Some other things to consider for WD

[Canofceleri]

I've thought of this for awhile now. Actually, I don't know if anyone actually was able to catch my post in Ideas about my plans to stop posting new material on these forums. I haven't stuck by that because I enjoy the people here, and because frankly the other more "serious" writing forums I've attempted to emigrate to have been both tragically inactive and unfun.

 

But the reasons for my attempt to find another home other than this still really bother me. For one thing, we all enjoy writing as a craft. But there is little effort, and I'm guilty of this too, to actually further it. Basically, this forum is a showcase for individuals. We read someone else's work and offer brief thoughts on the work but don't really offer anything besides "Very good! Loved it! Post more" or "Eh. Not my thing, but good going anyhow".

 

This is not good, the way I see it. I'd love a more intense workshop type enviroment, a place where writers go to post their work not only to show it to others, but so the other members will tear their work to shreds and give them insight from an outside point of view. But... some probably don't want this. Personally, I'm not here solely for validation... the nice things that are said, I love that... of course anyone loves to be complimented and it can be inspiring. But there seems to be no balance, it is also important (if not more so) to have people read your work with a discerning eye and point out specifically what is and is not proficient, effective writing.

 

Some people might not like this... so I don't know what to say. Sure, I could adopt the principles I'm talking of myself and hope it catches on... but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that in an enviroment where people largely aren't looking for it. See, this is a discussion I want to have. If people see some sense in my sentiments then maybe there can be a shift in the atmosphere from merely a writer's showcase, to more of a workshop where we as artists attempt to hone our craft and improve significantly.

 

It couldn't be a forum where people have sh*t attitudes and defend their work ungraciously. It also couldn't be a forum where a person attempts to showcase all their work and offer no feedback to other writers. (Other forums like the one I used to go to for poetry, have rules about posting ratios, three critiques for every post of original content, which definitely has its advantages in encouraging critique).

 

I'd appreciate the community's thoughts.

[Eminence]

I agree wholeheartedly about tearing other pieces down, and if I'm honest I feel that most types I myself leave feedback I do this - or at least try to. I'm always reading things with a critical eye, and in the cases I don't leave feedback criticising a piece it's usually because I find little to criticise (as evidenced in my latest feedback to your piece). I think receiving nothing but well dones and sycophantic praise is just as bad as receiving no feedback at all, so I agree with you on that point. I've never thought of this place as nothing but a showcase where only positive praise is administered, although I also understand that, in fairness, it can look that way.

 

I've also noticed the activity rules on other forums and while I think they're good ideas, I think the implementation of them here would have to be more than 'in order to post new content you have to leave 'x' number of critiques'. I do think something should possibly be done to encourage more feedback - which is often lacking - and I do think people should try to be more critical in their approaches to other people's work.

 

I've said that I've never seen this place as simply a showcase, but I'd also agree in saying that I've never seen it as a workshop, either. I think if this place had the atmosphere of a workshop in that way, it would only be beneficial, and I think you've raised some interesting points.

 

On a sidenote, I'm glad you found the temptation to stay too much to resist.

[Oxidizer]

Seeing as this seems scarily inspired by a comment I posted in another thread, I'll elaborate, but first this is what I said:

 

 

By arguing some constructive critism I receive, I only do so when it's incorrect and do so civilly; that's why I chose the word 'defend' rather than argue (and by argue I meant intelligently, not the slanging match kind ).

 

I know what the critique is for and I respect that, and I can and do admit to when I'm in the wrong and happily. The only thing I'm a little irked about it is that now everyone's constructively critising other peoples' work and there's no actual reviews or quality feedback about the story. Point out errors you may have spotted, sure, but I don't see the actual reason to deconstruct somebody's work, where by everyone doing so you get conflicting 'corrections'. Again, no offence, but I think that kind of thing should be reserved for Eminence (or at least just one or two people).

 

You're right: there isn't any balance between showcasing errors and praising good aspects to someone's story. Because the only feedback that's received is constructive critism. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for critique and having our stories ripped apart and turned on its head if it'll help, which admittedly it does. But what I'm getting at is that the only thing that's homed in on is somebody's grammatical errors - there's hardly any reviews about the actual story; characters, plot etc. And that's my point.

 

It doesn't help when everyone's constructively critising other peoples' work either because, like I said, you get conflicting results as to what's correct and what's erronous. I'm still unclear as to why everyone felt it was their place to be doing that in the first place actually, but there you go.

 

And to clear up any potential fueds: I explained before on Msn that my views and opinions aren't directed at anyone in particular, and they're not.

[Rhoda]

Recently I've attemped to be more... clinical with my approach to feedback. Rather than a few lines, I'll attempt to do an "Eminence" and "tear a piece to shreds" as it's put. I enjoy doing this too, as I'll often gain a deeper insight to the piece. I'll also gain a higher level of enjoyment and understanding as I'll spot something I wouldn't usually see.

 

However, while I agree with what Frank says, I don't think we can change the way feedback is given. Many people here are casual visitors, meaning that they don't put too much time in giving feedback. This isn't a negative comment; I understand members aren't in the position to take a piece paragraph by paragraph and analyse it.

 

What I will add though (perhaps unrelated) is this. Recently I've noticed members taking things far too seriously, so much so it's appeared to be more of a popularity contest. Things here are so relaxed and are so much in contrast with other more stressful sections. I think we need to slow down with everything we've got running. Things are getting a bit too serious, what with SSOTM and the awards (my doing, most likely).