gtathebest4ever Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 i actually quite liked the ps2 version of san andreas. but i'm going with everyone on this one, it's because of the profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptPusheen Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 It's so much easier to make software for consoles. You have one config, one os and drivers so you don't think about compatibility issues. PC is much harder because developer must test game on hundrets on configs with hundrets of patches gamer may be running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag_Drift Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Devs choose consoles because it's easy to code for the consoles. You won't run into the annoyance of a RAM and Power-hungry operating system problem in consoles. They also have a defined set of SDKs to work with. They also won't run into hardware incompatibilities because every console unit is the same. Devs won't have to code .exe files too, and create numerous .dlls and test them. I could go on all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickymaddness Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Devs choose consoles because it's easy to code for the consoles. You won't run into the annoyance of a RAM and Power-hungry operating system problem in consoles. They also have a defined set of SDKs to work with. They also won't run into hardware incompatibilities because every console unit is the same. Devs won't have to code .exe files too, and create numerous .dlls and test them. I could go on all day. Devs don't choose, business decides which platform will earn the highest profit. Sure no "RAM and Power-hungry operating system" but you do have cast in stone processing and graphics power. Every console being the same - sure. For pc you generally use a defined set of sdk's as well, but you have the option to use others if you want. Doesn't matter if you're not compiling to .exe, you still have to write the code and test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm pretty sure that given enough time R* will iron out the bugs in the PC version of GT4, I mean a lot of PC gamers still wait 3-6 months before buying a new release just because they know the first release is going to be infested with bugs. But still... I really hate having to wait 12 months for Devs to port the game over to PC; does it really take that long? I mean they must pass their sales peak for console gamers after 6 months surely. And during that 6 months they could have prepared their PC release. Correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamerJerome Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 i hope they will fix all bugs and problems in gta iv soon so i can play gta iv again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 yeah they will... prolly in 3-6 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Because all game companies except for a few are totally greedy bastards and have forgotten entirely about being loyal to their fans who are the only reason they're earning millions now *cough*Cockstar*cough*. The money has gone into their heads and its sad really. Most companies wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the PC fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Because all game companies except for a few are totally greedy bastards and have forgotten entirely about being loyal to their fans who are the only reason they're earning millions now *cough*Cockstar*cough*. The money has gone into their heads and its sad really. Most companies wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the PC fans. Yeah that's true... but remember we're not fans, we're customers. We spend our hard earned cash for a product, and we expect that product to work. Even though that product may still be a work in progress, I expect to see it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickymaddness Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) Because all game companies except for a few are totally greedy bastards and have forgotten entirely about being loyal to their fans who are the only reason they're earning millions now *cough*Cockstar*cough*. The money has gone into their heads and its sad really. Most companies wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the PC fans. Yeah that's true... but remember we're not fans, we're customers. We spend our hard earned cash for a product, and we expect that product to work. Even though that product may still be a work in progress, I expect to see it work. Exactly. It's an annoying trend that software and game development companies use their customers as "beta testers" when they release the first version. Everything gets released in a "should work" version. Edited January 9, 2009 by Stickymaddness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yeah I agree. PC gamers seem to be guinea pigs of the gaming industry. The console version are made perfectly, while the PC versions have a buttload of bugs, glitches, etc. Oh and most of these gaming companies don't give a rat's ass what customers expect. Ethical or not, all they want is more and more money. I mean, do you remember how some guys from Cockstar said that the amount of people having problems with GTA IV were only a very tiny amount? How f*cking arrogant, just because the game worked on their PCs, they think it MUST work on all PCs. San Andreas, IMO, was what made Cockstar into what it is today. Since it was a huge success and they earned millions and millions off of it, they probably though 'Meh, let's take the EA way out'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vert101 Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yeah but still... there's a lot of different configurations of PC's out there, and it would take time to configure the game to a lot of different specs. That still doesn't absolve R* for the first release they gave us... and I've heard that the console release wasn't quite as peachy also. Developers should take the time to test their release