Why GTAIV doesn't work

[abottig]

Let's see some screenshots with FPS overlay.

And no staring at walls. And don't lower your settings to cheat, either.

no cheating. i just ran fraps for the first time in IV.

 

60fps high - indoor

20fps low - mayhem

30-40 avg

 

not bad at all. as i recall the 360 version had frame rate issues, but nothing to serious. same here. it plays a lot like the 360 for me only with much better draw distance, detail, rendering, and plenty of traffic.

 

btw, i've turned my traffic down to 40. 100 is amazing(i've never seen that many cars on screen) but 40 saves my cpu, and that' still a lot more than console.

[S1lent0ne]

Ok, Mr. I'm-so-smart-I-coded-my-way-out-of-the-womb.

 

Not even getting into system specs, because frankly yours are marginal, I can run FarCry 2 on DX10, max settings, v.synched 1680x1050 at 60 fps (+/-5).

 

Given that (and you supreme godliness of all games pc) what would be your estimation on the fps I should get in GTAIV?

[abottig]

Good post.. straight forward non biased info.. Just how it should be written. Bravo

thanks!

[abottig]

 

Ok, Mr. I'm-so-smart-I-coded-my-way-out-of-the-womb.

 

Not even getting into system specs, because frankly yours are marginal, I can run FarCry 2 on DX10, max settings, v.synched 1680x1050 at 60 fps (+/-5).

 

Given that (and you supreme godliness of all games pc) what would be your estimation on the fps I should get in GTAIV?

yes, my specs are marginal. thank you for making my point for me. i never claimed my machine was "godly."

 

at least 5 times in this thread i explain that my rig is a decent gaming pc at best. it costs around $600. the point is that if you know what you're doing and your hardware is up to the task, it shouldnt be a problem to enjoy this game.

 

 

and.. i dont know how to code(i dont count html). i never claimed i could.

 

try again.

Edited December 14, 2008 by abottig

[Vicetopia]

You should be putting your troll skills to use in "Console VS PC Gaming" threads.

At least that way you'd have all of us on your side.

[abottig]

 

You should be putting your troll skills to use in "Console VS PC Gaming" threads.

At least that way you'd have all of us on your side.

i didnt ask for your support.

 

btw, what are you doing in this thread with your constant flames?

 

trolling?

 

ive gotten about the support i would have expected here. a lot of screaming morons who disagree, and just a few quiet voices who "get it."

[S1lent0ne]

Ok, Mr I-can't-answer-a-simple question.

 

Let's try this again, shall we?

 

I can run FarCry 2 on DX10, max settings, v.synched 1680x1050 at 60 fps (+/-5).

 

Given that what would be your estimation on the fps I should get in GTAIV?

 

 

[abottig]

 

Ok, Mr I-can't-answer-a-simple question.

 

Let's try this again, shall we?

 

I can run FarCry 2 on DX10, max settings, v.synched 1680x1050 at 60 fps (+/-5).

 

Given that what would be your estimation on the fps I should get in GTAIV?

what are your specs troll?

 

 

Edited December 14, 2008 by abottig

[Vicetopia]

I can run FarCry 2 on DX10, max settings, v.synched 1680x1050 at 60 fps (+/-5).

Stop being so vague if you want a straight answer.

 

Hey guys, I have brown hair and brown eyes, how much do you think I weigh?

I BET YOU MR. KNOW-IT-ALLS CAN'T GUESS!

[S1lent0ne]

Still trolling for an answer.

 

My specs > your specs.

 

I can run FarCry 2 on DX10, max settings, v.synched 1680x1050 at 60 fps (+/-5).

 

Given that what would be your estimation on the fps I should get in GTAIV?

 

Obviously, I don't have a sad system given the performance I stated. This is a simple test not of specs but of simple fps performance between 2 graphically intensive games.

 

(C2Q 6700, 4gb pc2, BFG 260GTX 896mb, Asus P5Q-Green, R-134 cooled 'cause I clock just a bit)

[abottig]

 

my specs > your specs

 

why does that matter? i never claimed to have some kind of uber-pc or anything like that. for the one-millionth time in this thread: i have a decent ~$600 gaming rig. that's it. i don't claim to have superior hardware(although my monitor/tv is pretty f*cking sick) but congratulations again on your excellent specs.

