Good companies develop for PCs, then port

[PanzerIV]

damian001: I think people are mad because they *already* shelled out a grand and can't play the game.

 

Rockstar can't be allowed to rewrite the rules in the middle of the game,

 

recommended requirements and minimum requirements mean too completely different things, and we have full right to be mad if even after the patch the real "minimum" requirements are what the box said for recommended.  No one should be required to have a 3 Ghz quad core to play the game because the box told us we would require a 1.8 ghz core 2 duo, which at this point is a joke.

Actually even people with Quad cores at 4Ghz + Radeon HD4870X2 can't even play it decently... Rockstar did a huge lie there, they only deserve to get hang in public and/or sued for ripping us off. It's unplayable on my E8400 4.32Ghz, 2Gb of memory and HD4870 512Mb

 

No doubt the PC version will sell 50x less than console, the way it is currently. I'm glad I haven't paid for GTAIV and downloaded it. From now on, only the companies that will be coding on PC first and that will make good games will deserve my hard earned money. This includes ID Software "ETQW", Monolith "F.E.A.R. 2" and Valve. Epic used to be a company I respected a lot but with what they did to UT3 I really hate them now. They even made me waste 56$ on that game cause I preloaded it since I was a very huge fan of UT since the first one back in 1999.

[DML]

I'm glad I haven't paid for GTAIV and downloaded it. From now on, only the companies that will be coding on PC first and that will make good games will deserve my hard earned money.

Unfortunately it's a "catch 22" with the Grand Theft Auto series. Rockstar are not after the better game and the better experience for the end-user, they are simply after money - as has been said by many ("they are a game company in a console-pandering world, so expect cock-sucking behavior").

 

If people as a whole simply refuse to buy the PC version, then Rockstar will keep making the game for consoles...as they are obviously better-trained in the development for them now, and they will continue to get paid by Microsoft AND Sony for their (poor) efforts in doing this.

 

This is a very vicious cycle, and it WAS NOT TRIGGERED BY PIRACY. It was triggered back in 1999/2000, with a deal struck with Sony to have "exclusive" releases of new GTA titles on their toy only. This deal led to increased piracy/decrease sales of the PC versions thanks to them being 6-month-late console ports, and games which were/are not up to scratch with other PC games at the time of release.

 

The ball has always been in Rockstar's court to do the right thing with GTA, but they have not, are not, and probably never will go back to the days of developing the game for PC first and porting from there. Maybe if Sony and Microsoft went bankrupt; crashing and burning into a stinking pile of failure, then we may have a chance to get not just GTA, but the entire gaming industry back on track again.

[[email protected]]

Wawawaaaa more babycrying. STFU and get a refund if you don't like it.

I would if a could, EB just said to shove the $80AU i spent on this game up my ass because it has "online activation" aka "DRM"

 

So little console fanboi, please be immature more!

[[email protected]]

Unfortunately it's a "catch 22" with the Grand Theft Auto series. Rockstar are not after the better game and the better experience for the end-user, they are simply after money - as has been said by many ("they are a game company in a console-pandering world, so expect cock-sucking behavior").

 

R* lick all orphises.

 

I just hope their next game crashes and burns like EA's various cash cows

[Vercetti Gangsta]

 

The ball has always been in Rockstar's court to do the right thing with GTA, but they have not, are not, and probably never will go back to the days of developing the game for PC first and porting from there.  Maybe if Sony and Microsoft went bankrupt; crashing and burning into a stinking pile of failure, then we may have a chance to get not just GTA, but the entire gaming industry back on track again.

With that said, I believe that we're entering (or already have entered) an era where Rockstar are slowly dying as the reputable company they once were. Sales will drop due to the lack of customers and the lack of customers will come from the bad game quality and PR.

 

Sure they will still sell good, but their marketing ways will bite back eventually.

[divinee]

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirate...of-2008-081204/

[DML]

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirate...of-2008-081204/

That's interesting. Not relevant to the discussion, but interesting.

[Irrati0nal]

Back on topic...

 

Games are a business for these companies first and foremost.  The reason all the former PC exclusive and PC first developers are jumping on the console bandwagon is because that's where the money is currently at.  Epic saw this with Unreal Tournament 3, Valve saw this with The Orange Box, and id saw this with Doom 3 which all enjoyed much higher sales on consoles as opposed to PC.