to the best of their ability before pushing a game out on the market. Basically because it will not cause as much negative response towards the game start with; and plus there will be more buyers of the product. I heard that there was an unprecedented decision by steam to refund money to people who downloaded this game online, just because it was so riddled with bugs. R* should look at the amount of people that bought the game in the first place and then sent it back... and add that number to the projected PC sales. I think it would have rivaled consoles sales... if only they had spent the time to make it work at least half decently. Ah well... If wishes had wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-vilx- Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) dunno maby its just because they are kinda noobs ? they had forgot that the pc is the start of this modern technology what we have today so consoles are made of leftovers or sumthin everything started from the pc 20 years or something ago (i dunno when the pc was invented) my english is bad Edited January 9, 2009 by -vilx- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecake Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Why dont they release all versions XBOX 360, PS3 and PC all at once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickymaddness Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Why dont they release all versions XBOX 360, PS3 and PC all at once? Read this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Where are you guys getting the impression the console version runs perfectly ? I can tell you now at least for the xbox 360 that is a load of bollocks. I owned the 360 version and I saw frame rate drops, I saw stuttering, the pop up in the 360 version is horrendous and I even had system freezes with GTA 4 and this was a BRAND NEW xbox 360 bought especially to play GTA 4. In fact the console version ran so "perfectly" that within 24 hours Rockstar was having to release a patch to get the game running on some PS3's as well. Seriously if you think the console is a bed of roses with GTA 4 then please feel free to try it. I know I did and I will happily stick to the PC from now on. That is why I have "GTA 4 on the PC... the only way to play the game", despite the technical failings of the PC version I am still playing it BETTER than the console version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Where are you guys getting the impression the console version runs perfectly ? I can tell you now at least for the xbox 360 that is a load of bollocks. I owned the 360 version and I saw frame rate drops, I saw stuttering, the pop up in the 360 version is horrendous and I even had system freezes with GTA 4 and this was a BRAND NEW xbox 360 bought especially to play GTA 4. In fact the console version ran so "perfectly" that within 24 hours Rockstar was having to release a patch to get the game running on some PS3's as well. Seriously if you think the console is a bed of roses with GTA 4 then please feel free to try it. I know I did and I will happily stick to the PC from now on. That is why I have "GTA 4 on the PC... the only way to play the game", despite the technical failings of the PC version I am still playing it BETTER than the console version. Yeah I know that the console versions aren't perfect either. BUT, there are far less problems in the console versions than in the PC version. And C* seems to be really quick in rushing to fix 360 problems () for some reason. I also didn't see any arrogant omments from C* when there were problems reported with the 360. All PC users got was a half assed patch and a "The amount of people having problems with IV are a very small amount". Didn't see that with the 360 version, now did we? Its the money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Naturally it is about the money, they are a business after all. As for Rockstar being arrogant show me a company that isn't when it comes to their products. A company will naturally DENY there are problems with their products, it isn't just Rockstar that do this nearly every corporate entity will blame everyone else except themselves and their products. You just need to look at the perfect example of Microsoft and their Xbox 360 even with the blatant facts in front of them about the RROD they still denied it and blamed users. Many of the issues affecting the 360 version have never been patched, there is still horrendous pop up in the 360 version, there are still textures not loading properly in the 360 version, there are still crashes when loading missions on the 360 and naturally there are still massive frame rate issues on the 360 which make the PC version look like it's running smooth as glass. As for the PC having more problems, come on here that is par for the course. Most devs these days can't even get a game running without problems on the console, a system that only has ONE configuration. With the PC we are talking 100's of different configurations probably even thousands. I would go as far to say that nearly every single PC is a unique entity in many ways so it is inevitable that no matter what game you get it will fail to work on some configurations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 True, but all I'm saying is that game developers need to optimize the game for ALL platforms they release the game for. If they can't optimize the game for a certain platform, they shouldn't release it at all. I mean we can't be selfish and say that PC users must get a more optimized game than console versions. It should be optimized as much as possible for all platforms. I personally think that developing the game for PC first and THEN porting to consoles would result in an all round better game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 It doesn't matter which way you do the port one format will suffer. The problem comes down to the cheap cpu's that the console use they are in-order, low instruction set with no execution window. As opposed to the cpu you have in a PC with is out of