General OpenIV Discussion and Announcements

[pmillett]

Thanks GooD

[_Charger_]

if u ever would have all file formats supported, will u make a abbilty for having an"opensource rage egine"??

[leon017]

I've got 2 problems.

The 1st is my object doesn't appear ingame, but the collision works fine (atleast I can walk on it).

And the 2nd is: I can't create the LODs, GIMS says that my hierarchy is incorrect, here is the screen:

 

 

I think this problems are connected with each other, perhaps I made a mistake while export.

 

[TheChopShop]

the 2 problems are not associated-

 

Doomer is currently working on the first problem (objects do not appear, but COL is present)

 

and the second problem with the LOD's, the LOD node needs to be named 'lods', not lod..

 

edit-

you've also got the col linkd to the dev_map>objs node instead of the dev_col>col node and vice versa

 

 

 

------------------------------------------

Edited March 24, 2011 by TheChopShop

[leon017]

 

the 2 problems are not associated-

 

Doomer is currently working on the first problem (objects do not appear, but COL is present)

 

and the second problem with the LOD's, the LOD node needs to be named 'lods', not lod..

 

edit-

you've also got the col linkd to the dev_map>objs node instead of the dev_col>col node and vice versa

 

 

 

------------------------------------------

Thanks. I called the node as "lods" and the error did't appear.

About Dev_map and Dev_col... I just followed the video tutorial

Still waiting for the fix for object appearing.

 

[GooD-NTS]

Making F.A.Q. for OpenIV/openFormats

 

I wanna make new FAQ section on OpenIV web site, because currently OpenIV don't have any kind of documentation.

If anyone was/have/will_have some questions about OpenIV, please lease it in comment for this post.

We are welcome any questions about OpenIV/openFormats.

 

p.s: if will no be activity in this direction, I will consider it like your not interesting in OpenIV anymore and I close project.

[TheChopShop]

so... you're blackmailing us into leaving comments on your site? xD j/k! lol

 

 

Thanks. I called the node as "lods" and the error did't appear.

About Dev_map and Dev_col... I just followed the video tutorial

Still waiting for the fix for object appearing.

as are we bro..

 

and did you happen to watch it in full screen? ..because the tutorial definitely does not show what you have set up

[GooD-NTS]

 

so... you're blackmailing us into leaving comments on your site? xD j/k! lol

No, I blackmailing you to making questions for FAQ. Where you will do this is totally never mind.

[TheChopShop]

well in that case.. blackmail FTW! thpppt

 

 

do you plan to support locked files to prevent mod theft? ..and assist/support Doomer in the creation of a locking option for .odr/.odd export?

..and go even further in a locking option for .obn/.obd? – as I see OIV already respects the Zm lock of extracted wft files :2bigthumbsup:

 

About locking files, WDR/WDD/WFT or any other RAGE/IV resources don’t support any locking features.

ODR/ODD and other openFormats files is simple text files and they not made for locking.

 

I was more leaning towards the OIV/OFs support of GIMS possibly locking exported mesh files (.odr/.odd/.obn/.obd), and whether or not it had been discussed with 3Doomer

..altho I didn't realize that the col files were broken down into text form, what about encryption? ..but concerning .odr/.odd export, locking our scratch work will be a necessity

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly cannot release a project that contains countless numbers of hours in scratch modeling and texturing without it being locked..

while without your tools it wouldn't be possible, in my mind, an unlocked mesh would be the equivalent of you and 3Doomer offering up the source code for OIV/OFs and GIMS

 

[_Charger_]

about locking: why the hell u wanna lock oF file formats? you will release only the WDR/WBN etc., so this files would need lock function. but as GooD said, it's not in the ressources, so someone has to code this function and in my mind it's not the sense of ressource files. if u make it in the code of the file, it could make the game unstable and that's not what we want isn't it?!

 

________________________________________________________________________________

 

about F.A.Q.

