R* vs. Pirates; why should we pay the price?

[Fisker]

I had hoped that at least after Mass Effect and Bioshock, the publishers would have learned their lesson: that everything gets cracked, and that the only ones that get punished by DRM are the loyal buyers, because they are the only ones who do not get a copy that is guaranteed to work. With DRM, the publishers lower the value of retail games and in turn raise the value of pirated games. Any game with online activation is probably worth more pirated than bought. And then they're wondering why people don't buy the games! It's basic economics: if you want people to buy your product, you have to offer them something in return. Instead, publishers are currently "fighting piracy" by lowering the value of the legal product more and more.

 

But at least this time it will be different: R* won't be blaming the bad sales of GTA IV for Windows on piracy. After all, they have this $200,000 copy protection that cannot be cracked, right?

I could just as well have said after "Leisure suit Larry" & "Monkey Island".

 

Copy protection have existed for ages, and time and time again all they really hurt is their costumers.

 

C64/Amiga days: Creating specially crafted floppies/tapes with an approach similar to bad sectors on a CD this day.

Pirates: Well lets just make software that takes those "bad sectors" into consideration so it rather clones the disk rather than attempt to read it, and then write to another disk.

Customers: f*cked, unless using similar programs by the pirates.

 

C64/Amiga/PC days: Games started using the manual or box as their copy protection, asking you to insert a certain word from a certain part of the manual.

Pirates: Cheat sheet or just removed the protection.

Customers: f*cked, unless using the cheat sheet or getting the protection removed.

 

You could go on, but really it's almost like history repeats itself, copy protection have highly relied on messing with the CD/DVD's in a way that makes it "impossible" to copy without losing the relevant information.

 

There is no point in fighting it, the last 20 years or so of copy protection history have shown us that, and in those 20 years there are really only 2 effective means of "copy protection", one being a CD-Key(Though that obviously only works for multiplayer games) and the other being some kind of release date check (usually in the form of encrypted data).

 

They don't make it impossible for the customer to backup his legally owned games, they don't install any programs, services, drivers, etc. to function and they are a lot more efficient.

[supersupra]

 

I honestly hope you're game starts crashing...then we'll see what kind of post you will be typing. You're "Almost all games that come out are either chock-full of bugs and artifacts and performance issues" comment is the funniest thing i have read for a long time please you should be a stand up comedian. Can i ask you a question? Do you turn your computer on all by yourself?

Am I not correct?

 

Can you state games that don't have bugs, artifacts or wrongdoings in them and never needed a patch?

 

I can't. Because it's impossible to have a game that perfect, because the devs don't have the ability to test it in all types of systems out today?

 

Also, make sense when you next post.

Yes, most games have bugs when they´re released, but GTAIV is in it´s own class.

 

It´s not acceptable, especially when you pay for it and then have to wait a "few weeks" (possibly) for patches to be able to play it. R* might as well "patched" it before release, so many obvious bugs.

[Drunk Russian 9]

Instead of issuing anti-piracy protection on the DVD, developers should target to take down torrent sites. I'll bet that would dramatically decrease piracy in both PC and console games. Not to mention legal buyers wouldn't have to "jump through hoops" and install unnecessary software which will anally molest their PC.

[medfreak]

Ah well. The only reason I will continue to buy retail packages of games is due to the fact that there is nothing greater than a fancy boxed colorful game with a manual to read in the bathroom while you drop turd bombs in your drain, thinking about what you are going to do the moment you step out of the bathroom all excited and running to your PC to run this new game.

 

It just has a sense of novelty that is unbeatable, not by Pirated versions, and not by legal digital downloads from Steam or D2D. I have been enjoying this feeling since the day I first bought a game for my MSX (which still runs btw) back in 1986.

[Smiler-Online]

They always point their fingers at the PC gamers as being the pirates, but look at the devs favorite console (the 360) that also has piracy problems...

 

 

so its obvious that they are lying about piracy... its most likely a cover up, because they aren't so great at developing PC games!

 

and I agree with a previous post, they should focus on ways of tackiling the piracy sites (thats if they are telling the truth when they say the piracy is the problem...)

[Laths]

I want to say, any sort of protection is pointless, useless.

 

I ordered my game 2 months ago. They shipped it on monday prior to the release date. I expected it to be arrived on wednesday but it didn't. Still I'm waiting the damn game.

 

So I don't want to spend the weekend without gta, and I downloaded it from the internet. It's cracked already. I'm playing it without problems (except graphic performance).