 

This reasoning is precisely why a majority of titles are ported from the consoles to the PC and not the other way around.  For most companies, the PC is simply another platform to support, not the platform to support.

Not all of them. I know for a fact that the PC version of the Orange box sold twice as much as both console versions put together, and the only reason Valve did a PS3 version was due to EA wanting to do it.The reason the PC did better was because Valve put the PC first. They developed it on the PC and ported it over, they support the PC version well after with regular updates and frankly if you buy a Valve game you know it's going to be well optimized and relatively bug free. I'm surprised Microsoft certified this, if this was the 360 version i bet they would have rejected it, yet for the PC it's good enough.

Exactly.

 

People complain about the PC, give all their ridiculous reasons as to why PC Gaming is dying (too expensive, blah blah blah) yet companies like Valve, Blizzard, Maxis, Firaxis, and Stardock who continue to make games on PC that sell a ton, and none of them even need the console business to stay alive.

 

And why is that? Because they create their games FOR the PC, rather than porting over console games and being lazy about it. You could put Bethesda in that as well, but even they are leaning more towards console than PC now. But at least they still respect their PC audience enough to put a good amount of effort into that version.

 

I'm getting sick and tired of companies being so freaking lazy in regards to the superior platform. People can say all they want that console gaming is "easier." Fine, go ahead. But the BETTER platform is PC, and it's not even close. There is so much more room for creativity, graphical enhancements, etc, I don't understand how people can even debate this. And it gets pretty aggravating to see these companies lazily port their games over to PC rather than making a PC unique version from the ground up.

 

Consoles should be treated as one platform, and PC should be treated as another. Any PC game which is made from the ground up, for the PC and is a quality game sells very well. More than well enough to make up the cost that it took to make it when you consider the fact that these companies don't have to pay licensing/royalty fees to MS or Sony when it comes to PC game sales. But piracy is apparently these companies "outs" in having to put effort into a PC game anymore. They use the excuse that it's not worth making a great game since everyone will pirate it, when all they're doing is giving people a reason to pirate games. Over time, consumers will turn on you if you stop making good products. That's just the way it goes.

 

It pains me to say it, but I'd rather see the Rockstars of the world just stop making games for PC if they're going to be lazy about it. I LOVE PC Gaming, and I'm sick and tired of seeing these companies spit on the platform that is the reason why Xbox 360's and Playstation 3's exist. You see the potential of GTA IV, but the laziness is what stands out and it makes the game near unplayable. Playing games shouldn't raise your blood pressure, but having to deal with this stuff on all these console ports is really starting to aggravate me.

HERE ,HERE PLUS ONE!!!!!!

[divinee]

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirate...of-2008-081204/

That's interesting. Not relevant to the discussion, but interesting.

wrong thread

[NecroViolator]

rofl pc fanboy. gta 4 sold 11M on consoles while pc wont even sell 1M. pwnt?

Thats because IT DOESNT RUN on the PC so good...

Since when is it so hard to program a game on the PC instead of just porting the crap...

[RedEnd]

 

They make it for console first, because that will bring a lot more money.

Yep, and they all blame the piracy. I don't think its a real reason if they just make a good games and don't ruin it with protection softwares. Great example of succeful PC game company is Valve.

of course

if you make a good PC game, people will buy it..

i have The Orange Box and CS Anthlogy and going to buy CS:S soon too

Valve i also good for giving you more than 1 game in a package (the retail version of CS:S have also Half Life 2 Deathmatch and Day Of Defeat : Source)

 

 

but if they port a game from PC to a console.. oh well i suppose the console would explode / will run it on med-low on a crappy res

[Th3 ProphetMan]

Who the hell develops for PC, then port? o.O Nobody.

 

Sad but true, gears of wars, mass effect, etc all go to console first. if anything there are exclusive games like crysis, only one i know, and a few that get to pc the same time than console and even then they get to pc with less options than a pc could get, that is, making the game work on the lowest comon denomitator (left 4 dead, ut3, nfs series and extreme etc..)

 

Also if you developed a pc game and all of a sudden wanted to port it to a consoles, chances are some features would have to be removed

 

Nobody develops for PC, then ports, that's the reality like it or not. So stop the BS about good companies and how you hate r* all of a sudden. GTA is a complex game, specially one taht uses many technologies you we dont know if the problems are comming from their engine, or from the euphoria engine, or directx, or gpu drivers, or a mix of several things.