 

i think, a own wiki would be better. not liek wikipedia where everyone can write thigns in, but some mdoerators making articles and a forum where people can elave article themes and question. maybe only a few moderators like 5 persons wihich make articles in 2 or 3 maybe more languages

 

that's my mind and i would help making one

Edited March 25, 2011 by _Charger_

[3Doomer]

the only way's someone could make an encryption program and the asi plugin that'll decrypt resources in the game runtime

 

but this'll cause timeouts and slow object streaming...

[vans123]

man really i dont know if you got the point but chopshop has a pretty valid point man

there are alot of stealing rats around net, you never know when an asshole will try to mod...he will see he is usless than a fking rat and download your mod, do a kind off anime skin or even worse and say he made all the fking car,city or weapon...release it and there you GO! your fking mod which took you hours and you feel proud of it has been stole by an arse who has 1% of the fking idea how much effort it took!then cant wait for brazilian crows to download it and then modify it with some idiotic ideas like gigantic sound systems or paint made textures

 

Thats the why not only him but me too would ask lock ability to start releasing my job

[_Charger_]

but u hear 3Doomer it will make the game too slow. RAGE needs an (in my mind) extremly much resource, and then it will make the game more slow?? no chance to get that working. all people who don't have a really really good computer won't play your mods then.

 

____

 

there is a second way getting that working, but it's too difficult. you need an hard coded encryption, but hw should taht work and you need both working encrypted and, for GTA IV files, unencrypted files.

Edited March 25, 2011 by _Charger_

[Chipsman]

I think that it makes no sense to encrypt models,

because in any case it can be easily obtained using the same 3D Ripper DX (and etc),

and against these types of programs any encryption does not help,

because the data is retrieved directly from videomemory.

 

[_Charger_]

I think that it makes no sense to encrypt models,

because in any case it can be easily obtained using the same 3D Ripper DX (and etc),

and against these types of programs any encryption does not help,

because the data is retrieved directly from videomemory.

and someone who want to have the models could decrypt tehm too. nothing is impossible

[TheChopShop]

idk.. there might be quite a few people here that were born yesterday.. but I certainly was not-

 

if Oleg can successfully lock wft/wdr files without 'damaging the game resources' :rollseyes:, and Kam could successfully lock mesh files via Max script file export, why can't you?

 

@Chipsman and anyone else trying to argue that it makes no sense;

you obviously possess no real modeling skills and have never spent tireless hours creating something that another would want to steal

 

OR

 

you're a thief

 

and you haven't used 3dr very much have you.. it doesn't work well at all, and if you do happen to get it to work, the resulting ripped models will be skewed and missing parts, which

pretty much renders the mesh useless (to any no talent thief who lacks the skill and knowledge to do anything with it.. because if they did, they wouldn't be stealing it in the first place)

 

and don't take these things the wrong way, I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm just calln a spade a spade..

as I have yet to meet one skilled modeler with the opinion that protecting his/her work makes no sense

 

and I stand by my original statement, in that handing out unprotected mesh files is the same as Doomer not encrypting his Max scripts, and GooD handing over the source code of OIV

neither of which is going to happen because they want to protect their works.. as do I - and I'm sure I speak for every scratch modeler that might use these tools in the near future

[_Charger_]

wft itself is only locked fr zmodeler iirc, if GooD makes a WFT and OFT support, it can convert zmodeler cars too i think. and as i said, each encryption through maxscript or wahtever could be decrypted

[3Doomer]

I really dont give a f#%k, why it doesnt work,and I wont fix smth only for this awfully bugged shadow mapper(which doesnt work for me, BTW)

 

there ll be wdr and wpl import in a pair of weeks

Edited March 25, 2011 by 3Doomer

[TheChopShop]

LOL

 

@Charger; that tool would be overkill, but if/when wft import/export into Max becomes available, I'm sure Doomer and GooD can be persuaded to respect the lock indigenous to Zm exported files

 

(altho kats like you that share the same erroneous mindset certainly don't make that persuasion any easier)

 

about third party decryption; I think it's nonsense.. thieves are too lazy to learn or do anything skilled themselves.. which is why they're thieves - so decryption isn't really a viable argument or con

 

[GooD-NTS]

 

as I see OIV already respects the Zm lock of extracted wft files :2bigthumbsup:

I really misunderstood what you saying here, can you explain what exactly you mean?