 

So what is the point of SecuROM? What is the point of spending thousands of dollar on a useless protection.

 

Games doesn't need any sort of protection. The key point is online play. If you want to have fun, you need a serial key. That is enough. And you don't annoy lots of people with securom thingy.

 

People love this game, people gonna buy this game for its multiplayer. And I'm sure rockstar gonna fix lots of its problems soon.

 

 

PS: By the way, games graphic option system = FAIL. Everything is connected to resolution. So I can't make it to 1440x900 because every other option scale to the max. I want to close Shadows completely but game does not allow me to do that. FAILED DECISION.

 

Someone, a modder, need to make a "advanced graphic options" thing to disable lots of system hogging thing.

[13th_Disciple]

"why should you pay the price?" because if you don't support great games with your meager offerings of cash then might i suggest you make your own GTA game and give it to ALL of us for FREE, there... will it be as good? i doubt it... i think talk of 'pirates' around these forums dilutes the core issues many genuine players are experiencing, post your pirate chat on pirate forums unless it's really relevant or necessary, but i honest think it has no place here, sorry to rant.

 

-13th

[Mr Heckler]

Go to the store and get ur cash back.

And I get tired of hearing this. Just so you know for future reference: You can not return opened software, you can only exchange it for the exact same thing. Once you buy it, its yours, there is no way to get your money back. Funny how we lose our rights in DRM but are expected to have complete and final ownership at retail.

 

 

There have been several test cases in court, where the consumer has won because the ELUA states something they don't agree with... but to read the EULA you have to attempt to install the software.

 

This not only renders the EULA unenforceable in law (civil or criminal) but violates several consumer rights (at least in the UK). I have returned items to the store when my PC didn't meet the min specs, only to be told I opened it... when I pointed out the store was deliberately putting it's pricing labels over the specs written on the exterior of the case and they cannot be removed without damaging the outer wrapper... and that they would not allow me to open the game in store to check... they caved and refunded my money.

 

Every store will try and fob you off with an excuse, but if you have the product in it's original packaging, the receipt and want to return it you have that right (may vary from country to country). If the item is not fit for the purpose for which it has been purchased, you are entitled to a full refund (inc shipping)... this is from UK's trading standards.

 

As said, it may vary from country to country... but some runt in a store will happily lie to you to avoid giving a refund. It's your job to go in fully aware of your rights and make sure they stick to the laws provided for the protection of the consumer.

 

Make scene, be loud and assertive... but don't be overly aggressive or abusive. State the facts and the law loudly but politely... make sure other customers can here you and if they have lied to you, make a big deal about it. If they still refuse, tell them you are going to contact trading standards (check out a few key phrases to use verbatim beforehand)... Use those big words, use the legal jargon... once they realise you are fully aware of the law they will either cave and refund, or be too stupid to realise they're wrong... in which case get trading standards involved and go to the media.

 

Of course, most of that is relevant to people in the UK, but spend 20 mins researching your countries laws and guidelines and go prepared... Just don't spout old wives tales about 'not entitled to a refund' when a product is 'not as advertised'... it makes you sound like an idiot.

 

 

[Mr Heckler]

 

 

RE: Piracy comments

 

 

People who buy these games will ALWAYS do so.

 

People who pirate these games will ALWAYS do so.

 

Every copy protection program has been defeated within days of release. Keygens and cracked exe's will be available within 72hrs or so after a games release... often beforehand... especially if release dates vary from country to country.

 

Legitimate buyers are being put of by excessive DRM measures designed to be tackling piracy, when in fact they are encouraging it. Once people realise they can download games, be free from the DRM crap... but perhaps can't play online... they will, the casual gamer for GTA plays single player... I know I'm not bothered by the multiplayer aspect, I enjoy the game in single player and there are games I prefer for multiplayer.

 

So by including these excessive DRM measures, you are encouraging the casual gamers to commit copyright infringement (it's not theft, never has been and never will be and they can whine that it is until the cows come home). The lies they spout to try and support this argument get more and more ridiculous and I'm sure there's a marketing genius working for the DRM industry who's convincing software companies that every copy downloaded is a lost sale... It's not that simple, the casual gamer who downloads a game... probably wouldn't have bought it anyway. People have a finite amount of money to spend and the areas of entertainment and luxury they can spend it on is increasing; so the amount being spent in each area diminishes. It's simple market forces at work... The 'Pirate' who downloads the game, will ALWAYS download the game, so again there is no lost sale.

