Vert101 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I kinda hope that one day these so called pirates develope a game for the PC community that F*cking rapes these big labels... and asks for the same respect that say... Radio Head did... with their pay for what you think this product is worth ethos. It might really shake up the devs; and it might get the PC gaming market back on the front lines of industry... And if major Devs want to survive in this sort of environment, then they will have to either go console... or... conform to their customers wishes... Dunno... What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Define "pirates". I don't think Razor1911 group will start coding games But I get what you mean. All you would need is a rather major game that has been developed with gamers in mind. The problem with selling it to more people is advertisement. the EULA could state "if you like and plan to use this product you are a) required to pay for it as much as you think it's worth or b) convince at least five of your fellow gamers into getting and playing the game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Define "pirates". I don't think Razor1911 group will start coding games But I get what you mean. All you would need is a rather major game that has been developed with gamers in mind. The problem with selling it to more people is advertisement. the EULA could state "if you like and plan to use this product you are a) required to pay for it as much as you think it's worth or b) convince at least five of your fellow gamers into getting and playing the game". The advertising comes from gamers... for gamers man I mean we do talk a lot of Sh*t hey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell-fish-bitch Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I kinda hope that one day these so called pirates develope a game for the PC community that F*cking rapes these big labels... and asks for the same respect that say... Radio Head did... with their pay for what you think this product is worth ethos. It might really shake up the devs; and it might get the PC gaming market back on the front lines of industry... And if major Devs want to survive in this sort of environment, then they will have to either go console... or... conform to their customers wishes... Dunno... What do you think? It will never happen Games cost money, pirates don't have money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I kinda hope that one day these so called pirates develope a game for the PC community that F*cking rapes these big labels... and asks for the same respect that say... Radio Head did... with their pay for what you think this product is worth ethos. It might really shake up the devs; and it might get the PC gaming market back on the front lines of industry... And if major Devs want to survive in this sort of environment, then they will have to either go console... or... conform to their customers wishes... Dunno... What do you think? It will never happen Games cost money, pirates don't have money. Pirates have the the skills and the time... and they are everywhere... It just depends on whether they are interested in getting crew together... they can profit from this Idea if they want to... I mean... there are modders out there that do a little bit for the community... There are map makers that do their bit for the community... There are modelers that do their bit... So why the F*ck not hey? All it takes is time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Man if Razor1911 comes out with their own GTA, it would be so damn awesome. They have some SERIOUSLY good coders (way better than Rockstar's anyway) and it can be a big hit if they want it to. They've been in the game since 1985! Before DMA even existed! Imagine the experience and skills they've earned since then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell-fish-bitch Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Man if Razor1911 comes out with their own GTA, it would be so damn awesome. They have some SERIOUSLY good coders (way better than Rockstar's anyway) and it can be a big hit if they want it to. They've been in the game since 1985! Before DMA even existed! Imagine the experience and skills they've earned since then! Rockstar won't allow any coders to recode their game, they can't just do it, it has copyrights, razor's team won't be able to sell their recoded game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nope I didn't mean an actual GTA. I meant a GTA styled game. Oh and they won't be selling it, you know why . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell-fish-bitch Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nope I didn't mean an actual GTA. I meant a GTA styled game. Oh and they won't be selling it, you know why . To create game, they need an engine, they can't create an brand new engine, they need to use one, and it's cost money. Of course, they can create a giant mode, but not a real full game of modern days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FaST Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Nope I didn't mean an actual GTA. I meant a GTA styled game. Oh and they won't be selling it, you know why . To create game, they need an engine, they can't create an brand new engine, they need to use one, and it's cost money. Of course, they can create a giant mode, but not a real full game of modern days. Are you a group member or something? I'm amazed at your knowledge of their coding skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggeo Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 You wouldn't steal a handbag. You wouldn't steal a car. You wouldn't steal a baby. You wouldn't shoot a policeman. And then steal his helmet. You wouldn't go to the toilet in his helmet. And then send it to the policeman's grieving widow. And then steal it again! Downloading films is stealing. If you do it, you will face the consequences. You ever wonder, why there are exist free agent artists, or independent studiow that make films? or independent companies that develop games? I respect and buy their work, but I deny to respect and buy a work from a company that treat me like a number in their account. Monopoly in todayw world is what kill movie,song,or game industry. We had too many small independent companies in the past and we had GREAT games in GREAT price. Now we have companies try to monopolize the scene, and we get CRAPPY overprice games. (See EA bought Miramax, Activision etc., T2 with R* etc) and more. And if EA buy T2, then we can be sure that from EA PC