 

as for your question: if i were to start throwing out hard frame rates based on your specs i'd be talking straight from my ass, so i wont. however, i'd bet anything that you're getting better frames than i am considering your cpu and gpu are superior to mine. maybe around +10-15fps at similar settings, or very similar frames at higher settings.

 

what ARE your frame rates oh superior one?

Edited December 14, 2008 by abottig

[S1lent0ne]

With the beta nVidia drivers and the patch I'm getting about 40 (+10/-20). Out of the box I was getting about 30 with the same variant. The point is a simple but two fold one; I have a good (but not over the top) rig that runs most games very well but can't seem to run GTAIV that well. Therefore, although I agree there is a lot of complaint that should be re-directed at the hardware, there has to be at least a few fingers pointed at the software. The second point is that you probably shouldn't post as if you know all (and I'm glad I got you to say that yourself).

 

The game is not designed to only run well on systems with over the top specs, it is just a flawed design (that they are attempting to fix).

 

A few notes:

1) I lug my PC out of my office to hook it into a 40" 1080p screen every now and then and if it were not for my wife I'd leave it out there. (:

2) Off of Tiger Direct and spare parts I put my rig together myself for about $800

3) Yeah, I know this is the internet, but do we have to play E.E. Cummings?

[Bladerunner_UK]

...............i'd be talking straight from my ass, .............

Why change? You have been for the majority of this thread!

 

What we are trying to get through your THICK SKULL is that YES, WE KNOW YOU NEED A GOOD SYSTEM... BUT and that is BUT..

With the systems people have, they should expect a LOT better performance than they are getting.

It remains that unless you have an Xbox 360 controller you will have problems..FFS GTA is a DRIVING game of sorts, How the F**K did they NOT REALISE that some people may want to use a Wheel/Pedals setup???

 

This is a badly coded attempt at a port that was thrown together with the sole intention of getting it on the shelves ready for Christmas, regardless of whether is was actually finished or not.

Kindly get your nose far enough out of the collective assholes at R* long enough to see the truth.

 

 

And if I am a moron - (along with everybody else that isnt a 100% R* fanboy and agrees blindly with you), then you are a cock.)

[Quemical]

I agree with everything in the OP. Guys with high end rigs think they have king kong's D!ck

[abottig]

With the beta nVidia drivers and the patch I'm getting about 40 (+10/-20). Out of the box I was getting about 30 with the same variant. The point is a simple but two fold one; I have a good (but not over the top) rig that runs most games very well but can't seem to run GTAIV that well. Therefore, although I agree there is a lot of complaint that should be re-directed at the hardware, there has to be at least a few fingers pointed at the software. The second point is that you probably shouldn't post as if you know all (and I'm glad I got you to say that yourself).

 

The game is not designed to only run well on systems with over the top specs, it is just a flawed design (that they are attempting to fix).

 

A few notes:

1) I lug my PC out of my office to hook it into a 40" 1080p screen every now and then and if it were not for my wife I'd leave it out there. (:

2) Off of Tiger Direct and spare parts I put my rig together myself for about $800

3) Yeah, I know this is the internet, but do we have to play E.E. Cummings?

i think we've found common ground. i apologize if i came off as a know-it-all in the OP. that certainly wasn't my goal.

 

i also understand that this is not a perfect port. but it's not a failure either. so far, i'm getting better performance than 360. plus, more patches are on the way.

 

btw, i also use tigerdirect. i use them and newegg primarily. if you're in the market for a processor, microcenter guarantees the lowest prices. which reminds me; they have a brick-and-mortar microcenter in my hometown of cambridge, ma, which also happens to be the birthplace of e. e. cummings. but i'm afraid i don't understand your reference to him.

 

 

[abottig]

It remains that unless you have an Xbox 360 controller you will have problems

false.

[Bladerunner_UK]

It remains that unless you have an Xbox 360 controller you will have problems

false.

So, if you have a G25 etc, then just follow R*s recommendations, and unplug it and remove the drivers...then GTA 4 will work OK.

How about reading threads other than ones you start?

[abottig]

It remains that unless you have an Xbox 360 controller you will have problems

false.

