CharmingCharlie Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Vert101 it doesn't matter how wonderful and marvellous the developers of Sins of the solar empire are or how philanthropic and tree hugging they are when it comes to people stealing software, last time I checked they aren't doing GTA 4. As far as I am aware stardock have never spent 4 years and nearly 100 million dollars on producing a game. I would bet my arse if they did spend 100 million and 4 years developing a game they wouldn't be so "understanding" of people nicking their software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruXter Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I think the thing that hurt this game release the most, was the people here. Some exaggerated the extent of the issues, and some just ragged on it because they had fun flaming threads. others, well others had legit issues but didn't realize what was going on, so they just got angrier as the trolls urged them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 The point that was made in that thread is relevant to the PC gaming industry. And it is also relevant to this thread. People who love good games; a lot of the time will buy them. PC gamers generally don't like half assed pirated copies of any game if they can afford to buy the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Yeah that is why GTA 4 for the PC was pirated in record numbers before there was even a working crack or before people even knew there were problems. That is ample proof that "people who love good games buy them"..... not. The fact is if they can get it for free then the majority of PC gamers these days will even forego things like MP just to avoid paying for the game. Still I get the feeling the problem will solve itself soon enough, the PC is becoming less and less of a platform for developers and we will be stuck with fantastic ground breaking games like "crayon physics deluxe" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) GTA4 was also a game that was returned through Steam in record numbers. Those people obviously bought the game in the first place. They can't all be pirates. And I'm not saying that GTA4 is a bad game... it's a great game. It has fun factor, but it should have been released a bit later, and optimised a little more for PC. With a few more patches I think that this game may start to sell a bit more for the PC. It won't be in the same bracket as games being sold on console. But it will sell better with more optimization. And less DRM. Those are my thoughts anyway. Edited January 20, 2009 by Vert101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm47 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The PC format got a kick in the balls a couple of times but it's far from dead. If I was Rock*, I would stop giving port jobs to Toronto & start giving to other studios. Australia's first Ford cars were from canada & they were sh*t. We built it ourselves it's much better. I'm barely enjoying this game on 2 Athlon X2 PCs on even LAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo1508 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 "Sins popped up as the #1 best selling game at retail a couple weeks ago, a game that has no copy protect whatsoever, that should tell you that piracy is not the primary issue." Yeah its a great article vert, and written by people who care about the comunity and there customers and as you can see are making good money from it. Rockstar just doesnt give a sh*t, no forums, no feedback, no communication, nothing. Cost to build gta 4 - 100,000,000 Cost of drm - $200,000 Cost to dl by Torrent with cracked exe - PRICELESS hahaha owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrati0nal Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I didn't pay for something that is "broken" I paid for a game that has given me well over a month's enjoyment and I continue to enjoy it to this day. You just stole software and choose to blame Rockstar for everything. Why are you even here at a GTA fan forum ? If you are happy to steal their software that doesn't make you much of a fan. Yeah, it works for you. But it doesn't seem like everyone's as lucky as you are. I think that's a classic case of bad port: Works well for some, bad for others. Anyway, why am I here? That's simple: I'm waiting for them to fix the game up enough to make it playable. So meanwhile, I can view those threads about fooling the game's graphics scaling abilities to get more FPS, and seeing people be called idiots because they complain about the performance without having quad core processors. Also, blaming Rockstar for everything? I'm blaming them for one thing: Bad performance. Come to think of it, also the whole thing about ignoring the community, so that's two. In the end, I guess it's kind of subjective what a "fan" is. Of course it would be nice if everyone bought something without trying it first, but it doesn't really work like that... I agree with you, I purchased the game, but I am no longer a fan due to the fact that how much a had to go through to actually play it (5 re-installs, 3 repairs), yet to be ignored and still have other issues. I should have received a working and problem free game, I did not and therefore am trying to fix it as I enjoy it WHEN IT WORKS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaCkOX Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Thats the point. Your [email protected] should smash this game. Youve upgraded your pc because the game is still optimized for a console. Rockstar being lazy and you have spent more $ on unecsary hardware. You wouldnt need a quad to run this IF it was polished. id call it a downgrade as i bought the e8400 after but i do agree with you on that. the q8200 should see more buyers for this game in my opinion and i really think that right now people start coughing up on this game as the reccesion might kill off any future games from R* People did cough up for this game... a lot of people. But a lot of those people sent it back when they found