Open Spaces/Wasted Space

[spaceeinstein]

GTA4's Liberty City was a huge improvement over all previous cities. The city is incredibly huge and detailed and feels more like a city compared to previous cities. If you want Rockstar to add a countryside along with all that and also make it feel more like a countryside than before, we might not see another GTA for years. Liking LC depends on personal opinion and for me Liberty City has the best map over all previous games.

 

Also, did you know that you can silence the phone?

Edited January 12, 2009 by spaceeinstein

[Engioc]

GTA4's Liberty City was a huge improvement over all previous cities. The city is incredibly huge and detailed and feels more like a city compared to previous cities. If you want Rockstar to add a countryside along with all that and also make it feel more like a countryside than before, we might not see another GTA for years. Liking LC depends on personal opinion and for me Liberty City has the best map over all previous games.

Being incredibly huge and detailed doesn't give me anything extra to do apart from look at it.

[spaceeinstein]

It's all personal opinion in the end. People like the new Liberty City, others like the old SA. A poll can find out what the majority on this forums like.

Edited January 12, 2009 by spaceeinstein

[nicotin3]

Disk space, time and work, creating a world the size of SA with the quality of IV would take alot of disk space and be an insane amount of work, i dont think its neither R*'s or the fanbase interest to have a new GTA every 10 years..

 

I liked the state of San Andreas because it was huge and diverse and i like LC because its very detailed, complex and beautyfull.

No one is wright or wrong about this, really...

 

[Slamman]

Making the changes they ALREADY did required the delay.

Many people cried their little hearts out over that, but this is a graphically splendid game with killer comedic AI.

As mentioned, start a gang shooting with cops nearby, GTA4 simply DOES NOT get any better then that!! Hands down fantastic in my book!

[SaintJimmy]

 

Ok, even I think that´s clear.

But some things are really hard to understand...  just to name some..

 

Why I cannot get a coffee in these Star Cafes? It is way annoying just being there... to produce N.

Why I cannot drink something at the Strip Clubs´ Bars? Erm... anyway I cannot have a drink somewhere expect softdrinks!

Why I cannot buy some cigarettes in these small wooden huts where you can buy drinks on the street? Cmon I want Cigarettes in GTA!

 

Would like to get my clothes clean (Hell befor that they have to get real dirty!) in the dry-cleaner-shops, submit my cash onto my bank account by using the ATMs and want to have a meal at the diners or fastfood restaurants by sitting on a chair! *

Imagine you get a full tablet of a f*ckin HappyMeal just right from the counter.. you´re turning, looking for a free table to have your meal at. BAMM. Some fool runs into you.. and all for nothing. (Euphoria)

 

When I don´t have so much options to spend my money for, hm...  lets getting me payd for my safehouses.

IMO it would be nice to pay my bills for every ingame month...  and when I do not have enough money I am forced to live in an old and messed-up hotel or motel.

THAN I would have a reason for a bank account, and one more reasen for all that ATMs. I know I can robb the clients after withdrawing money.. and that would be also more cool if I have to pay for my f*cked-up appartment in that already issued hotel or motel in that I have to pay daywise.

 

Just some ideas without bilding up the whole game from point zero....

 

And the very most ever uber missing feature is the need of GAS!!!

Wouldn´t it be cool to need to have a look at your gas-O-meter?

These nice Gas-Stations would make way more sense... and you get another moneyhole again.

Because it's GTA.

It's not The Sims. Those features would be neat but then there'd just be more things to complain about.

People will argue over anything.

Ever hear of the guy that asked one guy,

'Did you have sex with my wife?'

and the man replied 'no'.

So the guy says 'What, isn't she god enough for you?'

 

So that's the same thing for features such as those. In a GTA they will be useless, but they will most definitely be complained about.

Talking of The Sims I think thats what GTA4 offers, dating, friends, and places to take these dates and friends, once the missions are done this is all that is left, annoying phone calls from people constantly wanting you to take them out. GTA4 is the closest one to the Sims yet. So if you dislike the Sims I cant see why you believe GTA4 is so great.

 

Even worse is unlike GTASA I cant even hurt these people cause the minute I try they magically disappear back to their home before I kill them. Very realistic effect that one.

