R* vs. Pirates; why should we pay the price?

[FanatiKOr]

Rokz0r u seem to be a real gangsta

[Drag_Drift]

 

Artifacts are actually out of place pixels, random spotty colors and graphic distortion etc, not actual game bugs like missing textures, popping in and out building and shadows. Artifacts look something like this http://forums.techguy.org/windows-vista/54...-artifacts.html,  Usually caused by bad drivers/incompatible or overclocked graphics card and sometimes ram.

 

So you do know what artifacts are. They could also show as rendering bugs ingame.

 

 

Heh i bash gtaIV and say that it's sh*t? when? where? please link me to a previous post i made that says the game is sh*t...

 

 

I didn't say you. I was reflecting on the whole of the IVums. Take a look at the first page. Every other topic is about a bug or performance problem, and saying it's the worst or something.

 

 

What do you mean by "these games had workarounds"? firstly one of the games you said you have problems with assasins creed...this is the actual release notes for the patch and i dont see anything saying for it to run more smoothly, do you?*

Fixed a rare crash while riding the horse in Kingdom

* Fixed a corruption of Altair’s robe on certain graphics hardware

* Cursor is now centered when accessing the Map

* Fixed a few problems with Alt-Tab

* Fixed a graphical bug in the final fight

* Fixed a few graphical problems with dead bodies

* Fixed pixellation with post-FX enabled on certain graphics hardware

* Fixed a small bug in the DNA Menu that would cause the image to disappear if the arrow was clicked rapidly

* Fixed some graphical corruption in Present Room with low Level Of Detail

* Character input is now cancelled if the controller is unplugged while moving

* Added support for x64 versions of Windows

* Fixed broken post-effects on DirectX 10.1 enabled cards

 

 

And a patch only works for the FPS to run smoothly? And I suppose you thought I only meant the FPS issues in GTAIV? Patches also FIX bugs in the game, therefore agreeing to what I said.

 

 

 

Oh btw there is NO  patch for Crysis warhead...

 

I had installed a patch for Crysis Warhead regarding it's conjuction with Crysis Wars.

 

 

Not personal attacks buddy just think before you post utter nonsense.

 

And I just post utter nonsense? Dude, I've been trying my best to keep people's hopes up for the upcoming patch, and you contradict every little thing that I post? Just take the anger out of your posts. I'm not here to fight.

[Rokz0r]

Do you purposely miscomprehend?

[Drag_Drift]

Do you purposely miscomprehend?

Do you purposely contradict yourself? Or do you purposely flame and insult? I've been trying to have a reasonable discussion with you, boy. And I'd be happy if you just point out my mistakes in a normal, polite way.

 

I don't know why, but you're specifically angry at me.

 

Reported.

[NecroViolator]

What I think really sucks is with Bloom at night you shine your headlights on a Ped (white guy/gall) and they LIGHT UP like a Christmas Tree...

[FanatiKOr]

Funny for me graphic is very good at night but when the sun shines in the evening im looking forward to the night because my eyes are bleeding

[Drag_Drift]

Funny for me graphic is very good at night but when the sun shines in the evening im looking forward to the night because my eyes are bleeding

IMO it looks better at night, because you don't see the overly pixelated shadows.

[Rokz0r]

Do you purposely miscomprehend?

Do you purposely contradict yourself? Or do you purposely flame and insult? I've been trying to have a reasonable discussion with you, boy. And I'd be happy if you just point out my mistakes in a normal, polite way.

 

I don't know why, but you're specifically angry at me.

 

Reported.

What are you trying to achieve? Report me then/ trying to use "scare tactics" to shoo me away? I have provided you with PROOF and links and even explained to you in detail but you still tell me that i am contradicting myself, turn it on me and "try" and make me look like the one flamebaiting? Please next time you try and undermine do it to a BOY so you can get away with it, I'm not a boy,my son.

 

 

[t047]

Why should we wait for R* to make a patch, shouldnt the game be pretty well made at the release date? Gamers shouldnt have to wait an extra couple of weeks, months after buying the product to play it. After all they did take their time in making this game.