gamers all they have to expect is more BAD releases with more crappy protection, and with a higher purchase price. So Why I respect such companies when they don't respect me. Steven Spielberg knew something more, when denied to be a part of the big movie industry, and create his own independent company,Dreamworks. As they're still out there companies wich respect my hard earn money, I will respect their work. But when companies treat me like another zero in their bank accounts, then we can get their products and do what ever want with them. I will find other ways arround. (Someone gifted to my nephew the SPORE game, from EA. EA demanded internet access to activate and play the game. My nephew don't have internet access. Game was unplayable. , I download and installed to his PC a version wich bypass DRM and play without activation. Am I illegal? He has the game and can't play it, cause EA demand internet access. And when I e-mailed them and asked them another way to activate the game, they said there is no other way. So they can have the game. I found a way arround.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I found a way arround. It all comes down to this. They can take this DRM crap and ram it up their big arses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggeo Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Games cost money, pirates don't have money. Pirates have the the skills and the time... and they are everywhere... It just depends on whether they are interested in getting crew together... they can profit from this Idea if they want to... I mean... there are modders out there that do a little bit for the community... There are map makers that do their bit for the community... There are modelers that do their bit... So why the F*ck not hey? All it takes is time Pirates are people who steal your work, change it and sell it for profit. The SCENE of coders, modders or reverse engineering is beyond that. They're talented people who demostrate how we can have better games or software with less effort, and without all these craps companies give to us. They will never sell their work, cause there is an idea behind it. NO ONE CAN claim that has the copyright of "1" and "0". I can use any code to meet my needs, cause code has no father\, or actually has many fothers and mothers. If change and sell a code created by someone, then yes this is piracy. But no one from the scene of reverse engineers ,or modders will do it for profit. Of cource they are pirates out there. But most of these are just talented people, who show to the community how a software can be developed to meet anybody needs. I bought GTA IV. I installed and played a version I download wich bypass DRM, and all these sign up to M$ and RSC, before start the game. And I don't have to close any virtual drive or any bluetooth device in order to play the game. (DRM and safedisk are incombatible with any virtual drive, even with my bluetooth driver. Couldn't play it.) With the copy I download I can without the need to close any device or service. This is a demostration how R* could develop the game without all these craps wich give me the end user ,who I bought their game, a headache, on how I can run it. Well no more headaches, now I know how. And they can sue me if they want tell me that I am illegal. I deny to pay for any more CRAPPY "1" AND "0". I will pay only for good quallity software.. For all the others always will be a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Pirates are people who steal your work, change it and sell it for profit. The SCENE of coders, modders or reverse engineering is beyond that. They're talented people who demostrate how we can have better games or software with less effort, and without all these craps companies give to us Very good point Biggeo. The term pirate is basically a generalisation that Devs have put talented people under. In all honesty I think that they're more like concerned activists that are sticking it to the man. Groups like Razor1911 actually help legitimate buyers of PC games more than the devs do. Like I said before... I bought Far Cry 2, and securom wouldn't even let me play the game (I've also had lots of problems with Securom and GTA4), even though I had the original CD in the drive. Razor1911 fixed that problem for me with a crack. They are in my Cool Book, whilst Ubisoft is on my Sh*tlist. At least these guys are protecting consumers, when the law doesn't. And yeah I wouldn't consider modders or indie game devs to be pirates. Edited February 10, 2009 by Vert101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 They will never sell their work, cause there is an idea behind it. NO ONE CAN claim that has the copyright of "1" and "0". I can use any code to meet my needs, cause code has no father\, or actually has many fothers and mothers. I can not agree with this. There is something that is called intellectual property. That is, if someone spent time coding, creating art and testing some application, he has dibs on those ones and zeros. He can claim some sort of royalty for them. The information doesn't and can not want to be free. It's not an entity, it can not wish didly squat. The intention of the one who came up with that information is responsible for it's distribution and can do as he wishes. If he want's to give it away just for merit, that's his call. But if he intents to capitalize on his work, only a foolish man would rob him of his efforts and then claim *he* did the righteous thing. The only real aspect of piracy that can be discussed here is in domain of removal of overzealous DRM and maybe the try-before-you-buy method. Everything else is illegal. Also, if you bought a copy, why download another one? Why not just use a crack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggeo Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I can not agree with this. There is something that is called intellectual property. That is, if someone spent time coding, creating art and testing some application, he has dibs on those ones and zeros. He can claim some sort of royalty for them. The information doesn't and can not want to be free. It's not an entity, it can not wish didly squat. The intention of the one who came up with that information is responsible for it's distribution and can do as he wishes. If he want's to give it away just for merit, that's his call. But if he intents to capitalize on his work, only a foolish man would rob him of his efforts and then claim *he* did the righteous thing. The only real aspect of piracy that can be discussed here is in domain of removal of overzealous DRM and maybe the try-before-you-buy method. Everything else is illegal. Also, if you bought a copy, why download another one? Why not just use a crack? The information does, want and must be free for no commercial use. So many free developers out there, so many software under GNU puiblic licence,so many companies give their products for free for no commercial, use, they know something more ,than we know. And for "There is something that is called intellectual property" as EA and other big companies claimed, trust me no one deny to pay a fee for this. And I give you a simple example. I can download songs (100 of them with 49.5 Euros, aprox. 