 

I was more leaning towards the OIV/OFs support of GIMS possibly locking exported mesh files (.odr/.odd/.obn/.obd), and whether or not it had been discussed with 3Doomer

openFormats files will not support for any native encryptions this is text files format like source codes of programs. openFormats made for developing mod's. You anyway can also distribute your mod's in openFormats but it be like open source soft, I mean open source mod's )))

 

about locking: why the hell u wanna lock oF file formats? you will release only the WDR/WBN etc., so this files would need lock function. but as GooD said, it's not in the ressources, so someone has to code this function and in my mind it's not the sense of ressource files. if u make it in the code of the file, it could make the game unstable and that's not what we want isn't it?!

GTA IV resource files don't have any native encryption or locking features. As 3Doomer says it can be added by additional ASI module.

 

]about F.A.Q.

 

i think, a own wiki would be better. not liek wikipedia where everyone can write thigns in, but some mdoerators making articles and a forum where people can elave article themes and question. maybe only a few moderators like 5 persons wihich make articles in 2 or 3 maybe more languages

 

that's my mind and i would help making one

As practice show, all is definitely never mind. But if you wanna to help me this is great.

 

man really i dont know if you got the point but chopshop has a pretty valid point man

I'm got the point.

 

there are alot of stealing rats around net, you never know when an asshole will try to mod...

Unfortunately, All what you upload to inet is common now, and not your anymore.

 

if Oleg can successfully lock wft/wdr files without 'damaging the game resources' :rollseyes:, and Kam could successfully lock mesh files via Max script file export, why can't you?

You think they locked? Ok. Try to open any of locked WDR/WFT models in lasted OpenIV and you will see how they locked.

 

and I stand by my original statement, in that handing out unprotected mesh files is the same as Doomer not encrypting his Max scripts, and GooD handing over the source code of OIV

neither of which is going to happen because they want to protect their works.. as do I - and I'm sure I speak for every scratch modeler that might use these tools in the near future

This not the same. I'm not encrypt OpenIV exe or something, just compile it.

The difference it you still can try to decompile OpenIV, but you anyway won't get sources because no one have decompiler that possible to make sources back. But in GTA IV resources format we have that decompiler.

 

ok, I not against locked/encryption option what you all want. But I really don't know other good method to make it without real encryption in asi module for the game. Because if in file sill be stored real data (like in zm2 locked files) anyone can get it.

[nkjellman]

I love this tool. Its very reliable. Spark IV was reliable but it did not support drag and drop, and also did not support adding files. The old Open IV had a cuple of bugs that would make the game crash when modding the IMG's. But I give you guys a lot credit for my EFLC map updates to IV mod. It would not be possable with out a reliable tool that supported adding files to img's, and making it a wholl lot faster with drag and drop. Good luck with your project.

 

But some info that may help you out with the RAGE reaserch project.

Some people were talking about it in another thread.

Whats the posability of a limmit adjuster for IV? It would be usefull for hacking the game limmits incase our maps are big so they need more room in the game world, if our maps are big where they pass the limmit for the ammount of Polygons or objects created, or if our maps are tall and need the hight limmit razed. Gostown paradice (when its fully converted to RAGE) and WTC would need the hight limmit razed. Gostown needs it razed because you would only be able to fly around the perimiter because its so tall, and WTC because of the heli pad on the roof would be useless in IV and TLAD so it would feel silly in those two games. I think that a limmit adjuster would be a good way to start finding more about the RAGE engine it self.