out that it was not playable. Piracy is a not a major factor to poor sales on the PC. Poor optimisation, lack of customer support, and insane DRM measures are though I think. What the heck are you talking about? People can't "send it back" after coming to that realization. By the time they're capable of finding that out, they've opened the box and voided all chances of receiving a refund. If games weren't immune from being returned for refunds due to that kind of thing, beleive me publishers wouldn't be cutting so many corners like they're doing currently. It would actually affect their sales figures, instead of just hurting their public image. Shareholders can't see a quantification of how distrusted the company is, but they can certainly see quarterly sales reports. Publishers allow games with these problems to be pushed out in this state precisely because they know the customer has zero recourse upon discovering what they've purchased. Umm... correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Steam offer a full refund to customers that bought GTA4 from their server, for the first time in recorded history? Even at the games store that I frequent, they have a return policy for about 6 days. So yes... people did send it back. And I personally have returned defective games to the store, in the past if they did not work. Steam refunding for the first time ever says it all. BAD GAME. I certainly tried to refund it but because i had opened the box they wouldnt except itat my local harvey norman. Where's the info for steam refunding? I asked them and they denied me, I threatened them with BBB and they didn't care. Is there something now for refunding the game? Because it is the worst piece of sh*t and the DRM is worthless, ya worthless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruXter Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 GTA4 was also a game that was returned through Steam in record numbers. Those people obviously bought the game in the first place. They can't all be pirates. And I'm not saying that GTA4 is a bad game... it's a great game. It has fun factor, but it should have been released a bit later, and optimised a little more for PC. With a few more patches I think that this game may start to sell a bit more for the PC. It won't be in the same bracket as games being sold on console. But it will sell better with more optimization. And less DRM. Those are my thoughts anyway. Prove it. show me the numbers. There was a thread started saying steam gives refunds, giving a link to a blog that said the same thing, but no where in the site did it show you that you could get a refund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 ZaCkoX I'm sorry that Steam didn't refund the game for you. It was based on a case by case system. You can either wait for more patches for GTA4 or you could never buy games through steam again. It's totally up to you. But it's not my problem. Don't even think about pinning this on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceLongstiff Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The PC gaming hardware market is worth $20 billion and expected to grow to $34 billion by 2012. PC gaming is worth $25 billion. The PC gaming industry is just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 The PC gaming hardware market is worth $20 billion and expected to grow to $34 billion by 2012. PC gaming is worth $25 billion. The PC gaming industry is just fine. Yeah I know... it just depends on which companies are going to support their product for the PC as to how well they sell. And they will sell... trust me. It just takes a bit more time and care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruXter Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The PC gaming hardware market is worth $20 billion and expected to grow to $34 billion by 2012. PC gaming is worth $25 billion. The PC gaming industry is just fine. On that note. We know why gtaiv was bundled so damn bloated. Been waiting for it. I LOVE GTAIV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For pc of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 The PC gaming hardware market is worth $20 billion and expected to grow to $34 billion by 2012. PC gaming is worth $25 billion. The PC gaming industry is just fine. On that note. We know why gtaiv was bundled so damn bloated. Been waiting for it. I LOVE GTAIV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For pc of course. yeah man... playing GTA4 on PC is the only way to play it in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo1508 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 GTA4 was also a game that was returned through Steam in record numbers. Those people obviously bought the game in the first place. They can't all be pirates. And I'm not saying that GTA4 is a bad game... it's a great game. It has fun factor, but it should have been released a bit later, and optimised a little more for PC. With a few more patches I think that this game may start to sell a bit more for the PC. It won't be in the same bracket as games being sold on console. But it will sell better with more optimization. And less DRM. Those are my thoughts anyway. Prove it. show me the numbers. There was a thread started saying steam gives refunds, giving a link to a blog that said the same thing, but no where in the site did it show you that you could get a refund. Well obviously issue people where having where in record numbers seeing as steam have offered to refund on a case by case basis for the first time EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Yeah HARDWARE last time I checked software developers don't get any money from HARDWARE. Now you may argue why are people buying $34 billion in hardware ? Probably so they can play the games without paying for them. Now despite those impressively sounding numbers we have sod all PC developers left even Valve a "supposed" PC developer is multi platform......... man you got to love the confidence there. The only major developer left that still