 

DRM exists to satisfy a tiny minority of executives that they are fixing and support a dying business model.

 

There are far better ways to do copy protection, code wheels, better encrypted serials, prompts through a game for codes printed in a manual. These might not fix the issue, but they will make it just as hard for 'pirates' as DRM and by doing it that way... YOU DON'T P*SS OFF YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS

 

If rockstar insist on using securom again (or anything else as restrictive and excessive as it), they lose me as a customer... It's not up for debate, I'm not interested in their argument to support it. I reject their stupid reality and mentality and substitute one based on logic, common sense and reason.

 

Codemasters included starforce on TOCA Race Driver 2 and possible Race Driver 3 amongst other games. RD 2 caused 2 of my DVDRW drives to fail as a direct result of this DRM and I will not tolerate any company dictating what goes on my system, nor will I allow them to dictate what other software I run on my system. I have never bought a codemasters game since, nor a game from any other manufacture that used starforce (Silent Hunter 3 springs to mind).

 

I buy my games based on my own set of principles, I don't follow blindly any trends or fashions like a sheep. I am an enlightened and intelligent individual and whilst my decisions may not have any impact on things alone... if there were more like me and fewer sheep... these companies would have to listen. It would be simple market forces at work.

 

So if you don't like the DRM crap, say so and refuse to buy it, choose to commit copyright infringement if you wish... But if you do nothing and complain, I'm gonna call you a dumb sh*t.

 

 

[sexmachine]

Instead of issuing anti-piracy protection on the DVD, developers should target to take down torrent sites. I'll bet that would dramatically decrease piracy in both PC and console games. Not to mention legal buyers wouldn't have to "jump through hoops" and install unnecessary software which will anally molest their PC.

there are thousands of those torrent warez sites not to mention that there are many private warez sites where you can only get into with an invite

 

and even if they would do that, there is still the usenet, filehosts

 

 

they should just give it up already they are not shafting anyone but their customers

 

put in a serial so that multiplayer is locked to pirates - and that should be it

[PestilenceJM]

Aimed at San Andreaser

 

For somewhone who speaks about logic, right and wrong, you certainly fail at grammar.

 

Since we are on the line of bashing things we don't like, I'd like to bash on you and tell you to go back to school and learn the English language.

You are totally off topic. Instead of trying to constructively critisize his post, you tell him that his grammar sucks?

English is my 3rd best language i speak. Maybe its his second or maybe even fourth language. Certainly its not his first.

English is an international language, you should still respect people who dont speak it so good.

I assume your first language is english... i wonder if you talk my first language (german) as good as i speak yours. And i wonder if you speak "San Andreaser's" language at all.

So dont insult anyone about it ... makes me angry.

 

On Topic:

I am not as dissappointed and (apparently) angry as you are. Because i enjoy the singleplayer at 25-35 (in interriors up to 55) fps (frames per second). I even had a hell of good time in the multiplayer, wich i can only play at 10-30 fps. So the graphics performance sucks.

BUT i have a good feeling, because the gameplay totally kicks ass, the world (New York remake) totally kicks ass, the physics engine totally kicks as, the cars kick ass and the story is a typical GTA-kickass-story wich is movielike (GTA Story plots remind of me of movies like Scarface).

So i am looking forward to play this game with good fps (all fluently like average of 40-50 fps, if possible, ofc more but not worth a gfx quality loss). And i know that i can wait, because all the other stuff i expect are also requiring me to wait (im looking foward to mods, official DLC, fully customizeable/scriptable multiplayermodes etc).

[San Andreaser]

But R* didn't give a sh*t, R* preferred to start its battle with pirates in one of the most popular titles ever, we all hate pirates of course, and know the losses they cause, but if what's the point of releasing non-playable game anyway, regardless that those pirates gonna unlock it sooner or later (They've done it btw)

Wrong. Piracy causes minimal losses. 90% of pirates never plan to buy the game anyway, so they cause a null loss. A company would never have made money from them.

 

It's not a horrendous port because they're trying to stop piracy. It's a horrendous port because they did a bad job and evidently did very basic testing. We now seem to be in "Sell now, patch later" culture which I thoroughly despise. Games are getting pricier, but the quality is getting worse. I don't care if they want to fix it later; it should be of the highest possible quality at the point of sale. It will kill gaming if the trend is not prevented from spiralling out of control.

