Idea: car ownership and a dynamic car crime system

[IJM]

I think this idea could make the game interesting.

 

Car ownership! Here's how it works:

 

When you jack or steal a vehicle, for the first 48 hours you can use it freely. After that it is reported stolen. If you are spotted in it you will get a minimum of two wanted stars. Using a pay and spray will work, but only for another 48 hours. Basically you can't own a vehicle you stole.

 

There are several ways to get to own a vehicle. You can either borrow one of your friends' cars; you can have a vehicle provided for a mission; you can be gifted a vehicle by a character; you can buy a vehicle at one of several dealerships thoughout the city or later in the game you get to set up a ringing operation from which you can have any vehicle you like (described below).

 

Cars that you drive when you are seen committing crime by the police acquire the wanted status that you have at the time rendering it "hot". If you get into a hot car, you end up taking on the car's wanted status (or the car takes on yours if your wanted status is higher). This means that if you own a car and are seen driving it when you have a wanted status, it ends up hot. If you were to then take it to a pay and spray it only clears it's hot status for 48 hours, just like the stolen ones above. Essentially, you could risk losing it. Having a one star wanted status does not count, so that should avoid too many accidental losses.

 

This does change the gameplay quite radically. But suddenly you begin value the vehicles you get to own. If you needed a vehicle for a mission or in which you were going to partake in criminal activity, you're going to steal one instead.

 

 

Also we could extend the theme of vehicle crime in "Grand Theft Auto". Here's how:

 

Later in the game you get to set up your own vehicle crime operations. This is a dynamic unending system that continues to work even after you complete the storyline and get 100%. Scattered throughout the city there are a dozen or so enterable warehouses and industrial buildings usually in industrial areas. You can purchase these buildings and invest money to set up one of three types of car crime operations. But these do not run themselves; you only get money from each operation as you deliver the cars to them.

 

The first and cheapest to set up is a chop shop. You deliver cars to the property where it is broken for parts and you get the money for the parts sold. You can deliver any car to one of these.

 

The second is an import/export operation. These only operate out of properties down on the docks. You deliver vehicles for export to order (this has been done before, but hell, why not?). Also vehicles are imported and you have to deliver them to their new owners.

 

The third is the ringing operation. It costs the most to set up. Cars delivered are resprayed, given new license plates, vin numbers and documents. Initially you can only bring those that are on the order book and then they have to be delivered. You get the aforementioned side benefit whereby you can ring cars for yourself and then own them, but you get no money for this. Later you get to buy a car showroom which allows you to put any car through the ringing operation and get paid for it.

 

But that's not all. Each operation would gain "heat" as you arrive with each vehicle, but reduce gradually over time if left alone. The "heat" added by bringing each vehicle is related to how expensive and exclusive the vehicle is and what your wanted status is when you arrive. If any given operation gains too much "heat" it's busted by the police. You lose the property, the money invested and you gain a four star wanted status which you will have to get rid of. Basically, this will happen when you arrive in the property and exit the car, so at that point the police will raid your operation and you will have the opportunity to escape.

 

You can shut down the operation at any time, but you don't get back all the money you paid for the property and setting up the operation. The property retains the heat it gained whether it was busted or whether you shut down the operation voluntarily, though it will diminish slowly over time. You can run multiple operations all over the city at the same time.

 

To determine how much heat a property has you can pay a snitch to find out how much the police know about it. Also, visual in-game clues are provided when an operation gets close to being busted because the police will stake out your property either from a parked unmarked car or van, or you might spot someone watching from the window of a nearby property a short distance away.

 

Crazy, I know. But ... thoughts? Comments?

Edited January 16, 2009 by IJM

[Omnia sunt Communia]

I just read all of it, and while I think it is a brilliant idea, I'm not sure how well it could be implemented into the Grand Theft Auto formula. One of the aspects of GTA, which makes it playable by anybody; from casual gamers to hardcore nerds, is the pick-up-and-play aspect. You can simply pick up the controller, turn on the game and start playing; without any major hitches or hinderances.

 

Now, if you throw your idea into the fray, you're going to be getting wanted levels pretty much 24/7; which is going to make the game considerably harder. This may be a welcome change for hardcore gamers, like myself, but think how this would affect casual players. I don't think they'd enjoy a game with such intricate features, that require them to do something constantly.