60$, legally from legitimate company) that means about 8 CD's. if I went and buy each CD I need 16Euro or 20$ for each one, total cost 160$ for the same ammount of songs. intellectual property fee is just 0.5$ per song, the rest are money for anything else. So I deny to pay the anything else. I deny to pay part of the cost that companies charge, for their DRM protection. I deny to pay a single CD disk like it's made from gold. I respect the creators I am willing to pay a fee for their work, but I deny to pay any extra money that make my job difficult. Not my fault if creators trust their work to companies that treat costumers like "000" in their bank accounts. Not my fault if T2 payed more than 200,000$ for DRM just to make me have headaches. I refuse to pay for this and also I'll drop the headaches find a pill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 OK, information is not a living thing. It can not want anything. Simple as that. The one who created or discovered this information is entitled to do whit it whatever he wishes. He can tell to everyone for free or keep it as a secret and take it to his grave. I don't think this matter is even open for discussion, IMO it's an open and shut case. GNU and GPL license are a great thing IMO, but not all software is released under those licenses. Why not? Maybe because some people/organizations decided not to do so? You can not blame anyone who want's to capitalize on their work. For the other thing, it's great what some have managed to do. Like what R.E.M. did with their donate-what_you-want-and-download-freely album. And it would be really great if R* did the same, render themselves free from bounds of T2 and go on their own, sell games directly from their website for a far less amount making a profit. A bigger profit they already have? Probably not, as console gamers wouldn't be able to partake (probably) and the mere fact todays blockbusters are what they are mostly because of propaganda. You know, the publishers raise the hype and then sell overpriced games by the truckload. Also, do you think one company (such as R*) can produce a 100000000$ title all by themselves? All this is great, but it falls in the category of indie game development. Games built by enthusiasts on a low budget. This is not applicable in the general "modern" gaming. I agree with you, why not give the money to the developer directly? Maybe because such beasts as EA will not sit idly by while there are royalties waiting to be collected. Easiest thing for them to do is to buy'em all out. Any, this has nothing to do with piracy. This is an open and shut case. If some game dev makes a game you want to support, the only way to give then cash is through standard channels. If they have a bloodthirsty money grubbing publisher, there's no way around it. Well, one possible solution that has been hinted way back is to pirate the game and send the money orders directly to developers. If this would be done massively maybe something would change, but I don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FaST Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) The only real aspect of piracy that can be discussed here is in domain of removal of overzealous DRM and maybe the try-before-you-buy method. Everything else is illegal. There's this another group of people. They download games, but they wouldn't buy them ANYWAY. If it's cracked, good. If not, then oh well. You can't consider that as a lost sale. I'll go even that far and tell it's an extra PR, since more people get the game just to check it out, tell friends about it, and friends could actually buy the game. I'm also sure that this group is not just a single digit percent of all downloads. Quality games always get profit and popularity (and 'cause of cd-keys also, since some people just the buy for MP, because it's worth it. I'm sure GTA4 would get more sales with quality MP even with kinda bad perfomance. Throw in server browser, dedicated servers support, lose GFWL - bam, already on par with other games.) Those games combine good SP part AND MP part. Look at Xfire's Top Games list, CoD4 is #2 after WoW, an MMORPG game. Before that, I'm sure it was CoD2 since it's #3 right now. I know you probably agree with me on quality game part, but I'm just throwing my $0.02 in this thread Well, one possible solution that has been hinted way back is to pirate the game and send the money orders directly to developers. If this would be done massively maybe something would change, but I don't see it happening. Steam? Or make another system that will compete with Steam? Something like Open Delivery Platform for Game Devs? Ideas are there, it's just if Devs want to think or just continue to get raped by publishers. Edited February 10, 2009 by 3FaST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree even on those parts you think I don't I also believe that most of downloading that goes on doesn't constitute a large percentage of loss sales. This depends on the experience and ones surrounding, but I know loads of people who a) dl and even can't run the game b) can't afford the game and if it came to that, they would just give up gaming. The most influential part of today's gaming market (IMO) is quality. When some dev makes a lousy game/port or treat their customer like bunch of nitwits and place disdain where some respect should reside it's very easy to blame piracy instead of cleaning up in their own backyard. I'm not sure Steam is the proper way to go. Some games there are very expensive and they blacklist loads/some countries. This is a BAD policy. What's the logic behind this policy? "We don't want your moeny because most of your neighbors are pirates"? Maybe if they let me download one of their games I'll share it to my pirate buddies? Why the hell would I do that when they can freely dl it form any torrent site? And example. One and only link, but different content my (undesirable, pirate?) IP