 

 

One more thing, anyone noticed eurogamer and IGN reviews

They didn't mention anything about performance (IGN only said it needs high specs), none of them even noticed the AA issue, are they trustworthy anymore?

Or they just prepared the reviews long time ago to post it on Dec 12th 00:00?

 

Your thoughts?

I am of the belief that Rockstar is bribing them again.

If piracy doesn't reduce the sales that much, why they just don't release a game with anormal protection system

 

I agree with ur point about R* bribing gaming sites, that's very disappointing

[.:Alex:.]

If piracy doesn't reduce the sales that much, why they just don't release a game with anormal protection system

Well it's another worrying mentality: "Treat every customer like a criminal"; until they become one, that is. They're doing an EA in more way than I could have ever imagined possible (for them). I know they were extremely upset over the Xbox 360 leak, which is probably why they've implemented these measures.

 

I can't remember who mentioned it or what it was, but there is a game with no copy protection and instead the company offers DLC and other extras to legitimate customers. Ideally, companies should be focusing on rewarding legitimate consumers, rather than fighting a battle that can never be won and only harms their legal fanbase.

 

There's also the fact that copy-protection FAILS simply because of the obvious and alarmingly ignored fact that Pirates never even come across it! Silly Rockstar. They used to be smart.

[Ins1d3r]

the game runs grate on my pc.

Core2Quad 2.4

4 GB ram

GeForce 8800GTS 512 mb

 

no errors, no problems.

[Ronaldoz]

Iz easy.

U gonna pay, because they made a product u obviously like to play.

The stupid security in it is because of piracy. Actually i like Games for Windows Live.

DRM is another story, but i never had any errors. But is again of piracy.

So complainers better buy the game, instead crying out loud on forums and make things look horrible.

They still make products for pc and support it all well and try to find a solution.

Buying will bring better games, soo.. just stop downloading.

Gaming will be more fun!!

 

P.S. I haven't had any problem with gtaIV and never had any problems with DRM games or something else.

[Fisker]

But R* didn't give a sh*t, R* preferred to start its battle with pirates in one of the most popular titles ever, we all hate pirates of course, and know the losses they cause, but if what's the point of releasing non-playable game anyway, regardless that those pirates gonna unlock it sooner or later (They've done it btw)

Wrong. Piracy causes minimal losses. 90% of pirates never plan to buy the game anyway, so they cause a null loss. A company would never have made money from them.

 

It's not a horrendous port because they're trying to stop piracy. It's a horrendous port because they did a bad job and evidently did very basic testing. We now seem to be in "Sell now, patch later" culture which I thoroughly despise. Games are getting pricier, but the quality is getting worse. I don't care if they want to fix it later; it should be of the highest possible quality at the point of sale. It will kill gaming if the trend is not prevented from spiralling out of control.

 

 

One more thing, anyone noticed eurogamer and IGN reviews

They didn't mention anything about performance (IGN only said it needs high specs), none of them even noticed the AA issue, are they trustworthy anymore?

Or they just prepared the reviews long time ago to post it on Dec 12th 00:00?

 

Your thoughts?

I am of the belief that Rockstar is bribing them again.

If piracy doesn't reduce the sales that much, why they just don't release a game with anormal protection system

 

I agree with ur point about R* bribing gaming sites, that's very disappointing

Well in reality, the effects of piracy can't really be determined, there are a lot of factors involved, and unless we can be guaranteed that we have a the same conditions everytime a game i sold, then we can't use those numbers for anything.

 

There are some things that can be said though,

 

Copy-protections are useless, you may gain some customers if the protection takes some days to crack, but you may also lose customers because the protection scheme is hated by many.

 

The key is:

Ensuring that as many of your customers can run the game (Rockstar didn't do that)

Providing replayability which may prolong the life of the game, and replayability that is only available to customers (Rockstar does have multiplayer, but the Windows Live matchmaking system really does suck, question is if this will last in the future)

Patch support, and no not just patches to fix technical issues, patches that improve gameplay and make the game fun to return to. (I doubt Rockstar will be doing that, and no i don't mean DLC, that is probably a bit beyond the scope of a patch, more like a patch that perhaps introduces some new elements, like for example putting packages back, or making vigilante missions that eventually improve your character, and so on)

 

Stardock follows this principle, they do not copy-protect their games, they had a game here recently that for a LONG time were in the top-10 PC sales list, no copy-protection, only a cd-key check for multiplayer and patches, heck you could even get those patches as a pirate if you knew where to look, so basically a game competing against other well selling games like World of Warcraft, The Sims, etc. and still it didn't need a copy-protection to sell well. Support and trust in your customers is already a good step towards sales, and when you treat your customers like sh*t, well then you get treated like sh*t yourself.