is a PC developer is of course Blizzard and I have seen enough rumours and rumblings that they might go multi platform as well. Now of course there are other reasons why a developer would go multi-platform aside from bad sales. However someone is bullsh*tting, if the PC is such a fantastically profitable platform to develop on then where the hell are the developers ? Why did Crytek throw in the towel after Crysis ? Why is ID on record as saying it will stay multi-platform principally because of piracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Yeah HARDWARE last time I checked software developers don't get any money from HARDWARE. Now you may argue why are people buying $34 billion in hardware ? Probably so they can play the games without paying for them. Now despite those impressively sounding numbers we have sod all PC developers left even Valve a "supposed" PC developer is multi platform......... man you got to love the confidence there. The only major developer left that still is a PC developer is of course Blizzard and I have seen enough rumours and rumblings that they might go multi platform as well. Now of course there are other reasons why a developer would go multi-platform aside from bad sales. However someone is bullsh*tting, if the PC is such a fantastically profitable platform to develop on then where the hell are the developers ? Why did Crytek throw in the towel after Crysis ? Why is ID on record as saying it will stay multi-platform principally because of piracy. Man I can see you love PC games hey I think you hate the idea that devs will move all future products to console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruXter Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 GTA4 was also a game that was returned through Steam in record numbers. Those people obviously bought the game in the first place. They can't all be pirates. And I'm not saying that GTA4 is a bad game... it's a great game. It has fun factor, but it should have been released a bit later, and optimised a little more for PC. With a few more patches I think that this game may start to sell a bit more for the PC. It won't be in the same bracket as games being sold on console. But it will sell better with more optimization. And less DRM. Those are my thoughts anyway. Prove it. show me the numbers. There was a thread started saying steam gives refunds, giving a link to a blog that said the same thing, but no where in the site did it show you that you could get a refund. Well obviously issue people where having where in record numbers seeing as steam have offered to refund on a case by case basis for the first time EVER. No really, what I meant is, SHOW ME PROOF OF THEM REFUNDING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 GTA4 was also a game that was returned through Steam in record numbers. Those people obviously bought the game in the first place. They can't all be pirates. And I'm not saying that GTA4 is a bad game... it's a great game. It has fun factor, but it should have been released a bit later, and optimised a little more for PC. With a few more patches I think that this game may start to sell a bit more for the PC. It won't be in the same bracket as games being sold on console. But it will sell better with more optimization. And less DRM. Those are my thoughts anyway. Prove it. show me the numbers. There was a thread started saying steam gives refunds, giving a link to a blog that said the same thing, but no where in the site did it show you that you could get a refund. Well obviously issue people where having where in record numbers seeing as steam have offered to refund on a case by case basis for the first time EVER. No really, what I meant is, SHOW ME PROOF OF THEM REFUNDING. Maybe you should ask someone that got their game refunded through steam. I didn't get mine through steam but I had the option of taking it back or keeping it. I kept it. It runs ok on my system. But that being said, my system is way over the minimum requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo1508 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Console games are just as easily pirated imo. You make it sound like the pc gaming industry will kick the bucket in 3 or 4 years, which is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunk Russian 9 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 If Rockstar really wanted to cut down on piracy, the first thing they would do is release a demo. Half the people who pirate games do it just to see whether they like the game mechanics and how it runs on their machine. You spend $50 dollars just to figure out the game is sh*t, and you can't get a refund because of the nature of PC gaming. Whoopty-f*ckin-doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruXter Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 No really, what I meant is, SHOW ME PROOF OF THEM REFUNDING. Maybe you should ask someone that got their game refunded through steam. I didn't get mine through steam but I had the option of taking it back or keeping it. I kept it. It runs ok on my system. But that being said, my system is way over the minimum requirements. I have googled it like crazy, Ihave only found rumors with nothing to prove. best I found was a response from steam saying they never give refunds. http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2402/st...impissedfi9.