Are you serious? You actually believe GTA:IV is more roleplay/simulation based that any other GTA game?

Clearly you're not worth listening to then. Go play SA again and remind yourself of how much like the sims that was.

And uh,

- you can turn off your phone (Even though i only get the odd call every now and then, you're obviously exaggerating)

- and when you try to kill a friend/girlfriend they don't magically disappear. they have increased health but they do 'die' and then the next day they call you to ask if you can pick them up from the hospital.

 

you're asking us for backup on facts when clearly you can't get your own right.

 

And if you're confused as to why features were 'dropped' please read the explanation in my previous post rather than just focus on where i talked about the whole 'sims' aspect.

it's pretty clear.

Edited January 12, 2009 by SaintJimmy

[Slamman]

Before we harp all over the same forum member's repeated postings, I beg you to recall Sam Houser's own comments about this GTA, that REALLY sheds the needed light on the game from the developer's stand point. They weren't thinking EA = the Sims, etc... GTA has to be similarily compared to The Sims for some reason. I hate the Sims, after trying it, it was far more boring then GTA ever is for me.

 

What Sam Houser publically stated was about his own suggestion to the team (at their meetings) about adding the feature of getting petrol, or GAS as we say in the States, and the team told him in effect that that was going overboard with the reality meter.

 

That's not to say gamers haven't had the same notions, but they are often contemplating the working versions of the builds away from the public with only a smattering of outside influence, how much will not be known to us, but more then a few people here believe they've wandered in and out of these forums looking for input, but I suspect ultimitely they are reshaping things based on the results they get.

 

One example of the design in motion was the aircraft crashing in San Andreas, It was Aaron Garbut who probably stated that when seeing that, they suggested a fix to trajectory plotting in the code, but rethinking it, left it as is, for it's unexpected effect, and it seems very natural and I enjoyed it happening unsuspected! Went to your stats for planes destroyed.

 

Anyway, the main point is that the vast areas around which we drive, walk, run, ride, shoot....in any given Grand Theft Auto series, would be best if one could exploit that area just as in the real world, imagine...kicking in the door as Niko can only do in a cutscene. Throwing a garbage can through some building picture window to gain access! That's one idea of how GTA could evolve down the road!!

[computer g3mer]

Thats one of the many reasons san andreas sh*ts on IV. Too many boring squares- not enough land to explore.

[Engioc]

 

Anyway, the main point is that the vast areas around which we drive, walk, run, ride, shoot....in any given Grand Theft Auto series, would be best if one could exploit that area just as in the real world, imagine...kicking in the door as Niko can only do in a cutscene. Throwing a garbage can through some building picture window to gain access! That's one idea of how GTA could evolve down the road!!

This is exactly what I've been trying to say all along, not that one game is any better or worse than the other, but simply all GTAs still contain too much space I cannot do and I see things done in missions or cutscenes I cannot do later on. Example I see the ability to use a lift during some missions but later on these dont work, why?? If they can make it work during a mission why cant it work any time? Why give me something and then take it away?

 

As for comments about the Sims, it is boring, and I never said these elements didn't exist in SA, they did, we had dating. If you look at GTA4 this has been made even more like the Sims because now not only do we have gf we also have friends to deal with. Dating and going out with friends seems rather like the Sims to me. For the most part I have no problem with friends or gf but this was a criticism many had about SA, just like the Open space issue, but yet again GTA4 has not eliminated the problem, its still there and infact has been expanded on. If you didn't like wasted space in SA, how can you like it in GTA4? If you didn't like dating in SA, how can you feel this is a good part of GTA4?? Its no different at all apart from newer graphics, big deal, every game has that.

 

The whole point here is the criticism leveled at GTA SA should also be leveled at GTA4 because it still has these same problems. Not that SA was better, not that GTA4 is better, the fact that nothing has changed and these problems still exist. How can it be better when many of the things people complained about in SA are still there?? Have the problems many said existed in SA been eliminated, no, the only difference is the location. The location is not the problem, its not the space, its how the space gets used. We had SA with a lot of area that never got used, particularly in country. Now we have a city with a lot of area that's isn't being used (most buildings are not used and cannot be entered, even the ones we could enter for missions are no longer accessible after, why?). I'm not sure if many people are really getting what I say, GTA4 is a great game to play, but it did not fix any of the issues people complained about with SA. If your going to level these complaints at SA, how can you then turn around and say they are great in GTA4? what simply because we had better graphics dating is ok now? but before it wasn't cause the girl didn't look sexy and realistic enough for you??