 

Also do you think you may ever implement SCO editing? It would be nice to be able to edit them to make our own missions. Luckaly with IV you can change the script files that came with the game to some extent whell still being able to use save files unlike GTA III, GTA VC, GTA SA, GTA LCS, and GTA VCS where if one single value is changed the saves arnt compatable. With SCO editing we may be able to make our own game modes for maltiplayer.

 

Another thing that would be usefull would be the ability to calculate model hashes. That way we know what to put in for the placement tool.

 

Last you should talk to GTA Random. He is finding out about path editing. Maybe a path editer for Open IV could help us bring our maps to life. But also because your looking into the RAGE engine I made a descovery about intereiors. It seems that they do spawn with the IDE's but as I was converting files for EFLC to IV I knoticed that there are files in the IMG's that make the intereiors be able to spawn. It names the intereior because the intereiors have a name set, then the game spawns them. I thought this info would help you out with cracking more files for IV.

 

But one thing. I do get an error messige when trying to open some wft files. Any way to fix this?

 

But good luck with this project. Its definitly taking modding in GTA IV a lot more than a step ahead.

Edited March 25, 2011 by nkjellman

[Chipsman]

 

Another thing that would be usefull would be the ability to calculate model hashes. That way we know what to put in for the placement tool.

 

 

ok, this feature will be implemented in next versions of OpenIV (you can get the hashes for a list of names at a time)

 

but now can to use my mini-tool GetHash

[Mark01]

 

ok, I not against locked/encryption option what you all want. But I really don't know other good method to make it without real encryption in asi module for the game. Because if in file sill be stored real data (like in zm2 locked files) anyone can get it.

Some experienced coders will always find a way to unlock the files... remember SA ? it wasn't really a lock but well, I think it's not a big of a deal right now there's more important stuff you should focus on but I kind of agree with vans on this one, people who steal mods are a pain in the ass for the modders and doesn't know the word respect, it's like they don't know that all the stuff we release are free, needs a lot of efforts and in the end are released for them to enjoy...

 

Anyway much respect Good and Doomer for what you've achieved/achieving it's great to see that there's still some generous and talented coders who have the balls to work on this and try to push things forward for the community, where's yours gtaforums award ?

[_Charger_]

]about F.A.Q.

 

i think, a own wiki would be better. not liek wikipedia where everyone can write thigns in, but some mdoerators making articles and a forum where people can elave article themes and question. maybe only a few moderators like 5 persons wihich make articles in 2 or 3 maybe more languages

 

that's my mind and i would help making one

As practice show, all is definitely never mind. But if you wanna to help me this is great.

of course i would help u by that. it's only my way to thank you for an awesome tool

[GooD-NTS]

nkjellman, thank you for your feedback.

 

Whats the posability of a limmit adjuster for IV?...

Maybe I will talk about it with listener later at this weekend.

Also do you think you may ever implement SCO editing?

SCO Editing this is big complicated problem, and we need much time to solve it, but currently we are busy with resources.

Last you should talk to GTA Random. He is finding out about path editing. Maybe a path editer for Open IV could help us bring our maps to life.

I think he need talk to 3Doomer and implement this function in GIMS.

 

But one thing. I do get an error messige when trying to open some wft files. Any way to fix this?

This is already fixed in next OpenIV.

 

 

Some experienced coders will always find a way to unlock the files... remember SA ? it wasn't really a lock but well, I think it's not a big of a deal right now there's more important stuff you should focus on but I kind of agree with vans on this one, people who steal mods are a pain in the ass for the modders and doesn't know the word respect, it's like they don't know that all the stuff we release are free, needs a lot of efforts and in the end are released for them to enjoy...

Yes your right, we currently focused on making openFormats for WDR/WDD and locking/encryption stuff can wait for awhile.

...where's yours gtaforums award ?

You need ask this question to the community

 

 

of course i would help u by that. it's only my way to thank you for an awesome tool

So, maybe you can make some articles about OpenIV/openFormats in tutorials section?