 

And just for record, we've pretty much been shat on since GTA 3, granted the ports back then were atleast a lot more decent than this one, but it was still a port, basically with every 3D GTA game developed the developers have expressed their disgust in working with the Playstation 2, and then Playstation 3 consoles, they've on numerous occasions said that developing for the platform is tricky and not something they prefer.

 

One would think that if they feel shat on by Sony, why make the game for playstation to begin with? The Xbox 360 is popular with developers because Microsoft puts so much effort in their tools, they really DO provide developers with a great way to develop for their platform, it's so easy to develop for the Xbox 360 that you could make a port to or from the Xbox 360 within a DAY, of course it would still have to be finetuned for PC/Xbox 360, whichever way you decide to port, but the main point is that tools provided makes the port from Xbox 360<->PC so easy that you could probably hire monkey for it.

 

Well there is of course one compelling reason to stay on the Playstation platform, and that is of course the money they get, not only from Sony, but also the money they gain from the customers.

 

But that doesn't exactly shout out: "We love our pc-fanbase so much", rather it tells you a bit about how ignored the PC community has been since GTA3, and how it's only getting worse, but loyal as we are, we still put up with it and play it, because despite the flaws, it still turns out to be a decent game, but that trust must be slowly fading away, especially given we're basically considered thieves, which is funny considering that Xbox 360 piracy is basically a lot easier + unavaoidable, because unlike the PC where we pretty much sign our soul away when installing a game, Microsoft still have some conditions, and some of those conditions block out the possibility of any overzealous copy protection.

 

It's a shame Microsoft can't/won't do the same for the PC's.

 

TL;DR: Rockstar could instead of telling how much they love us, after having slept with Sony and Microsoft, try actually being a bit truthful, actually stick to their word a bit, perhaps even do some decisions based on the football field of sh*t they regularily spew, perhaps they could even start considering their most loyal fans as customers and treat them as such?

 

Bring me a GTA developed for the PC, and only then port it to the consoles, then we'll talk.

[themasher729]

I would like to know what goal R* set for their copy protect. Was it simply to stop the pirates from playing online or stop them from playing at all? I looked up the pirated version nfo and from press releases after seeing this post and read R* made the drunk cam come on constantly and other various things when trying to play a pirated version but that was also hacked within days. seems now that the only thing the pirated version can not do now is play online. and thats how it is for most pirated games (well sorta).

 

I'd have to say the pirates won in a R* vs. Pirates battle. But if you think about it how can they loose. for example lets say 5000 people helped to make the whole game (i have no idea how many just example) Now think about the number of people out there that can work and work until they crack it. That number could be in the hundreds of thousands.

 

also i noticed that the file that completely makes gta4 work for pirates is a 27kb file. so all that money they spent on protection was beaten but 27kb. That would chap my ace*. should they give up on copy protection no not completely just need to rethink their protection system and the goals they set for that protection

 

I agree with those that say simple protection is the best aka the cd key for online play. when i go places i like to take my games with me and i do not like having to carry and put the disc in to play. I dont know why for retail version companys continue to require me to put my disc in to play. you could say well thats the same as a console...well my laptop isnt a console i dont have to plug it into anything to play. you might say buy the digital copy. i believe unless its a steam version you have limited number of reinstalls and i format biweekly it seems sometime -dont worry why lol- so i need the retail copy.

 

I like the game play and it runs smoothly on both my machine well after some tweaks. guess i got lucky

 

To the question. " why should we pay the price?"

there is not reason why we SHOULD pay the price. the reason that we do pay the price is because the current system for copy protection are seriously flawed. They no longer follow the general design process. which includes asking the question how does this affect the consumer and in this situation should ask themselves is it as simple or more complicated for the consumer than current products.

 

I can understand getting lolled into a bad design happens very often but that the design process has feedback built into it. I have yet to find anyone that prefers a more complicated solution to a simple one.