via proxy Can you spot the difference? Some 10%. Now, I don't blame Valve as it's obvious that my IP proxy means nothing to them. But let's check out some other publisher. My IP over proxy IMO this is extremely counterproductive. Especially since some of those games are free to download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FaST Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yeah, it's a recent thing to Steam. There was even a thread on Steam forums for petition to fix unfair Europe prices. What's even more interesting is that England gets prices in GBP, but if you compare prices, England gets the cheapest price, then comes US and all those countries with USD prices, and then Euro. Well, no one said Steam is perfect, but it works, and if someone made a Steam alternative without those weird and/or unfair things, it sure could win over Steam any day. Seriously, Steam-alike shop + content delivery + Xfire messenger + no DRM, no CDs + worldwide support = WIN. No one said making a quality and popular product is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) worldwide support No, it's not, this is what I'm talking about. Edited February 10, 2009 by mkey82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FaST Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 worldwide support No, it's not, this is what I'm talking about. Yeah, I meant worldwide support from Steam alternative if there would be one some day. Hence the "Steam-alike shop". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 over proxy IMO this is extremely counterproductive. Especially since some of those games are free to download. One has to be ignorant to buy any one of these two GTA games off Steam, especially when there is a free but officially supported alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkey82 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 One has to be ignorant to buy any one of these two GTA games off Steam, especially when there is a free but officially supported alternative. This is for people that just have to have everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogs Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Actually, what your buying is the "Grand Theft Auto Classics" pack, which has GTA 3/Vice City & San Andreas, the 2 originals are essentially free then. The reason there not free for everybody on Steam is that people would be using there bandwith, when theyve had no money form them whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emcax24 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 you can download gta 1+2 from www.rockstargames.com just in case you didnt know. free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetheshrew Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 you can download gta 1+2 from www.rockstargames.com just in case you didnt know. free. awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crapinabox127 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 500? I have bought a lot but I am not sure there are that many games. Got a list. Exagerating even a little.... that number is over about 20 years I have been playing that long easy Dont get me wrong, I am not starting anything but that is a high number of titles. ok maybe not 500... but I have bought a lot of games. From the Amiga 500 time and a little before... like the Amstrad CPC464. I think that I have done my part to support the gaming industry anyway. Are you sure that an Amiga is a PC Personnal computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Are you sure that an Amiga is a PC Personnal computer? Erm what ? of course the Amiga A500 was a personal computer, the Amiga couldn't be more of a personal computer if it tried, it had everything that personifies a personal computer. Admittedly it wasn't an IBM compatible PC but it was still a Personal Computer or is this now where we all have a scrap about the usage of the term "PC" ? I have a great affection for the Amiga (does it show), I wouldn't go as far to say piracy killed the Amiga off, that is too simplistic. However it sure as hell didn't help the machine much when developers made games that instantly got stolen and hardly sold any copies. Now we have the modern PC a machine every bit as versatile as the Amiga and whilst no one would even suggest the PC could disappear like the Amiga did there is real concern about the state of gaming on the PC. The PC is down to just ONE big developer now that is totally devoted to the format, that is of course Blizzard. I don't count valve because in my books they are just as much as a f*cking sell out as Rockstar are, I mean come on they held back the PC version of L4D so it wouldn't clash with the 360 release of Gears of War 2. I am worried about the PC format and I have said it dozens of times the PC is being sold down the proverbial river by Nvidia, ATI, Intel, developers and even Microsoft. Now you would think that the one group that would want to ensure they do everything they can to ensure the health of the PC format is the actual USERS. But no we see them selling the PC down the river too by just stealing games, coming up with pathetic intellectual debates about whether "piracy is hurting the PC" or even better still going "1, 2, 3, 4 we don't want no ports no more" protests. Ah well what will be done will be done I guess, I personally believe we have long past the point of no return the PC is just going to become the weaker format in the games industry till all we have to look forward too is generic frogger 200 with 25% more flash ads to look forward too. Still on the bright side we will then be able to have debates about whether the PC as a gaming format was killed because of piracy. That's something to look forward too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptPusheen Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Erm what ? of course the Amiga A500 was a personal computer, the Amiga couldn't be more of a personal computer if it tried, it had everything that personifies a personal computer. Oh my...it calls all my best memories... Amiga was a real THING in the past...just realize that in 1987 when pc was nothing more than poor piece of crap with pc speaker beeps and 16 colors amiga had 4 channels digital sound, 4096 colours on screen, graphical OS and full screen 50fps games... For me it's the biggest surprise is that market went PC, not Amiga....but I don't want be blamed for going off topic...so I can tell you that piracy killed Amiga Edited February 10, 2009 by bartekxyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now