 

It seems kinda sad that R* describe the release as "the platform it was birthed on" yet fail to give it the respect it deserves. Waiting 6 months for a game released on console already is bearable, but waiting for a game that is shoddy is ridiculous. Even bethesda makes better ports from console, and GTA SA was a much better port than this version. Not only that but its full of bloatware which frankly no-one would like. And its not just a couple of whiners bitching about, its much, much more than that- almost on every gaming forum there are numerous posts mentioning how bad it is-and no, i cant be bothered to post on all those forums.

 

Perhaps R* were just programming some more for the 360 for its DLC rather than allowing many of us PC gamers to enjoy a decent game.

Edited December 6, 2008 by t047

[Drag_Drift]

What are you trying to achieve? Report me then/ trying to use "scare tactics" to shoo me away? I have provided you with PROOF and links and even explained to you in detail but you still tell me that i am contradicting myself, turn it on me and "try" and make me look like the one flamebaiting? Please next time you try and undermine do it to a BOY so you can get away with it, I'm not a boy,my son.

What are YOU trying to achieve? Pointing out my mistakes in an angered tone isn't really going to help the discussion you know. And I don't use the 'Report Post' button to scare.

 

Also.

I'm not a boy,my son.

If you said that a little earlier I would've respected you and agreed to what you said, but what you just stated in your posts, That isn't a 'mature' way to discuss, isn't it.

[gta4freakk]

Hey guys let's not get off topic here OK?

[medfreak]

 

I honestly hope you're game starts crashing...then we'll see what kind of post you will be typing. You're "Almost all games that come out are either chock-full of bugs and artifacts and performance issues" comment is the funniest thing i have read for a long time please you should be a stand up comedian. Can i ask you a question? Do you turn your computer on all by yourself?

Am I not correct?

 

Can you state games that don't have bugs, artifacts or wrongdoings in them and never needed a patch?

 

I can't. Because it's impossible to have a game that perfect, because the devs don't have the ability to test it in all types of systems out today?

 

Also, make sense when you next post.

The fault in your ridiculous argument is that you approach this issue in a qualitative not quantitative fashion. Of course no game ever was perfect. Nothing on earth is. Not even Human DNA nor the US constitution. Additionally, games that don't receive patches are also not perfect. If that's the case then are we to assume that every PS one and PS 2 game out there was perfect? I never saw those games receiving patches.

 

The problem is with the STAGGERING intrusive obnoxious quantity of disasters in the game that is GTA IV PC. From the countless of failures in the simple installation and activation schemes, to the horrendous code that makes any CPU a hogwash, to the predominant failures on the moderate PCs. This game was release on hardware that is almost 3 years old now. There is no reason at all for such a game to fail at running at very mediocre PCs of today. After all, the minimum requirements in this failure of a port were top of the line during the release of the Xbox 360. Hell, there wasn't even DX 10 cards released yet back then. It is a simple case of lazy programmers that didn't even care to port the game properly to utilize the PC environment, and apparently simply left the code running as though the PCs are emulating an Xbox 360. As a result you see a game stressing Quad cores inappropriately and failing to even moderately stress mediocre GPUs like an 8600 GT.

 

I can't think of a worse mainstream game ported to the PC this year than this. Fallout 3, Far Cry 2 , Mass Effect even Devil May Cry 4 ran on PCs like a dream on what seems to be the minimum requirements of GTA IV.

 

It's one huge failure of a port, on the proportion of Resident Evil 4 from Capcom, if not worse.

[.:Alex:.]

 

But R* didn't give a sh*t, R* preferred to start its battle with pirates in one of the most popular titles ever, we all hate pirates of course, and know the losses they cause, but if what's the point of releasing non-playable game anyway, regardless that those pirates gonna unlock it sooner or later (They've done it btw)

Wrong. Piracy causes minimal losses. 90% of pirates never plan to buy the game anyway, so they cause a null loss. A company would never have made money from them.

