chngdman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I'll pay. Because of a thing called Morals. I don't know about you guys, but for me, R* has breathed new life into piracy. They have put it in the open - put pirates on trial in front of their peers - I like what they did to circumvent it, because people may have even cracked that, but there still is a person on here often enough for us to point out as a thief and laugh at, and for me, that's a revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frequenco Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Is piracy the reason behind the poor sales of GTA4? No! Releasing unfinished games kills the PC gaming industry. + eg: Microsoft Windows would NEVER had any market-penetration rates of 90% without piracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chngdman Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Microsoft likes piracy. They allow it in order to convert people to sales, you are very correct. But to be fair, Linux never had a chance against a commercial product... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Piracy is not killing the PC gaming industry. The 360 has almost equal amount of piracy as PC. And I'm sure PS3 piracy will get more widespread if more and more consoles are sold. And don't even get me started on PS2 piracy . I think the reason why some developers don't release games for PC is because PC gamers have higher standards than console gamers and because its easier and cheaper to develop for something like a 360 or PS3 because their hardware does not vary from console to console like PC specs vary from PC to PC. About the high standards, console gamers would have lower standards for a game than PC gamers because console games don't really offer the freedom that PC games offer. For example, soime PC gamers would complain if a specific game does not allow very high resolutions like 2560X1600 or 16X MSAA. This would lead to the company having to implement what users want in a patch of some sort to keep their customers happy. But console gamers can't really complain about anything like this and so have to live with what's offered to them. So this means less money is spent on hiring people for technical support. Still though, PC gaming won't EVER die. Its still one of the major platforms even with its piracy and I'm pretty sure PC hardware companies would lose a lot of their sales if PC gaming was stopped completely. Just my two cents . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kormgar Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Hey I'm not here defending R*. What I'm saying is that their behaviour and their method of release to the PC gaming communtity is going to cause a lot of distrust towards themselves. And this being said... will it cause the average PC gamer to view any future release of theirs with scorn? If nobody is going to buy it... then why not pirate it? If it's just another piece of XBOX 360 ported piece of crap, then hey... why not? I think that they are supporting piracy, more than they are supporting the honest PC Gamer, who will buy their product, if it is reasonable, and playable. Amazingly enough... PC gamers actually buy games... like I said before... we are not all pirates... stop treating us as such I despise piracy of any currently published titles (I do allow a bit of gray wiggle-room for "abandonware" though). If a game is good enough to be worth my time then the developers deserve to be rewarded for their efforts. Unfortunately, companies like Rockstar don't always make it easy. Instead of thanking us for buying their game they decided to treat us like suspected criminals and shovel three layers of DRM on us (SecureRom, Social Club, and Games for Windows). There's been plenty posted about that trifecta of doom and the problems that they've caused for many gamers so I won't go into it, but let's just say that a huge number of headaches could have been easily avoided if Rockstar hadn't decided to act like a pack of unwiped *ss-h*l*s. It didn't help though. Cracks abound...and they completely bypass securerom, social club, and games for windows. So the actual thieves end up with a better, more stable product and the paying customers get to hold a giant turd filled sandwich. But no, piracy isn't responsible for the poor sales of GTA IV. Piss-poor word of mouth and horrible online reviews of this botched pc-port are to blame for that. The lesson is simple...if you want people to pay for your product then first release a solid product. If you want sales to suffer, put your C-list team on a poorly planned rush job that must ship for the holidays no matter what and then load it down with intrusive DRM that will anger your customers before they even get to play the game. Oh...then send out a press release telling us how great your game will run on "future systems" when it doesn't even support high-end gaming pc's today (No SLI...really?!?). Rockstar has no one to blame but themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kormgar Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Still though, PC gaming won't EVER die. Its still one of the major platforms even with its piracy and I'm pretty sure PC hardware companies would lose a lot of their sales if PC gaming was stopped completely. Ya know...I've been hearing reports of the imminent death of PC gaming for a good 15 years now. I don't think the talk will ever go away. But despite the best efforts of certain companies (EA I'm looking at you) it's still a healthy and vibrant gaming platform. But I do wish certain companies would stop buying up the best and most innovative developers and then gutting them at the first signs of a cash flow shortage <spills some beer in memory of Bullfrog, Origin, Black Isle, Looking Glass, and many others> PC development suffers from none of the restrictive approval processes required for consoles. Anyone can program any game they damn well please and then release it on the internet. That's sort of beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I agree man. There are so many good companies who get totally screwed after they get bought by bigger companies. EA is a major culprit of this, thank god Rockstar didn't sell out atleast or we'd already have three DLCs and a new GTA released . Devs who don't release for PC are pretty stupid IMO, PC is a major market like I said before and they're only loosing out on a good chunk of cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExitiumMachina Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 It comes down to simply money, there is far more money and less time in console. One; you only have to build on one set of hardware, two; you don't have to test but on one set of hardware...PC's are just to vast to test on every single bit of hardware. PC rakes in maybe a million while console rakes in billions, simple math really spend less time for more money or spend twice the time for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 (edited) I think I'm gunna puke... (not because of the PC gaming industry; but just because I have drunk to many beers ) But you guys are right; the Devs just don't treat us no good no more. I hate buying a new game just to be treated like a dirty pirate. (I am a paying customer by the way R*). But hey; should we as owners of these incredibly superior machines be subject to this defamation? Apparently we should... R* and Microsoft think that we should, and they also think that we should be punished for it. It's not real nice. But hey... we are still dumb enough to pay good coin... good hard earned coin... for an inferior product. Maybe this is going to be the future of PC gaming around the globe. But maybe it wont... are these companies always going to treat us like pirates? I hope they don't. It will prolly not be in their best interest. But hey... if they do... they can count on losing the majority of the gaming market. I don't think I'll lose to much sleep over it though, and neither will most PC gamers. I do like to rant though when I'm drunk . Fun Fun FUN I just don't think that it's a good sign when Devs blame the PC gamer for their own faults. I mean Sh*t... we're just players... we buy... and we return sh*t product. We're just customers... just like the console boys. We can't all be criminals... Oh hang on a second... maybe it's just microsoft that is treating us like criminals. Can't be sure though... Your thoughts? Edited January 19, 2009 by Vert101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo1508 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 The right machine would be that which is listed as minimum and recommended specs - I don't know why people are having issues, but my minimum spec PC outdoes the Xbox version hands down in every way. Why lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardbug Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 PC gaming is more than fine. http://www.megagames.com/news/html/pc/gabe...ingclaims.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 PC gaming is more than fine.http://www.megagames.com/news/html/pc/gabe...ingclaims.shtml Also http://adrianwerner.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 The right machine would be that which is listed as minimum and recommended specs - I don't know why people are having issues, but my minimum spec PC outdoes the Xbox version hands down in every way. Why lie? Its not a lie, the minimum specs for GTA IV are: OS: Windows Vista - Service Pack 1 / XP - Service Pack 3 Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8Ghz, AMD Athlon X2 64 2.4Ghz Memory: 1.5GB, 16GB Free Hard Drive Space Video Card: 256MB NVIDIA 7900 / 256MB ATI X1900 That STILL beats the Xbox360 specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 Man, you can't nail piracy to pc.There is piracy to liberty city stories and vice city stories. neither one of those made it to pc. there are more console pirates out there than pc pirates. I mean think of it, there are more console gamers than pc gamers, more than 100 times more. do a search on one of those pirate sites (im not linking or naming one that's for sure) for a game specific, and platform specific. Yeah you can comfort yourself with saying " oh they aint smart enough" . but really, if they weren't, then who is seeding and who is downloading ? you can see how many seeders and how many leechers out there there are. Heck i was talking to a dude the other day at work and talked about gtaiv and he said " yeah I think I will just download it" so I asked him his specs. he looked puzzled. then I asked "what are you playing it on????" he said " Oh, 360, it's just a software mod I got from (a torrent site) and cracked my new xbox to play pirated games" I wanted to ask more but really didn't want to care. Now if you want to know why exactly pc gaming is dead. You have to think of how the shelves have been stripped of pc games prematurely. http://truxtertech.com/news/2008/08/is-pc-gaming-dead/ I wrote that crap almost a year ago. But now, thank god for steam and d2d and so fourth, we are saved. For now. but we will die off and our numbers will get smaller. Why?.. because it will not be target the masses like consoles do. Maybe PC gaming is going to die then... at least for some devs. I know that there are a lot of companies out there that target the PC community specifically. And... they make a killing (profit wise I mean... not literally). And the thing is... when I build a PC, I build it for performance; and I think that a lot of PC gamers out there do too. Just because we have systems that could run circles around the XBOX. It doesn't mean that we are pirates. We just want the games that we buy for PC to be great; obviously some Devs don't see it the same way I do. I mean... GTA4 ran great on my system... after the first patch. But my system is one configuration out of how many? I would say plenty. I can't say that I dont have any problems running this game on my PC, because I have had a few. They should prolly work on their ports as opposed to protecting their software from piracy so badly. I mean there are honest PC gamers out there... and most of the people that can afford to buy a system that runs these games... can usually afford to buy the game also. But crappy ports tend to lower the amount of customers willing to pay for the product. So... I guess the question I'm asking is "Are developers trying to kill the PC gaming industry by releasing crap... or is it piracy?" Maybe we already know the answer to this one. You're getting a little off. Ask yourself, if GTA 4 didn't come to the console first, would it have been much better? A lot of developers have moved to consoles but that is because it is easier to code to one machine and a lot more people can afford the console. No developers are not trying to kill the PC gaming industry. The crap they released was