 

Sorry but I just don't understand, if it wasn't good about SA, how can it be good now?

 

If your going to say these things were bad and should of been removed cause you didn't like them in SA, why now defend those same things you complained about before? What simply because GTA4 has better graphics you think its great?? So far thats the only argument most of you have put forward, Oh wow its got such lovely graphics and detail, I cant use any of it, but hey it looks so good lets forget about all the things we didn't like in SA that we still have now. Heaven forbid anyone talking about what wasn't good about GTA4, its so beautiful we should all sit quietly and look at the screen and enjoy the beauty of it all. I dont know about any of you but I'm more interested in what I can do, not what I can look at. Both aspect are important for a game, simply looking good doesn't make up for the fact there is still a lot in this version of GTA I see but cannot do, no different that SA. There are still things that people hated about SA which have now been expanded on.

 

Are you going to suggest TV was more important aspect of GTA4 than spending more time on missions or allowing me to do more inside some of the buildings?? I'm not stupid enough to think they're going to open up every single building, but the ones they did allow me to walk in to, what are they useful for?? Why didn't they put something inside them I can do or at least let me do the things I saw during missions and scenes? Screw tv, give me something to do inside the few buildings they did open. If your not going to give me anything to do inside the building, don't bother opening it.

 

Wait and open the building in DLC when you decide to use it for something worth while.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Engioc

[Engioc]

 

If they will listen only to the vocal majority, the GTA fans are screwed. Vocal majority basically equals a million of screaming /b/tards.

Yeah, it can be a problem -- if the vocal majority is non-representative of the majority of overall game players. Which can certainly be the case.

 

What also becomes a factor is the percentage of that majority that are capable of avoiding vitriolic when they voice their opinion. When you factor that little wrinkle in (particularly if these forums are anything to go by), the signal-to-noise ratio gets a little problematic.

 

My personal opinion is that "San Andreas" represented the culmination of findings based on numerous user experiences with "GTA3" and "Vice City." So, for that reason alone, I can see why "San Andreas" may be considered to have achieved a great deal, even though it perhaps had elements some people didn't like. That's where I agree that GTA4 could sort of be the equivalent of GTA3 in terms of starting on a new technological footing and expanding upon that.

 

So perhaps two more GTA's from now, we'll have the equivalent of what some consider the "San Andreas experience."

 

I'm not sure if my way of looking at it is really any help to those who are dissatisfied with GTA4, though.

Actually I agree with most of what your saying there. This is not a thread about bashing GTA4, or saying SA was better, I started this thread to simply point out that many criticisms of SA are still present in GTA4.

 

I also have no doubt that in future GTA4s we'll see an improvement, but will we see this wasted space eliminated or will it always be part of GTA any version? I say it again, GTA4 is a fine game, so was GTA3 LC, so was GTA VC, and so was GTA SA. This is just one more in a long line of good GTA games. Can R* fix a complaint many had of SA, which in fact is present in all GTAs including GTA4?

 

wasted space = Wasted space regardless of which version GTA you talk about, and no matter how good the graphics are.

 

I guess many people are looking at this and thinking I say its just GTA4 and there weren't problems in previous versions, not so. I admit these problems in previous ones, lets look at some examples of things that annoyed me about SA and things I missed in that game which I had in VC.

 

In SA we robbed a bank with catalina, but once the mission was over we were never able to do it again. SA also contained many shops, supermarkets etc which I could visit, but there was nothing to do when I got inside (I dont care how you enter it, simply walk in the door, or have a marker that then loads the interior makes no real difference). Now if you think back to VC there was the ability to rob certain shops placed around town. I was dissapointed they did not expand on this idea for SA, rob different kinds of stores, banks etc. A bank naturally gets your more cash than a small store, but also means more heat from the cops.