 

It's not a horrendous port because they're trying to stop piracy. It's a horrendous port because they did a bad job and evidently did very basic testing. We now seem to be in "Sell now, patch later" culture which I thoroughly despise. Games are getting pricier, but the quality is getting worse. I don't care if they want to fix it later; it should be of the highest possible quality at the point of sale. It will kill gaming if the trend is not prevented from spiralling out of control.

 

 

One more thing, anyone noticed eurogamer and IGN reviews

They didn't mention anything about performance (IGN only said it needs high specs), none of them even noticed the AA issue, are they trustworthy anymore?

Or they just prepared the reviews long time ago to post it on Dec 12th 00:00?

 

Your thoughts?

I am of the belief that Rockstar is bribing them again.

Edited December 6, 2008 by .:Alex:.

[Smiler-Online]

I have to say... I get annoyed by the devs blaming piracy for their low sales...

 

 

I personally dont buy that many games anymore because the simple fact that games are becoming sh*t!!

 

I have *not* seen any decent games for at least 18 months!!

 

 

they had better fix this problem or else no one would even think about pirating a game, let alone buying it...

[Rokz0r]

I have to say... I get annoyed by the devs blaming piracy for their low sales...

 

 

I personally dont buy that many games anymore because the simple fact that games are becoming sh*t!!

 

I have *not* seen any decent games for at least 18 months!!

 

 

they had better fix this problem or else no one would even think about pirating a game, let alone buying it...

Yeah i feel ya man, new games are very dumbed down these days to cater for the zombie console crowd - bring on Deus ex 3 or system shock 3 and don't dumb it down for the console crowd and i will die a happy man.

Only 2 games that i really enjoyed past year or so was dead space and fallout 3.

[NecroViolator]

I have to say... I get annoyed by the devs blaming piracy for their low sales...

 

 

I personally dont buy that many games anymore because the simple fact that games are becoming sh*t!!

 

I have *not* seen any decent games for at least 18 months!!

 

 

they had better fix this problem or else no one would even think about pirating a game, let alone buying it...

+1

 

Clean and simple bud, straight to the point... Agree...

[ObsessedWithGTA4]

Why the f*ck does everyone bitch about the DRM and securerom? I don't understand what the big deal is about installing a game, putting the serial in, going online and activating it, and having to keep the dvd in a drive when you want to play?

 

JUST BUY RETAIL and you don't have to worry about all this DRM and activation, and this digital download bullsh*t which by the way is all corrupt anyway and its not like you save any money buying Digital Download. Then, when you go to a friends house, load up your steam account on their PC and go to install GTA IV it says you cant activate cause the MB and PROC don't match the first activation.

 

You can install the retail copy on as many PC's you want and activate however you need the DVD to play and you cannot use online with the same serial at the same time.

 

Plus you get the cool packaging, map, poster, and DVD's!

[Smiler-Online]

Why the f*ck does everyone bitch about the DRM and securerom? I don't understand what the big deal is about installing a game, putting the serial in, going online and activating it, and having to keep the dvd in a drive when you want to play?

 

JUST BUY RETAIL and you don't have to worry about all this DRM and activation, and this digital download bullsh*t which by the way is all corrupt anyway and its not like you save any money buying Digital Download. Then, when you go to a friends house, load up your steam account on their PC and go to install GTA IV it says you cant activate cause the MB and PROC don't match the first activation.

 

You can install the retail copy on as many PC's you want and activate however you need the DVD to play and you cannot use online with the same serial at the same time.

 

Plus you get the cool packaging, map, poster, and DVD's!

I aint bitching about DRM, I'm bitching about devs blaming piracy!

[SLAYERMAGGOT]

Rockstar Games let us wait for months, so and what we get?

A really bad buggy PC port of the most excepted game in the year 2008

They spend to much time in this f*cking DVD-Protection

It's not worth to buy this game for PC, since you don't have a Hypermegafast PC

They should release a goddamn patch soon as possible!

When i don't see that this game run on normal PC's, then i pay no money for this crap

[seven macaw]

Why the f*ck does everyone bitch about the DRM and securerom? I don't understand what the big deal is about installing a game, putting the serial in, going online and activating it, and having to keep the dvd in a drive when you want to play?