simply due to rushing it, and not caring about it. It is nice to have a video editor but honestly why force us to install and run it to play multiplayer? You know, I didn't need Social Club, I can do without. Make videos and still put them on youtube. Actually I heard from a programmer that porting from console to PC was an absolute sh*t fight... correct me if I'm wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algenon_iii Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 How about: Anti-piracy measures that install root-kits/malware onto your PC, to make it even worse then telling you that you can only install the game you bought x times. Poor quality and buggy poors where people may have to spend ages just getting a game to work - I'm not talking tweaking a bit here and there. I suspect a lot of PC-gamers are of the 8-bit & 16-bit home computer generation and hence in their late 20's - early 40. Speaking as someone who falls into this group - I'm too old for this sh*t now. I can normally spare an hour in the evening to play computer games so I don't want to spend an evening or two just trying to troubleshoot. I suspect this is true for a fair few others as well. Oh and get a console isn't a good answer as keyboard + mouse is how I want to play. M$ getting in on the console business, a double-edged sword, in some ways it helps in others it doesn't as the sucess of the xbox is of paramount importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livilaNic Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 As Mark states in this post... Leave it out. Short answer: No. Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punisher.ita Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Not piracy but: - overbugged games - money spent on useless but nosy protections in stead of BETA TESTING are killing PC gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJtraveltoLiberty Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 the industry needs piracy, like piracy needs the industry.. thats the truth but they tryn to stop, tryn to kill the piracy cuz this thing is growing. if it growing of course it brings serious problems, cuz piracy is a industry too, "dark industry". true story: Baker makes the bread with our flour, the bakers selling the bread and get our money, finally eat and we cant share the bread, cuz industry cant survive. but we have people sleeping in the streets and they cant survive too and who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 (edited) They are low becaose most of the people have already bougth it for consoles. ok so would a cross console release of this game have been better? PC gamers are still going be hit by crappy ports and extreme DRM measures. I'd like to see the PC gaming industry get back on it's feet. I mean FFS we're the ones that made Devs what they are today. we shouldn't have to take this crap. Once again not starting anything but this is NOT a crappy port. Anybody that can run it PROPERLY would have no choice but to agree. Needs a little polishing but far far from a crappy port. This will be argued for a long time but if people get to see it run on the right machine they would change their tune. (But only if they owned the machine). That inlies the problem, everybody wants to play it but they cant so they are mad. My PC wasnt doing it as high as I wanted so I bumped it up and have been loving it since. Ok you may be right... this is not a crappy port... it runs fine on my system as I'm sure it does on your's. However... this was not the case with most PC users... so please... let me be an ass. This game was not optimised for PC users... PC users resorted to Piracy because they thought that this game was not worth the coin that it promised to be. If we take a look at product analysis; a stable product will yeild a much higher dividend and more consumer loyalty... than one that is sub standard and slaps the consumer in the face from the word go. This slapping the consumer in the face is not a good thing. The Piracy issue, increases the cost to the legitimate user. Why? I dunno. But it does. (Maybe the legitimate user needs more slaps in the face). My main point is that legitimate PC customers are being being classed as pirates or criminals. This is not a good thing. We have a right to buy a product that is optimised for our system. There are many companies out there that do it to a reasonable degree... so why not R* and why not Microsoft? Is R* going to jump on the bandwagon with MS and scream "piracy was what made us resort to bashing our PC fans... and piracy was the reason we lost so much profit" Hmm... dunno about that guys; maybe you're right; but maybe you're wrong. It might just come down to product support. I can never tell with the shifting tides of modern commerce... I'm not saying that this product was bad... it was a great product... however maybe give a thought to the end user. Edited January 19, 2009 by Vert101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMaan Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 (edited) true story: Baker makes the bread with our flour, the bakers selling the bread and get our money, finally eat and we cant share the bread, cuz industry cant survive. but we have people sleeping in the streets and they cant survive too and who cares. Edited January 19, 2009 by PacMaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma701apm Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Soon someone will release an engine like GTA4 open source and everyone whose got a PC will stop buying games altogether because we wont have to. People do like Second Life and that's free. It was close with q3source but the graphics were still lacking, it really doesn't NEED to get much better now. I think GTASA was more fun than GTAIV, if there were a graphics update for that engine and proper tools for the new cars and stuff, I think I might have already quit the rat-race. We don't need to worry about PC game sales. I love games but if I dont have to buy them I wont. I don't think piracy is a good thing, but sometimes it's the only way to get things at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foisky Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 No it's greedy corporations who are the problem although they will blame it on piracy. I don't care if the gaming industry is going down and with the upcoming economic depression the games industry will have hard