order, large instruction set with a large execution window. If you run code structured to run on the console cpu it will perform badly on a pc cpu and vice versa. I would hazard a guess it is actually quicker and cheaper to port from the console to the PC simply because of the PC's raw power today, it can handle the sloppy code that results from a poor port whereas the consoles don't stand a chance. At the end of the day developers are in it for the money and unfortunately the money is currently with the consoles. Until PC games start selling in their millions regularly we will continue to see sloppy ports and it will only get worse. The better developers get at optimising the code on the consoles the worse it will run on PC architecture. Now having said all that I can still play GTA 4 better than the consoles on my 2 year old quad with 8800gts, sure it should be running better than it does, but I am realistic here the PC is fast becoming a niche market and as a result it will start to take a back seat more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecake Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) Where are you guys getting the impression the console version runs perfectly ? I can tell you now at least for the xbox 360 that is a load of bollocks. I owned the 360 version and I saw frame rate drops, I saw stuttering, the pop up in the 360 version is horrendous and I even had system freezes with GTA 4 and this was a BRAND NEW xbox 360 bought especially to play GTA 4. The 360 runs on out of date hardware. Just imagine the amount of compression that needed to fit all that disc. I dont need to mention the planning in GTA IV in which they were hardware limited by the XBOX360. It doesn't matter which way you do the port one format will suffer. The problem comes down to the cheap cpu's that the console use they are in-order, low instruction set with no execution window. As opposed to the cpu you have in a PC with is out of order, large instruction set with a large execution window. If you run code structured to run on the console cpu it will perform badly on a pc cpu and vice versa. I would hazard a guess it is actually quicker and cheaper to port from the console to the PC simply because of the PC's raw power today, it can handle the sloppy code that results from a poor port whereas the consoles don't stand a chance. At the end of the day developers are in it for the money and unfortunately the money is currently with the consoles. Until PC games start selling in their millions regularly we will continue to see sloppy ports and it will only get worse. The better developers get at optimising the code on the consoles the worse it will run on PC architecture. Now having said all that I can still play GTA 4 better than the consoles on my 2 year old quad with 8800gts, sure it should be running better than it does, but I am realistic here the PC is fast becoming a niche market and as a result it will start to take a back seat more and more. If indeed and I recall what you said earlier, its easy to port from XBOX 360 as it is almost the same as PC architecture. So if it was the same, How do you justify the poor performance affecting the number of users in this forum. Edited January 9, 2009 by icecake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecake Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 True, but all I'm saying is that game developers need to optimize the game for ALL platforms they release the game for. If they can't optimize the game for a certain platform, they shouldn't release it at all. I mean we can't be selfish and say that PC users must get a more optimized game than console versions. It should be optimized as much as possible for all platforms. I personally think that developing the game for PC first and THEN porting to consoles would result in an all round better game. I'm sorry, but the profit from which companes gain from consoles is like 50x the amount from PC sales. This is because of the the huge user base of consoles. The marketing again is more done on consoles. Now, you tell me why on this world why R* would make a fully optimize game for PC when they will not benefit from it. Not unless you make exclusices on the PC patform from Crytek. See Crysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anus Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 What I'm saying is that, if IV was made for PC first and optimized as much as possible and THEN ported to consoles, it would've resulted in a good game for all platforms. PC versions need to be optimized more than console version because of the varying hardware from PC to PC, so it would work in favour of the game and deliver a well optimized game for all gamers, despite what platform they play on. I think costs of developing for the PC first and then porting would also be lower than what they are doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galactica6 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 COME ON! How can u even post such a stupid question?? Do you really think that (most) game developers are most concerened about getting a "shiny" good game that makes the world a happier place?? Sure, there are, but not in massive scale. Not a crew big enough to pull off a thing like GTA4 anyways. Grow up, open your eyes. THIS is the world: It's ALL about the MONEY! Period. EVERYTHING. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. everywhere. anywhere. MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY Console games = LOADS of cash. PC games = Pooooooor income I am so sorry my friend, but PC games (singleplayer anyway) will slowly slowly DIE.... mostly due to torrents and world wide game-copies, (to bad, when PC's are superior in every way) Consoles is harder. It needs chips. Which MAY f**k up your console. 