So, if you have a G25 etc, then just follow R*s recommendations, and unplug it and remove the drivers...then GTA 4 will work OK.

How about reading threads other than ones you start?

you said that IV wont work without a 360 controller.

 

i said that was false.

 

i play with mouse and keyboard.

 

your statement is still false.

 

 

[Vicetopia]

I think he's talking about wheel/pedal setup... He said something about the G25...

[abottig]

I think he's talking about wheel/pedal setup... He said something about the G25...

it's late here... i'm just being difficult.

[S1lent0ne]

I gotta agree on the controller front - I was using the controller hack to get joystick support (because I hate crashing in a heli) and it was actually working very well. It would seem the patch 'fixed' that. Now I can't even have the thing plugged into my computer to play. Rockstar should have just hard implemented the crack as it seemed to be working just fine. Then all they would have to do would be to create a GUI for the settings and pay the original creators for doing their job for them.

[sonofhendrix]

Thats right comapred to the xbox360, your graphics maybe 10X the floating point capacity, 6.8X the Texture fill rate, 8.2X Pixel fill rate, 32X the shader piplines as is the case if you have an HD4870X2!

You system might have 8x the main memory and your CPU more cores and more power and in the C2-QUAD

 

But don't expect 8 X the performance of the xbox360. Because you will only get satisfactory performance even with these specs. You see the thought keeps crossing my mind (they want to sell Intel Corei7s) so the code is crippled to the point where you need this uber new CPU if you want to play it beyond the 360s performance.

 

 

[bp2018]

 

where was my sarcasm misplaced? in the title? im not really calling r* evil. that was sarcasm.

 

as for any other sarcasms you didn't pick up on: let me clarify, i stick to the OP. anything you read were i may slam r* or the game is complete sarcasm.

 

bp2018:

 

are you admitting that the cpu DOES handle rendering? a moment ago you were flaming me for saying it does(it really does). and AGAIN, for the third or fourth time now bp, i do not suggest that everyone overclock. thats ridiculous. i suggest that those who have the time and patience overclock if they have the right equipment. seriously, i have repeated that to you multiple times already.

 

bp you claim that i am not "literate" on the subject of building a pc? i have 5 years experience as a tech for two of the largest electronics retailers in America, including experience selling computers. i've built, repaired, and optimized more computers than i could ever count.

 

what are your specs bp? care to discuss them in depth? i bet you dont know jack sh*t about your own pc.

 

EDIT:

i7's arent the only pc's that can run the game bp. that is utterly false.

you REALLY have a problem reading don't you.

 

I said IF the CPU handles rendering then its a sign of a poor port.

 

Again as for overclocking, people SHOULDN'T HAVE TO IF IT WAS DESIGNED FOR 3 YEAR OLD COMPUTERS.

 

As for i7's being the only ones capable of playing well, again YOU DIDN'T READ CORRECTLY, I said they are the only ones getting proper performance, and even then they are not getting what they should be when coupled with the best gaphics cards available.

 

You really need to start reading posts correctly and not seeing what you want to see in order to try to act above everyone else.

 

As for saying what experience you have, anyone can do that, hell, I work at NASA developing new rocket systems for intersteller travel, and even then our computers are bottlenecked by this port.

"IF" the cpu handles rendering? it does. let me teach you something here: the cpu handles rendering(not to mention shadows, traffic, and distance detail) in GTAIV. just a few posts ago you slammed me saying that it was a "crock of sh*t." have you finally learned this?

 

and AGAIN: i7's are NOT the only ones playing well. i do not have an i7, yet i still get near 40fps. in fact, my pc is cheap; around the $600 range. also, read the threads from people who are running it smoothly. there are plenty of happy gamers who are using core 2 duo's--not i7's.

 

also, AGAIN: im not saying everyone should overclock. however those who have the means SHOULD. it's a safe and easy way to get added performance. if you disagree that overclocking is safe and easy using the correct components, which it seems you do, then you really need to pick a new topic to flame. overclocking has entered the mainstream in an age of moderately priced aftermarket parts and the ability of processors(like the core 2) to overclock substantially higher than stock speeds(e.g. +33% clock, +50% fsb), while maintaining at or near stock voltages and temperatures.