[Drunk Russian 9]

Instead of issuing anti-piracy protection on the DVD, developers should target to take down torrent sites. I'll bet that would dramatically decrease piracy in both PC and console games. Not to mention legal buyers wouldn't have to "jump through hoops" and install unnecessary software which will anally molest their PC.

there are thousands of those torrent warez sites not to mention that there are many private warez sites where you can only get into with an invite

 

and even if they would do that, there is still the usenet, filehosts

 

 

they should just give it up already they are not shafting anyone but their customers

 

put in a serial so that multiplayer is locked to pirates - and that should be it

1000 sites that are easily found and shut down. It's not that hard. As long as they don't sue them, but threaten to, the numbers of pirates will decrease dramatically. And only a small percentage uses private sites, usenet and filehosts. In doing this over 80% of piracy would instantly diminish, cracks would be harder to come by, and people would realize it is alot easier to buy the games. Not to mention this in no way affects consumers.

[Misc985]

 

Instead of issuing anti-piracy protection on the DVD, developers should target to take down torrent sites. I'll bet that would dramatically decrease piracy in both PC and console games. Not to mention legal buyers wouldn't have to "jump through hoops" and install unnecessary software which will anally molest their PC.

there are thousands of those torrent warez sites not to mention that there are many private warez sites where you can only get into with an invite

 

and even if they would do that, there is still the usenet, filehosts

 

 

they should just give it up already they are not shafting anyone but their customers

 

put in a serial so that multiplayer is locked to pirates - and that should be it

1000 sites that are easily found and shut down. It's not that hard. As long as they don't sue them, but threaten to, the numbers of pirates will decrease dramatically. And only a small percentage uses private sites, usenet and filehosts. In doing this over 80% of piracy would instantly diminish, cracks would be harder to come by, and people would realize it is alot easier to buy the games. Not to mention this in no way affects consumers.

 

 

In case you are unaware, they've tried to take them down, repeatedly, specifically the great bastion of software piracy known as The Pirate Bay. They've failed every time. It turns out that being based in totally separate countries means that Laws that apply in, say, America, don't apply in Sweden or Russia. Moreover, most of the world outside of Western Europe, North America, Japan, and Australia seems to have a pretty "meh" view on the subject. Threatening them might have worked at one point, before Pirate Bay told them to go f*ck themselves and got away with it more than once thus setting an example that everyone on the internet who isn't hiding under a rock knows about.

 

Of course, this is all ignoring the fact that the piracy is in fact irrelevant in the first place and attempting to shut down major torrent trackers is just a monumental waste of time and money. I have a conspiracy theory (HEH) that the various industries that keep bitching about piracy don't actually care about it at all and just use it for "poor me" PR which the sheep eat right up and continue to buy their absolute crap as we can see on this very forum.

 

So, no, it's not "easy". If it were "easy", it would already be done. Different nations and draconian attempts at copy-right protection that border or outright infringe on consumers make things very not easy.

[medfreak]

 

Instead of issuing anti-piracy protection on the DVD, developers should target to take down torrent sites. I'll bet that would dramatically decrease piracy in both PC and console games. Not to mention legal buyers wouldn't have to "jump through hoops" and install unnecessary software which will anally molest their PC.

there are thousands of those torrent warez sites not to mention that there are many private warez sites where you can only get into with an invite

 

and even if they would do that, there is still the usenet, filehosts

 

 

they should just give it up already they are not shafting anyone but their customers

 

put in a serial so that multiplayer is locked to pirates - and that should be it

1000 sites that are easily found and shut down. It's not that hard. As long as they don't sue them, but threaten to, the numbers of pirates will decrease dramatically. And only a small percentage uses private sites, usenet and filehosts. In doing this over 80% of piracy would instantly diminish, cracks would be harder to come by, and people would realize it is alot easier to buy the games. Not to mention this in no way affects consumers.

Are you serious? Do you think the RIAA or the MPAA did not do that already? Do you think Game publishers would not do everything in their power to do that if it was that simple? You seem to forget that Piracy on the internet is not localized to one country, it is all over the planet. It just takes one third world country to setup a torrent tracker, with no laws against anti-piracy and you will find yourself just where you were before you went on the ghost hunt.

 

Piracy existed long before torrent websites, and it will continue to exist long after.

[Drunk Russian 9]

 

Are you serious? Do you think the RIAA or the MPAA did not do that already? Do you think Game publishers would not do everything in their power to do that if it was that simple? You seem to forget that Piracy on the internet is not localized to one country, it is all over the planet. It just takes one third world country to setup a torrent tracker, with no laws against anti-piracy and you will find yourself just where you were before you went on the ghost hunt.