[_Charger_]

tutorials section. i would prefer an own wiki for it, i'm not a friend of tutorials section

 

but that kind of wiki you have to agree with and it needs to be set up. if u agree, could u pm me or write in ICQ or MSN because of the wiki?

Edited March 25, 2011 by _Charger_

[TheChopShop]

 

I really misunderstood what you saying here, can you explain what exactly you mean?

 

I'm saying if you extract a Zm locked wft file via OIV, it's still locked, so the files are not changed, 'optimized' or reformatted upon extraction/save/export in any way, which is great

 

 

You anyway can also distribute your mod's in openFormats but it be like open source soft, I mean open source mod's )))

 

uh yeah.. that's not happonen lol

 

 

You think they locked? Ok. Try to open any of locked WDR/WFT models in lasted OpenIV and you will see how they locked.

 

the viewer? that's simply rendering the model just as the game or 3d app does.. and has nothing to do with any protection

 

and if you mean hex; just like any random thief, I know nothing about about it and wouldn't know where to start.. which is

why protection is necessary ..and sure, an experienced coder can hack anything they want, but that narrows the playing field

from everyone can get their hands on our scratch work, to a few good hackers that wouldn't be interested anyway

 

 

This not the same. I'm not encrypt OpenIV exe or something, just compile it.

The difference it you still can try to decompile OpenIV, but you anyway won't get sources because no one have decompiler that possible to make sources back. But in GTA IV resources format we have that decompiler

 

I wasn't saying apples = apples ..your hard work is still protected from the majority, and if we don't have protection for our files, it would be the equivalent to publishing OIV or GIMS with the source code (an open book)

 

 

ok, I not against locked/encryption option what you all want. But I really don't know other good method to make it without real encryption in asi module for the game. Because if in file sill be stored real data (like in zm2 locked files) anyone can get it.

 

not the lazy no knowledge, no talent thieves that want something for nothing, and that's what matters most - I'm glad to hear you're open to the idea tho (your post ^ above), as none of this was meant for RIGHT NOW, but rather intended to do what it did.. which is start a discussion where these options would be considered, weighed and decided upon for future use - and even COL protection would be unnecessary, because we can clear the mapping -meaning if the mesh itself is extracted, it's still useless to someone with no skills trying to steal it (as these kind of people won't remap and/or retexture anything)

Edited March 25, 2011 by TheChopShop

[3Doomer]

*Path export's under construction, say hello to the player's skeleton now*

[GooD-NTS]

 

I'm saying if you extract a Zm locked wft file via OIV, it's still locked, so the files are not changed, 'optimized' or reformatted upon extraction/save/export in any way, which is great

OpenIV do nothing with any files while extracting.

 

the viewer? that's simply rendering the model just as the game or 3d app does.. and has nothing to do with any protection

Yes, viewer. I have 2 line of code to disable zM protection and can render file. I can render model = I can export/resave it to openFormtas without any zM protection. Because zM protection is nothing.

 

but that kind of wiki you have to agree with and it needs to be set up. if u agree, could u pm me or write in ICQ or MSN because of the wiki?

The separate wiki need some resources, but we need to discus it.

[TheChopShop]

 

OpenIV do nothing with any files while extracting.

 

yup.. already said that.. twice, thx for the 3rd time tho xD lol

 

 

Yes, viewer. I have 2 line of code to disable zM protection and can render file. I can render model = I can export/resave it to openFormtas without any zM protection. Because zM protection is nothing.

 

if that's the case, you're the only one in the past 3½ years to disable it.. no other wft/wdr or 3rd party tool does this -example; try to import a locked wdr with Shadow's script -error-

so while this protection might be 'nothing' to a coder like you, it's actually something to all of us who have relied on it for over 3 years now.. because it works - which is my entire point

 

also, why would you even bypass Zm's file security just to render some custom mods? ..if anything, if the file is locked, a big 'THIS FILE IS LOCKED' should come up on your viewer

failing to safeguard this protection, and going one step further to eliminate it just to view a model is lacking in respect and shows disregard for all the other modders in our community