 

JUST BUY RETAIL and you don't have to worry about all this DRM and activation, and this digital download bullsh*t which by the way is all corrupt anyway and its not like you save any money buying Digital Download. Then, when you go to a friends house, load up your steam account on their PC and go to install GTA IV it says you cant activate cause the MB and PROC don't match the first activation.

 

You can install the retail copy on as many PC's you want and activate however you need the DVD to play and you cannot use online with the same serial at the same time.

 

Plus you get the cool packaging, map, poster, and DVD's!

A few things I figured I ought to point out...

 

1) People bitch about DRM & SecuRom because it regularly interferes with various system functions, and also adds an unnecessary amount of troubleshooting. Allow me to put in perspective: how would you feel if all your CD / DVD drives stopped working after you installed GTAIV?

 

2) Retail versions include DRM - it's not confined to digital downloads. That's the problem. Paying customers are forced to jump through hoops, while pirates just wait for fixed copies.

 

 

 

[One-time]

 

I have to say... I get annoyed by the devs blaming piracy for their low sales...

 

I personally dont buy that many games anymore because the simple fact that games are becoming sh*t!!

 

I have *not* seen any decent games for at least 18 months!!

+1, I have to agree with you.

Most games released in the past two years were very sh*tty. Every single game you can see is all about graphic, tech demo, or poorly coded console port. Seems like games will stay like this for the next 10 years, there's no way we can go back to the old good days of 2001-2004.

 

Sorry for a bit offtopic.

[flyer2359]

I have to say... I get annoyed by the devs blaming piracy for their low sales...

 

I personally dont buy that many games anymore because the simple fact that games are becoming sh*t!!

 

I have *not* seen any decent games for at least 18 months!!

+1, I have to agree with you.

Most games released in the past two years were very sh*tty. Every single game you can see is all about graphic, tech demo, or poorly coded console port. Seems like games will stay like this for the next 10 years, there's no way we can go back to the old good days of 2001-2004.

 

Sorry for a bit offtopic.

I agree it seems like game company's are slacking off but back on topic. Every PC game that get's released will end up being put on the internet somewhere sadly it's unpreventable.

[One-time]

Yea, like I said in an old thread somewhere, "No matter how hard the developers try to stop the piracy, those crackers will always find their way" because this is only a bunch of computer code applications that can't be perfect and can always be hacked.

[Anamon]

Sorry, I know you all love GTA, that's why we're all here after all, but you have to know when it's starting to become just "fanboyism". You have to stay objective and admit: Rockstar screwed the PC port up big time!

 

 

I have no probs with secure rom. I have no probs with the game. I only have problems with people like u complaining about every game in every forum.

 

Good for you that you don't have any problems, but other people do, and you are in no position to make them shut up about it.

 

About the returning games thing: Steam and German Media Markt are offering their customers to return the game and get their money back. This is something they normally do not allow, under any circumstances. This alone should give you an idea how bad the game is received.

 

 

Now you just receive a game that didn't reach your expectations and you turn your backs on them and accuse them of being untrustworthy?

 

Why should we not be allowed to complain about a game because previous game were good? It doesn't make any sense. GTA IV for PC is a disaster, other titles don't change anything about that. If anything, it should make you even angrier, because you know that R* would be able to pull it off, but they obviously just don't give a sh*t anymore.

 

 

Have you guys ever thought that it's impossible to test it on all kinds of systems?

 

How about testing it on at least some systems? It is reported that GTA IV runs on almost none of the systems with ATI graphics cards. That is probably about 50% of all PCs. German magazine GameStar made a poll among GTA IV PC buyers: 4% reported that they had no problems, while 75% said that they had heavy problems that make the game unplayable, or couldn't play it at all. Excuse me for being pissed at the fact taht R* spent $200,000 on a DRM system (and even being proud about it!) that is cracked 3 days after release, but didn't have any money to test the game on 2 or 3 ATI cards.