 

Piracy existed long before torrent websites, and it will continue to exist long after.

The way I see it, theft is illegal everywhere. However, I see your point.

 

I'm so fed up copyright protection. I can't stand it. I threw that out there . . . I hadn't really though about it.

[themasher729]

I guess they are all pirates but i think the term is being used too loosely to describe their system.

 

there is The Scene and then there is public pirates which includes sites that you have to get a login to use.

 

to be in The Scene you have to have some useful skill and members of the scene hate non scene pirates. that is people that get scene files somehow and distribute them publicly. for the most part people that actually crack things and release to the scene, they would rather their files never went public. they just want to compete against other scene members to see who is the fastest/best. All of their files going public is a side affect that they dont even link. most prolly havent but if you have read many nfo files they a lot of the time tell you to go buy whatever it is if you like it.

 

i would venture to say that some Scene member work for dev company i mean if they are that good at coding,cracking, reverse engineering they prolly have a job that they code at.

 

The Scene doesnt even like that we know about them.

 

this would never happen but maybe the scene should be put on the payroll to find that there protection is crap and find a way to stop the leak from The Scene to the public. b/c both The Scene and Game makers do not those cracks/files going public its the "pirates" that want them public "pirates" just want everything to be free... hmm hippies?

[Shof]

I guess they are all pirates but i think the term is being used too loosely to describe their system.

 

there is The Scene and then there is public pirates which includes sites that you have to get a login to use.

 

to be in The Scene you have to have some useful skill and members of the scene hate non scene pirates. that is people that get scene files somehow and distribute them publicly. for the most part people that actually crack things and release to the scene, they would rather their files never went public. they just want to compete against other scene members to see who is the fastest/best. All of their files going public is a side affect that they dont even link. most prolly havent but if you have read many nfo files they a lot of the time tell you to go buy whatever it is if you like it.

 

i would venture to say that some Scene member work for dev company i mean if they are that good at coding,cracking, reverse engineering they prolly have a job that they code at.

 

The Scene doesnt even like that we know about them.

 

this would never happen but maybe the scene should be put on the payroll to find that there protection is crap and find a way to stop the leak from The Scene to the public. b/c both The Scene and Game makers do not those cracks/files going public its the "pirates" that want them public "pirates" just want everything to be free... hmm hippies?

While i am a member at various sites whom i cant say their names to i do notice interesting trend:

Cracks produced by the scene always works without a problems. Cracks by wanna been scene people (like those rip off other scene stuff) tend to have the nasty non working cracks. While the scene might have a few bad cracks, there is another another group to update it and making work. With that said, since alot of people like to spread things around all of the world onto public trackers, it is really hard to find out who the mastermind is

[medfreak]

 

Are you serious? Do you think the RIAA or the MPAA did not do that already? Do you think Game publishers would not do everything in their power to do that if it was that simple? You seem to forget that Piracy on the internet is not localized to one country, it is all over the planet. It just takes one third world country to setup a torrent tracker, with no laws against anti-piracy and you will find yourself just where you were before you went on the ghost hunt.

 

Piracy existed long before torrent websites, and it will continue to exist long after.

The way I see it, theft is illegal everywhere. However, I see your point.

 

I'm so fed up copyright protection. I can't stand it. I threw that out there . . . I hadn't really though about it.

Definition of theft:

 

In criminal law, theft (also known as stealing or filching) is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. As a term, it is used as shorthand for all major crimes against property, encompassing offences such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, mugging, trespassing, shoplifting, intrusion, fraud (theft by deception) and sometimes criminal conversion. In some jurisdictions, theft is considered to be synonymous with larceny; in others, theft has replaced larceny.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft

 

Piracy is not theft. It is copyright infringement. You do not take another person's property, you copy the creative product of that person. There is a huge difference between the two terms. Of course that does not make it any better, but that does make Copyright infringement not illegal "everywhere", and poorly fought in a large portion of the world.

 

I do understand your frustration with copyright protection, DRM. But going on a witch hunt is not going to solve the problem, nor are draconian measures in game activation and whatnot. The best way to fight piracy in my opinion is to go on a price war with pirates, and try to keep some features exclusive to the original game such as multiplayer.

Edited December 7, 2008 by medfreak

[JBFord4x4]

I find it hilarious that what is happening with the crack (drunk driving and auto acceleration) is happening.

