of agree, and then think .. well isnt that GTA all over? I actually like them becuase now the cut scenes are so much better and worth watching so im say 30 percent agree and the rest im happy with. I find the missions do match the story in terms of underworld in the city with dodgy dealing etc so its all good for me.

 

The traffic I agree on bridges 100 percent, to the point that I see that as a bug. Elsewhere I think its pretty good for AI standards even at 100 percent density with general traffic, Id say slow down and use a 360 controller to dodge an weave.

Edited January 20, 2009 by GTAMonkey2012

[jjcoolj91]

Yeah but one thing that put GTA IV back to the top was the modding, it opened up many things and new ideas that couldnt be fully achieved with the GTA III era

[TygerGoose]

Nice one. But in my own experience accepting the invitation to go drinking/whoring/darting and whatnot and immediately calling them back to cancel plans doesn't seem to result in the thumbs down. But I don't really care about the special abilities that friends can bring you in the game. I'd rather wreak havoc or just drive around looking for pigeons!

[nvr2fst]

I like when the cars swerve in front of me. It keeps me on my toes. I am always waiting for it so I can make a fast decision, like what would be the best action to take to either avoid them or hit them in the correct spot to move them out of my way and allow me to keep up as much of my momentum as possible.

 

After a while you should get used to it.

 

I wish there were more aggresive drivers in the game. You know the ones that if you bump them they turn on you.

I havent come across much of that in 4.

 

 

But that is just me.

 

 

Nothing worse to me than a predictable game.

[mkey82]

How come there are no R* lovers in this thread? Everybody is agreeing, what's up with that?

 

Also, the "app that generates the foot that kicks you in the nuts" very funny. If anyone can do it, R can.

 

Second also, the one point wheelman didn't touch (directly). Not only the missions are repetitive, but they are to much railroaded. There are not a lot of options to get the same thing done. I really miss this from previous GTA's.

Edited January 20, 2009 by mkey82

[Mafio$o]

You are right, wheelmal , but it isnt full list.

 

GTA 4 has another really annoying problem. It is saving own created video to hdd - we have to wait a very long time doing nothing and watching black screen. We even cant minimize the game and exit to windows to do smth else while video are encoding.

 

Very uncomfortable system of entering the game. Why do we need this f**kin Games for Windows Live , RGSC , Internet registration and internet connectin if we want to play only single game yet? And why we need internet to save the game? It would be better if registration start when we enter multiplayer.

Why you cant make lan and multiplayer like it was in gta1 for example. It was without any "games for dos live". We just chose multiplayer and start play immediately.

 

GFWL dont support Russia. In cause of it many russians cant play multiplayer.

 

And where is the gloves ???

 

In spite of all, you have made an excellent game (as usual) , Rockstar , thank you very much !

Everything is super in this game , except the port, GFWL and some small mistakes.

[copperwire93]

Agreed the mission is repetitive just like farcry 2. The storyline also a little bit boring, what the true aim for niko for being in liberty city? be a government dog? he should be a real playa, take over the city crime like CJ.

[Girish]

Agreed the mission is repetitive just like farcry 2. The storyline also a little bit boring, what the true aim for niko for being in liberty city? be a government dog? he should be a real playa, take over the city crime like CJ.

Sorry, but this is where you're wrong. He's not there to take over the streets and become a mafia king. Did you forget he's there to find a special someone?

 

You're just blatantly trying to equate one GTA with another. SA had a different purpose; this new Liberty City has a different purpose.

[mkey82]

You're just blatantly trying to equate one GTA with another. SA had a different purpose; this new Liberty City has a different purpose.

If this is so, why is Niko killing all those mobsters? If they wanted to assign him less important role, then he should really have to take care of least important stuff while struggling for cash and so on. But this isn't the case.

 

If you are looking for that special someone, does it imply that you need to bring LC crime underworld to it's knees?

[jesushumper]

The opnly thing that ruins any aspect of the PC version for me is coming here tpo see peopel whinging about performance and crying that it's a poro port.

 

I must have incredible luck.

 

I've had ONE crash in 80 hours of gameplay.

 

It looks awesome.

 

Controls are good.

 

No glitchy shadows.

 

Good performance, considering how it looks and the recommended specs.

 

MP works.

 

Mods work.

 

I've had ZERO probl;ems with the game.

 

The only thing i do not like is having to use GFWL and RGSC. But thsoe are not part of the game itself.

 

Far as teh game itself goes, i miss a few features from other game, such as skill-building, rapages, and more jumps would ahve been nice. However, the inclusion of slick phyiscs adn great game detail trump those minor disappointments.

 

Great, now i want to go play. Thanks a bunch

[Girish]

You're just blatantly trying to equate one GTA with another. SA had a different purpose; this new Liberty City has a different purpose.

If this is so, why is Niko killing all those mobsters? If they wanted to assign him less important role, then he should really have to take care of least important stuff while struggling for cash and so on. But this isn't the case.

 

If you are looking for that special someone, does it imply that you need to bring LC crime underworld to it's knees?

Maybe you're looking at the game from a different perspective because I'm only 3-4 missions away from finishing the game and so far, I haven't got an inch of the feeling that Niko's brought the crime world down to its knees.

 

Are you trying to say that since Niko is here to look for someone, he should just find that someone and leave? Dude, it's a game and in order to find that someone he has to pull a few strings here and there, thus, the missions. Makes perfect sense to me. For me, the game never once seemed like Niko was trying to take control of the city. It all seemed personal.

 

But that's just my honest opinion of the game and the way I see it so far. You can choose to disagree.

[mkey82]

 

No glitchy shadows.

On what res would that be?

 

 

For me, the game never once seemed like Niko was trying to take control of the city

Rightly you say, it doesn't. Simply because Niko is not interested in taking over stuff people leave behind. And this would be perfectly fine, but what boggles me how can you kill some crucial gangsters and not have to suffer (almost) any consequences.

 

While Tommy was the king of the city, I didn't have that feeling about CJ. He however, DID take over some business, he cleaned up his hood (more or less), killed some stoolies and it all got wrapped up nicely. You had something to spend money on and the only problem in the whole scenario being those bet shop where you could make tons of money so it made actual cash seem less important.

 

Anyway, I'm derailing. I just want to say that I'm not a big fan of this supposed "rags to better rags" thing. It doesn't fit in that well for me.

[W1ckeD-]

#4 THE MISSIONS

 

Creative department hungover on the mission design meeting, huh? Kill him, go there and kill him, kill that guy, go chase that guy for a bit and he'll lead you to someone you need to kill, kill this guy, kill that guy, oh and while you're there kill him too. Where's the variety? You almost know what's going to happen before you're asked to do it. Only a literal handful out of the hundreds of missions can I remember for being a bit different out of the "go from point A to point B and kill person C" logic.

 

Also, Rockstar, if you're going to use a certain action or activity as a trigger to move a mission on or start the next cutscene, make sure they still work if you accidentally deviate slightly from the path you expect players to take. In fact testing the missions at all would be a good idea, given that I'm stuck at the last mission with a serious bug in the controls. And even if it did work, why does a critical part of the final mission test my ability to button-mash, of all things? And don't make Niko's contacts phone Niko (or Niko phone them) the second a mission is over. What if I've accidentally acquired a 3-star wanted level just as the mission finishes? I've got the phone in one hand with some story dialogue going on that I should listen to, whilst I can't run, jump, or use a gun and get riddled with police bullets. Great.

You sir, are a Winrar.

Yeah , that part is the best, great story man, nice read.

Thanks!