Edited December 7, 2008 by Th3 ProphetMan

[DML]

 

...dont know if the problems are comming from their engine, or from the euphoria engine, or directx, or gpu drivers, or a mix of several things.

So basically, we don't know what area they've overlooked or programmed badly, so we shouldn't make any specific accusations at this point.

 

If DirectX, GPU drivers etc, are to blame, then the exact same issues should be appearing with every other game...since they're not, it is a result of Rockstar porting from the console to the PC...and doing a pretty piss-poor job of it at the same time.

[Sporbie]

Yeah why is everybody always blaming the drivers, didn't it ever occur to them that the devs should fix the game so it works with the drivers and not that Ati and Nvidia should fix their drivers to work with the games.

[d1337r]

Honestly, if R* would release GTA4 for PC FIRST, I would buy the licensed game.

[One-time]

 

Who the hell develops for PC, then port? o.O Nobody.

You might not know that Mafia was released on PC first, then ported poorly to PS2 and Xbox. Illusion softworks was the master at PC game coding at that time.

[number1fanny]

Who the hell develops for PC, then port? o.O Nobody.

 

Sad but true, gears of wars, mass effect, etc all go to console first. if anything there are exclusive games like crysis, only one i know, and a few that get to pc the same time than console and even then they get to pc with less options than a pc could get, that is, making the game work on the lowest comon denomitator (left 4 dead, ut3, nfs series and extreme etc..)

 

Also if you developed a pc game and all of a sudden wanted to port it to a consoles, chances are some features would have to be removed

 

Nobody develops for PC, then ports, that's the reality like it or not. So stop the BS about good companies and how you hate r* all of a sudden. GTA is a complex game, specially one taht uses many technologies you we dont know if the problems are comming from their engine, or from the euphoria engine, or directx, or gpu drivers, or a mix of several things.

here here, thoroughly well said!

[Mr Heckler]

 

I think anyone who buys a console just to play a certain game is basically an idiot, a sheep to stupid to know that when the wolf comes knocking... you RUN AWAY.

 

For me to buy a console it has to be able to keep me entertained with a variety of things... Not just one or two games that are pretty good (in console terms). Gameplay is the key factor in any choice I make, longevity is the other. I am sick to death of games being touted as having 'great, realistic, superb, lifelike' graphics and so forth... but the gameplay sucks.

 

I've played GTA games on consoles and handhelds... and they all suck balls in comparison to their PC counterparts. GTA-SA I first played on the PS2 and I thought it looked good... then I played it on the PC and the detail was so much better, the view distance was greater, no popups... it wasn't perfect by a long shot. But it was 500% better than the console version.

 

Games sell consoles though (to the moronic masses)... and it pays to try and get the exclusive. Because people will buy a console just to play a certain game before others... Makes them feel superior and their lives suddenly have meaning to them. Those of us with brains on the other hand laugh at their stupidity.

 

Even in it's current state GTA 4 is on par with if not better than the console versions... when the problems are resolved it will be so far ahead that console gamers will be jealous of those who waited for the superior version... Mind you, the majority with consoles probably won't ever see it on a PC or will refuse to believe that their hard earn cash (or xmas prezzies from mummy and daddy) could possibly have wasted.

 

With my PC I can do everything well, with a console I can do a few things averagely and some not at all... Why waste 300 on a console that will soon be forgotten and shoved under the TV not being used.. when I can do everything and more on one machine that is used every day for several hrs at a time.

 

My last PC lasted me 5yrs after I built it, a few upgrades here and there.. mostly larger or extra hard drives for capacity requirements. My new PC should do me just as long, it's only a small step down from the top end systems out now. I may upgrade the video card at some point, fit a larger HD... But seeing as I am saving 50% on the cost of games Vs consoles... I can afford to buy a larger HD and 2 games for what a console game would spend on 2 games alone.

 

No need to buy addons like memory cards, extra controllers, expensive extra cables so the game runs in HD on the TV because the maker didn't include them in the box with the console, and instead get you to fork out a little extra to enjoy the HD side of things,.. Nope, I spent £4 on a DVI to HDMI cable to replace the RGB one I used to have hooking my PC to my HD TV.