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceLongstiff Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Yeah HARDWARE last time I checked software developers don't get any money from HARDWARE. Now you may argue why are people buying $34 billion in hardware ? Probably so they can play the games without paying for them. Now despite those impressively sounding numbers we have sod all PC developers left even Valve a "supposed" PC developer is multi platform......... man you got to love the confidence there. The only major developer left that still is a PC developer is of course Blizzard and I have seen enough rumours and rumblings that they might go multi platform as well. Now of course there are other reasons why a developer would go multi-platform aside from bad sales. However someone is bullsh*tting, if the PC is such a fantastically profitable platform to develop on then where the hell are the developers ? Why did Crytek throw in the towel after Crysis ? Why is ID on record as saying it will stay multi-platform principally because of piracy. I thought I'd let you work that out for yourself, and you almost did Charlie. My point is that without games to play, people won't buy the hardware. And since experts predict the hardware market will virtually double in the next two years, they know that the games will be there to drive that growth. People aren't just going to spend more and more money on hardware to play crappy games. They won't even be spending it on hardware to play games that they already have. They'll be upgrading for the games which will be coming out over the next 3-4 years. Don't bother arguing with financial analysts. They don't earn million-dollar bonuses for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 nah the PC gaming industry isn't going to die very soon. It's just a few devs that will. We'll be right Jack We just have to consider which games we buy in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceLongstiff Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Yeah, and the ones that don't make it will be the ones whose games aren't worth buying anyway. So screw 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo1508 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 GTA4 was also a game that was returned through Steam in record numbers. Those people obviously bought the game in the first place. They can't all be pirates. And I'm not saying that GTA4 is a bad game... it's a great game. It has fun factor, but it should have been released a bit later, and optimised a little more for PC. With a few more patches I think that this game may start to sell a bit more for the PC. It won't be in the same bracket as games being sold on console. But it will sell better with more optimization. And less DRM. Those are my thoughts anyway. Prove it. show me the numbers. There was a thread started saying steam gives refunds, giving a link to a blog that said the same thing, but no where in the site did it show you that you could get a refund. Well obviously issue people where having where in record numbers seeing as steam have offered to refund on a case by case basis for the first time EVER. No really, what I meant is, SHOW ME PROOF OF THEM REFUNDING. who are you? Google it yourself SHOW ME PROOF OF THEM NOT REFUNDING hahaha There are threads on the gamespot forum about people getting steam refunds. Apparantly you can still play it using the .exe in the common folder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo1508 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 No really, what I meant is, SHOW ME PROOF OF THEM REFUNDING. Maybe you should ask someone that got their game refunded through steam. I didn't get mine through steam but I had the option of taking it back or keeping it. I kept it. It runs ok on my system. But that being said, my system is way over the minimum requirements. I have googled it like crazy, Ihave only found rumors with nothing to prove. best I found was a response from steam saying they never give refunds. http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2402/st...impissedfi9.jpg http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/43399/Gr...To-Get-A-Refund Is your google not working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) No really, what I meant is, SHOW ME PROOF OF THEM REFUNDING. Maybe you should ask someone that got their game refunded through steam. I didn't get mine through steam but I had the option of taking it back or keeping it. I kept it. It runs ok on my system. But that being said, my system is way over the minimum requirements. I have googled it like crazy, Ihave only found rumors with nothing to prove. best I found was a response from steam saying they never give refunds. http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2402/st...impissedfi9.jpg http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/43399/Gr...To-Get-A-Refund Is your google not working? ok is there anyone in this forum that has recieved a full refund from steam? And yes I am Google itself. Please respond. Just to get these people off my back. All that I was saying was; I had the option to return the game within 6 days of my purchase, I did not return it. This does not make me a criminal FFS. If you did not have that option maybe you should talk to consumer affairs or somebody that gives a f*ck. Because like I said before it is not my problem... this is your baggage baby. Edited January 20, 2009 by Vert101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaCkOX Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 No really, what I meant is, SHOW ME PROOF OF THEM REFUNDING. Maybe you should ask someone that got their game refunded through steam. I didn't get mine through steam but I had the option of taking it back or keeping it. I kept it. It runs ok on my system. But that being said, my system is way over the minimum requirements. I have googled it like crazy, Ihave only found rumors with nothing to prove. best I found was a response from steam saying they never give refunds. http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2402/st...impissedfi9.jpg http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/43399/Gr...To-Get-A-Refund Is your google not working? Man whoever made that was bullsh*tting. No you can't get a refund regardless. When you buy the game you sign a contract saying you can't refund it. I tried over and over. That page is crap, even read the comments. I went through the same sh*t. Steam won't refund. I asked other friends they got the same problem. Support ticket comes up with Steam saying they will not refund you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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