 

So again we ended up with wasted space, inside and outside, in SA. This small feature from VC could of helped to reduce the wasted space to provide something we could have a little fun in from time to time. Its not going to solve the entire problem of wasted space but every bit helps.

 

Also I am not expecting official missions in every building or location, what I am looking for is places I can makeup my own things to do, but with so many locked buildings in LC the places to invent my own ideas seem rather limited. Whats worse is seeing these buildings during a mission then not being able to go inside it again. All that work they did creating the inside of a hotel for it to be seen and used once, why??

Edited January 13, 2009 by Engioc

[buffalosoulj4h20]

Just thought i'd bring a bit of wisdom to this forum.

 

 

Let's think back to III. GTAIII, the start of a new series of GTA's.

Stripped down to it's bare minimum.

In the future years to come, released were Vice City and San Andreas.

They weren't specific 'sequels' as such, but more or less 'expansions'.

 

If you take a look at GTAIV, you will see it bears much of a resemblance to where the 3D GTA's started.

 

The name, the fact that it is a new canon; it is the start of a new SERIES of gta's.

 

Therefore it has PURPOSELY been stripped down to it's bare minimum. Otherwise, it would be sh*t marketing to give you everything you've already got.

 

GTA IV will definitely have expansions so to speak, and you will be given more features with the future titles.

 

Doesn't anyone understand? If you do then hopefully your outlook will change and you will understand why IV is 'missing' features.

dude thats not wisdom, thats just some cheap market trick to get away with selling an undeveloped game. besides, there were more side missions in gta3 than four.

[yess]

 

GTA4's Liberty City was a huge improvement over all previous cities. The city is incredibly huge and detailed and feels more like a city compared to previous cities. If you want Rockstar to add a countryside along with all that and also make it feel more like a countryside than before, we might not see another GTA for years. Liking LC depends on personal opinion and for me Liberty City has the best map over all previous games.

Being incredibly huge and detailed doesn't give me anything extra to do apart from look at it.

I allways feel the need to exsplore, so in GTAIV when running past an ally i want to tjek it out.

But i don't do it, caurse i know that there is nothing to exsplore but wasted space.

 

When i fly the chopper i would like to land on a rooftop to tjek it out.

But i don't do it, caurse nothing to tjek out but the wiew.

 

I dont know if this is easy to program, but an easy way to use those spaces would be to have acces to all fire escapes.

I know that in reality you do not have acces from ground, so the realisme in the game would suffer from that.

But they could have put a lever or something that you could shoot, to make the lader come down.

Not realistic, but it's only a game.

 

That would have expanded the gameplay space a very lot...

I could imagine some great police shootouts, chases, and alot of fun.

 

The point is, you dont need a countryside to have fun,you need emagination.

R* took a big bite of the fun out this time caurse TADA... multiplayer was the way to go.

 

But i would rather like a solid fun singleplayer playground than multiplayer, it was fun but short lasting.

GTAIV is a great game but alitle short of creative playground.

 

Edit:Sorry for the gramma, i am DK.

Edited January 13, 2009 by yess

[chngdman]

 

Ok, even I think that´s clear.

But some things are really hard to understand...  just to name some..

 

Why I cannot get a coffee in these Star Cafes? It is way annoying just being there... to produce N.

Why I cannot drink something at the Strip Clubs´ Bars? Erm... anyway I cannot have a drink somewhere expect softdrinks!

Why I cannot buy some cigarettes in these small wooden huts where you can buy drinks on the street? Cmon I want Cigarettes in GTA!

 

Would like to get my clothes clean (Hell befor that they have to get real dirty!) in the dry-cleaner-shops, submit my cash onto my bank account by using the ATMs and want to have a meal at the diners or fastfood restaurants by sitting on a chair! *

Imagine you get a full tablet of a f*ckin HappyMeal just right from the counter.. you´re turning, looking for a free table to have your meal at. BAMM. Some fool runs into you.. and all for nothing. (Euphoria)

 

When I don´t have so much options to spend my money for, hm...  lets getting me payd for my safehouses.

IMO it would be nice to pay my bills for every ingame month...  and when I do not have enough money I am forced to live in an old and messed-up hotel or motel.