 

and ill ask this AGAIN: do you care to discuss your system specs? no? why not? because you really are clueless? yes you are, and i doubt you will EVER answer this question. have you ever even opened a pc?

JESUS CHRIST, I SAID READ FOR GODS SAKE, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU!

 

Fine one last god damn time, lets see if you can keep up this time shall we, ill be sure to use smaller words for you.

 

 

It's called a niche...

 

It's been designed with the PC gamer in mind. The PC gamer and the console gamer are two different animals.

 

 

do you know anything at all about this port? no you don't. r* CONFIRMED that the cpu handles thses things. btw. its common knowledge by now. and i am not a code monkey. unless you count html.

 

So as I was TRYING to explain to you, yet you seem a little to slow to understand, your OP suggests its designed for the PC enthusiast, yet you're also saying the game is basically running in software mode and emulating things the GPU should be doing, real smart jack ass.

 

 

oops. i forgot that the reading level around here is at about 3rd grade.

 

You say we have a reading level of a third grader yet you can't read yourself, again, you're a jackass.

 

 

the game's performance my not be consistent on "reasonably good computers" because it's not designed for "reasonably good computers."

 

It's designed for the niche market to enjoy. I know it sounds bad, but n00bs need not apply when it comes to PC gaming

.

 

So its DESIGNED so people have to mess about for days on end until they can get it playable... yeh seems like a good plan for a company...

 

 

every pc game has spec related issues. it just so happens that this is the biggest game of all time. can you imagine if halo had come out on PC? it'd be the same "mess" that everyone(n00bs) says this game is.

 

You continue to explain you are a PC enthusiast yet didn't know halo had been out on PC for many years? God you ARE slow.

 

 

i do apologize if i came off that way. however, what i have posted is the truth. the average console gamer is simply not welcome in the world of pc gaming. as you can see by looking around this board, it is filled with people who lack computer knowledge and/or the right hardware.

 

SO what you are saying, is that although most people have hardware that EXCEED the recommended yet still can't get it working, that they should be REQUIRED to mess about for days to get it to work? What a jackass, thats not how games are designed otherwise it would be released as a "puzzle" or something equally as stupid.

 

 

i applaud your coding prowess. it's awesome, really. congratulations.

 

but it doesn't make you an authority in any way. read the OP. that's the truth. it's how the market works. why do you think they haven't done a recall? because the people that the game was meant for are not having a problem with it! have you read the interview on IGN? they basically confirm EVERYTHING i have said.

 

Yep, the poll they did which showed over 60% of people cant even play it sure does support that... (if you couldnt tell THAT was sarcasm)

 

I could go on all day but the point is, you don't know jack, you're not an enthusiast if you think running a game in software mode is the way its meant to be, you even mentioned you couldn't wait to get a new graphics card so you could crank up the graphics, but if its done CPU side, what exactly is a GPU going to do, way to contradict yourself... again.

 

Short story you're a jack ass whos thread is full of fail, seriously im not even going to bother replying to this thread again as it is apparent you cannot read or comprehend what people reply to you with and simply read it as what you want, so have fun with your "enthusiast" lifestyle eh.

 

FYI the game runs just fine on my computer, faster than it does on yours and only drops below 30fps at star junction during heavy traffic and rain, but the fact it DOESN'T run on a $3,000 computer with a fresh windows install can't be a case of poor computer maintenance, seriously think before you type.

[Bladerunner_UK]

I think he's talking about wheel/pedal setup... He said something about the G25...

it's late here... i'm just being difficult.

You are a cock

[abottig]

I think he's talking about wheel/pedal setup... He said something about the G25...

it's late here... i'm just being difficult.

You are a cock

What a great example what this board has turned into.

[Kurgen]

I think he's talking about wheel/pedal setup... He said something about the G25...

it's late here... i'm just being difficult.

You are a cock

What a great example what this board has turned into.

You should feel proud... you are after all instrumental in creating a fair amount of that dissent with your elitist, disparaging remarks. ...and no, your recent claims that it was all sarcasm is falling on deaf ears - we're pissed-off with GTA, not just plain old stupid.

 

 

[albieg]

I think he's talking about wheel/pedal setup... He said something about the G25...

it's late here... i'm just being difficult.