 

It would also destroy the freeroam feature, which is a main part of gameplay. I enjoy being able to walk out of my safehouse and hijack a vehicle; without any major side affects or problems. If I want to take this car for a ride, let's say, then that would become impossible. I would be getting wanted levels pretty much constantly, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the scenery; so to speak.

 

The second half of your idea; is what I really love. I would like to see this extended to other aspects of criminality, rather than just grand theft auto. The ability to set up multiple "rackets" around the city is a brilliant feature and one I'm surprised Rockstar haven't implemented already. It would give you something to do after 100% competition and a way to both spend and make money.

 

I would like to see rackets like; Protection Ring, Drugs Labs, Illegal Casinos and even Weapon Stores as possible business enterprises your character could undertake. Perhaps we could operate on both sides of the law, with the opportunity to open up legal businesses like; Cafe, Car Showroom, Bar etc. It would add a lot of depth to the world.

[08LasVenturas]

LOVE THE IDEA. HAVE A COOKIE.

 

Although I'd shorten it to 24 hours, as it seems more logical. I hardly doubt somebody will endlessly drive around for 24 minutes, If they did, they'd buy their own car at an in-game dealership (if this feature is implemented).

[Ultraussie]

Your hungry?

Dammit. That was the last one! BANG!!!!!!

I would love to buy cars rather than stealing them, its quite unrealistic driving cop cars and getting out right infront of a cop, even though your a civillian.

 

 

Oh. A new batch of cookies!

 

 

[Omnia sunt Communia]

I would love to buy cars rather than stealing them, its quite unrealistic driving cop cars and getting out right infront of a cop, even though your a civillian.

Yes, but would you rather get a wanted level every time you drove past a police car? While it may be realistic, it isn't fun. I would put a large bet on you getting extremely annoyed after the nine of tenth time you've had to loose the cops after achieving a wanted level just for driving past the police in a "hot" car.

 

I wouldn't mind so much if this feature was implemented, if the Pay 'N' Sprays did more than ward off the "hear" for 48 hours only. They should be a permanent solution. When the police are searching for a stolen car, they go by the colour, make and registration. If one of those things are different, the chances are the police wont notice.

[RidingHigh]

 

I would like to see rackets like; Protection Ring, Drugs Labs, Illegal Casinos and even Weapon Stores as possible business enterprises your character could undertake.

 

It was done in VCS, and it was a really good step in the right direction. And then R* announced GTAIV wasn't going to be a real estate game, so this very nice empire building feature was tossed out like a soiled condom on Christmas morning. I hope they bring it back, refine and make it more in depth in the next game.

[V8~Ghost]

I have an idea....

 

 

what if when you steal a car, the person calls the cops and they arrive quickly to the scene, and if you are spotted near the area, you get a wanted level, but if you escape, you...don't....

[chngdman]

I just read all of it, and while I think it is a brilliant idea, I'm not sure how well it could be implemented into the Grand Theft Auto formula

Same here!

 

In my case, I think it's some pretty cool ideas to explain small details liek that to the player and it would make for an immersive experience, but in a GTA title, I'd just be pissed that something else has further detracted my joy and freedom on my way to king of LC (or vc, sa, and etc lol)

[Ultraussie]

I would love to buy cars rather than stealing them, its quite unrealistic driving cop cars and getting out right infront of a cop, even though your a civillian.

Yes, but would you rather get a wanted level every time you drove past a police car? While it may be realistic, it isn't fun. I would put a large bet on you getting extremely annoyed after the nine of tenth time you've had to loose the cops after achieving a wanted level just for driving past the police in a "hot" car.

 

I wouldn't mind so much if this feature was implemented, if the Pay 'N' Sprays did more than ward off the "hear" for 48 hours only. They should be a permanent solution. When the police are searching for a stolen car, they go by the colour, make and registration. If one of those things are different, the chances are the police wont notice.

Im annoyed how easy GTA is. So this would make it challenging.

And you wouldnt get a wanted level everytime, some cops may not know of the car being stolen, and even if they do know, they may not notice it. You could be able to replace the number plates, that would be good.

Or, James Bond style:

 

 

 

[flicko]

 

I would love to buy cars rather than stealing them, its quite unrealistic driving cop cars and getting out right infront of a cop, even though your a civillian.

But..

 

 

Motor vehicle theft, sometimes referred to as grand theft auto by police departments, is the criminal act of stealing or attempting to steal a motor vehicle, including an automobile, truck, bus, motorcycle, snowmobile, trailer or any other motorized vehicle.