 

I'm with medfreak on this: of course no game is ever really perfect for all systems, especially directly after release. But here we're talking about a case where a game does not run on a major percentage of all systems. That should not happen. And the fact that it never happened this badly before shows that it is not an unsolvable problem.

 

 

And I didn't even get started about the whole DRM and activation and registration horsecrap. Look at how fast those $200,000 spent on SecuROM went bye-bye. And think about how many problems could have been avoided if that money was spent on development and testing instead.

 

 

Why the f*ck does everyone bitch about the DRM and securerom? I don't understand what the big deal is about installing a game, putting the serial in, going online and activating it, and having to keep the dvd in a drive when you want to play?

 

The big deal is this: You did not buy the game when you bought the retail, you only bought a temporary license to use it, at the publisher's discretion. You depend completely on Take 2's goodwill to let you play the game. Type in some URLs from a 5 year old game manual and look how many still work. Now imagine what happens to all your current game's online activation servers in another 5 years. Chances are 90% of your retail games will be expensive, shiny coasters because there is no way to install them anymore. There has not been a public outcry yet because online activation is a relatively new phenomenon for games and people were not yet directly affected by it. But soon, the first games will stop working because publishers went out of business or just don't give a sh*t anymore. And then we'll talk again.

 

I had hoped that at least after Mass Effect and Bioshock, the publishers would have learned their lesson: that everything gets cracked, and that the only ones that get punished by DRM are the loyal buyers, because they are the only ones who do not get a copy that is guaranteed to work. With DRM, the publishers lower the value of retail games and in turn raise the value of pirated games. Any game with online activation is probably worth more pirated than bought. And then they're wondering why people don't buy the games! It's basic economics: if you want people to buy your product, you have to offer them something in return. Instead, publishers are currently "fighting piracy" by lowering the value of the legal product more and more.

 

But at least this time it will be different: R* won't be blaming the bad sales of GTA IV for Windows on piracy. After all, they have this $200,000 copy protection that cannot be cracked, right?

[strojio]

Aimed at San Andreaser

 

For somewhone who speaks about logic, right and wrong, you certainly fail at grammar.

 

Since we are on the line of bashing things we don't like, I'd like to bash on you and tell you to go back to school and learn the English language.

Ooooh, burn!

 

yew iz a witty/

[One-time]

Lol, Anamon, you have just pwned 3 people.

[gta4freakk]

Sorry, I know you all love GTA, that's why we're all here after all, but you have to know when it's starting to become just "fanboyism". You have to stay objective and admit: Rockstar screwed the PC port up big time!

 

 

I have no probs with secure rom. I have no probs with the game. I only have problems with people like u complaining about every game in every forum.

 

Good for you that you don't have any problems, but other people do, and you are in no position to make them shut up about it.

 

About the returning games thing: Steam and German Media Markt are offering their customers to return the game and get their money back. This is something they normally do not allow, under any circumstances. This alone should give you an idea how bad the game is received.

 

 

Now you just receive a game that didn't reach your expectations and you turn your backs on them and accuse them of being untrustworthy?

 

Why should we not be allowed to complain about a game because previous game were good? It doesn't make any sense. GTA IV for PC is a disaster, other titles don't change anything about that. If anything, it should make you even angrier, because you know that R* would be able to pull it off, but they obviously just don't give a sh*t anymore.

 

 

Have you guys ever thought that it's impossible to test it on all kinds of systems?

 

How about testing it on at least some systems? It is reported that GTA IV runs on almost none of the systems with ATI graphics cards. That is probably about 50% of all PCs. German magazine GameStar made a poll among GTA IV PC buyers: 4% reported that they had no problems, while 75% said that they had heavy problems that make the game unplayable, or couldn't play it at all. Excuse me for being pissed at the fact taht R* spent $200,000 on a DRM system (and even being proud about it!) that is cracked 3 days after release, but didn't have any money to test the game on 2 or 3 ATI cards.

 

I'm with medfreak on this: of course no game is ever really perfect for all systems, especially directly after release. But here we're talking about a case where a game does not run on a major percentage of all systems. That should not happen. And the fact that it never happened this badly before shows that it is not an unsolvable problem.