You are a cock

What a great example what this board has turned into.

No, just a fellow LFSer who knows how good software is written.

 

I know too, you don't. It's as simple as that, and it shows.

[Mr Heckler]

It's called a niche...

 

It's been designed with the PC gamer in mind. The PC gamer and the console gamer are two different animals.

 

The PC gamer is an enthusiast who takes pride in his rig. They buy graphics cards, and high performance memory. They overclock, and use watercooling. They run benchmarks and stress tests. They drool over things like aftermarket cooling, L2 cache, and tight RAM timings. They are the people you call to fix your PC when you f*cked it up.

 

When a game like GTAIV comes out, the PC gamer dreams of pushing it to it's limit with newer or overclocked hardware. Generally, the PC gamer has more disposable income to spend on their rig. Rockstar gets this, and so do a lot of PC game makers. They purposely make it so that you need a sick system to run their games. Then, they go a few steps further and make sure that you need a REALLY sick computer to run at MAX settings. It's a niche market.

 

The console gamer just wants to pop it in and play. He says, "I payed $300 for this thing and I should be able to play any game that they release for it!" And he is right. He should--and can--play games that are released for it. He should stick to his console.

 

Unfortunately, the console gamer also applies this philosophy to his PC. In some cases the console gamer's PC cost more than his xbox or ps3. The ways PC's are marketed, it's very easy to think you are getting a great gaming rig, when in fact you aren't. These things are best left to the PC enthusiasts.

 

So that's Rockstar's evil secret. They made a kick-ass game for all the 360 and ps3 owners. Then, they made a great game for the PC enthusiasts who have the time, money, and know-how to use the game now and eventually push it to it's limits and MAX out all settings.

 

If you fit into the category of PC enthusiast/gamer, then you know what I'm talking about. If not, then please uninstall GTAIV and fire up your console version.

 

...Me? I own an Xbox360 and the rig you see in my sig. I sold my 360 copy of GTAIV, picked up the PC version, and would never look back. For those who have the means, the PC version is the ONLY way to play GTAIV. Otherwise, stick to the console. Nothing wrong with that though. The console version still kicks ass!

 

BTW, to the people who have Anti-Rockstar signatures:

Are you seriously telling me that when the next GTA comes out for console that you won't buy it? Bullsh*t. I'll see you all at the next midnight launch!

 

 

OK.. let me respond

 

 

1: Are you a complete idiot?

 

2: It's not a niche game for a niche market... More people have PC's than consoles... the true PC enthusiasts probably don't even have a console... what's the point of shelling out silly money for inferior graphics and no upgrade path. A PC can last even a serious gamer for years as they will upgrade a few key components to boost performance. But the life of a well built system is longer than that of a console. My last system was over 5yrs old and wasn't even highest spec when I built it... and it's only this year that it has started to struggle with new games coming onto the market... When I built that the PS2 was still building it's momentum (at elast over her as we got it a lot later than the rest of the world).

 

3: GTA is probably one of the best know series of games for PC (and console), it ranks up there with Quake, Unreal Tournament and Counterstrike... A niche game would be played by a niche market and this is clearly a mainstream game.... Started of as a niche game, but lost that status with GTA3.

 

4: The majority of PC gamers are non technical people... They want their games to run out of the box on PC's that are within the recommended specs given by the developer... like a console does. That's not a bad thing, and we should all be expecting that... but the truth is that we have been screwed so many times over the last couple of decades... that we expect games to be released with bugs because we can download a patch... Have you not noticed that before broadband became widely used patches were small files... sincxe broadband they have become huge, hundreds upon hundreds of MB in size to fix the larger problems caused by buggy software. Patches are an excuse for sloppy workmanship and we have simply got used to it that we bend over each time and take it. Having more console gamers coming to the PC is a very good thing because they don't have this inbuilt conditioning and don't like it... Let them kick up a stink and make their demands (preferably politely and concisely) as it might make developers rethink their current attitude of releasing buggy software band letting the users test if properly. I have been a games tester, I know how to try and f*ck a game up just by playing it... trying to force the game to crash and glitch by doing things you aren't supposed to do... that's called proper testing... and it's not been done to a high enough standard on this game.