..you're going against everything GTA stands for! Without the ability to steal motor vehicles how could a game qualify to be called GTA?

 

 

When you jack or steal a vehicle, for the first 48 hours you can use it freely. After that it is reported stolen. If you are spotted in it you will get a minimum of two wanted stars. Using a pay and spray will work, but only for another 48 hours. Basically you can't own a vehicle you stole.

First things first, this is a fantastic idea! But I'm too sure I'm fond of the latter bit of that paragraph. Whenever I play GTA, and I steal a vehicle, the only time I'd stay in the same vehicle for over 48 hours (game time), is when I'm doing some Vigilante missions in the tank. More often than not, I have a different vehicle every 10-20 game hours. Added to that, if you do stay in the same vehicle for 48 hours, and the police come after you, once you get to Pay 'N' Spray surely they are going to know you are a Wanted man, so why don't they refuse to re-spray your car? You'd still be able to lose the heat via the police bribes.

[IJM]

... the only time I'd stay in the same vehicle for over 48 hours (game time), is when I'm doing some Vigilante missions in the tank. More often than not, I have a different vehicle every 10-20 game hours.

 

Added to that, if you do stay in the same vehicle for 48 hours, and the police come after you, once you get to Pay 'N' Spray surely they are going to know you are a Wanted man, so why don't they refuse to re-spray your car? You'd still be able to lose the heat via the police bribes.

It is true that I did not consider the use of emergency and public service vehicles. But that said... I was thinking in terms of the GTA:IV model because that is very probably how the next GTA will work. So vigilante missions are not done in one continuous sitting. Also you would not have police bribe pickups. But that said you would not be able to rid yourself of the wanted status in a hot car when you leave the police search area unless you exit the vehicle.

 

Furthermore, one must bear in mind that in GTA:IV each game hour equates to two minutes real time. So 48 game hours is just over one and a half hours real time. So that would be plenty of cruising time or time to do missions etc.

 

I picked the 48 hour period as a balance between being short enough to not own the car, but long enough to be able to do things. Also, it's long enough to allow you to still have plenty of time in your stolen vehicle when six game hours are jumped when you save your game.

[flicko]

All fair points. I'm speaking on behalf of myself here, and I would never breach the 48 hour rule once, and even if I did and went for a re-spray, that would mean I'd have the car for three hours in real time. Hmm, come to think of it, I'm starting to favour the 48 hour time period more. I mean, if the time period was any lower, say like 24 hours game time, a lot of gamers would get increasingly frustrated when they received two wanted stars out of the blue constantly. And this wouldn't affect me because I neer stay in the same vehicle for long at all, so this would be a nice little add-on.

[Mainland Marauder]

I think even 24 hours would be acceptable, but then again, I'm not as adverse to challenges as some. Could have some interesting implications for car stealing/exporting missions.

 

If the 24 hours pass, you get two wanted stars, but you can then take it to be resprayed. Say that takes another 24 hours, or maybe it only gets triggered if a cop pulls up behind you where he can see your tags.

[MisterEuro]

Jesus christ the name of the game is GRAND THEFT AUTO

 

not f*cking "super realistic criminal simulator "

 

you jack cars and kill people

why the f*ck would you need that sh*t

[IJM]

If the 24 hours pass, you get two wanted stars, but you can then take it to be resprayed. Say that takes another 24 hours, or maybe it only gets triggered if a cop pulls up behind you where he can see your tags.

Yes. It could be done so that when you're in a vehicle that is hot, the two wanted stars flash but do not eventually go out until you leave the vehicle. Also police are highlighted on the radar. This would indicate that it will move to a full wanted status and the search area will centre on you, but only if you are spotted.

 

That would be quite real world. So essentially, you're in a hot car, but something will only happen if they see you.

[IJM]

 

Jesus christ the name of the game is GRAND THEFT AUTO

 

not f*cking "super realistic criminal simulator "

 

you jack cars and kill people

why the f*ck would you need that sh*t

I knew this debate would come up.

 

It's because I found that the whole practice of stealing and jacking cars with little or no consequences got old quickly. It was too easy to own a car and you wouldn't be too bothered if you lost it because you'd go out and get another one.

 

By introducing this, you do get longer term consequences. You have to think more and the risk and thrill are different.

 

Also, you then also get quite protective of the vehicles you do own. You are going to be a bit pissed off if a ped nicks your car or if it gets pranged.