 

 

And I didn't even get started about the whole DRM and activation and registration horsecrap. Look at how fast those $200,000 spent on SecuROM went bye-bye. And think about how many problems could have been avoided if that money was spent on development and testing instead.

 

 

Why the f*ck does everyone bitch about the DRM and securerom? I don't understand what the big deal is about installing a game, putting the serial in, going online and activating it, and having to keep the dvd in a drive when you want to play?

 

The big deal is this: You did not buy the game when you bought the retail, you only bought a temporary license to use it, at the publisher's discretion. You depend completely on Take 2's goodwill to let you play the game. Type in some URLs from a 5 year old game manual and look how many still work. Now imagine what happens to all your current game's online activation servers in another 5 years. Chances are 90% of your retail games will be expensive, shiny coasters because there is no way to install them anymore. There has not been a public outcry yet because online activation is a relatively new phenomenon for games and people were not yet directly affected by it. But soon, the first games will stop working because publishers went out of business or just don't give a sh*t anymore. And then we'll talk again.

 

I had hoped that at least after Mass Effect and Bioshock, the publishers would have learned their lesson: that everything gets cracked, and that the only ones that get punished by DRM are the loyal buyers, because they are the only ones who do not get a copy that is guaranteed to work. With DRM, the publishers lower the value of retail games and in turn raise the value of pirated games. Any game with online activation is probably worth more pirated than bought. And then they're wondering why people don't buy the games! It's basic economics: if you want people to buy your product, you have to offer them something in return. Instead, publishers are currently "fighting piracy" by lowering the value of the legal product more and more.

 

But at least this time it will be different: R* won't be blaming the bad sales of GTA IV for Windows on piracy. After all, they have this $200,000 copy protection that cannot be cracked, right?

Triple kill!!!

[NecroViolator]

@Anamon

 

Your a GOD, that just spoke ...

 

Also what was promised ingame wasnt there, talking about all the options on the GFX side PC users were promised... ALSO Why the PC players are NOT allowed to turn Bloom the F off ???

That would give everyone a minimum of 20 FPS more...

[One-time]

At least IF we were given an option to turn off the HDR or Bloom and just use AAs instead.

[jas0nuk]

The big deal is this: You did not buy the game when you bought the retail, you only bought a temporary license to use it, at the publisher's discretion. You depend completely on Take 2's goodwill to let you play the game. Type in some URLs from a 5 year old game manual and look how many still work. Now imagine what happens to all your current game's online activation servers in another 5 years. Chances are 90% of your retail games will be expensive, shiny coasters because there is no way to install them anymore. There has not been a public outcry yet because online activation is a relatively new phenomenon for games and people were not yet directly affected by it. But soon, the first games will stop working because publishers went out of business or just don't give a sh*t anymore. And then we'll talk again.

 

I had hoped that at least after Mass Effect and Bioshock, the publishers would have learned their lesson: that everything gets cracked, and that the only ones that get punished by DRM are the loyal buyers, because they are the only ones who do not get a copy that is guaranteed to work. With DRM, the publishers lower the value of retail games and in turn raise the value of pirated games. Any game with online activation is probably worth more pirated than bought. And then they're wondering why people don't buy the games! It's basic economics: if you want people to buy your product, you have to offer them something in return. Instead, publishers are currently "fighting piracy" by lowering the value of the legal product more and more.

So true.

 

Every time I think about online activation, my first thought is that it will probably be totally unreliable in years to come when people want to install GTA IV on computers that the "High" graphics settings are supposed to be meant for. IRONIC RIGHT? Hahahaha.

 

I don't understand how publishers are still paying over-the-odds for sh*tty activation/protection systems like SecuROM, when they are generally cracked less than a week after release. Even the amazing custom protection in GTA IV, where the camera became shaky and the driving system was messed up if the crack was detected, was bypassed within 3 days. When will these companies learn that copy protection simply DOESN'T WORK, it just angers those who legally buy the game, and makes it more attractive to obtain a pirated copy which is guaranteed to work even when the activation servers are long gone.