THAN I would have a reason for a bank account, and one more reasen for all that ATMs. I know I can robb the clients after withdrawing money.. and that would be also more cool if I have to pay for my f*cked-up appartment in that already issued hotel or motel in that I have to pay daywise.

 

Just some ideas without bilding up the whole game from point zero....

 

And the very most ever uber missing feature is the need of GAS!!!

Wouldn´t it be cool to need to have a look at your gas-O-meter?

These nice Gas-Stations would make way more sense... and you get another moneyhole again.

did you notice that the game is anti-tobacco or what? All those peds who hate smoking, want to quit? And that is WAY deeper a discussion than this topic, and indeed most, can handle. You'll kill yourself.

 

Also, as stated earlier in this topic, this is the next GTA III, and not even SA had those features without mods - don't worry, you'll get lots of new things never in SA and all the old sh*t will be back too (after all, it's mostly already coded and just going through changes... just like how most of the code in GTA IV is indeed old code from the old games... )

Edited January 13, 2009 by chngdman

[Engioc]

 

Ok, even I think that´s clear.

But some things are really hard to understand...  just to name some..

 

Why I cannot get a coffee in these Star Cafes? It is way annoying just being there... to produce N.

Why I cannot drink something at the Strip Clubs´ Bars? Erm... anyway I cannot have a drink somewhere expect softdrinks!

Why I cannot buy some cigarettes in these small wooden huts where you can buy drinks on the street? Cmon I want Cigarettes in GTA!

 

Would like to get my clothes clean (Hell befor that they have to get real dirty!) in the dry-cleaner-shops, submit my cash onto my bank account by using the ATMs and want to have a meal at the diners or fastfood restaurants by sitting on a chair! *

Imagine you get a full tablet of a f*ckin HappyMeal just right from the counter.. you´re turning, looking for a free table to have your meal at. BAMM. Some fool runs into you.. and all for nothing. (Euphoria)

 

When I don´t have so much options to spend my money for, hm...  lets getting me payd for my safehouses.

IMO it would be nice to pay my bills for every ingame month...  and when I do not have enough money I am forced to live in an old and messed-up hotel or motel.

THAN I would have a reason for a bank account, and one more reasen for all that ATMs. I know I can robb the clients after withdrawing money.. and that would be also more cool if I have to pay for my f*cked-up appartment in that already issued hotel or motel in that I have to pay daywise.

 

Just some ideas without bilding up the whole game from point zero....

 

And the very most ever uber missing feature is the need of GAS!!!

Wouldn´t it be cool to need to have a look at your gas-O-meter?

These nice Gas-Stations would make way more sense... and you get another moneyhole again.

did you notice that the game is anti-tobacco or what? All those peds who hate smoking, want to quit? And that is WAY deeper a discussion than this topic, and indeed most, can handle. You'll kill yourself.

 

Also, as stated earlier in this topic, this is the next GTA III, and not even SA had those features without mods - don't worry, you'll get lots of new things never in SA and all the old sh*t will be back too (after all, it's mostly already coded and just going through changes... just like how most of the code in GTA IV is indeed old code from the old games... )

Well I dont disagree with the idea that this is a new series and we're starting all over again, but there are still 3 main points that mean GTA4, for me, is not perfect or a great game, its just a normal game providing me with the same features as many other next gen games.

 

These 3 things are:

 

Two complaints made about GTA SA:

1 - it had too much wasted space - Has GTA4 fixed this? not really because if you take an honest look at the city there are large spaces we cannot use, both outside and inside

2 - people didn't like dating saying it made GTA seem like playing The Sims - Again has this been fixed? no, in fact its been expanded on with the addition of friends

 

The third problem:

I see and do things in missions, meaning the coding to make a lift/elevator work has been done. The interior I see has also already been designed and coded. Unfortunately I get to see and use it all for 1 mission which lasts 1 hour at the absalute most, and if you timed it I'm sure it gets used for far less time than that. This seems like a real waste to me, all that effort for me to only ever see it once. Similarly so many buildings I can go inside but yet nothing to do, wouldn't it of been better to open up less buildings but provide something to do inside the few you do open? Now maybe they'll add something to these buildings via DLC, but why bother wasting time now opening them, wouldn't it be better to simply wait and make the building accessible when you've designed something for us to do in that building? Even via DLC they will likely use different buildings and not simply resuse the ones we have already seen, so all that content still ends up being seen just once. All we will end up with is time spent developing more, and again possibly see all the new stuff just once during the mission it was designed for.