 

I recognise that not everyone would be happy with a change like this. It is quite controversial. But it would provide a new twist on an old formula.

 

But then I'm not Rockstar either. Unless they read this, like the idea and by some miracle decide to use it, it just ain't going to happen.

 

But you're right, this IS called "Grand Theft Auto" which is why I also included the second part of the idea about the dynamic vehcile crime system from which you eventually get the benefit of owning any car you want.

Edited January 16, 2009 by IJM

[Omnia sunt Communia]

Jesus christ the name of the game is GRAND THEFT AUTO

Exactly. The name.

 

Grand Theft Auto is a name, and nothing more. You do realise that DMA were originally planning on calling Grand Theft Auto 2; Grievous Bodily Harm, right? That proves how little the name actually means to them, and therefore how little it should mean to you.

 

Grand Theft Auto is a crime game, and what IJM is doing is simply expanding on the idea of this, and taking GTA in further steps towards a more realistic experience; in the same way GTA IV did.

[Magic_Al]

I've always thought Pay 'N' Spray represented a criminal chop shop that would take care of VINs and fake title and registration and everything. So using it should make the car permanently yours.

 

I like the idea of stolen cars being recognized, but if the game is consistent that should also mean your face could be recognized. You'd get wanted levels because of past crimes unless you wear disguises or lay low for a long time.

 

I'm sure Rockstar has thought about these issues but we see after all these games they haven't really wanted to change the rules too much. (The line of sight implementation in GTA IV didn't really change the old rules but made them play more according to what the police could really see.)

[Dragonex100]

Sorry about the epic bump, but this is a good idea.

[racerxr2]

I agree. You could include gone in 60 seconds style missions into the game like you had 24 hours to get 50 cars. There could also be missions where you steal a car from a dealership. Imagine stealing a turismo and driving through the big windows without damaging the car.

[BigAmericanTitties]

i guess it could be good, but i dont think many people use the same car for 48 hours

[Silentype]

I would like to see rackets like; Protection Ring, Drugs Labs, Illegal Casinos and even Weapon Stores as possible business enterprises your character could undertake.

 

It was done in VCS, and it was a really good step in the right direction. And then R* announced GTAIV wasn't going to be a real estate game, so this very nice empire building feature was tossed out like a soiled condom on Christmas morning. I hope they bring it back, refine and make it more in depth in the next game.

I agree. That's the thing about gta games the features always seem like they can be more in depth. On the other hand, features in a certain gta would've made another gta 10 times better. (ex: gta sa features added to gta vc.)

[eagle016]

What I like from the idea is the fact it wouldn't automatically be recognized.

 

I think that if you steal a car when nobody is around, it should take longer... if you should even get a start at all.

 

Same with killing. If you shank a guy with a knife on the beach all alone, you shouldn't automatically get 1 star. I still want a stealth-like system.

[CryptReaperDorian]

I believe that the Empire Building feature in GTA VCS was a great step in the right direction, but in GTA VCS it became too much of a job. I mean you have to always defend your captured Empire Buildings and deal with gangsters (Bikers or Sharks) arriving and trying to kill you on sight all the time, which got really annoying when you just spawned at the hospital after being "Wasted!" and then having some gangsters arriving not much later and sending you back to the hospital. I love this idea, but I don't think the vehicle should have heat forever. I think after a while the cops should just forget about the vehicle and the vehicle should just become "cold" after the vehicle being unactive or unseen for a long time. The GTA SA car dealership and vehicle importing/exporting businesses was also a step in the right direction too, and I love to know I own a car delearship full of street racers and a ship that has plenty of vehicles to buy on certain days.

[Claude4Catalina]

I'm liking this idea alot. Hope you don't mind me adding my input, its not citisising what you have done, its just how I would do it.

 

Warehoueses-Have the ability to modify cars at the chop shop locations, with more part unlocks for each class, so say you have to deliver a Dukes, when you get five muscle cars, you get a certain unlock for that class. A bit like MCLA really. Say your 25th Luxury delivery was a Shafter, you should be able to purchase full body kits so you can get the Bratva vehicles but change the colour, including grill, whole body etc.

Also have your warehouses raided by gangs and police, but this could happen at random times, so at say your 7th SUV delivery, the Albanians attack you, but when you chop in 19 Sports car, the Mafia will attack, so bigger gangs atttacking to counter you success. And as a final mission for delivery all cars is you have to defend your place against the NOoSE teams or soemthing. Just and idea.