 

My PC is used as a media centre, games machine, web machine, email machine, office machine, dvd player, video editor, photo editor... all using high end software,... it's a master of all trades, not a upstart PC wannabe.. which is what all consoles are really. It's trying to bring PC gaming to the masses.... if they really wanted to get console gaming to the masses... Sony, Nintendo and MS should join together and produce a console based around the x64 architecture... The original Xbox proved this is possible and it makes console to PC ports so much simpler and easier.

[number1fanny]

^ It's a lot better on 360 than PC buddy.

[iRocco]

MAss Effect from Bioware was an awesome port, they way it should be... hm well, i think games should be launched on all gaming platforms, pc´s were the first and now are f*cked, because lazy, idiots with no understanding of technical things buy overprized consoles.

[Th3 ProphetMan]

...dont know if the problems are comming from their engine, or from the euphoria engine, or directx, or gpu drivers, or a mix of several things.

So basically, we don't know what area they've overlooked or programmed badly, so we shouldn't make any specific accusations at this point.

 

If DirectX, GPU drivers etc, are to blame, then the exact same issues should be appearing with every other game...since they're not, it is a result of Rockstar porting from the console to the PC...and doing a pretty piss-poor job of it at the same time.

It's not only R* because for many games, nv and ati have released special drivers even before the game release. And its happening again with gtaiv actually, the 180.84 actually fixed many errors for me, like i couldnt change resolution or alt tab at all. That was fixed by the nvidia driver because companies have to cooperate a bit resolving some of the errors.

 

So i repeat R* is not necesary the only one to blame for all problems, neither the only ones that can help fix them. Not trying to say the arent to blame at all either.

[damian001]

 

damian001: I think people are mad because they *already* shelled out a grand and can't play the game.

 

Rockstar can't be allowed to rewrite the rules in the middle of the game, recommended requirements and minimum requirements mean too completely different things, and we have full right to be mad if even after the patch the real "minimum" requirements are what the box said for recommended.  No one should be required to have a 3 Ghz quad core to play the game because the box told us we would require a 1.8 ghz core 2 duo, which at this point is a joke.

Sure, they could've shelled out a grand when they bought their computer three years ago.

 

The only problem with PC gaming is that you need upgrades every year or so. PCs do have the highest requirements, but they provide the best experience in the end, that is if you have the money to afford it. The only reason why consoles are cash cows is because they cost only a few hundred dollars, and can run every new game flawlessly for the whole generation. The only problem is that they're run in an optimized setting.

[INFP]

 

i`ve heard that PC versions of games like GTAIV are actually held back late from console releases because they`ll sell more (and make a greater profit) from console sales. They do this because if PC and console go on sale at the same time they`ll actually sell less consoles!

 

BTW, PCs and Pc gaming won`t die. PCs by definition will always outlast the console. the console gamer has been warbling for years how the console is better than the PC and it`s never happened. But the console is a cash cow. the most that might happen is the console might simply merge into a less complex version of a PC in the end.

 

But the PC, like the good custom personal car that every true car fan will want to own and personalise, won`t die.

 

Of course this is why they held back the PC version, this whole game has been about selling consoles to the impatient and maximising the bigger profit margin console sales. It is a business after all, lets not fool ourselves into thinking that a company gives a crap about the customer as an individual, we're just a group they can get money out of.

 

The PC won't die as a gaming platform, especially if they manage to do what I think GFWL and steam are trying to accomplish, which is effectively trying to turn the PC into a console (a closed environment).

 

Of course piracy does have an effect, but on decent games that are worth buying I think this effect is overestimated. A relatively, and sort of expected with modern games solution to this is to focus games around multiplayer rather than singleplayer. Use the singleplayer as a taster of better things to come from the multiplayer exerience, which is always superior in my opinion.

 

BTW, just out of curiousity.....can someone give me the names of the really good must have games that the consoles have that the PC doesn't?

[mt1104]

My computer cost me a little over £600 (alot of that was spent on 'quiet' components) and I get 40fps at 1620x1050 (iirc) which is perfectly playable. I have a quad core at 2.4Ghz, 4gig of ram and a hd4850 running vista business 64.

 

these components weren't particularly expensive imo, and I am perfectly happy with the game running capacity (though I would have liked to run it 1920x1200 but I am prepared to forgive this due to the awesomeness of the game).