times and not only the games industry It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine... http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=9FOZsdCMizU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 (edited) Soon someone will release an engine like GTA4 open source and everyone whose got a PC will stop buying games altogether because we wont have to. People do like Second Life and that's free. It was close with q3source but the graphics were still lacking, it really doesn't NEED to get much better now. I think GTASA was more fun than GTAIV, if there were a graphics update for that engine and proper tools for the new cars and stuff, I think I might have already quit the rat-race. We don't need to worry about PC game sales. I love games but if I dont have to buy them I wont. I don't think piracy is a good thing, but sometimes it's the only way to get things at all. I'll buy games just for the hell of it... just to support the PC gaming industry. I'm an idiot though, but then again... how often did you buy a crap game and not return it? Just because you didn't do enough research into it. I've done it plenty of times. I'm a real Fuc*tard in that reguard. Edited January 19, 2009 by Vert101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMaan Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 tbh with most games i do download them first to see if i like them enough to part with my cash. With games like gta4 (which i have bought btw) theres no other option with there being no demo. If i do like them then i do buy them, but theres no way i'm gonna pay a lot of money for something when i dont even know if its worth it. There is a recession on you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 tbh with most games i do download them first to see if i like them enough to part with my cash. With games like gta4 (which i have bought btw) theres no other option with there being no demo. If i do like them then i do buy them, but theres no way i'm gonna pay a lot of money for something when i dont even know if its worth it. There is a recession on you know. That is fair enough... there is a recession on, and people have to think about what their spending their money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IJM Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Developers like the consoles because they are rigidly defined hardware and o/s. Make a game for a given console and they can be fairly certain it runs on every console of that make and model. To make a game for PC, they don't know what hardware you've got, what software you've got. And what config you've got and what other crap you've got on there. They have to make the game run on such a wide range of machines and configurations that it's impossible to test for every combination and guarantee that it'll run. In short, it's cheaper to develop a quality product for console than PC. Add to that that consoles are far cheaper than even a fairly basic gaming PC, and you have a shrinking PC gaming market. I don't know who's right or wrong about the piracy issue. But if take piracy out of the equation for a moment, you'll quickly realise that it's a case of simple economics. It costs more to develop for PC than for console. The PC sales aren't as great as console. And it's easier to guarantee a quality product for console. If Microsoft want to rescue PC gaming, I'm not sure Games for Windows is the way to do it. Perhaps they should do an XBOX virtual machine that runs under windows. I'm not sure of the feasibility, but if I understand correctly the hardware's very similar, the XBOX firmware would be something close to if not actually Windows CE with similar API's to DirectX etc. Just my twopenny worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuicyFruitSweeT Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 its not the game nor the port that has bugs! its because ur pc suck! hahaha deal with it bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShXIII Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 No one can deny that piracy does hurt the industry that's obvious but I think it has to do with both sides, the gamers and developers. Developers are trying so desperately to stop piracy but all they are doing is hurting the actual people who buy the game. These companies spend so much money trying to come up with new ways to stop piracy when they should be investing in making the game actually good/playable (GTA IV). GTA IV PC is the perfect example... lets get a show of hands on how many people are actually going to purchase or preorder the next GTA for PC? I can guarantee its going to be fewer and fewer. PC gamers are going to acquire the next GTA game in some form or fashion without paying for it to try it first and by then that person/people are not going to give a crap about laying down the 50 dollars for it. It's just sad to see the industry turning into this because I am an avid PC gamer and I'd hate to lose it. With GTA I didn't care about waiting the 7 extra months to play this game because I just knew or thought I knew that rockstar was going to kick ass with this game. damn was I COMPLETELY wrong, this is the first time I will admit the console version is way better then the PC version (kicking myself as I say that but I have no choice). Rockstar I am just completely floored that you let this game be released like this. What was the point? Pull as much money as you can into the company before the close of the year to help fight off EA again from buying you out in 2009? Or just plain ignorance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 (edited) its not the game nor the port that has bugs!its because ur pc suck! hahaha deal with it bro... I have a good PC buddy... I can play this game with no trouble... like I was saying; there are a few bugs for me, but the game is completlely playable. My main problem is the whining from Devs about piracy and how it is crippling the PC gaming industry. Edited January 19, 2009 by Vert101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptPusheen Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Market needs piracy. More people are playing the game(original or not), better for publisher and developer. It's all about popularity. They would rather like to have milions of fans playing game than few thousands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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