95% buy original games. I'd say that number would be 10-15% for PC gamers Online gaming works though WoW, Battlefield, Crysis wars, CoD¤ Online, etc.... games like that will keep evolving on the PC anyways.... point made: IT´S ALL ABOUT THE MOMEY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharmingCharlie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 If indeed and I recall what you said earlier, its easy to port from XBOX 360 as it is almost the same as PC architecture. So if it was the same, How do you justify the poor performance affecting the number of users in this forum. The general structure of the 360 is similar to the PC and yes it uses a version of Directx 9. However that is where the similarities end, the key problem is the CPU. There is a reason why the cpu on the consoles is roughly 30 bucks and a decent cpu on the PC is 200 bucks. The console cpu is extremely simplistic in nature, they basically junk all the complexed stuff so that it can only run simple instructions VERY fast. Now the PC cpu is incredibly complexed when it comes to simple instructions it doesn't do well but it does complexed instructions far better than the consoles can ever hope to do. If you port PC code to the 360 or the PS3 it would probably run like an 800mhz pentium 1 in terms of performance if it even ran at all. You cannot "port" from the PC to the console well, if anything the game has to be completely re-written for it to work on the consoles. However the PC can run ported code a lot better than the console due to it's flexibility, you will be stuck with the fact that the code will not be designed to make use of the PC's cpu strengths though. In simple layman terms if you code something on a console cpu it could take up to 3 lines of code to do something pretty basic. The PC could do the same thing with just 1 line of code. What has happened with GTA 4 is they just took the 360 version with it's long winded simple code, recompiled it and tidied it up to get it running on the PC cpu. So if you could look at the guts of the code you would see the PC is having to do 3 lines of code to do an instruction when it really could have been done in just 1 line of code. It is a basic explanation at best but it is the best way I can explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesi5 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 he's asking why can't you develope on PC first, then port to console. That way, the same amount of money will be made and an extra for PC users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMaan Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 It's an annoying trend that software and game development companies use their customers as "beta testers" when they release the first version. Again its probably a business decision, nomatter how much they beta test inhouse they're never gonna cover all the angles, so it probably makes more sense (to them not me) and saves them a lot of money just to throw it out there and let us plebs tell them what needs fixing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickymaddness Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I would hazard a guess it is actually quicker and cheaper to port from the console to the PC simply because of the PC's raw power today, it can handle the sloppy code that results from a poor port whereas the consoles don't stand a chance. That's part of the problem right there, because pc's have reached the level where it allows sloppy code to be written because it will still "run". While this is obviously done to save time and therefore money, it's still bullsh*t. There's a right way and a wrong way to code. It's an annoying trend that software and game development companies use their customers as "beta testers" when they release the first version. Again its probably a business decision, nomatter how much they beta test inhouse they're never gonna cover all the angles, so it probably makes more sense (to them not me) and saves them a lot of money just to throw it out there and let us plebs tell them what needs fixing I think you pretty much nailed it right there, unfortunately. The core of the problem is that it's a port, IV written from scratch for the pc would have been amazing, imho. That being said, I'm just glad GTA IV came to the pc AT ALL, this forum could just have easily have been littered with posts about why "C*" isn't releasing on pc. PC gaming isn't going anywhere, sure console is BIG competition, but anyone who believes the tales of doom about how it's going to disappear isn't thinking logically. Perhaps you've heard of Blizzard, id, Crytek, Valve, Eidos or Bioware? I don't see blizzards 11 million+ WoW users suddenly disappearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divinee Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Because all game companies except for a few are totally greedy bastards and have forgotten entirely about being loyal to their fans who are the only reason they're earning millions now *cough*Cockstar*cough*. The money has gone into their heads and its sad really. Most companies wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the PC fans. so u would lose alot of money just to make a pc fan happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livilaNic Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Because all game companies except for a few are totally greedy bastards and have forgotten entirely about being loyal to their fans who are the only reason they're earning millions now *cough*Cockstar*cough*. The money has gone into their heads and its sad really. Most companies wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the PC fans. so u would lose alot of money just to make a pc fan happy? Yes. If you think about it. They would be sold for full price (maybe not full price, but close to it) for many years. You think about console games. They get played, then traded. If I played a console I'd either rent or buy cheap then full price. Just imagine what GTA IV would be with full mod support from R*. Look at oblivion and the likes. I bet they're selling still to this day. If this was a game made for the pc and not a port. It would sell very well until the next installment and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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