[Vicetopia]

I find it hilarious that what is happening with the crack (drunk driving and auto acceleration) is happening.

It's been long since fixed.

[JBFord4x4]

I find it hilarious that what is happening with the crack (drunk driving and auto acceleration) is happening.

It's been long since fixed.

Lame.

[American-X]

While there may be some problems...I still think it's worth every penny of $50.00. I have no problem paying for a game with the potential this one has. A week or two and the problems will be ironed and they will have fixes for all or at least most of the little quirks. I think the idea was to release it in time for the Christmas rush. Who pirates nowadays anyway? It so much easier to pay for the game. You don't have to worry about getting a virus while attempting to score or crack the game. Plus it pays them for their hard work and time they put into the development and allows them to release another in the next cpl years which I am all for. You have to admit, the game looks phenomenal. I'm running it on a quad core with two gtx 280's, 32" HD monitor, 8 gigs of RAM, xp64, & a 780i motherboard and it runs like it does on my bro's PS3, which is pretty damn good. I personally think it looks a lot better running on my system, my bro disagrees but then again what does he know anyway. I think the engine behind the game performs rather well considering everything that is going on within. I mean come on people, Blizzard/Activision is makin' more off Warcraft then R* could possibly make off GTAIV and that game looks like freakin' Super Nintendo compared to this. I'd like to see some expansions for this one possibly in the future at some point. My only real gripe at the moment was lack of support for sli, which hopefully in the next patch or two will be addressed.

[JBFord4x4]

While there may be some problems...I still think it's worth every penny of $50.00. I have no problem paying for a game with the potential this one has. A week or two and the problems will be ironed and they will have fixes for all or at least most of the little quirks. I think the idea was to release it in time for the Christmas rush. Who pirates nowadays anyway? It so much easier to pay for the game. You don't have to worry about getting a virus while attempting to score or crack the game. Plus it pays them for their hard work and time they put into the development and allows them to release another in the next cpl years which I am all for. You have to admit, the game looks phenomenal. I'm running it on a quad core with two gtx 280's, 32" HD monitor, 8 gigs of RAM, xp64, & a 780i motherboard and it runs like it does on my bro's PS3, which is pretty damn good. I personally think it looks a lot better running on my system, my bro disagrees but then again what does he know anyway. I think the engine behind the game performs rather well considering everything that is going on within. I mean come on people, Blizzard/Activision is makin' more off Warcraft then R* could possibly make off GTAIV and that game looks like freakin' Super Nintendo compared to this. I'd like to see some expansions for this one possibly in the future at some point. My only real gripe at the moment was lack of support for sli, which hopefully in the next patch or two will be addressed.

Yep. Even at 20 fps, which I should get better than with my new Pc, it was still worth every penny. Amazing game.

[Vicetopia]

While there may be some problems...I still think it's worth every penny of $50.00. I have no problem paying for a game with the potential this one has. A week or two and the problems will be ironed and they will have fixes for all or at least most of the little quirks. I think the idea was to release it in time for the Christmas rush. Who pirates nowadays anyway? It so much easier to pay for the game. You don't have to worry about getting a virus while attempting to score or crack the game. Plus it pays them for their hard work and time they put into the development and allows them to release another in the next cpl years which I am all for. You have to admit, the game looks phenomenal. I'm running it on a quad core with two gtx 280's, 32" HD monitor, 8 gigs of RAM, xp64, & a 780i motherboard and it runs like it does on my bro's PS3, which is pretty damn good. I personally think it looks a lot better running on my system, my bro disagrees but then again what does he know anyway. I think the engine behind the game performs rather well considering everything that is going on within. I mean come on people, Blizzard/Activision is makin' more off Warcraft then R* could possibly make off GTAIV and that game looks like freakin' Super Nintendo compared to this. I'd like to see some expansions for this one possibly in the future at some point. My only real gripe at the moment was lack of support for sli, which hopefully in the next patch or two will be addressed.

Well first of all, I'd say more people are pirating today due to the deteriorating quality of PC ports.

Now more than ever there are better reasons to pirate. The games keep getting worse, so there's less incentive to pay for them.

 

Secondly, you're only assuming R* is going to iron out the bugs.

What needs to be fixed the most is the game's performance, which may or may not be fixed by their "memory optimizations" in the patch.

 

And finally, the game doesn't support SLi, so only one of your GTX 280's is actually doing any work.

 

But I do agree the game looks good.