 

What I am not so pleased about, is the seemingly rushed nature of the PC User-Interface:

 

- It doesn't remember your graphics preferences.

- Keyboard mappings only save if you change them before you start a game.

- You need three hands to drive and shoot at the same time.

- RSSC doesn't seem to remember my password.

- The options still has the xbox controller when you click to view controls.

- Would be nice if you could assign more than one key to an action.

 

If all these are addressed in the forthcoming patch then I'd be very happy. Well, apart from needing 3 hands, not sure there's away round that.

 

Also if they could lower the price of grenades that would be awesome

 

 

BTW, just out of curiousity.....can someone give me the names of the really good must have games that the consoles have that the PC doesn't?

 

Gran Turismo series for one

Edited December 10, 2008 by mt1104

[infinity04]

Wawawaaaa more babycrying. STFU and get a refund if you don't like it.

Please remember the real reason for why Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, it was not because he wanted to take over eastern Europe, it was because of poorly coded pc-games. And he hated console gaming, so please keep that in mind and understand why people complain. We don't want another world war.

Nicely said

[korn0413]

My game runs just fine, 30+ fps on high/highest so i cant complain too much, but I agree w/ the topic, that is the way it should be. And IF you are going to go console2pc then you should re-code the game to run off the pc, do not in any way port the bastard (case-in point).

[smokeythedemon]

Who the hell develops for PC, then port? o.O Nobody.

 

Sad but true, gears of wars, mass effect, etc all go to console first. if anything there are exclusive games like crysis, only one i know, and a few that get to pc the same time than console and even then they get to pc with less options than a pc could get, that is, making the game work on the lowest comon denomitator (left 4 dead, ut3, nfs series and extreme etc..)

 

Also if you developed a pc game and all of a sudden wanted to port it to a consoles, chances are some features would have to be removed

 

Nobody develops for PC, then ports, that's the reality like it or not. So stop the BS about good companies and how you hate r* all of a sudden. GTA is a complex game, specially one taht uses many technologies you we dont know if the problems are comming from their engine, or from the euphoria engine, or directx, or gpu drivers, or a mix of several things.

Someone hasn't heard of a game company called Valve have they?

[weedking]

I believe Mass Effect was originally a 360 exclusive and was later ported to PC. I own that game and it was a definite improvement over the 360 version. That game had it's share of issues initially too but was fixed with patch.

[disposeablehero]

rofl pc fanboy. gta 4 sold 11M on consoles while pc wont even sell 1M. pwnt?

LOL, only a retard thinks quality = quality? Yoi see the crap music that dominates the charts? Mass Appeal often means dumbed down to retards cna play it, PC gamers have much higher standards, console gamers buy any average crap because of sheer Stupidity.

[disposeablehero]

 

Who the hell develops for PC, then port? o.O Nobody.

 

Sad but true, gears of wars, mass effect, etc all go to console first. if anything there are exclusive games like crysis, only one i know, and a few that get to pc the same time than console and even then they get to pc with less options than a pc could get, that is, making the game work on the lowest comon denomitator (left 4 dead, ut3, nfs series and extreme etc..)

 

Also if you developed a pc game and all of a sudden wanted to port it to a consoles, chances are some features would have to be removed

 

Nobody develops for PC, then ports, that's the reality like it or not.  So stop the BS about good companies and how you hate r* all of a sudden. GTA is a complex game, specially one taht uses many technologies you we dont know if the problems are comming from their engine, or from the euphoria engine, or directx, or gpu drivers, or a mix of several things.

WOW, how ignorant are you:

 

CDPROJECT, GSCGAMEWOPRD, Blizzard, Valve, Stardock, Crytek, ID SOFTWARE, Relic, Creative Assembly, Obsidian Funcom, Ensemble, Pyrahana Bytes just a few off the top of my head. Dumb much? How many adventure games and strategy games are PC developed only? HEar of Bioware? There next RPG is PC developed, later being ported to console called Dragon Age, lol. On top of that we get 95% of console games worth playing and they are usually better on PC. Hear of Projecy Offset? Now a PC only game. Some of your stupidity amazes me.

 

NEws flash, ALL GAMES ARE developed on PC, then made to run on inferior console hardware using dev kits.

Edited December 11, 2008 by disposeablehero