 

5: Before the oh so predictable comeback.. no I am not a console gamer... I am a universal one. I prefer certain types of games to be played on my PC and others on a console... I do not own a PS3 or a 360.. but I do own a Wii as it's far more enjoyable than the other 2. No game has ever been released that will make me want to buy a console... nor will it force me to buy a new PC just to run it... I upgrade as and when I need to (hardware failures or when a system is no longer capable of keeping up with the new games). I've been around the IT game for so long I've forgotten more than most people know. I started building my own machines over 12yrs ago after years and years of buying them prebuilt... I remember my first 486 with a turbo button, I remember my old 386 SX2 that took some special dos boot disks to enable me to play X-Wing and then Tie Fighter... yeah that takes me back and I wish they'd make another one as it's been 10yrs since X-Wing Alliance.

 

6: The game is badly optimized... it has memory leaks and it doesn't work with certain combinations of hardware. It's not been written for future hardware that doesn't exist... if you believe that PR bullsh*t then you are not a PC gamer really either... It's a con, a bit of spin designed to deflect and divert attention away from their failure to code the game adequately... Likewise some of the claims being made by people on here that their mid range PC is running it max settings on a high res... lies and spin... some get a kick out of lying to others, some lie because they (and their systems) are probably inadequate and some simply don't have a clue and think because they can run it looks good, it must be at the best settings... Most people are latching onto the mob mentality right now... we getting them taking a side and shouting the equivalent of "I'm Spartacus" alongside their chosen side.... Me I'm firmly entrenched in the middle trying to keep an open mind and hoping they fix all the problems... and that Rockstar Toronto have at least had their Xmas bonus retracted and holidays reduced to fix it.... actually that's not quite true... I actually hope they have all been fired for incompetence and Rockstar North have taken over the fixing.

 

7: I'd never buy a console to play a certain game... so I'd never buy a GTA game on a console... and unlike most of the sheep out there in PC and console land... I have principals and if I make a decision I stick to it. Right now that means if rockstar don't fix this game, I will never BUY another one of their games again. They have lost my respect, their credibility and my custom. Only they can restore my confidence in their products and no amount of hype and PR bullsh*t is ever going to convince me otherwise... They have to fix this game and produce a follow up that has been properly coded to run on existing hardware and has been properly tested.

 

 

[albieg]

Mr Heckler, you are so damn right.

 

And to talk a bit about myself, I'm a gamer since I was 12 when I bought a Commodore 64 (yes, I'm that old), I work in the IT industry as a system/network administrator in a software house, I own 4 computers at home, I have a pair of Microsoft certifications (and a Novell one) and I've never seen such a blunder in my whole entire career.

 

That's my background, and that's why I can say that GTAIV code on the PC is a huge pile of crap: its technical merit is almost completely destroying the artistical merit I find in this release.

 

 

I am pissed off too.

[h34v3ns3nt]

Drop your uneducated elitism, the fact here is that this game (just like the 3 previous ones) is a console game ported for the PC (in 7 months).

This game and all the technology in it was "designed" to push the latest consoles to the max, not the PC. The game doesnt use PC hardware efficiently because it wasnt programed for the PC in the first place. IV doesnt even warm up your GPU.

 

If you think you have alot because you get 30 fps on this i have news for you, you could have 60 fps, you could have better graphics (those shadows eww), you could have a DX10 render mode, you could have antialiasing but you dont.. and you wont.

 

IV is just like SA, my previous PC was far more powerfull and capable than a PS2, but the game was made primarily for the PS2 so my eyes had to get used to that, end of story.

 

And you claim that the PC gamer buys this and this and that.. well this PC gamer doesnt buy this and this and that.. i do the research and keep up with whats out there (software and HW) but when i upgrade i buy future proof components to get the most out of my hardware/money, i dont buy hardware to paste on sigs or to brag about frame rates on the internet, i buy it to game with and enjoy my games.

 

IV could run on mid range specs, if it was developed properly for the PC it would be scalable and more people would buy it and enjoy it (at lower settings) but if R* were to build IV for the PC from scratch we would have to wait alot more than 7 months, it would take so long that it wouldnt even be worth it.

 

You came here trying to representing PC gamers but you failed miserably, dont do it again.

Thank you .

what he said ^