 

If the code is already there for these things why not make it available the entire game rather than for just the 1 mission? One argument I've seen in this discussion for why they cant do what I say is people saying it would take too long, but I'm not asking for anything more than what they already spent time creating. A building, lifts, and any other objects which are accessible during a mission should be accessible any time because the code is already there.

 

An exaggerated example of why this is wrong, to open up a building for a mission then close it off again once the mission is completed is this:

If you believe they are closed off because once the mission is completed they serve no official purpose in the game then the same could be said of opening up each island. Once you've completed all the missions in each of them perhaps they should also be closed off again, there is no official missions any more so why keep them open. Now of course we all know the answer, they're left open cause why would you bother closing them again, the content is there, keep on using it. So why do they close off buildings simply because the official mission is over? Each island is left open for one other big reason too, cause it'd be pretty f*cking boring if they didn't leave them open and you were left stuck on one island once everything was completed.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Engioc

[chngdman]

see, what people need to understand is that this game is sold on the value of sex, drugs, and violence.

 

Like, we buy this game, it sells like hot cakes for controversy, but this game is more than what we buy.

 

The dating thing being expanded? It's because this game is designing something bigger than GTA. The controversy sells it - funds more research and development - it won't always be a crime sim. Not every game company is a game company

 

What I mean by that shall remain mysterious, but just, it's packaged for the controversy consumer, there is more going on though...

 

I think the reason the code being there and only being used once, or not being used at all, comes down to wanting to make those old experiences even better, rather than icluding them and then working on them - it is better to add back features as you improve them, rather then to sift through the code. It's better to have every module the way you want it before reintroducing it - it will be worth it, just like the wait for VC was. Only difference is, 'we' were clueless then.

Edited January 13, 2009 by chngdman

[Engioc]

 

see, what people need to understand is that this game is sold on the value of sex, drugs, and violence.

 

Like, we buy this game, it sells like hot cakes for controversy, but this game is more than what we buy.

 

The dating thing being expanded? It's because this game is designing something bigger than GTA. The controversy sells it - funds more research and development - it won't always be a crime sim. Not every game company is a game company 

 

What I mean by that shall remain mysterious, but just, it's packaged for the controversy consumer, there is more going on though...

 

I think the reason the code being there and only being used once, or not being used at all, comes down to wanting to make those old experiences even better, rather than icluding them and then working on them - it is better to add back features as you improve them, rather then to sift through the code. It's better to have every module the way you want it before reintroducing it - it will be worth it, just like the wait for VC was. Only difference is, 'we' were clueless then.

I dont think so, you expect me to believe that most people buy this game cause of the sex? drugs (I think you'll find most GTAs have been anti drug use)?

 

Maybe some violence is part of why we buy it, but its not just that either, every game offers violence, heaven forbid even the sims can be violent if your so inclined (let your pet, kid, or wife suffer long enough and they die). I think you'll find there is more to GTA than violence though, I know its not exactly violence that attracts me to it, its the ability to run around inside a virtual city and do anything I want, be violent or anything else that pops in to my head, GTA4 even lets you be nice giving money to street performers in the subway. Story has a fair bit to do with it too, pack a game full of violence but a sh*tty story and most people wont enjoy it and probably wont bother buying any sequel. GTA to me is simply the sheer amount of things I can do inside the virtual world they create plus a good story to follow through as I explore. Which is why all GTAs, 4 included, are among the best games I own, but just because I think its great doesn't mean I cant find things which perhaps could of been better.

 

One last thing is that while many are pointing at GTA3 LC and saying it also didn't have much content when compared to later versions, at least with GTA3 LC it was a game which made this genre what it is today, it started something totally new, we didn't even notice its lack of content because what it did have was far more than we'd ever seen before. GTA4 cant fall back on that and be considered great without a lot of content, its no longer a new genre, its no longer an excuse.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Engioc